Top 4 Race 19/20

Rafaeldagold

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Messages
1,820
Wolves & United in a fight for 5th. Not been a great season has it, I hope we can nick 5th but it’s 50/50 I think.
 

Rafaeldagold

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Messages
1,820
How do you make it 50-50 when reviewing the respective fixture schedules?
We’re 3 points behind still (game in hand I know, but still better to have points on the board) and fixture wise who knows how respective teams will play in this period, especially with such a prize on offer for Wolves of Champions League. It’ll be close I’m sure
 

#07

makes new threads with tweets in the OP
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
17,546
If United don't qualify for the European Cup next season it will come down to us refusing to sign Bruno Fernandes until the last possible second. We lost three times in January, to Burney, Liverpool and Arsenal. Had we signed Bruno at the same time as Liverpool signed Minamino its possible we don't lose any of those games, its probable we win at least one of them and its very possible we get five or six points from the three fixtures. Five points is the difference between United and Chelsea at the moment. If we fail to finish in the top four the reason will be clear.
 

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
3,774
If United don't qualify for the European Cup next season it will come down to us refusing to sign Bruno Fernandes until the last possible second. We lost three times in January, to Burney, Liverpool and Arsenal. Had we signed Bruno at the same time as Liverpool signed Minamino its possible we don't lose any of those games, its probable we win at least one of them and its very possible we get five or six points from the three fixtures. Five points is the difference between United and Chelsea at the moment. If we fail to finish in the top four the reason will be clear.
If we don't make 5th we will have ourselves to blame because there would be exactly 3 teams (Chelsea, Wolves and Leicester) ahead of us who didn't spend either. One of those teams we weakened when we took their best player. We can't be getting the excuses in early. There must be standards and we have to at least make top 5 in case of City's ban. I just can't imagine Wolves making CL ahead of us. They have one trick and that's adama, we have Fernandes, Pogba etc now and it's still in our hands

edit: and with us still being in Europa that's a 3rd lifeline for CL qualification. Between top 4, City's potential ban and the Europa league, we should absolutely make it
 
Last edited:

Rafaeldagold

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Messages
1,820
Why does everyone think Wolves fixtures are so difficult?

Arsenal- tough yes but not hard to see them winning that or at least a draw.

C Palace, Everton, Burnley- Can easily see them winning those.

Sheff U- They’ve had a good season but look woefully off pace since the restart

Chelsea- Yes possible loss here but it’s the last day & 5th May be sewn up by then or they’ll play out of their skins to get result they need.

Wolves are a very serious challenger for 5th & I’m shocked people think it’s a relatively easy shootout between us & them
 

RkkMan

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
296
Why does everyone think Wolves fixtures are so difficult?

Arsenal- tough yes but not hard to see them winning that or at least a draw.

C Palace, Everton, Burnley- Can easily see them winning those.

Sheff U- They’ve had a good season but look woefully off pace since the restart

Chelsea- Yes possible loss here but it’s the last day & 5th May be sewn up by then or they’ll play out of their skins to get result they need.

Wolves are a very serious challenger for 5th & I’m shocked people think it’s a relatively easy shootout between us & them
Crystal Palace and Ancelotti`s Everton are far from easy to beat I can see Utd dropping points to Palace BTW. Wolves will definitely drop points in at least one of those games and beating Chelsea at Stamford Bridge will far from easy as well. They have had a good season but since the restart they`ve relied purely on Adama as an impact sub to win them games you are overestimating them. For the record I think they will finish 5th and get CL via City`s ban but they won`t finish ahead of Utd.
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
37,897
Location
Canada
Why does everyone think Wolves fixtures are so difficult?

Arsenal- tough yes but not hard to see them winning that or at least a draw.

C Palace, Everton, Burnley- Can easily see them winning those.

Sheff U- They’ve had a good season but look woefully off pace since the restart

Chelsea- Yes possible loss here but it’s the last day & 5th May be sewn up by then or they’ll play out of their skins to get result they need.

Wolves are a very serious challenger for 5th & I’m shocked people think it’s a relatively easy shootout between us & them
They aren't that difficult, they're just more difficult than ours are and we already need to be almost perfect to get in realistically. Think we can afford to drop points in 1 game (draw) and win the rest. Wolves would need the same. Think theyll get 6th because we're too far off the pace from Leicester and Chelsea to pull both back, and realistically we're only going to catch Leicester up.
 

CM10

Full Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Messages
3,664
Chelsea's win against City seems to have really shifted perceptions. They've got a decent run of games now (until the last 2 against Liverpool and Wolves) but they've been just as inconsistent as us against the lesser sides. West Ham should be an easy win for them but I doubt the others will be formalities.

This might not be a popular opinion but I think Wolves are the strongest contenders right now. They look more resilient than Leicester and Chelsea to me, and they don't have to worry about any cup games either.
 

#07

makes new threads with tweets in the OP
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
17,546
If we don't make 5th we will have ourselves to blame because there would be exactly 3 teams (Chelsea, Wolves and Leicester) ahead of us who didn't spend either. One of those teams we weakened when we took their best player. We can't be getting the excuses in early. There must be standards and we have to at least make top 5 in case of City's ban. I just can't imagine Wolves making CL ahead of us. They have one trick and that's adama, we have Fernandes, Pogba etc now and it's still in our hands

edit: and with us still being in Europa that's a 3rd lifeline for CL qualification. Between top 4, City's potential ban and the Europa league, we should absolutely make it
Its not an excuse its an observation.

I am not saying woe to us that Pogba was out for most of the season or that Rashford did his back in when he was on the hottest streak of his career.

I'm saying that Bruno was available at the start of January, for pretty much what we paid for him, we dithered through a disastrous series of results rather than going for him from the off and during that time we dropped points we probably wouldn't have had the club just got the deal done early.

If we miss top four it will once again be due to the often bizarre way the club does its business in the transfer market. I'm sure some on here, and elsewhere, will blame Ole. However, it really will be the case that doing the Bruno deal earlier would've got us into the Champions League.
 

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
3,774
Its not an excuse its an observation.

I am not saying woe to us that Pogba was out for most of the season or that Rashford did his back in when he was on the hottest streak of his career.

I'm saying that Bruno was available at the start of January, for pretty much what we paid for him, we dithered through a disastrous series of results rather than going for him from the off and during that time we dropped points we probably wouldn't have had the club just got the deal done early.

If we miss top four it will once again be due to the often bizarre way the club does its business in the transfer market. I'm sure some on here, and elsewhere, will blame Ole. However, it really will be the case that doing the Bruno deal earlier would've got us into the Champions League.
IMO we should never have fallen to the depths we did in the first half of the season with or without Bruno but that's in the past and would rather not reopen that blame game. Top 5 may be enough to land CL qualification anyway. If not there's the Europa league. We have Bruno now so better late than never. Top 4 may be gone but CL qualification is still alive and we resumed the season on better or equal footing with Wolves and whoever we will be coming up against in the Europa league. If we fall short on those of course Ole will and should be held accountable (assuming city's ban is upheld and we still miss it). He can be forgiven for missing top 4 if we finish strong
 

UpWithRivers

Full Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
1,268
Is there much difference between fourth or 5th if City are banned? Obviously better fourth but if we get into Europe Id take 5 + a cup over fourth. Have to still go for it though and make sure we dont end up 6th or something ridiculous.
 

Edy2

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
207
I believe that Leicester will drop out of the top 4 and we will end up 4th.
I agree, they've been steadily falling away for months both sides of the lockdown. I'm confident we'll get 3rd or 4th.
 

abkmufc92

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 24, 2020
Messages
13
Can't see us getting top 4, we can't afford to drop any more points and no doubt we will. In the reverse fixtures we got a total of 8 points yet some people seem to think we have an easier set of fixtures left.

Our form has been better since Bruno come in but we have huge problems breaking down defensive teams and I can't see that changing much in the remaining fixtures. If these teams play like Norwich did then don't expect us to win many of the games we have left.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
6,450
Location
Canada
I know it's early to say but the break seems to have worked for chelsea and Wolves. Not just with the injured player returning but also with their momentum coming back. They were struggling before the break but now look fresh and pumping.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
1,782
Location
ATL
Last day could be massive if us and Wolves get closer to Leicester and Chelsea by then. Wolves play Chelsea and we play Leicester. On top of that it's my birthday so these cnuts better not ruin it :mad:
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
4,272
Can't see us getting top 4, we can't afford to drop any more points and no doubt we will. In the reverse fixtures we got a total of 8 points yet some people seem to think we have an easier set of fixtures left.

Our form has been better since Bruno come in but we have huge problems breaking down defensive teams and I can't see that changing much in the remaining fixtures. If these teams play like Norwich did then don't expect us to win many of the games we have left.
The difference is we will not play the team that played against Norwich. If we cannot break teams down with Martial, Rashford, Pogba, Bruno, Greenwood then there is bigger problems at the club.
 

BigDunc9

Full Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Messages
4,503
Location
Goodison Park
Supports
Everton
I fancy us to get a result against Leicester at home. Our play isn't easy on the eye at the moment but we are getting results under Ancelotti. I suspect we will be happy to sit deep and play on the counter to DCL and Richarlison which won't be what Rodgers will want. If we win we also have chance at 7th (Europa) so the team should be taking it serious.
 

abkmufc92

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 24, 2020
Messages
13
The difference is we will not play the team that played against Norwich. If we cannot break teams down with Martial, Rashford, Pogba, Bruno, Greenwood then there is bigger problems at the club.
Those players came on during the game and we still struggled to break them down and we had a man advantage.

If we carry on playing as slow as we do then we will always have problems breaking down defensive teams as we don't stretch them.

If the remaining teams just sit and defend then we will struggle against them, It won't make a difference what team we put out.
 

#07

makes new threads with tweets in the OP
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
17,546
IMO we should never have fallen to the depths we did in the first half of the season with or without Bruno but that's in the past and would rather not reopen that blame game. Top 5 may be enough to land CL qualification anyway. If not there's the Europa league. We have Bruno now so better late than never. Top 4 may be gone but CL qualification is still alive and we resumed the season on better or equal footing with Wolves and whoever we will be coming up against in the Europa league. If we fall short on those of course Ole will and should be held accountable (assuming city's ban is upheld and we still miss it). He can be forgiven for missing top 4 if we finish strong
I am surprised you can say that after seeing the cup tie at the weekend. Our second string is solidly mid-table. Once you take Bruno, Pogba, Martial etc out of the first XI the level drop is massive. Aspiring to compete with Champions League level teams while relying on the some of the names that started at the weekend is wildly optimistic.

I don't mean to be harsh on our squad but the first XI is like a new coat of paint on a dodgy car. Nicky Butt was starring as England's defensive midfielder at the 2002 World Cup, at the same time he couldn't get into the United first team. We had no room for Phil Neville, so he went off and became Everton's captain. We are miles off of that level of depth now. I'm not even going to talk about the days when Sir Alex could pick anyone from Scholes, Giggs, Carrick, Hargreaves, Fletcher or Anderson to play in the middle of the park. That's not just miles, that's light years off of what Ole can pick from.

Honestly, look at the teams around us and tell me with a straight face if Fred, McTominay, Pereira etc would get near their match day squads. The idea that we should have been doing much better without Bruno just goes against the evidence of what we've been watching for years. We needed Bruno at the start of January. Frankly, we needed Bruno at the start of the season.

You cant make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. We have been finishing outside of the top four more often than not since Sir Alex retired. If we wanted to bridge that gap we needed to buy in more quality. We failed to do so and therefore if we fail to reach what should be our level we have only ourselves to blame. For the sake of trying to save a bit of money the money men at the club will have blown millions in Champions League TV and advertising revenue. There's a lesson there that we should be learning but repeatedly ignore.
 

Havak

Pokemon master
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
6,552
Location
Salford, Manchester
Is that right? They are 19th at Home otherwise!
Yeah!

Although it is slightly off as they'd be on 29 points behind Man Utd (33) and Liverpool (41), but played a game more than Man City & Everton who would be 28. So, you could also take it as 5th if those two teams were ahead at half time in their next home fixture.

Obviously kind of a pointless stat but I still think it's somewhat interesting to look at.

Norwich absolutely capitulate in the second half of games this season, so I was thinking that was Ole's approach when we played them. Bringing on the big guns in the second half.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
4,272
Those players came on during the game and we still struggled to break them down and we had a man advantage.

If we carry on playing as slow as we do then we will always have problems breaking down defensive teams as we don't stretch them.

If the remaining teams just sit and defend then we will struggle against them, It won't make a difference what team we put out.
Okay, they came on at what minute? They had a man down in extra time not in normal time.

The reason they went a man down is because Bruno & Ighalo broke down their defence btw.

We won the game if I recall?

We scored and conceded yet another silly goal.
 

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
3,774
I am surprised you can say that after seeing the cup tie at the weekend. Our second string is solidly mid-table. Once you take Bruno, Pogba, Martial etc out of the first XI the level drop is massive. Aspiring to compete with Champions League level teams while relying on the some of the names that started at the weekend is wildly optimistic.

I don't mean to be harsh on our squad but the first XI is like a new coat of paint on a dodgy car. Nicky Butt was starring as England's defensive midfielder at the 2002 World Cup, at the same time he couldn't get into the United first team. We had no room for Phil Neville, so he went off and became Everton's captain. We are miles off of that level of depth now. I'm not even going to talk about the days when Sir Alex could pick anyone from Scholes, Giggs, Carrick, Hargreaves, Fletcher or Anderson to play in the middle of the park. That's not just miles, that's light years off of what Ole can pick from.

Honestly, look at the teams around us and tell me with a straight face if Fred, McTominay, Pereira etc would get near their match day squads. The idea that we should have been doing much better without Bruno just goes against the evidence of what we've been watching for years. We needed Bruno at the start of January. Frankly, we needed Bruno at the start of the season.

You cant make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. We have been finishing outside of the top four more often than not since Sir Alex retired. If we wanted to bridge that gap we needed to buy in more quality. We failed to do so and therefore if we fail to reach what should be our level we have only ourselves to blame. For the sake of trying to save a bit of money the money men at the club will have blown millions in Champions League TV and advertising revenue. There's a lesson there that we should be learning but repeatedly ignore.
Said it because we were dropping points when Rashford, Pogba and Martial were healthy. We also pissed away the start of the season backing Lingard in the number 10 role while Pogba played deep CM. We didn't make anywhere close to the best of the hand we had been dealt. Let's just disagree on the needing Bruno to not expect a collapse part. It's similar to Jose fans telling us the season was ruined because no Perisic

edit: btw who do Sheffield, Wolves and Leicester have in midfield that's better than any trio combination of Pogba, Matic, Fred, Mctominay etc?
 
Last edited:

delerium

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
2
Goal difference could be crucial here, it seems that it's going to be very tight until the end. Need to give it a proper go in terms of goals as well.
 

Klopper76

"Did you see Fabinho against Red Star & Cardiff?"
Joined
Dec 15, 2015
Messages
12,965
Location
Toronto
Supports
Liverpool
Very interesting race going on now.

- Leicester sitting in 3rd but clearly out of form.
- Chelsea in 4th and looking good since the restart, but with some hard games coming up.
- United in great form for a while now. Front five looks great and becoming very hard to play against. Great fixture list to end the season.
- Wolves also in great form and looking like finishing the season strongly.

You've also got Spurs as distant outsiders.

I think Chelsea and United will take it but I'd love to see Wolves or Leicester in there just for a shake up.
 

Maluco

Full Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
1,215
I think if Leicester lose to Everton, they are as good as out of it, as strange as that sounds.

It’s too long a spell of bad form to indicate that they could go on a run to end the season, and I think the teams around them will.

They need a big result to turn things around and get their confidence back.
 

ZolaWasMagic

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
659
Supports
Chelsea
Can see Leicester dropping out. pool, city, chelsea, utd/leic. most likely utd
 

Maluco

Full Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
1,215
Don't fancy Wolves?
I actually think both Arsenal and Everton can go to wolves and get something. Arsenal will beat Norwich and get some more confidence back.

Even going to Sheffield United after arsenal won’t be an easy game for Wolves.
 

Nick.

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2016
Messages
849
We are looking like a quality side. We definitely have a chance of top 4 or Europa League.
 

ZolaWasMagic

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
659
Supports
Chelsea
Don't fancy Wolves?
nah, cracking effort by them though. Pool. City. Chelsea. Utd is my honest prediction, with 5th place also getting into CL because City's ban will stand but reduce to 1 year. Cannot see how they can overturn that

We have West Ham away, Watford home, Palace away, sheff u away, norwich home, pool away, wolves home. By the time we get to Liverpool i think top 4 will be sorted for all 4 clubs. I actually think tomorrow is the toughest up until the Liverpool game, but then again west ham in some dire form. Would have said Sheff U but they seem poor since restart.

If we can win tomorrow and put the gap back to 5, thats more or less job done for me. With my blue tinted specs on i thnk we will win the next 5, but who knows haha
 

Mr H

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2014
Messages
2,505
Good win, 3 points behind LCFC in 3rd and 2 behind Chelsea. There's a big chance LCFC won't win tomorrow as they play Everton away.

And the London derby is a difficult one. Chelsea can definitly lose points there. So let's see.

Tomorrow's games:

Everton - Leicester
West Ham - Chelsea

Hopefully tomorrow's table will end like today:

TeamPlayedPoints
Leicester​
31​
55​
Chelsea​
31​
54​
United​
32​
52​
 

King Eric 7

Full Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
1,541
West Ham are garbage so I expect them to lose to Chelsea tomorrow and bar Liverpool, Chelsea have a kind run in. Think we really needed to beat Spurs to have a chance of catching Chelsea.

It's going to be between us and Leicester for fourth place I reckon. Leicester have the trickiest fixtures left to play so I'd fancy us to get close to them at the very least. If they fail to win against Everton tomorrow, I'm confident we can hunt them down.
 

Feed Me

I'm hungry
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
26,721
Location
Midlands, UK
Has everyone stop shitting themselves about Wolves yet?

If we do our own job properly then we will finish in the top four.