Were Barca anything special in the late 90s? They kept losing their star player(s) to Real for a start and fat Ronaldo moved but like you say you didn't face him so Inter were only at 70% too? Juve I'll give you but they were hardly AC Milan off 2005 with peak Crespo, Shev, Kaka, Seedorf, etc.
Toughest/easiest run to the CL Final?
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On an emotional level alone, their ties against PSG and Chelsea had enough intense emotional highs to last a lifetime. If they get through City with a similar roller coaster ride and then beat Liverpool in the final, it would surely rank up there with their best ever CL campaigns.
Thanks for the game btw, all kinds of emotions in last nights match, and even though the 30 minutes of extra time raised my pulse considerably, it was a game for the ages.
You seem to be a very tough team in cup competitions under Tuchel, now how to translate that to league form?
Good question and made me have a look back.
Vs Barca lineups
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/55719--man-united-vs-barcelona/lineups/
Strong Barca lineup including Gigi, Giovanni, Anderson, Reiziger, Cocu and Rivaldo.
Vs Inter lineups
https://www.11v11.com/matches/inter-milano-v-manchester-united-17-march-1999-25139/
Strong again. Ronaldo, Zamorano, West, Simeone, Zanetti, Baggio and Pagliuca.
Juve I don't even have to do. That midfield was ridiculous.
Our Champions League win in 1999 was against a really, really tough set of fixtures.
We played a really strong Bayern side three times in total, a really talented Barcelona side twice and Inter and Juventus back when Serie A was much stronger and teams rarely won away in Italy.
Even more impressive that we didn't lose a single game.
We played a really strong Bayern side three times in total, a really talented Barcelona side twice and Inter and Juventus back when Serie A was much stronger and teams rarely won away in Italy.
Even more impressive that we didn't lose a single game.
Porto, Benfica and Villareal. Sackable to not make it
Most toughest draw yet stayed unbeaten that season in Europe.
I agree with our 1999.
Also didnt Real have a hard one? When Ronaldo went nuts and gave everyone a beating?
Also didnt Real have a hard one? When Ronaldo went nuts and gave everyone a beating?
At least try to get it right if you're gonna mock it
That 17/18 Real run was the hardest I can remember, they had PSG, Juve and Bayern, all were champions of their leagues at the time (maybe not psg, can't remember when Monaco won).
A little biased but it's one of the reasons I feel that 2010 Barca team is a tad overrated, in 2011/11 their path was Arsenal, Shaktar, Real and United. We were a shadow of our 2007/08 team and only got there because we faced a rubbish Schalke team in the semis. Real were the only relatively decent team they faced and even then that Real team wasn't anywhere near the one that would emerge 3 years later with the addition of Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Carvajal, Bale etc. In general the top teams were quite weak in that period.
A little biased but it's one of the reasons I feel that 2010 Barca team is a tad overrated, in 2011/11 their path was Arsenal, Shaktar, Real and United. We were a shadow of our 2007/08 team and only got there because we faced a rubbish Schalke team in the semis. Real were the only relatively decent team they faced and even then that Real team wasn't anywhere near the one that would emerge 3 years later with the addition of Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Carvajal, Bale etc. In general the top teams were quite weak in that period.
They had Lyon, Bayern, Chelsea and United in 2009. You guys had Lyon, Roma, Barcelona and Chelsea in 2008. Barca would have eliminated any side they came up against in 2009-2011 (in my opinion).
There will always be a few "average" sides in the Round of 16, and a select few in the QFs who had a great draw or great performance the round before. It very rarely happens that teams get three heavyweights on their way to the final. Had Bayern not lost against Villareal, I'd say Inter, Benfica, Bayern would have been a perfectly normal CL trajectory for Liverpool this season.
True.
My point was more that calibre of teams in general aside from Barca was quite low in that period. We were probably the 2nd best side and even then our team deteriorated a lot from the 2008 final into the 2009 one. From memory we lost Scholes, Tevez, Hargreaves and Brown, and replaced them all with inferior players. It'd be like if you guys didn't have Henderson, Fabinho, Firmino and TAA (though not the same extent on the last one). By the time 2011 rolled around our team was crap.
Though they should've gone out to Chelsea in 2009.. but I'm sure you could say similar for some of Real's runs.
Liverpool obviously have the easiest route in history!
Real Madrid have arguably the hardest route any team has ever had if they make it to the final?
PSG, Chelsea, Man City & Liverpool (potentially)
That’s arguably the 4 toughest teams in the world right now.
Add in Liverpool, Chelsea (replay) and Arsenal (replay) in FA cup.
Sometimes I wonder how the feck did we win the lot!
And on top of that, all season played with 16-17 players. First 11, Teddy, Ole, Butt, Blomquist and Berg. More or less....
Liverpool have the easiest run since that year they played some Irish part timers and about 2 other games to reach the final.
You can only beat what's in front of you so I don't get the difficult draw argument.
This season for example Liverpool only play Villarreal because Bayern and Juventus failed their jobs.
They only played Benfica because Barcelona and Ajax failed too.
The two teams Liverpool have beaten got where they did on merit and between them eliminated 4 strong clubs in doing so.
This season for example Liverpool only play Villarreal because Bayern and Juventus failed their jobs.
They only played Benfica because Barcelona and Ajax failed too.
The two teams Liverpool have beaten got where they did on merit and between them eliminated 4 strong clubs in doing so.
This is how myths start. Someone says it once, few people repeat it and then it becomes common phrase which is more or less BS. Yes, you beat what is in front of you but it is huge huge thing if you avoid big guns.
For example; you played tough game against Atletico. 3 days after tough game against Pool, you needed to play with best 11 in high tempo game and in game with dozen dangerous tackles. Liverpool played "easy" game vs Benfica.
On weekend Liverpool will be on 100%, City will need to rest some players. That will happen again in semis. City will play with best 11, Liverpool will win in first game already. Also, despite Villareal beating Bayern, in 4 games of 5 Bayern would win that tie. Don't tell me that you think that Villareal now is better team than Bayern? Ffs, even we beat them this year
.Look at your path in cups last few years. First few opponents were championship/div 1 teams where Pep could rest nearly whole first 11. On the other hand, when you get Arsenal, Villa or Spurs away, you can't rest players.
Don’t think you understand the argument. When a lower rank team knocks out a big team, it’s very rare they can carry on repeating this scenario. Villarreal have over achieved to get to semi final, and when they lose to Liverpool, they will still be hero’s. They don’t have the mentality of a big club to think we need to win this or we have failed. If Bayen had beaten Villarreal, they would be thinking, we can’t lose this semi final to Liverpool, or we will be battered by the media and fans.
I seem to recall @SER19 saying that our run in last year was the easiest in UCL history. Wonder what he’d have to say about Liverpool’s this year.
My point is it's not lucky draw it's Bayern messing up. Had Bayern won, no one would be saying easy run etc..
Don't get me wrong I think Liverpool will maybe win the quad now, but I blame Bayern and Juve that they have to play Villarreal as opposed to it being a luck thing.
Villarreal are likely to lose to them but it's not "lucky Liverpool" it's "Bayern screwed up" for me. Bayern shoulda prevented this match happening as opposed to football god's smiling on Liverpool.
Probably easier
Pretty sure they were also thinking that before the Villarreal draw though.
Sorry I missed this earlier dude. My point is one team only gets easy games because other big teams mess up. If for example Ajax and Bayern had done their jobs they'd have had a tough run, Liverpool couldn't control both Ajax and Bayern messing up, they literally can only beat who they're given. It's not a myth, they can't make Bayern progress and they couldn't make Ajax progress.This is how myths start. Someone says it once, few people repeat it and then it becomes common phrase which is more or less BS. Yes, you beat what is in front of you but it is huge huge thing if you avoid big guns.
For example; you played tough game against Atletico. 3 days after tough game against Pool, you needed to play with best 11 in high tempo game and in game with dozen dangerous tackles. Liverpool played "easy" game vs Benfica.
On weekend Liverpool will be on 100%, City will need to rest some players. That will happen again in semis. City will play with best 11, Liverpool will win in first game already. Also, despite Villareal beating Bayern, in 4 games of 5 Bayern would win that tie. Don't tell me that you think that Villareal now is better team than Bayern? Ffs, even we beat them this year
Look at your path in cups last few years. First few opponents were championship/div 1 teams where Pep could rest nearly whole first 11. On the other hand, when you get Arsenal, Villa or Spurs away, you can't rest players.
Liverpool's run to the CL (if they win it) should have been Inter, Ajax, Bayern and City/Real. Its only a nice draw because 2 of those teams completely messed up.
Real on the other hand had a killer run of PSG, Chelsea, City and likely Liverpool. But its only that difficult because Chelsea and City did their jobs.
If they hadn't Reals route could have been PSG, Lille, Sporting and Villarreal.
If they do win it, they'll have probably beaten 4 of the top 5 teams in Europe in the KO stage (top 5 not including themselves)
I've said this when City trashed Watford in the FA Cup final... why were Watford there in the first place? Because other teams that should be there messed up (with no disrespect to Watford)
Dippers' must've gone the whole hog and sold their asses to the devil to get Benfica and Villareal as their quarter and semi final teams. They'll probably be Conference League teams this time next year.
This sort of thing should be judged first on the standard of football played by the opposition in the games themselves, not with the names of clubs as the main factor. Otherwise you just get ignorant fans that might not have even watched all the games basing things solely on bigger names, while discounting the fact that the level of football teams are capable of is not a constant, unwavering thing.
A current second-tier name - Benfica, Spurs, AC Milan, Roma, Dortmund, Leipzig etc.. that is on form and plays at or near their best can well be a tougher challenge in a knockout game than an elite club that is out of form and playing below their average level. That they may not be able to finish higher over a full league season than the bigger name is a much lesser factor than the football they actually played on the pitch when judging who was the weak link in a cup run.
More often than not the smaller teams will be the weaker, but certainly not always the case especially once you start going back further than the last 10-15 years when talent was more spread out.
A current second-tier name - Benfica, Spurs, AC Milan, Roma, Dortmund, Leipzig etc.. that is on form and plays at or near their best can well be a tougher challenge in a knockout game than an elite club that is out of form and playing below their average level. That they may not be able to finish higher over a full league season than the bigger name is a much lesser factor than the football they actually played on the pitch when judging who was the weak link in a cup run.
More often than not the smaller teams will be the weaker, but certainly not always the case especially once you start going back further than the last 10-15 years when talent was more spread out.
That still makes it a very easy and lucky draw.
That's madness when you consider the CL draw too. What a season
Liverpool will win
I put money on it
They deserve it because their owners want them to win and actually (it will hurt-you might feel a prick), we should celebrate it. A proper club winning without sports washing and killing people.
Sorry if that’s controversial
I put money on it
They deserve it because their owners want them to win and actually (it will hurt-you might feel a prick), we should celebrate it. A proper club winning without sports washing and killing people.
Sorry if that’s controversial
Our treble season was Supreme and due to the fact that I have nothing else do but reminisce about the glorious past I'll give a retread on why that's so.
We had both bayern and barca in our group who were top of their respective leagues and would go on to win it in that season as well.
Bayern specifically was quality who barley lost on the Bundesliga last season and were on course to have their own treble before well you know.
Barca too had the likes of rivaldo and a young xavi who comfortably beat real to that years title and generally had a decent experience in European competitions.
Inter were kind of in a crisis at the time they were still quite formidable as they topped their group that included Madrid whom they beat 3_0 and had an extremely stacked squad with the likes of Ronaldo and baggio though they finished the leugue at 8th place as they had a malfunction and a slew of injuries and their form dropped.
Same with juve who while having the most stacked squad in the world were going through a crisis of their own with ancelotti having trouble managing the egos yet they too topped their group and clearly were looking at Europe as a way to salvage their season, and they were the premier European team of those days reaching 3 consecutive finals losing 2 on bad luck ( realistic goal was offside i think) and they were clearly out for blood.
Add all of that to a congested domestic calender one of the hardest cup draws ever and a close race for the title with a worthy foe and you have one of football's greatest achievements.
We had both bayern and barca in our group who were top of their respective leagues and would go on to win it in that season as well.
Bayern specifically was quality who barley lost on the Bundesliga last season and were on course to have their own treble before well you know.
Barca too had the likes of rivaldo and a young xavi who comfortably beat real to that years title and generally had a decent experience in European competitions.
Inter were kind of in a crisis at the time they were still quite formidable as they topped their group that included Madrid whom they beat 3_0 and had an extremely stacked squad with the likes of Ronaldo and baggio though they finished the leugue at 8th place as they had a malfunction and a slew of injuries and their form dropped.
Same with juve who while having the most stacked squad in the world were going through a crisis of their own with ancelotti having trouble managing the egos yet they too topped their group and clearly were looking at Europe as a way to salvage their season, and they were the premier European team of those days reaching 3 consecutive finals losing 2 on bad luck ( realistic goal was offside i think) and they were clearly out for blood.
Add all of that to a congested domestic calender one of the hardest cup draws ever and a close race for the title with a worthy foe and you have one of football's greatest achievements.
They probably were, but it doesn’t change my argument
100%. We played the best and we beat the best that year.
No run comes close, and no amount of bleating from the Liverpool fans on this board changes that.
This will make it easier for everyone:
Toughest run to the CL final in the history of the world ever: Manchester United
Easiest run to the CL final in the history of the world ever: Liverpool F.C.
There.
Toughest run to the CL final in the history of the world ever: Manchester United
Easiest run to the CL final in the history of the world ever: Liverpool F.C.
There.
Strongly disagree