Transfer Muppet Draft 1st Semi Final - MJJ vs Annahnomoss

[antohan]

It's an amazing side, but he's come up against the worst possible team for me. I would have probably voted for him against the other two teams.

Mjj vs. crappy would have been bizarre. Both great counter-attacking sides so would likely spend all game going "attack me", "no, you attack me!"

 

[crappycraperson]

Tactics wise Emerson would be better in there. Rooney dropping deep will help kick start the counters. Voting wise Cesc is better ;p

 

[antohan]

Kudos to both managers, cracking teams and coherent themes with players well suited to their roles. Every time I try vote I go "yeah, but...". Truth is that Barca side (let alone Spain) bored me to tears. If there ever was a team worth watching the highlights that was it, the goals were brilliant but the rest of the game defied anyone's attention span... except when they played against you and instead of bored you just felt complete impotence. I'm sure I'm not alone saying I spent 75% of those two finals just sitting there thinking "we are never going to score here". But then, Cristiano, Giggsy, Henry, Rooney... How could they not score?

 

[Moby]

Kudos to both managers, cracking teams and coherent themes with players well suited to their roles. Every time I try vote I go "yeah, but...". Truth is that Barca side (let alone Spain) bored me to tears. If there ever was a team worth watching the highlights that was it, the goals were brilliant but the rest of the game defied anyone's attention span... except when they played against you and instead of bored you just felt complete impotence. I'm sure I'm not alone saying I spent 75% of those two finals just sitting there thinking "we are never going to score here". But then, Cristiano, Giggsy, Henry, Rooney... How could they not score?

Most of it with Barca was due to every single team sitting deep and parking the bus. No particular style of football can entertain you when one team is intent in not playing the game. But then no one had the balls to attack them. Not without getting ripped apart anyway.

 

[antohan]

Most of it with Barca was due to every single team sitting deep and parking the bus. No particular style of football can entertain you when one team is intent in not playing the game. But then no one had the balls to attack them. Not without getting ripped apart anyway.

Relevant, but not as definitive. I used to love watching us play against all the park the bus dross, it was still great football.

 

[Moby]

Relevant, but not as definitive. I used to love watching us play against all the park the bus dross, it was still great football.

Really? All those games against Portsmouth and Bolton and what not that were decided by a Cristiano free kick or a Vidic set piece header were watching paint dry.

 

[MJJ]

Kudos to both managers, cracking teams and coherent themes with players well suited to their roles. Every time I try vote I go "yeah, but...". Truth is that Barca side (let alone Spain) bored me to tears. If there ever was a team worth watching the highlights that was it, the goals were brilliant but the rest of the game defied anyone's attention span... except when they played against you and instead of bored you just felt complete impotence. I'm sure I'm not alone saying I spent 75% of those two finals just sitting there thinking "we are never going to score here". But then, Cristiano, Giggsy, Henry, Rooney... How could they not score?

Thats exactly how I feel about tiki-taka. I think thats why I find that barca side a bit overrated.

 

[antohan]

Really? All those games against Portsmouth and Bolton and what not that were decided by a Cristiano free kick or a Vidic set piece header were watching paint dry.

But you watched players trying to break down a defence in various different ways, Ronaldo tried to dribble past people, we had shots on goal, desperate defending... I remember one particular Portsmouth game we went out of one of the cups but we fecking mauled them all game, just unlucky.

Very different from watching a bunch of midgets playing monito with someone... all fecking game. Pass, pass, pass in triangles, "watch how this feckers run, they'll be knackered in no time!"... I see the point, it's effective, but I don't find it entertaining. And when the other team inevitably tired, you didn't quite appreciate the goals because they were clearly playing against a shadow of a side. Much better to watch highlights without context!

 

[crappycraperson]

In a way Barca were lucky that they came up against Fergie's teams in those finals. Fergie may play defensive football in any other big match but he always had this thing of playing it the right way in big finals. Our line up in the second final was suicide basically and we were never going to win.

 

[crappycraperson]

But you watched players trying to break down a defence in various different ways, Ronaldo tried to dribble past people, we had shots on goal, desperate defending... I remember one particular Portsmouth game we went out of one of the cups but we fecking mauled them all game, just unlucky.

Very different from watching a bunch of midgets playing monito with someone... all fecking game. Pass, pass, pass in triangles, "watch how this feckers run, they'll be knackered in no time!"... I see the point, it's effective, but I don't find it entertaining. And when the other team inevitably tired, you didn't quite appreciate the goals because they were clearly playing against a shadow of a side. Much better to watch highlights without context!

FA cup

The match against Derby? was another one. Everyone one was putting 5 or 6 past them and we struggled to score one till the 70th minute after gazillion attacks

 

[Moby]

But you watched players trying to break down a defence in various different ways, Ronaldo tried to dribble past people, we had shots on goal, desperate defending... I remember one particular Portsmouth game we went out of one of the cups but we fecking mauled them all game, just unlucky.

Very different from watching a bunch of midgets playing monito with someone... all fecking game. Pass, pass, pass in triangles, "watch how this feckers run, they'll be knackered in no time!"... I see the point, it's effective, but I don't find it entertaining. And when the other team inevitably tired, you didn't quite appreciate the goals because they were clearly playing against a shadow of a side. Much better to watch highlights without context!

But that's how Spain played, not Barca. Spain were the real culprits of using tiki taka as a defensive strategy, VdB with his extra Dm, it was clear that they set out with the plan of nicking one goal and then just keeping the ball.

With Barca it was rarely like that. Messi, Xavi, Iniesta constantly try to find in roads, at least under Pep. Doing 1-2s, stretching it wide to Alves, etc, Pep was the one who used tiki taka to attack first, not defend. Teams getting tired was their own fault, anyone who thinks they can get the ball off that barca team just by chasing them is gonna end up fecked.

That pompy game was insane, it was the FA Cup one in 2008. Pompey didn't park the bus in that one though, there was plenty of space and we had a few counters going.

But usually the point of trying to break down the defense holds for Barca as much as anyone else. The thing they probably lacked were a plan B, which is a fair criticism and something you need when plan A can't break things down. Which is where we would be crossing, trying long shots, etc. But this whole argument of Barca keeping the ball for the sake of it is just nonsense and rarely ever happened, in those years under Pep.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Has to be MJJ for me. But both managers have done very well here - both teams are excellent.

And, yes - there is no doubt Annah would've fared better on a forum not populated by people who are likely to have a thing for Keane and Giggs. And Ronaldo too, I suppose. Rooney, on the other hand - not so sure he's a vote puller on here!

Oh, and yesterday's fiasco - it obviously wasn't the best timing for anything having to do with tiki-taka.

 

[antohan]

But that's how Spain played, not Barca. Spain were the real culprits of using tiki taka as a defensive strategy, VdB with his extra Dm, it was clear that they set out with the plan of nicking one goal and then just keeping the ball.

With Barca it was rarely like that. Messi, Xavi, Iniesta constantly try to find in roads, at least under Pep. Doing 1-2s, stretching it wide to Alves, etc, Pep was the one who used tiki taka to attack first, not defend. Teams getting tired was their own fault, anyone who thinks they can get the ball off that barca team just by chasing them is gonna end up fecked.

That pompy game was insane, it was the FA Cup one in 2008. Pompey didn't park the bus in that one though, there was plenty of space and we had a few counters going.

But usually the point of trying to break down the defense holds for Barca as much as anyone else. The thing they probably lacked were a plan B, which is a fair criticism and something you need when plan A can't break things down. Which is where we would be crossing, trying long shots, etc. But this whole argument of Barca keeping the ball for the sake of it is just nonsense and rarely ever happened, in those years under Pep.

Spain were just horrendous to watch, I actually did fall asleep several times watching them during the last World Cup. I actively avoided them so much I ended up missing much of that goalfest against Italy at the Euros.

The lack of Plan B was certainly Barca's biggest problem, no doubt. Other than that they were unplayable. Don't get me wrong, they were very effective and successful, I just prefer seeing stuff like SAF subbing off fullbacks for wingers and such

 

[Moby]

Spain were just horrendous to watch, I actually did fall asleep several times watching them during the last World Cup. I actively avoided them so much I ended up missing much of that goalfest against Italy at the Euros.

The lack of Plan B was certainly Barca's biggest problem, no doubt. Other than that they were unplayable. Don't get me wrong, they were very effective and successful, I just prefer seeing stuff like SAF subbing off fullbacks for wingers and such

How have we missed that. All those comebacks were a result of Saf going all out, thrwoing bodies forward, making bold subs and making the opposition shit their pants.

I guess I am one of the few who doesn't really have any preference in terms of style of football when it comes to being entertaining. Possession, counters attacking, wing play, whatever. As long as it's technically good and attacking, it's entertaining. But these days there's a trend of picking one over another for some reason. There's even a thread saying counter attacking vs tiki taka, I will never understand something like that.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

But that's how Spain played, not Barca. Spain were the real culprits of using tiki taka as a defensive strategy, VdB with his extra Dm, it was clear that they set out with the plan of nicking one goal and then just keeping the ball.

With Barca it was rarely like that. Messi, Xavi, Iniesta constantly try to find in roads, at least under Pep. Doing 1-2s, stretching it wide to Alves, etc, Pep was the one who used tiki taka to attack first, not defend. Teams getting tired was their own fault, anyone who thinks they can get the ball off that barca team just by chasing them is gonna end up fecked.

That pompy game was insane, it was the FA Cup one in 2008. Pompey didn't park the bus in that one though, there was plenty of space and we had a few counters going.

But usually the point of trying to break down the defense holds for Barca as much as anyone else. The thing they probably lacked were a plan B, which is a fair criticism and something you need when plan A can't break things down. Which is where we would be crossing, trying long shots, etc. But this whole argument of Barca keeping the ball for the sake of it is just nonsense and rarely ever happened, in those years under Pep.

I don't know about this, man. To me there was always something about this approach which dragged the life out of the game. The basic premise is hog the the ball - beyond all the fancy terms that is the premise. If your opponent doesn't have the ball, he can't do anything dangerous with it. Stay on the ball - that's the basis of the old Dutch ways tiki-taka arguably grew out of too. There is something about this that I fundamentally dislike. I can't help it. And the old Dutch ways were more adventurous too, more willing to just risk it all. The focus on possession which is part and parcel of tiki-taka just...I don't know, it just ends up having something almost destructive about it which kills the fun for me.

And when you add that to an unfortunate tendency to apply some sort of pseudo-esthetic ideal to what is, and should be, a fecking game - you end up with something positively disgusting. We play beautiful football, the others try to kill our art. That sort of thing. The moment something, anything, in football becomes pretentious - I can't stand it. It's about winning the match. It can't be about anything else. In that - the struggle to win the bloody match - there is something deeply human, and possibly even something transcendent. Something great, if you will. Anyone who stands there after having been beaten by a parked bus - and who tries to appeal to some kind of misinformed concept of "justice", as that utter dimwit Brenton did the other day - has missed the point entirely. And the most vocal supporters of Barca's style have been guilty of precisely that. In my opinion.

Alright. Just a little rant. I've had a few, don't mind me. Carry on.

 

[Annahnomoss]

How have we missed that. All those comebacks were a result of Saf going all out, thrwoing bodies forward, making bold subs and making the opposition shit their pants.

I guess I am one of the few who doesn't really have any preference in terms of style of football when it comes to being entertaining. Possession, counters attacking, wing play, whatever. As long as it's technically good and attacking, it's entertaining. But these days there's a trend of picking one over another for some reason. There's even a thread saying counter attacking vs tiki taka, I will never understand something like that.

I agree with this. I couldn't care less about that, how penetrative and good you play whatever style will be the deciding factor to how entertaining it is. All available tactics, played without enough penetration are boring as hell. If someone plays counter-attacking football and fails to counter well then that is horribly boring as well.

 

[Gio]

Kudos to both managers, cracking teams and coherent themes with players well suited to their roles. Every time I try vote I go "yeah, but...". Truth is that Barca side (let alone Spain) bored me to tears. If there ever was a team worth watching the highlights that was it, the goals were brilliant but the rest of the game defied anyone's attention span... except when they played against you and instead of bored you just felt complete impotence. I'm sure I'm not alone saying I spent 75% of those two finals just sitting there thinking "we are never going to score here". But then, Cristiano, Giggsy, Henry, Rooney... How could they not score?

I've gone for Annah. Think folk are too easily dismissing how successful Spain and Barca were at their best. My only criticism of Annah is that he could do with the plan B that Guardiola had in 2008/09 - the pace and directness of Eto'o and Henry.

 

[Balu]

I don't know about this, man. To me there was always something about this approach which dragged the life out of the game. The basic premise is hog the the ball - beyond all the fancy terms that is the premise. If your opponent doesn't have the ball, he can't do anything dangerous with it. Stay on the ball - that's the basis of the old Dutch ways tiki-taka arguably grew out of too. There is something about this that I fundamentally dislike. I can't help it. And the old Dutch ways were more adventurous too, more willing to just risk it all. The focus on possession which is part and parcel of tiki-taka just...I don't know, it just ends up having something almost destructive about it which kills the fun for me.

And when you add that to an unfortunate tendency to apply some sort of pseudo-esthetic ideal to what is, and should be, a fecking game - you end up with something positively disgusting. We play beautiful football, the others try to kill our art. That sort of thing. The moment something, anything, in football becomes pretentious - I can't stand it. It's about winning the match. It can't be about anything else. In that - the struggle to win the bloody match - there is something deeply human, and possibly even something transcendent. Something great, if you will. Anyone who stands there after having been beaten by a parked bus - and who tries to appeal to some kind of misinformed concept of "justice", as that utter dimwit Brenton did the other day - has missed the point entirely. And the most vocal supporters of Barca's style have been guilty of precisely that. In my opinion.

Alright. Just a little rant. I've had a few, don't mind me. Carry on.

Van Gaal will be your new best friend, if he becomes the new manager at United .

 

[crappycraperson]

I don't know about this, man. To me there was always something about this approach which dragged the life out of the game. The basic premise is hog the the ball - beyond all the fancy terms that is the premise. If your opponent doesn't have the ball, he can't do anything dangerous with it. Stay on the ball - that's the basis of the old Dutch ways tiki-taka arguably grew out of too. There is something about this that I fundamentally dislike. I can't help it. And the old Dutch ways were more adventurous too, more willing to just risk it all. The focus on possession which is part and parcel of tiki-taka just...I don't know, it just ends up having something almost destructive about it which kills the fun for me.

And when you add that to an unfortunate tendency to apply some sort of pseudo-esthetic ideal to what is, and should be, a fecking game - you end up with something positively disgusting. We play beautiful football, the others try to kill our art. That sort of thing. The moment something, anything, in football becomes pretentious - I can't stand it. It's about winning the match. It can't be about anything else. In that - the struggle to win the bloody match - there is something deeply human, and possibly even something transcendent. Something great, if you will. Anyone who stands there after having been beaten by a parked bus - and who tries to appeal to some kind of misinformed concept of "justice", as that utter dimwit Brenton did the other day - has missed the point entirely. And the most vocal supporters of Barca's style have been guilty of precisely that. In my opinion.

Alright. Just a little rant. I've had a few, don't mind me. Carry on.

Great rant. Personally I love Athletico this season. A proper group of highly motivated individuals led by a true leader, not willing to give an inch on the pitch to anyone. How can you not root for them against all the money bags team around who have more talent on their reserve squad than Atletico's first team.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I've gone for Annah. Think folk are too easily dismissing how successful Spain and Barca were at their best. My only criticism of Annah is that he could do with the plan B that Guardiola had in 2008/09 - the pace and directness of Eto'o and Henry.

Certainly the case, Henry especially would have also been interesting to see on the LW role - at his peak.

 

[MJJ]

Van Gaal will be your new best friend, if he becomes the new manager at United .

Van Gaal plays tiki-taka?

 

[Gio]

Great rant. Personally I love Athletico this season. A proper group of highly motivated individuals led by a true leader, not willing to give an inch on the pitch to anyone. How can you not route for them against all the money bags team around who have more talent on their reserve squad that Atletico's first team.

Yep. It's a fantastic story.

 

[crappycraperson]

I've gone for Annah. Think folk are too easily dismissing how successful Spain and Barca were at their best. My only criticism of Annah is that he could do with the plan B that Guardiola had in 2008/09 - the pace and directness of Eto'o and Henry.

Spain should not come into this clearly. He has even mentioned the manager is Pep in his write up!

As far as themes go, this is direct homage to Barca 2010/11 with 4 of the main players assembled here.

I think Annah missed a trick not getting Villa here. He could have left Ramos in and gotten Villa instead

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Van Gaal will be your new best friend, if he becomes the new manager at United .

Hehe. Yeah. I reckon Van Gaal is more Michels and less Pep, as far as "Dutch" goes. And that's fine by me. For now.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Great rant. Personally I love Athletico this season. A proper group of highly motivated individuals led by a true leader, not willing to give an inch on the pitch to anyone. How can you not root for them against all the money bags team around who have more talent on their reserve squad than Atletico's first team.

Absolutely. Hope they win the lot. If only Simeone wasn't into astrology I'd love him unconditionally.

 

[Balu]

Hehe. Yeah. I reckon Van Gaal is more Michels and less Pep, as far as "Dutch" goes. And that's fine by me. For now.

No, no. He's the worst of them all. Sucks the life out of the game, imo. I can't count how often I heard him say that you have to tire out your opponent and then score late after watching 85minutes of fecking boring pass-pass-pass-nonsense in our own half, just to be saved by a Robben wondergoal in the end.

 

[crappycraperson]

11 lead now. Annah better hope that few Barca fans on here come upon this thread

 

[Chesterlestreet]

No, no. He's the worst of them all. Sucks the life out of the game, imo. I can't count how often I heard him say that you have to tire out your opponent and then score late after watching 85minutes of fecking boring pass-pass-pass-nonsense in our own half, just to be saved by a Robben wondergoal in the end.

This is what I truly fear about the man. Why did you have to bring it up? It's the dark side of Van Gaal, isn't it? When things flow, it looks excellent - when it doesn't flow, it looks impotent as hell!

Damn you, Balu.

What do we do? Giggs? That has disaster written all over it too.

 

[NM]

Two amazingly built teams. United bias makes me vote MJJ though. Adding Henryto ronaldo, Giggs and Rooney!! What an attack!

 

[MJJ]

No, no. He's the worst of them all. Sucks the life out of the game, imo. I can't count how often I heard him say that you have to tire out your opponent and then score late after watching 85minutes of fecking boring pass-pass-pass-nonsense in our own half, just to be saved by a Robben wondergoal in the end.

Oh God

Can we call moyes back?

 

[Balu]

Absolutely. Hope they win the lot. If only Simeone wasn't into astrology I'd love him unconditionally.

Maybe he's right though? Maybe it's written in the stars that Atletico will win the CL exactly 40 years after they lost the final, when Schwarzenbeck equalised Aragones' goal in the 120th minute and we then beat them in the replay to win our first ever European Cup. Aragones' death earlier this year would make it even more special. It probably should have been again against Bayern though. Let's hope Real won't spoil the whole thing.

 

[MJJ]

Two amazingly built teams. United bias makes me vote MJJ though. Adding Henryto ronaldo, Giggs and Rooney!! What an attack!

Thanks NM.

 

[Balu]

Van Gaal plays tiki-taka?

I think I wrote after every bad Bayern performance this season (which usually meant ineffective boring possession nonsense) 'this is van Gaal all over again' . But maybe he has a different idea for United, who knows.

 

[MJJ]

I think I wrote after every bad Bayern performance this season (which usually meant ineffective boring possession nonsense) 'this is van Gaal all over again' . But maybe he has a different idea for United, who knows.

You are scaring me Balu

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Maybe he's right though? Maybe it's written in the stars that Atletico will win the CL exactly 40 years after they lost the final, when Schwarzenbeck equalised Aragones' goal in the 120th minute and we then beat them in the replay to win our first ever European Cup. Aragones' death earlier this year would make it even more special. It probably should have been again against Bayern though. Let's hope Real won't spoil the whole thing.

Yes...and when you think about it ARAGONES (8) is only ONE letter short of SIMEONE (7) and both names contain the letters (in that very order!) ONE. Amazing. Can't be coincidence.

 

[Balu]

Yes...and when you think about it ARAGONES (8) is only ONE letter short of SIMEONE (7) and both names contain the letters (in that very order!) ONE. Amazing. Can't be coincidence.

Whatever helps winning the final. I don't want Real to win it and I really really love Atletico for kicking Chelsea out.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Whatever helps winning the final. I don't want Real to win it and I really really love Atletico for kicking Chelsea out.

One hundred percent agreed on both counts.

 

[MJJ]

Other than scholes, who do people think would be a perfect midfielder for my side?

 

[crappycraperson]

hahah don worry I will go out and you will get your dream CM and the dream AM as well

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Other than scholes, who do people think would be a perfect midfielder for my side?

Caveat: No idea right now who plays where and/or who is available draft wise apart from the cutoff date.

Vidal.

Team him up with Keano. People love him. And he's genuinely bloody good in the role of an allround midfielder - with some of the perceived qualities Fabregas is missing.

Modric.

He would answer the demands for more playmaker qualities in your Keano sidekick.