UK Food Poverty

[Jericholyte2]

Listening to the radio and seeing the recent thread by Jack Monroe (link below, please read the full thread). Read this thread and remember that we're the 6th richest country in the world. Headlines are that whilst 'the cost of living' is going up with inflation at over 5%, the real costs are increasing exponentially! The part that got me was that store branded ready-meals and the famous 'Dine for £10' stay the same price - meaning these costs are, as ever, discriminately impacting on the poorest.

Five million people in the UK live in food poverty - one in eight of us!
Millions resorting to Food Banks
Food Banks now needing cold foods because those people can't afford to heat things like pasta, rice etc

How is this allowed to happen!?!?

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[horsechoker]

Is this all due to Brexit or are there other factors at play?

I wonder what the true cost of those ready meals are. Can they sell them at a loss because they know they'll make the money elsewhere?

 

[DJ Jeff]

I genuinely don't understand how this happens when I'm buying tins of newgate beans in lidl for 20c

Seriously can someone give a financial breakdown of how you could possibly be starving on minimum wage/benefits in UK? I've been on benefits in Ireland at times and never come close, nor seen anyone come close, to actual starvation situation. how does it happen?

 

[The Corinthian]

They’ll pin it on inflation and a rise in manufacturing cost and all sorts, the reality is that corporations want to protect their margins, pass these additional costs onto the consumer and will still attain record breaking profits for the next few years. And it was ever thus.

 

[hungrywing]

Is this all due to Brexit or are there other factors at play?

I wonder what the true cost of those ready meals are. Can they sell them at a loss because they know they'll make the money elsewhere?

It's a worldwide thing. Made worse by covid. Each country largely reports on it as if it's only happening locally.

https://www.gbfb.org/2011/08/30/hello-world/

http://archive.boston.com/news/nati...percent_more_us_children_went_hungry_in_2007/

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/30/hunger-increased-30-percent-latin-america-since-2019-un

(there are many many many more such articles, mostly starting around the mid 2000s, mostly reported locally)

It's been really ramping up since about the mid 2000s, right during the run-up to the 2008 crisis (birth and rise of the tech companies, anyone?)

The UK actually does a bit of a better job than many other countries with your reduction/yellow stickers thing for items on the expiration date.

Very very long story short, it's a function mainly of hypercapitalism needing an ever-bigger market (more people) to suck money from as total wealth is based on the total desire for wealth, all while the earth has a finite sustainment capacity. Eventually this setup runs into the problem of 'how to keep all these plebians alive and participating for as long as possible to suck as much desire from them as possible' whilst the earth can create only so much food. This is now resulting in massive swaths of classes that can't afford those prices. This is of course no different from the past except in sheer scale, which is, again, the unique aspect, created by the runaway desire to create larger and larger markets using unsustainable measures.

The real crazy thing is that depending on what organization you ask, the developed world throws out enough edible food every day to feed all the world's hungry for that day (with minor quibbles regarding the +/- percentages. It's a very complicated distribution/legal/ethical/philosophical problem.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Is this all due to Brexit or are there other factors at play?

I wonder what the true cost of those ready meals are. Can they sell them at a loss because they know they'll make the money elsewhere?

It's more likely that there's a lot more profit margin in those meals than the cheaper stuff so there's less pressure for raising the price of them. The UK has a hyper-competitive supermarket sector which has led to some of the lowest food prices in Europe. My guess is that there was very little margin in some of the cheaper foods because of this so now they're spiralling somewhat as production costs increase.

As for the Brexit question, it probably plays a part but the picture is a lot more complicated. The UK food price inflation was 4.2% last year which is above the EU average at 2.9% but lower than Spain at 5% and Germany at 5.9%. The problem is worldwide. Spare a thought for Venezuela who have experienced a 1037% increase in food prices last year.

 

[hungrywing]

It's more likely that there's a lot more profit margin in those meals than the cheaper stuff so there's less pressure for raising the price of them. The UK has a hyper-competitive supermarket sector which has led to some of the lowest food prices in Europe. My guess is that there was very little margin in some of the cheaper foods because of this so now they're spiralling somewhat as production costs increase.

As for the Brexit question, it probably plays a part but the picture is a lot more complicated. The UK food price inflation was 4.2% last year which is above the EU average at 2.9% but lower than Spain at 5% and Germany at 5.9%. The problem is worldwide. Spare a thought for Venezuela who have experienced a 1037% increase in food prices last year.

The bolded part cannot be emphasized enough. It's happening all over the world and most reporting is local. It's complex and weird and 'economists' try to play it off as 'simple economics' when it's actually a socio-environmental issue stemming from computing power 'optimizing' supply chains for 'lowest cost' along arbitrary parameters.

 

[Jippy]

I genuinely don't understand how this happens when I'm buying tins of newgate beans in lidl for 20c

Seriously can someone give a financial breakdown of how you could possibly be starving on minimum wage/benefits in UK? I've been on benefits in Ireland at times and never come close, nor seen anyone come close, to actual starvation situation. how does it happen?

It's because benefit people spend all their money on massive TVs, fags and booze and have loads of kids by different partners.

 

[jojojo]

I genuinely don't understand how this happens when I'm buying tins of newgate beans in lidl for 20c

Seriously can someone give a financial breakdown of how you could possibly be starving on minimum wage/benefits in UK? I've been on benefits in Ireland at times and never come close, nor seen anyone come close, to actual starvation situation. how does it happen?

I think part of it is that the UK supermarkets have turned their attention to spend per customer. Aldi beans have gone to 32p/tin - still cheap but that's up from 22p. Aldi's advertising has changed from individual prices (because Tesco's can pricematch them on those) to total trolley price of a bunch of products. The margin on beans isn't high enough for them to care if they sell fewer beans. They're chasing the whole weekly shop.

I think stuff like the £10 for 2 (including wine!) meal deals, because it targets people with more money, stay in place because it tempts the spenders in. Flippantly, I'd say they're betting if you've got the money for that, then maybe you'll stick around to buy that + the asparagus and the nice bread, and that cute looking melon, and the bag of dishwater tablets etc. Everything else in that trolley has gone up, but those special deals survive as marketing tools.

Certainly the price jumps on some products are way above the official price index stuff. Noticeably so, as the twitter thread says, on the prices of basics like dry pasta and rice. On things that you can cook without a stove (a crucial section of the food poor) the cheap soups, tinned tuna, veg, ravioli, sliced bread etc have gone up. And that's before you get onto the other essentials like washing powder and "luxuries" like fruit and veg.

 

[DJ Jeff]

It's because benefit people spend all their money on massive TVs, fags and booze and have loads of kids by different partners.

I mean apart from the massive tvs and kids by different partners a large chunk of my dole when I was on it was going on booze and fags for sure, so I don't begrudge anyone that. people need something

 

[hungrywing]

I think part of it is that the UK supermarkets have turned their attention to spend per customer. Aldi beans have gone to 32p/tin - still cheap but that's up from 22p. Aldi's advertising has changed from individual prices (because Tesco's can pricematch them on those) to total trolley price of a bunch of products. The margin on beans isn't high enough for them to care if they sell fewer beans. They're chasing the whole weekly shop.

I think stuff like the £10 for 2 (including wine!) meal deals, because it targets people with more money, stay in place because it tempts the spenders in. Flippantly, I'd say they're betting if you've got the money for that, then maybe you'll stick around to buy that + the asparagus and the nice bread, and that cute looking melon, and the bag of dishwater tablets etc. Everything else in that trolley has gone up, but those special deals survive as marketing tools.

Certainly the price jumps on some products are way above the official price index stuff. Noticeably so, as the twitter thread says, on the prices of basics like dry pasta and rice. On things that you can cook without a stove (a crucial section of the food poor) the cheap soups, tinned tuna, veg, ravioli, sliced bread etc have gone up. And that's before you get onto the other essentials like washing powder and "luxuries" like fruit and veg.

You probably already know this, but (not necessarily saying those deals are sold at a loss):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader

But discussions inevitably stray into side-eddies of technicalities and local idiosyncracies when the underlying cause, as mentioned above, is hypercapitalism caught between 'needing' as many people alive as possible to harvest from and to support 'market growth' and all the 'optimized' metrics based on it, while actual food harvest aka natural energy transfer has a sort of built-in bounds. All other discussions arise from there.

 

[villain]

Food waste in this country is pretty staggering, supermarkets, restaurants, cafes etc - all throw tons of food away because they're not allowed to (their bosses don't want to) give it away for free. Likewise food banks can't accept food that isn't packaged properly or has been cooked because they can't account for its safety.
By doing this they're causing two problems at once, all in order to prop up capitalism & profits - its staggering.

 

[Jippy]

I think part of it is that the UK supermarkets have turned their attention to spend per customer. Aldi beans have gone to 32p/tin - still cheap but that's up from 22p. Aldi's advertising has changed from individual prices (because Tesco's can pricematch them on those) to total trolley price of a bunch of products. The margin on beans isn't high enough for them to care if they sell fewer beans. They're chasing the whole weekly shop.

I think stuff like the £10 for 2 (including wine!) meal deals, because it targets people with more money, stay in place because it tempts the spenders in. Flippantly, I'd say they're betting if you've got the money for that, then maybe you'll stick around to buy that + the asparagus and the nice bread, and that cute looking melon, and the bag of dishwater tablets etc. Everything else in that trolley has gone up, but those special deals survive as marketing tools.

Certainly the price jumps on some products are way above the official price index stuff. Noticeably so, as the twitter thread says, on the prices of basics like dry pasta and rice. On things that you can cook without a stove (a crucial section of the food poor) the cheap soups, tinned tuna, veg, ravioli, sliced bread etc have gone up. And that's before you get onto the other essentials like washing powder and "luxuries" like fruit and veg.

We had to do 'home economics' as a lesson when I was at school and it was widely derided at the time.I've no idea if it even exists on the curriculum today -we didn't sit any exams in it- but there's a strong argument for the class. Broaden it it to money, pensions etc...

The supermarkets are obviously expert and cynical in their pricing and marketing, but you can eat cheaply if you take advantage of their deals, buy fruit and veg from grocers etc...

Not much help to a single mum knackered after working, trying to feed two screaming kids and not having the energy to cook from scratch. Much easier to stick fish fingers in the oven.

 

[11101]

I genuinely don't understand how this happens when I'm buying tins of newgate beans in lidl for 20c

Seriously can someone give a financial breakdown of how you could possibly be starving on minimum wage/benefits in UK? I've been on benefits in Ireland at times and never come close, nor seen anyone come close, to actual starvation situation. how does it happen?

I think this is an elephant in the room that people don't dare talk about. There is no fecking way 5 million people genuinely cannot afford food in this country.

Benefits in the UK are capped at 260 quid a week per person. That should be enough to live on if you use it properly. It's the 'if you use it properly' that needs to be focused on as much as simply asking for more money.

 

[hungrywing]

The larger populace is doomed to merely skirt around the issue due to inability to comprehend the more complex mechanics and hence ask more detailed questions.

The underlying mechanic is the same one at work behind this practice:

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/...nds-burning-merchandise-burberry-nike-h-and-m

 

[DJ Jeff]

I think this is an elephant in the room that people don't dare talk about. There is no fecking way 5 million people genuinely cannot afford food in this country.

Benefits in the UK are capped at 260 quid a week per person. That should be enough to live on if you use it properly. It's the 'if you use it properly' that needs to be focused on as much as simply asking for more money.

I genuinely just do not understand it. I don't understand the income levels/expenses people are racking up to the point that children are actually starving. Not suffering from malnutrition, as basically all of us are, but starving, which seems to be doing the rounds a lot in the press. I've never seen it myself. I don't want to write it off because of course I've never experienced it. Last year people seemed to be of the opinion that its an actual epidemic that is happening in huge numbers?!

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

The rising cost of groceries seems minuscule compared to what ever the hell is going on with gas and electricity bills right now.

 

[MadMike]

Food waste in this country is pretty staggering, supermarkets, restaurants, cafes etc - all throw tons of food away because they're not allowed to (their bosses don't want to) give it away for free. Likewise food banks can't accept food that isn't packaged properly or has been cooked because they can't account for its safety.
By doing this they're causing two problems at once, all in order to prop up capitalism & profits - its staggering.

The bolded is kinda necessary to ensure safety and not fuelled by greed though, no? Feels unfair to pick at that one.

 

[villain]

The bolded is kinda necessary to ensure safety and not fuelled by greed though, no? Feels unfair to pick at that one.

Nah i'm not suggesting it is fuelled by greed, but I do think there can be a way to still decrease food wastage while still adhering to health & safety, surely?
I don't know what that solution would look like, but I also don't think the current process is sustainable either.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I genuinely just do not understand it. I don't understand the income levels/expenses people are racking up to the point that children are actually starving. Not suffering from malnutrition, as basically all of us are, but starving, which seems to be doing the rounds a lot in the press. I've never seen it myself. I don't want to write it off because of course I've never experienced it. Last year people seemed to be of the opinion that its an actual epidemic that is happening in huge numbers?!

I presume parents with significant drug habits would be the biggest cause of hungry kids. And there’s a hell of a lot of them about. I wouldn’t judge them either. If life is a total grind you can see the appeal.

 

[Pexbo]

I think this is an elephant in the room that people don't dare talk about. There is no fecking way 5 million people genuinely cannot afford food in this country.

Benefits in the UK are capped at 260 quid a week per person. That should be enough to live on if you use it properly. It's the 'if you use it properly' that needs to be focused on as much as simply asking for more money.

Is that £260 expected to cover all bills?

Rent
Energy
Council Tax
Food
Other essential groceries (personal hygiene and household upkeep)
Clothes

 

[Jericholyte2]

I presume parents with significant drug habits would be the biggest cause of hungry kids. And there’s a hell of a lot of them about. I wouldn’t judge them either. If life is a total grind you can see the appeal.

Not sure if you're being serious here...

I genuinely just do not understand it. I don't understand the income levels/expenses people are racking up to the point that children are actually starving. Not suffering from malnutrition, as basically all of us are, but starving, which seems to be doing the rounds a lot in the press. I've never seen it myself. I don't want to write it off because of course I've never experienced it. Last year people seemed to be of the opinion that its an actual epidemic that is happening in huge numbers?!

I'd heard an example of a man earning £25,000pa in a full time job. At the 1250L tax code that comes to about £1500pcm.
- The rent on his two bed house increases annually and is currently at £900pm
- Council Tax is about £200pm
- Gas & electric, given the surge, is about £100pm
- He has to drive to and from work as it's cheaper, petrol comes at about £100pm
- Then add in the smaller things, car insurance etc.

That leaves you with, for the sake of a round figure, £100pm for four weeks of groceries including toiletries, cleaning products and food for 84 meals. I'm aware that there will be things like UC and child benefits etc but often earning £25k would put you over any claimable threshold.

 

[Klopper76]

Food bank use has been increasing year on year in the UK. Some of these people are working two jobs and still have to resort to that to feed themselves. It's probably not limited to the UK but 2022 is going to be a hard year for a lot of people with inflation and energy prices going up.

There's a lot of poverty and homelessness in Canada. A majority of working Canadians live paycheck to paycheck with no room to save. Don't even get me started on house prices here.

 

[hungrywing]

Not sure if you're being serious here...



I'd heard an example of a man earning £25,000pa in a full time job. At the 1250L tax code that comes to about £1500pcm.
- The rent on his two bed house increases annually and is currently at £900pm
- Council Tax is about £200pm
- Gas & electric, given the surge, is about £100pm
- He has to drive to and from work as it's cheaper, petrol comes at about £100pm
- Then add in the smaller things, car insurance etc.

That leaves you with, for the sake of a round figure, £100pm for four weeks of groceries including toiletries, cleaning products and food for 84 meals. I'm aware that there will be things like UC and child benefits etc but often earning £25k would put you over any claimable threshold.

We might have a winner.

One will also notice that certain people haven't read the twitter thread where the lady explains how the price increases affect the 'lowest price' items - 'the stuff poor people will be buying' - disproportionately.

Food bank use has been increasing year on year in the UK. Some of these people are working two jobs and still have to resort to that to feed themselves. It's probably not limited to the UK but 2022 is going to be a hard year for a lot of people with inflation and energy prices going up.

There's a lot of poverty and homelessness in Canada. A majority of working Canadians live paycheck to paycheck with no room to save. Don't even get me started on house prices here.

See?

Again, this is a global issue brought on by the reasons posted above. And again, it is overwhelmingly reported as a 'local' issue. The dual income thing is a very welcome mention; there are many situations where the mother is too tired to cook, or simply not there to do so and the child eats 'instant' meals and thus falls into the 'food poverty' category.

 

[F-Red]

One will also notice that certain people haven't read the twitter thread where the lady explains how the price increases affect the 'lowest price' items - 'the stuff poor people will be buying' - disproportionately.

From what I can see within my own sector, but comparable in transportation of the food market, is the cost of transportation has risen - whether that be fuel prices, or a lack of capacity to meet demand within the freight networks. Commercially the supermarkets aren't sitting around a room and working out how they can increase prices to affect poor people, that discussion just simply doesn't happen. The products at the lowest prices will usually carry the lowest cash profit with them as well, as soon as something like transportation changes it will cause a considerable jump in that price to get them here and absorbing it is near on impossible to make without making a loss. As a guide, we've seen transport costs increase significantly compared to pre-covid.

It's a bit of a subtle point to help her argument of the comparison. Broadly speaking, the commerciality of those meal deals will have massive margin built into them, which is why they can hold their price, even with a change in the dynamics of the costs. The grand scheme of things is that they don't really contribute massively to the overall sales mix, compared to some of the more staple lines within their categories.

 

[hungrywing]

From what I can see within my own sector, but comparable in transportation of the food market, is the cost of transportation has risen - whether that be fuel prices, or a lack of capacity to meet demand within the freight networks. Commercially the supermarkets aren't sitting around a room and working out how they can increase prices to affect poor people, that discussion just simply doesn't happen. The products at the lowest prices will usually carry the lowest cash profit with them as well, as soon as something like transportation changes it will cause a considerable jump in that price to get them here and absorbing it is near on impossible to make without making a loss. As a guide, we've seen transport costs increase significantly compared to pre-covid.

It's a bit of a subtle point to help her argument of the comparison. Broadly speaking, the commerciality of those meal deals will have massive margin built into them, which is why they can hold their price, even with a change in the dynamics of the costs. The grand scheme of things is that they don't really contribute massively to the overall sales mix, compared to some of the more staple lines within their categories.

Not quite sure exactly how to respond as all this is sort of arguing for the sake of arguing and stating things that have already been covered/implied.

Yes. The supply chain issue plays a part, but again is a consequence of the earlier mentioned mechanism. (posted the supply chain thing in the 'help, my shoe is broken and my foot is falling off' thread.)

Bolded part does happen. Again, it's a result of 'optimizing' for maximum profit. It's of course not that they're 'out to get poor people' - no one ever said that; it's a by-product of a cross-sector war to try and out-compute everyone and shave costs and maximize certain metrics.

The meal deals 'having a massive margin built in', I'm going to refer again to the loss leader link. Everyone understands that 'they don't really contribute massively to the overall sales mix' and all that.

 

[11101]

Is that £260 expected to cover all bills?

Rent
Energy
Council Tax
Food
Other essential groceries (personal hygiene and household upkeep)
Clothes

Rent, energy bills and council tax can all be heavily discounted or in some cases free if you are on benefits.

 

[F-Red]

Not quite sure exactly how to respond as all this is sort of arguing for the sake of arguing and stating things that have already been covered/implied.

I was responding about the 'lady' and people not reading the thread, my comments were more about her thread than yours. I'm not arguing, just giving some viewpoints from my work experience in the FMCG field.

Yes. The supply chain issue plays a part, but again is a consequence of the earlier mentioned mechanism. (posted the supply chain thing in the 'help, my shoe is broken and my foot is falling off' thread.)

It's simply all down to supply chain at the moment. In my industry I was paying $1500 for a 40ft container prior to covid, I'm now paying nearly $18,000. The cost of moving goods has risen exponentially. That is where the price increases are coming from. This is even before Brexit kicks in and specific focus on the food supply chain begins to be scrutinised.

The meal deals 'having a massive margin built in', I'm going to refer again to the loss leader link. Everyone understands that 'they don't really contribute massively to the overall sales mix' and all that.

The focus on the arbitrary figure of £7.50 is a bit of a smokescreen. The price may stay the same, but I'm pretty sure the contents of what is given for that £7.50 have changed dramatically. In quality, and in size. They won't be losing money on this type of thing as these typically do not drive footfall for additional purchases.

 

[Trequarista10]

I genuinely don't understand how this happens when I'm buying tins of newgate beans in lidl for 20c

Seriously can someone give a financial breakdown of how you could possibly be starving on minimum wage/benefits in UK? I've been on benefits in Ireland at times and never come close, nor seen anyone come close, to actual starvation situation. how does it happen?

When I was briefly on benefits a few years ago, the benefits total was less than my rent and bills before food. This was living in a run down 1 bed flat.

 

[Pexbo]

Rent, energy bills and council tax can all be heavily discounted or in some cases free if you are on benefits.

Ok so it’s not including them.

 

[yumtum]

Not sure if you're being serious here...



I'd heard an example of a man earning 1.£25,000pa in a full time job. At the 1250L tax code that comes to about £1500pcm.
2.- The rent on his two bed house increases annually and is currently at £900pm
3.- Council Tax is about £200pm
4.- Gas & electric, given the surge, is about £100pm
5.- He has to drive to and from work as it's cheaper, petrol comes at about £100pm
6.- Then add in the smaller things, car insurance etc.

That leaves you with, for the sake of a round figure, £100pm for four weeks of groceries including toiletries, cleaning products and food for 84 meals. I'm aware that there will be things like UC and child benefits etc but often earning £25k would put you over any claimable threshold.

The man in your example clearly isn't a good enough human:

1. Go back to school to get a better paying job.
2. Rent a studio apartment.
3. Council tax on a studio apartment will mean cheaper council tax.
4. Smaller home means less electric and gas, also just buy a jumper.
5. Start cycling to work, be less fat and saves money.
6. No insurance on a bike.

Easy peasy, peasants just have to compromise.

On a more serious note, poor people are expected to just exist, apparently buying a TV is frowned upon (someone's mentioned it in this thread already - not having a dig) they should just sit in a cold room and be happy with the scraps they're given.

 

[Jericholyte2]

The man in your example clearly isn't a good enough human:

1. Go back to school to get a better paying job.
2. Rent a studio apartment.
3. Council tax on a studio apartment will mean cheaper council tax.
4. Smaller home means less electric and gas, also just buy a jumper.
5. Start cycling to work, be less fat and saves money.
6. No insurance on a bike.

Easy peasy, peasants just have to compromise.

On a more serious note, poor people are expected to just exist, apparently buying a TV is frowned upon (someone's mentioned it in this thread already - not having a dig) they should just sit in a cold room and be happy with the scraps they're given.

This is 100% true. The dominant view seem to forget that poor people can also work full time, and that poverty is a life sentence to subsistence, rather than living.

Apparently forking your ass off in a full-time job, with an exploitative employer, means you’re not good enough to have any leisure time.

 

[hungrywing]

I was responding about the 'lady' and people not reading the thread, my comments were more about her thread than yours. I'm not arguing, just giving some viewpoints from my work experience in the FMCG field.

Yeah. The post you initially responded to was directed towards certain people clearly posting without having read the thrust of her thread, which wasn't poor people are getting shafted, but a very specific 'poor people are getting disproportionately shafted by this much'.

It's simply all down to supply chain at the moment. In my industry I was paying $1500 for a 40ft container prior to covid, I'm now paying nearly $18,000. The cost of moving goods has risen exponentially. That is where the price increases are coming from. This is even before Brexit kicks in and specific focus on the food supply chain begins to be scrutinised.

Supply chain's a function of that larger mechanism described earlier (I posted about it in the 'help my foot's falling off' thread) But either way, the food-prices-disproportionately-affecting-the-poor issue predates it; it's been happening since around 2004-ish.

If anything I'd like to underscore the pain/stress you may be under. There are fairly well-off entities all over the world threatened by the container price thing. Best wishes regarding that.

The focus on the arbitrary figure of £7.50 is a bit of a smokescreen. The price may stay the same, but I'm pretty sure the contents of what is given for that £7.50 have changed dramatically. In quality, and in size. They won't be losing money on this type of thing as these typically do not drive footfall for additional purchases.

Hrm. The workings of loss-leaders are pretty well known.... I mean, it's why Costco's dirt-cheap rotisserie chickens are all the way at the back of the store and the concessions/food is behind the checkout registers.

I can absolutely imagine a scenario where Tesco (for example) has internal numbers on how many people buy a 7.50 meal within their total purchase and their purchase profile vs internal numbers on 'poor people shopping profiles' and being able to crunch numbers and realize - among other things - that the latter NEED to keep shopping along that profile but the former could exercise some mobility should there be a price increase...

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Is that £260 expected to cover all bills?

Rent
Energy
Council Tax
Food
Other essential groceries (personal hygiene and household upkeep)
Clothes

feck knows what you'd need to qualify for that 260 quid. Also, the significant delays and hostile environment of our social security net under Universal Credit.

Edit: I know @Jippy was joking regarding the TV reference but in before someone says something about flat screen TVs. Where exactly would you get a cathode ray TV instead these days? It'd need to made especially and would cost a fortune.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

I presume parents with significant drug habits would be the biggest cause of hungry kids. And there’s a hell of a lot of them about. I wouldn’t judge them either. If life is a total grind you can see the appeal.

I need to ask: was this a serious post?

 

[AgentSmith]

Nah i'm not suggesting it is fuelled by greed, but I do think there can be a way to still decrease food wastage while still adhering to health & safety, surely?
I don't know what that solution would look like, but I also don't think the current process is sustainable either.

I work for a food redistribution charity whose primary function is this exact idea. We have relationships with Ocado, Sainsbury’s, Waitrose etc. that enable us to go and collect the surplus food they have and then distribute it out to smaller food banks/charities. But without this pre-established dynamic, based on our adherence to food hygiene regulations, we would not be allowed to take their stock. The onus is also on us to go and collect it from most of these supermarkets. If we don’t have a van (or driver) available to go and pick it up, it will likely go to waste.

It would be great if there was more willingness from the supermarkets to redistribute (and equally importantly, deliver) their waste because there is literally millions of tonnes of it produced every year, but the red tape they're subject to must be endless so it’s not necessarily their fault.

It’s the lack of structure in place for the proper redistribution of this surplus that exacerbates the problem, not a lack of food.

 

[Deery]

I think the big worry at the minute for a lot of people is the rise in gas and electricity, it’s risen 30% on 1st January and set to rise again in July, with some suggesting it will cost £400 a year more so forcing people into a heat or eat situation.

didn’t read the thread so sorry if already mentioned.

 

[horsechoker]

I think the big worry at the minute for a lot of people is the rise in gas and electricity, it’s risen 30% on 1st January and set to rise again in July, with some suggesting it will cost £400 a year more so forcing people into a heat or eat situation.

didn’t read the thread so sorry if already mentioned.

We'll be cooking on campfires then

 

[Deery]

We'll be cooking on campfires then

If you’re lucky enough to afford a tent.

 

[0le]

Regarding broken packages needing to be thrown out due to health and safety: When I visited Morrisons the other day they appeared to have packaged food bank parcels for sale instead.