UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

[VeevaVee]

I'm actually quite surprised that my Dad and his mrs haven't voted for the guy that's actually changed his name to Mark Brexit-Smith.
You know something's wrong when that pleasantly surprises you. Also a sorry state of affairs that people will have voted for him. We should probably take their ability to vote away.

 

[Grinner]

Can they not just get industry experts, financial experts, economists etc. to scrutinise these two?

Cute and wholesome as it is getting average Joe to ask the questions, your average Joe knows feck all.

Sick of experts

 

[esmufc07]

I'm actually quite surprised that my Dad and his mrs haven't voted for the guy that's actually changed his name to Mark Brexit-Smith.
You know something's wrong when that pleasantly surprises you. Also a sorry state of affairs that people will have voted for him. We should probably take their ability to vote away.

Do you parents live in Chorley? I’ve got a mate who lives there who got those leaflets from Mark Brexit Smith

 

[ThierryHenry]

It seems bizarre that Nick Robinson is pushing Boris on his lies more than Corbyn is.

I'm not sure I can watch this either, everything is dire; the two candidates, the format, the questions, the answers, the weird stage set up.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

Corbyn not denying his support for the IRA

 

[Fully Fledged]

Bad start for Jez, fidgeting with his glasses as the cameras started rolling.

Because that means that he can't run a country unless he looks pretty. We need a photogenic PM.

 

[Grinner]

This is terrible. It's just the same noise over and over. You are all so fecked and you deserve it.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

At least they're not shouting over each other

 

[VeevaVee]

Do you parents live in Chorley? I’ve got a mate who lives there who got those leaflets from Mark Brexit Smith

Both my dad and my mum live in the Borough of Chorley, which covers a pretty large area. I just leave myself registered to vote at my dad's so I got him as a choice too. Thankfully we get no Tory cnuts because we have the speaker as our MP, so the only other option is Green.

 

[Grinner]

It's shit or bust, Jez. You've got to call this cnut a liar to his face.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

This is terrible. It's just the same noise over and over. You are all so fecked and you deserve it.

Haven’t you moved to Italy? The European home of political chaos!

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

It's shit or bust, Jez. You've got to call this cnut a liar to his face.

seems restrained

 

[Grinner]

Haven’t you moved to Italy? The European home of political chaos!

Doesn't mean I want to see the UK go down the toilet.

 

[VeevaVee]

Someone should throw that Tory clapper in the canal

 

[sammsky1]

It's shit or bust, Jez. You've got to call this cnut a liar to his face.

Yep. It’s what I stated yesterday. But he’s already blown his chance. Corbyn had to start on a brutal offensive and exposenBJ but he hasn’t.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

Boris getting a few more claps

 

[Cheesy]

I'm unsure how much Corbyn's NHS attacks are sticking here. For as much as Labour have got a fair point that plenty of Tories would/will/are decimating the NHS when they get the chance, it's an attack-line against the Tories that's so old and so regularly used you get the impression it's perhaps lost some of its power. And I'm not sure the US trade negotiation stuff is really resonating with the public all that much.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Corbyn not denying his support for the IRA

He's saying that talking to them brought 20 years of piece. I'd rather a pragmatist that will talk to terrorists to end violence rather than someone who wont talk to terrorists so doesn't see the end of violence.

 

[VeevaVee]

Boris getting a few more claps

They shouldn't be allowed an audience. The claps are meaningless because it may be that they get some gung ho clappers in on one side, but that might actually influence people, especially as we know how easily people are influenced.

 

[RedSky]

I'm unsure how much Corbyn's NHS attacks are sticking here. For as much as Labour have got a fair point that plenty of Tories would/will/are decimating the NHS when they get the chance, it's an attack-line against the Tories that's so old and so regularly used you get the impression it's perhaps lost some of its power. And I'm not sure the US trade negotiation stuff is really resonating with the public all that much.

It really should be, Brexit is the distraction this time round. It's the NHS's future that will be decided upon in this election imo.

 

[VeevaVee]

The billionaire point that Jeremy keeps mentioning recently is a valid one, but I don't think it lands with anyone. Too many people seem to not care, or very strangely - actively stick up for them

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

It feels a bit autopilot with Corbyn

 

[esmufc07]

Corbyn has been shite.

 

[Sassy Colin]

This is actually better than I thought it would be.

I think, so far, Johnson is shading it.

 

[VeevaVee]

Corbyn has been shite.

He's not been electric but does that matter? It's not X Factor.

 

[F-Red]

He's not been electric but does that matter? It's not X Factor.

It does matter, it's a leadership debate. There's people out there undecided and some will make decisions based on what they're seeing.

On this showing, both of them are useless.

 

[VeevaVee]

It does matter, it's a leadership debate. There's people out there undecided and some will make decisions based on what they're seeing.

On this showing, both of them are useless.

Useless at debating perhaps, or at least turning into something of a bout, which I'd rather not have. I'd rather they just answered the questions personally.
Those undecided should decide on what they stand for.

 

[Cheesy]

It feels a bit autopilot with Corbyn

Indeed. It's very weird. His message is fundamentally correct in many respects but just isn't really coming across in a way that's particularly strong. Maybe his message just feels a bit...obvious? Most people agree that poverty and inequality are, broadly speaking, very bad, but you've got to be able to sell people on the policies you're putting forward to alleviate those measures.

 

[F-Red]

Useless at debating perhaps, or at least turning into something of a bout, which I'd rather not have. I'd rather they just answered the questions personally.
Those undecided should decide on what they stand for.

No, they're useless at being leaders. They're both weak.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Indeed. It's very weird. His message is fundamentally correct in many respects but just isn't really coming across in a way that's particularly strong. Maybe his message just feels a bit...obvious? Most people agree that poverty and inequality are, broadly speaking, very bad, but you've got to be able to sell people on the policies you're putting forward to alleviate those measures.

Except that people actively vote against stopping those things by voting Conservative. So while it might be obvious that those things are bad. Most people don’t genuinely give a damn.

 

[VeevaVee]

No, they're useless at being leaders. They're both weak.

No, that doesn't make them useless as leaders or weak. You want someone good at rousing a crowd. I want someone that looks out for us.

 

[EwanI Ted]

I disagree with the criticism. As someone who in the next 5 years may well invest a mid 6 figure sum in starting a business it would certainly put me off making that investment in favour of sticking with where I am.

This relief has contributed to several working class entrepreneurs that I know being able to have a solid and secure retirement.

Disincentivising something that is great for the economy, great for job creation, great for innovation and is also something incredibly risky for the individual in my view is stupid.

I'd have no issue increasing the share requirement from 5% to maybe 10-15% which would stamp out many speculators.

/Edit: it's also comparatively inexpensive at around 0.1% of GDP and in my view it more than generates its own revenue through greater investment

Research shows very little evidence of this relief incentivizing activity. Research commissioned by HMRC showed that just 8% of respondents who claimed the relief were influenced by it at the point of investment (page 24).

https://assets.publishing.service.g...t_data/file/663877/HMRC_Report_456_CGT_ER.pdf

And the OTS found " ... no evidence that Entrepreneurs’ Relief encourages further investment in new business ventures." Page 41.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...99972/OTS_Business_Lifecycle_report_final.pdf

 

[Cheesy]

Except that people actively vote against stopping those things by voting Conservative. So while it might be obvious that those things are bad. Most people don’t genuinely give a damn.

If you believe in Corbyn's agenda or believe in a Corbyn-led government, then you've got to hold some sort of hope that there's a general decency to the public and that they're willing to elect someone who wants to alleviate poverty and reduce inequality. Otherwise there's not really any point.

Broadly speaking, a lot of Corbyn's policies are popular. People want to see the NHS properly maintained and value it. In many cases they're broadly in favour of public spending and like the idea of, say, nationalised broadband. But people liking those policies and actually being sold on someone being able to implement them in a way which will work for the country is another matter. A lot of people just don't seem to buy Corbyn as someone who will improve the country, and at this point his arguments feel like they're presented in a way that's fairly repetitive and unimaginative. I dunno, there just seems to be a lot less enthusiasm to him compared to 2017.

 

[Redlambs]

He's not been electric but does that matter? It's not X Factor.

The problem is, if we want Labour to win they have to play the game and get in first before changing anything.

It's all well and good wishing they'd just answer the questions, then do their job, but that's not how it works.

Does it suck? Yes. But I'd rather a leader who will win and then worry about it, then one who loses and we can all say "oh well at least he kept the highground" whilst the tories are busy fecking everyone harder.

 

[ThierryHenry]

I think I was overly harsh on this debate. It's actually been fairly engaging, and has managed to show the clear differences between the two parties. Definitely better than the others we've had in this campaign, Nick Robinson has been pretty good at asking direct questions.

Indeed. It's very weird. His message is fundamentally correct in many respects but just isn't really coming across in a way that's particularly strong. Maybe his message just feels a bit...obvious? Most people agree that poverty and inequality are, broadly speaking, very bad, but you've got to be able to sell people on the policies you're putting forward to alleviate those measures.

I've found that throughout this campaign - he just seems to have lacked the energy he had in 2017. Not sure if he's been weighed down by talking about areas he hates - anti-semitism and Brexit.

 

[GDaly95]

Why does Corbyn just seem like he's holding back? Even with all the ammunition he has on Johnson's failings and past comments?

You just want to give the guy a shake and tell him to get stuck in.

 

[F-Red]

No, that doesn't make them useless as leaders or weak. You want someone good at rousing a crowd. I want someone that looks out for us.

It's not a crowd rousing type event, this broadcast never has been. Trust me, i'm not making my judgement based on tonight, but on the last 2-3 years. There's no politician that looks out for 'us'.

 

[VeevaVee]

The problem is, if we want Labour to win they have to play the game and get in first before changing anything.

It's all well and good wishing they'd just answer the questions, then do their job, but that's not how it works.

Does it suck? Yes. But I'd rather a leader who will win and then worry about it, then one who loses and we can all say "oh well at least he kept the highground" whilst the tories are busy fecking everyone harder.

I agree that they may need to unfortunately, but I don't agree it makes him a crap candidate for doing the job. People should be able to make their mind up without needing a Hitler level speech though.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Indeed. It's very weird. His message is fundamentally correct in many respects but just isn't really coming across in a way that's particularly strong. Maybe his message just feels a bit...obvious? Most people agree that poverty and inequality are, broadly speaking, very bad, but you've got to be able to sell people on the policies you're putting forward to alleviate those measures.

It’s called charisma and he’s completely devoid of it.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

Get Brexit Done