Yeah. That's the totality of that manifesto.
I was talking about the 18% of over 65s who voted for Labour in this election. I mean, great props to you for wanting to give your wealth away to the people rather than your kids, but I'm fairly certain you are a rare case. There's politics and there's family and family comes first for many.
Not often I agree with Jones but he’s right here. Labour had lost both Leave and Remain support in large numbers by the summer.
Todays yoof, says it all. I am glad they got brexit. Cnuts
Agreed, I think they were snookered. If they backed leave there’s no way they’d eat votes from tories or brexit party.
They should have backed May's deal as it would have kept a weak minority government and leader in power and caused internal war in the Tory party between the ERG and moderates. They would have protected worker's rights and been in a great position to win power in 2020.
I think where they ended up was the worst of both worlds personally, but irrespective of which position was best, he certainly failed in his attempts to convince people. Externally, it was like like he took the view that the Brexit political landscape was immovable, and all Labour could do was to find the least painful position.
From a Westminster perspective, this would have put the issue to bed sooner for sure, but don't underestimate what an impact it would have had internally. Jeremy Corbyn getting in bed with the Tories so they could lead the UK out of the EU together? That could have destroyed the party.
Really, how so? The opposition 'get into bed' with the government on many issues. The Labour party was supposedly a Leave party at that point. Corbyn's Labour were happy to prolonged the uncertainty and chaos in the vain and erroneous belief they could force and election and get the Tories out and somehow negotiate a better deal.
And now instead of being humbled and looking at real change, they are doubling down in their arrogance.
You're right, I think it is to get a more favourable coverage.
I reckon Trump has been giving him a masterclass.
There's that and also if they start pointing the finger at the media it makes people think that both sides have equal cause for complaint when this is clearly not the case.
The Tories have been strong arming the BBC well before Trump.
Good point.
Its very concerning. Cameron did the same. It looks like Boris will put Cameron's man John Whittingdale back in the Sport, Culture and Media post. He's a critic of the license fee.
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This isnt a normal issue though, its the most polarising issue of a generation, not a tweak to planning regulations. Besides you're looking at it from the future, as it were, knowing what came next. If Remainers had known back then that failing to vote for May's deal would lead to an even harder Brexit & an election catastrophe, of course they'd have wanted Labour to vote for May's deal. But they didn't know that then, so how could that possibly influence their thinking? Simple fact is that voting for May's deal would have outraged Remain supporters who at the time felt that the outcome was still open to be changed. Had Labour pushed through Brexit at a time when they were riding high in the polls and watching the Tories fall apart, they'd have taken as much blame as the Tories did.
A lot more Labour voters from 2017 either voted for LD/Green or stayed away than voted Tories. Very interesting and thanks for sharing.
I said it the other day, all this "feck off and vote Tory" shit just alienated so many people who Labour really needed onside.
True. Same goes for Brexit and remain/leave. Added fuel to the fire.
I strongly believe had Remain won in 2016 Corbyn would be in pole position to beat David Cameron's anointed successor in 2020. Brexit changed the timeline and political landscape completely and we might never recover.
The cultural separation of middle class city dwelling Labour voters and those in working class midlands/northern towns predates Brexit and Corbyn and has been going on since long before 2015. Indeed it was always a pairing based on a common cause rather than shared values. Corbyn accelerated that separation, and Brexit was the cleaver that finally separated them, but I'm not convinced that everything was okay beforehand. Insofar as many leave voters saw it as a way of pushing back against what they saw as a London elite who didn't understand them, you might even argue that its one part of the Labour movement rebelling against another. So if Brexit hadn't happened then the traditional coalition might have carried on for a bit longer, but a reckoning would have arrived eventually. So I'm not totally convinced that Corbyn would have avoided the issues he's faced here, it may just have materialised in a different way.
That's really interesting, thanks.
Good point. Their traditional heartlands were never enough to continually win elections in the first place, something that will be easily forgotten in coming months. Whatever thinking Labour does on this topic, it has to consider how to constantly win elections, not just win back the seats it lost this time round. Winning back enough votes to get to the ~250 seat mark cannot be the extent of their strategy.
Maybe people say you're arrogant / superior because getting exasperated and metaphorically banging your head against the wall is an arrogant / superior action in response to someone seeing things differently to yourself.
She was told by one editor to avoid directly naming the PM, in the other paper she found her columns slightly edited after sending.
What would Labour have done? Get rid of zero hours contracts (and his job) and increase the minimum wage to below the level of the tories and also increase taxes. Which workers rights have been eroded specifically?
There certainly are, this is the fundamental mistake Labour has been making for many years, people now don't vote according to their 'class', neither do they vote for the benefit of others, they vote for themselves, at least the majority do. Its not what the Government does for my 'class' its what it will do that affects me as an individual that persuades them where to put their 'X'.
