United's biggest problem - Our spoiled and overly entitled fan base

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Wumminator, Jun 29, 2019.

  1. Jul 8, 2019

    Shark @NotShark

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    Yes but this is what I mean, positivity cannot always be tied to sensibility. Pogba is probably our best player, so selling him probably isn’t in our best interest if we actually want to build a team that’s capable of competing with the best. Focusing on youth? I’m all for youth but imo this isn’t the summer to do that, you focus on youth when you already have a functioning team with leaders that are winning major trophies. What we needed is two or three world class talents or at least on the cusp, with the right personality and attitude. Liverpool signed Salah and Mane to enhance their attack, we’ve so far signed one championship winger and Lingard, Mata and Martial still hanging around without a worry in the world when they simply haven’t delivered for years. Ole is still to win me over tbh, I’m not going to blindly pretend that everything is going to be ok when our final game last season had us losing 0-2 to a relegated side, at home. Trust needs to be earned, being a legend of the club on the pitch has little to do with his ability as a manager.
  2. Jul 8, 2019

    desirere New Member

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    I think you missed a trick there or white text missing xD There is literally not a worse situation at any club in the footballing World in that regard. Maybe some NBA or NFL teams... but just maybe...
  3. Jul 10, 2019

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    :drool:

    I like to imagine someone reading the threads on the front page, getting to mine and just sighing a big sigh of relief.

    “It’s ok Ole, they aren’t all completely mental”
  4. Jul 10, 2019

    Saffron New Member

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    Yeah, Woodward and the Glazers. They probably can’t believe their luck having stumbled in to such a subservient and obedient fan base. They’ve overseen one of the most dramatic declines of a top team in sports history and we just continue to make excuses for them.

    The likes of Leeds seem worse on the surface but they were always a glass giant stretching their resources too thin. We were genuinely the biggest club in the world with the world’s highest revenue when they took over.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  5. Jul 10, 2019

    passing-wind Full Member

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    :lol: Solskjaer had better hope he's still in his job this time next year because if he fails top 4, the "disillusionment" will quantify his reality.
  6. Jul 11, 2019

    AllezLesDiables Full Member

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    The distortion campaign that is carrying on is hilarious.

    Yeah, it’s the fans fault that United is in a state of shite despite selling out every game at OT. What a load of bollocks.

    It’s not Woodward’s fault is the other hilarious distortion campaign being promoted on the boards as if the CEO title is a figurehead title and a DoF with autonomy is in place.

    How this club being run reminds of one my former employers, a Fortune 500 company, who ran their company like absolute shit with numerous scandals, which led the company to go from public to private.

    They were even spinning that going from a publicly traded company to a privately owned company was a good thing.

    The fans should be more outraged than they are at this moment. The owners are using this team as their own personal slush fund.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  7. Jul 12, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    I wouldn't say its exclusively the fans fault no, but they are certainly playing a massive part in the unrest and down fall of the side I think.

    From chants of "attack, attack, attack" at most games still on going, our supporters booing and abusing players like Fellaini and Pogba during matches and the latter receiving horrific abuse towards the end of the season last. Supporters chanting for Jose with LVG sat in the bench. Fellaini being booed coming on in a CL Qualifying match only to silence them with a goal.

    Supporters seem to think if they pay for a match ticket that gives them entitlement to be abusive, guess what folks...it doesn't.

    When Ole came in, we needed to draw a line in the sand and move on but unfortunately too many continued to use Mourinho's "blame anyone but me" philosophy and continued to constantly attack the players which has lead to some of the players becoming disenfranchised with the club. Pogba wasn't asking for moves prior to the abuse from fans but he sure as hell is now.

    I want players committed to the club like any supporter but a part of me as well doesn't blame him for wanting out if supporters spend years giving him abuse every game.

    No doubt I'll get a flurry of replies now saying Real wouldn't stand for this, but the same people who'd say this will also run to a thread about Reals supporters and say they are scum for how they treat their players :rolleyes:
  8. Jul 12, 2019

    romufc Full Member

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    The fans chant attack attack attack when the team is 0-0 at home to Cardiff with 2 shots on goal. It is like paying a top end builder top dollar only to do a cowboy's job? I am sure you wont be happy with that?

    So you think the only reason Pogba is asking for a move is because of a handful of supporters abusing him on the final day of the season? you truly are deluded.

    Pogba is a huge talent with a money hungry agent who only cares about his bonus. We paid our record fee for Pogba, with great wages, you expect him to lead the team against the Huddersfield and Cardiff's, drag the team, not moan and throw his hands in the air mid game.
  9. Jul 12, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    It's a self entitled attitude, we support through good and bad. No one was happy with losing to Cardiff, it was a new low. Don't we praise our away supporters for constantly singing even during loss?

    Where did I say "only reason", just that if it was part of the reason for him possibly wanting out. Hardly entices him to stay with supporters spitting venom at him.
  10. Jul 12, 2019

    MUFC OK Full Member

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    Its certainly not our biggest problem when you consider that we are one of the most profitable and biggest clubs in the world with revenue in the top 3 but we have owners who have leeched over £1bn from our club and regularly pay themselves dividends whilst shifting their debt onto the club.

    We were essentially the Bayern, Real Madrid, Juventus (top team in their respective country) and have been allowed to fall due to this neglect. When these team have a bli or a bad season, which they all do, they ruthlessly reinvigorate their squads, we do not. could you imagine these teams failing to qualify for the CL, even once? Milan are the only comparable case and they have never had the financial clout that we do.

    So yes, we do have spoilt and entitled fans in the scheme of things but no more so than any of the worlds biggest clubs, yet weve had it much worse in recent times so have the right to feel aggrieved I would say.
  11. Jul 12, 2019

    romufc Full Member

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    Most teams have great away support, don't get carried away as if we have the greatest away support.. teams at the bottom of the league come to OT with away support and sing even when losing 4/5- 0.

    That statement says oh he has changed his mind because of abuse? Seriously? If you cannot take criticism with the wages, support when he gets when he is on form?

    So i guess you are happy for us to finish 6th year in year out and shout out about it and support the players and the team and congratulate them for finishing 6th.. This is Manutd, you are paid the best wages, have the best facilities to win.
  12. Jul 12, 2019

    VanGaalyTime Full Member

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    Horrific abuse? Ha! Yes there were some boos for Fellaini. And Pogba had an argument with 3 fans at the end of a game but the vast majority of our fans somehow put up with what these guys did on the field. We're talking about footballers being made millions per year to kick a ball. While Fellaini tried he wasn't good enough. And he made the same mistakes often. Many felt he simply wasn't trying to improve. Pogba gets abuse because he rarely plays to his potential. I think fans have a right to express their opinions. Most will give their full support to players that try even a little bit during games. If players can't take the feedback they should try not accepting hundreds of thousands of dollars per week playing professional sports.
  13. Jul 12, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    Weather it's 3 or 1, what does it matter? Your justifying abusive conduct towards players.

    Buying a match ticket doesn't give you that entitlement
  14. Jul 12, 2019

    hobbers Full Member

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    The bolded do not constitute abuse in the sense you're presenting. And if you really think 'attack attack attack' or a bit of generalised booing after a defeat is monstrously abusive you seriously need to grow a spine. Booing a player who's only just getting subbed on is a shit thing to do, granted, and a couple of fans shouting targeted abuse at Pogba at the end of one match was wrong, but that was still an isolated incident.

    More generally, buying a ticket to a football match absolutely gives you an entitlement to boo. If the players aren't even fecking trying a la the Everton or Cardiff defeats what right do they have to walk off to applause from the people paying their wages?

    Secondly the fans have played absolutely zero part in Pogba's desire to leave, that's totally fecking obvious. Maybe the media and pundits have played a part given their almost relentless (but often justified) criticism, but still the overwhelming reasons he wants to leave are for more chances at titles, more money and more of a platform for him to grow his brand.

    Don't compare United's treatment of players with Real's. Real fans target individual players, in the middle of games, who have won them trophies. In Bale and Casillas and Ronaldo's cases players who have sacrificed it all to at times carry the team to titles. Some of the fans turn up at the training ground and physically threaten violence. There is no comparison with United fans.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  15. Jul 12, 2019

    VanGaalyTime Full Member

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    The players wouldn't even be playing for the club if it wasn't for the fans. United fans pay a high price for tickets and should be able to express their opinions as long as they aren't offensive or violent. Booing is fine. As is yelling at players.
  16. Jul 12, 2019

    RedNed77 Full Member

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    I agree that our fanbase can be overly entitled but you have gone completely overboard and picked entirely the wrong targets. The original OP is implying we are struggling to get back to where we were because of our fan base, either that or he thinks us being currently shit is less important than having some moaners (which is wow if that is the case). Assuming its the former being true rather than the latter would imply our fan base is moanier and more entitled than any other clubs fans. If you can name a club in the top 10 in europe who's fans would not have reacted the same as ours I'll give you the internet. Top end teams, mid table teams and relegation fodder will cry for "attack attack attack" if their club are playing stultifying football (you only need to look at Leicester and Saints fans when their teams were being managed by Puel) and will not give warm welcomes to players who they feel are stealing a living or not giving their all (Ozil as a prime example). As for some of the rest of the things you have said, some of them are just out righ fabrications. I have absolutely no recollection of Old Trafford singing Jose Mourinho's name whilst LvG was still in charge.

    Re your other point about the fans continuing to blame the players after the manager change? If we have had 4 different managers and we're still doing shit, you want us to keep firing managers without ever looking at the players?
  17. Jul 12, 2019

    blue blue Full Member

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    The fans are going through a period of adjustment as is the club. There will always be detractors but in a period where expectations are being challenged after a period of sustained success it is to be expected.

    From a footballing point of view the club hasn't quite worked out how to rebuild after SAF and are now trying a new approach. They have tried the big name managers and are now adopting a new approach much the same as my club.

    There is a changing of the guard as far as big name managers in the PL goes and SAF, Jose's, LVG, and Wengers departure opens the door for a new breed of manager to show their worth. How long Pep and Klopp will remain in place is debatable but I find it refreshing that young managers are being given a chance at a high level. The Chelsea fans at the moment are fully backing Lampard and Ole should be given more of a chance next season. It may be a slow learning curve and Utd can afford this more than Chelsea but there is a lot to be said for nurturing and growing a new team from scratch. The fans can feel a part of the growth and if youth can also be part of that development the more connected the fans will be with the team on the pitch.

    I can't help but feel most of the detractors ply their trade on forums such as this and that the real fans who go to the games see things in completely different way. A new team built from home grown talent, and dare I say British players, will get a much better relationship with the crowd. Yes there will always be a place for quality foreign players but I can't help but feel there needs to be a strong homegrown element. For me the English game is on the up and we are entering a new era when homegrown talent will become more influential and the fans won't be able to get enough.

    I would though wouldn't I.
  18. Jul 12, 2019

    sunama Baghdad Bob

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    It's actually quite shocking that managers are surprised when they get fired. When they failed to make top 4, they genuinely were surprised that they got fired. Moyes, LVG, Jose - all were surprised.
    Jose was the only one who kept his job when he failed to make top 4, but that was because he won 2 trophies and he had a huge reputation.
    Now, once again, Ole is falling into that false sense of security. If he fails to do a decent job, he will be fired. Absolutely no question about this. Woodward uses sackings as a way to protect his own arse.

    I'm actually looking forward to this season, because it will be interesting to see how Ole does and how patient Woodward will be with him. And if he does get fired during the coming season, who will be the next permanent manager. The other unknown is our transfers - when the window closes, how much money will we have spent.
    The next few months could be a roller coaster ride for all of us.
  19. Jul 12, 2019

    He'sRaldo Full Member

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    That doesn't make sense. The players have worked very hard to get to where they are, why should their success be attributed to random fans?
  20. Jul 12, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    With "support" like this who needs rivals to go against the club! ;)

    The attack chants come across as self entitled, its sport and there are no guarantees. Win, lose or draw we choose to part with funds to support the club and our role is to encourage and be that extra man for our team.

    Booing and undermining our own players is not what were supposed to do. It's counter productive to boo, jeer or give our own players a hard time.

    It's not really isolated incidents either when you factor in the levels of abuse they receive online through their social media profiles. This thread highlights this exact problem.

    The club tweeted happy birthday to Ashley Young and you've anything from "feck off and leave to club" to "sign Fernandes". There's probably worse than that but after the 100th or so tweet of this nature you give up all hope and stop reading them.
  21. Jul 12, 2019

    Sir Scott McToMinay New Member

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    I can’t see him getting the sack if we won’t make the top 4.
    I think he’ll be given time, unless something really catastrophic happens.
  22. Jul 12, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    If Ole get fired after failing to make top 4 then I am fully expecting him to say nothing and not try to defend his reputation at all. That's because the loudest fans are not the greatest or the best fans
  23. Jul 12, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    Barring an absolute disaster I agree with this. I can see Ole getting the next season as well.

    But I'm also confident we can get top 4 anyway looking at the absolute state that our rivals are in.
  24. Jul 14, 2019

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Sorry, but what in the actual name of feck are you prattling on about? There's a bloody good reason why numerous senior figures at Old Trafford, SAF, Sir Bobby Charlton, David Gill et al didn't want Jose fecking Mourinho anywhere near the club, and if you'd been in the wide awake club for the last 15 years or so you'd have known why that was, the very same reason that Liverpool(a club I hate with a fecking passion and then some, but I can still respect what they have achieved and how they did it)even when they were desperate to get back to winning ways, christ even Man. City, a club desperate to become a household name outside of friggin Moss Side and Stockport and the money to do it never once entertained the idea of appointing Jose Mourinho, and for good reason.

    Nothing personal, but you are a fecking idiot if you don't think Jose Mourinho being appointed Manchester United Manager was driven by spoilt little rich kids on social media.

    And on Ed Woodward, unlike most on here which is disturbing in itself, I don't feel the need to blame EW for everything that is going wrong at the club at the moment, but allowing himself to be swayed and going against the advice of folk(listed above)who only wanted what was best for the club was definitely on him. But saying that most of us, put in that situation would have gone against our better judgement and done the same, so I can't even hold that against him. In Ed we trust.
  25. Jul 14, 2019

    Cloud7 Full Member

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    Do you think they’re actually surprised when it happens or is it just keeping up appearances in public? I would assume the club make it clear that CL qualification is the bare minimum to keep your job.

    Even in the case of mid season sackings like Jose, I’m sure they have meetings with the manager before the actual act is done. Not necessarily the “crisis talks!!1!” that the media reports, but discussions about what’s going wrong, how they’re trying to fix it etc., to the point where by the time they are sacked, they probably know it’s coming.
  26. Jul 14, 2019

    Cloud7 Full Member

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    What matters most is the direction we’re going I think. If we seem like there’s a clear plan, a style of football we’re working towards and signs of development as a team, even if the results aren’t there, I think he’ll get the next season as well, unless we finish tenth or something.

    On the other hand, if we continue looking as bad as we did near the end of the season, I’m not sure he’ll even get the entire season.
  27. Jul 14, 2019

    DoomSlayer Full Member

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    I remember reading multiple reports that Mourinho was totally blindsided by the sack and he actually thought Woodward was calling him in to discuss the January transfer targets.

    Also, LVG found out he was being removed from the media and has been very sour towards our board because of that, highlighted in many of his interviews post-United.
  28. Jul 14, 2019

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Yep, the club should have given David Moyes, and LvG more time but they never listened to me and like minded folk, but eventually they will and will be better for it.

    It might be ridiculous in your world, BUT IT'S ALSO TRUE.

    Well yeah obviously, in his first year, not so much what he achieved(is that the right word?)in his 2nd or 3rd year.
  29. Jul 14, 2019

    Cloud7 Full Member

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    Vangle found out because Mendes and Mourinho’s camp leaked the stories to the media. Wasn’t that the way it went down? Again though, he would have known he failed to meet his minimum requirements, so his surprised could he really have been? It was just handled poorly.

    As for Jose, I don’t recall reading that, but if so that’s genuinely very surprising, and speaks volumes of his lack of self awareness. There were stories of him being sacked months prior, before Pogba and Martial bought him a stay of execution. The results and performances were awful and showed no signs of improvement.
  30. Jul 14, 2019

    DoomSlayer Full Member

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    My theory about Jose is that he thought the worst period had passed and no way could he be sacked at that point. But the embarrassing defeat to Liverpool could have been the last straw for Woodward and the board. I mean, we got totally demolished in that game.
  31. Jul 14, 2019

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    Best post I’ve seen in a long term. Exactly my sentiment on the club right now.
  32. Jul 14, 2019

    Denis79 Full Member

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    Spot on about how I feel right now. Excellent post that I believe embodies the sentiment of many fans at the moment.
  33. Jul 14, 2019

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    That list :lol:, the play the youth one I particular enjoyed. Every season it’s the same thing. I’m sure it will be Garner next as he scored against some Australian minnows in a friendly. Greenwood is the only one I have seen genuine quality from and he’s only 17. The others I will be amazed if they have a career at United.
  34. Aug 8, 2019

    ThinkTank@Cafe Full Member

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    English is not my first language, so I can’t fully express my thoughts.

    I’ve been reading the Caf for 15 years. I could find (and still find) a lot of unique content and have a good laugh.
    I decided to join the forum because United supporters who enjoy supporting the club have become outnumbered by “fans” who hate supporting the club.

    They feel obliged to do so. Obliged to suffer. Statistics, historical analogies, all sorts of metaphors, and comparisons dumped here to finally express well rationalized contempt to United. They hate everything about the club bar it’s past glory. But they “care” about the club, “blow whistles” or express their concern. We, who enjoy United, must respect their loyalty, a precious gift forged in the fire of genuine human’s suffering.

    How do I recognize them? They start by mentioning some “facht” and move on to expressing their emotions. “Loath”, “sick”, “fed up”, etc.

    They don’t hesitate to use pejorative adjectives towards the club consistently. They consistently belittle United and praise City and Liverpool. They are arrogant to other posters although don’t contribute anything technical. They like pretentious wording and emotional expressions. They attack you once found out immediately.

    Psychoanalysts don’t really follow what is reasoning one’s ego is using to justify his/her behavior, but concentrate on what what is literally said.

    Textual analysis of great chunk of posts here will show that a lot of “fans” here just hate to support United. Noble masochists. Doing what you don’t enjoy is a sign of a miserable life. Just stop.
  35. Aug 8, 2019

    He'sRaldo Full Member

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    Always enjoy your posts man. Another good one.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  36. Aug 8, 2019

    Nytram Shakes Full Member

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    Sorry but our biggest problem is the way the football side of the business is being ran.

    We have 7 centre backs in a 25 man squad, that should tell you everything you need to know about how badly this squad is been managed.
  37. Aug 8, 2019

    HackeyC New Member

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    Jones, Bailly and Rojo are permanently crocked so cover is needed.
  38. Aug 8, 2019

    Amarsdd Full Member

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    Exactly! I thought RAWK was bad, but the last few years has made caf equally bad.
  39. Aug 8, 2019

    ThinkTank@Cafe Full Member

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    I don’t hate Glazers. Everything they do is completely legal. They don’t care about football and just want to earn money. I accept that.

    I have a deep respect for Ole, he’s a smart person. He has to deal with the situation he is in. I’m enjoying preseason, I like his tactical approach, and team rebuild.

    Woodward is not dumb. But he is serving owners best interest, not United fans. Ole’s appointment serves to the interests of owners. Will it be in our best interests? Nobody knows. I am inclined to “search of identity” interpretation. Now the window is closed, the outcome depends on Ole and the team. We will see.

    Time for trials and errors is running out. If Ole fails, and Owners will stay as inept as they were, we have to act. Not moan. Moaning is not working. We had 6 years to prove that.
  40. Aug 8, 2019

    Nytram Shakes Full Member

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    Then they shouldn't of been given new contracts. Jones signed in January, Rojo signed when he was not even close to recovering from an injury that has ended lots of career who few return from and match the same standard.

    Again it just adds to the complete mess that has been the management of the football side of the business.