Uno Draft: Round 1 - harms vs 2mufc0

[Enigma_87]

...................................TEAM harms............................................................................. TEAM 2mufc0


TACTICS TEAM harms

In Denis Law I have arguably the best striker in the draft, and what makes him really stand out is that he has so much to his game aside from his goalscoring, which on its own is already as good as anyone’s here. To complete my brilliant front three I have magical Ronaldinho unleashed in a free role on the left and a devastatingly quick and direct threat of Arjen Robben on the right. His and Law’s runs will be an obvious goalscoring route for me, considering the creative support they have behind them (Ronaldinho, Masopust, Cerezo, Carlos…).

Midfield battle is pretty even. Charlton and Masopust are among the very few midfielders that won Ballon d’Or, and there’s probably not much between Gerson/Voronin and Cerezo/Tigana. Although I think that I have a slight advantage there in terms of workrate and defensive ability. The roles are very clear — Toninho Cerezo as a deep-lying playmaker, Jean Tigana as a box-to-box with more emphasis on defense and Josef Masopust shines in his usual left-half role, helping out Roberto Carlos and Ronaldinho in their Joga Bonito advertisement recap.

Roberto Carlos has the most freedom on the left side of my defence — covering him are Masopust (he often helped out his left back when needed in his Ballon d’Or winning 1962 World Cup campaign) and Pietro Vierchowod — the fastest center back on the pitch. Roberto «El Mariscal» (Marshal - eng) Perfumo, my latest obsession, is marshalling my defensive unit. He was truly outstanding playing for River Plate and Argentina in the late 60’s and early 70’s — winning Copa Libertadores and Intercontinental Cup (against Celtic) in 1967 as Racing’s star player and even shutting down Pelé & Co, the greatest international side of all-time, in 1970. Many considered Jimmy Armfield to be the greatest right back in the world after his 1962 performances and only unlucky injury robbed him from participating more actively in the 1966 England’s World Cup win (he still got the medal though). He played alongside Matthews for years and make his name as one of the first overlapping fullbacks — which made sense, since Matthews was often marked by 2 or 3 players. He wasn’t your modern attacking fullback though, but his attacking pedigree makes him pretty balanced even in today’s understanding of his position.

In goal I have Guillermo Ochoa, Mexico’s 2014 World Cup hero, who managed to earn 100 caps for his country. Yeah, he’s not as good as some of the other keepers in this draft but he can elevate his game at the highest stage, as he showed us multiple times — for example, at the next World Cup, making 9 saves and keeping a cleansheet against the reigning World Champions Germany and making second most saves in the competition despite Mexico only reaching quarter-finals.


Thoughts on my opponent’s set up.

2mufc0 has a choice between Salah and Houseman for that position, but neither one is perfect there. The credit for Salah’s impressive form at Liverpool should go to Klopp, who not only bought him, but also provided the ideal platform for him to shine. In his first year he played with Firmino and Mane in a fluid front three, where Firmino played as a false 9, creating tons of space for his pacey partners up front. This season Salah usually plays even further forward — as a pure #9, with Firmino dropping back in the hole. Batigol, who was, obviously, on another level to Firmino as a goalscorer, won’t be adjusting his game to maximise Salah’s movement — and I don’t rate the Egyptian that high as an orthodox right wing option. Housemann, on the other hand, would be a better tactical fit, but he’d be, without any argument, the weakest attacker on the pitch.

To be honest, I’m not sure if Gerson is a good fit with Charlton and Voronin — especially considering Junior’s presence. I’d have someone more energetic there personally, considering what Voronin and Charlton bring to the table.

Other than that I have very little to say about is team, which is quite good, especially for the first round.

TACTICS TEAM 2mufc0

In goal i have the much superior goalkeeper and arguable the best South American keeper of all time Chilavert. In front of him is legendary Italian world cup winner Cannavaro with his speed and ability on the ball he is the perfect foil to Terry. Although an uber-cnut Terry's career on the field speaks for itself, clearly one of the best centre backs of his generation and the PL, 4xPL team of the season, 4x Uefa team of the year, 5x FIFPRo World XI, WC06 team of the tournament, on top of winning almost everything with Chelsea. Next to him at left back is Junior strong and pacey able to stop the best wingers in addition to his fantastic physical attributes he can also contribute offensively and will be supporting Rivaldo in attack. One of the best right backs of all time completes my defence, Zanetti was known as one of the most complete full backs of all time and his tireless work down the wings will provide a solid foundation in defence and contribution in attack.

The defence is screened by Voronin, imo only second to Rijkaard in terms of DM's picked in the draft, he will be ready to break up opposition attacks and use his technical ability to distribute and setup counters. Next to him is Brazil 1970 legend Gerson he will be the play-maker in the middle of the park able to take the ball on in pressure and distribute the ball around the park and feed balls in behind the opposition defence. The third man in the midfield is Manchester United's greatest player Charlton he will have the most licence going forward but with his wonderful engine he can track back when needed, his long shots will be a menace esp against the opposition keeper who is the weakest player on their team. Sir Bobby really was the total package, his mentality was second to none, he was physical and could get stuck in and top it off he was technically brilliant, great with both feet and in the air.

In attack serial goal scorer Batistuta spearheads the attack again as with Charlton his lethal long shots will test the opposition keeper. Not only a great goalscorer Batigol was great at holding up the ball and linking other attackers around him, think of a supercharged Kane as a modern comparison, this is also where one of the greatest Brazilian attackers of all time comes in, Rivaldo will be ready to feed off Batigol's lay offs and headers. On the flip side he will also provide the service Batigol needs to hit the back of the net. Salah completes the attack on the right side, he will have a similar role to Rivaldo, with Zanetti supporting him around the outside he will stretch the opposition and has an eye for goal. Salah is also seasoned in Klopp's pressing system and his work rate will contribute during the defensive phase of the game.

The team is very versatile capable of soaking up pressure as well as attacking on the front foot when the opportunity arises, the solid defence provides the perfect platform for the attack to do the job.

Furthermore i would like to point out that the opposition keepers both have never played for any top teams, one of his keepers Gouamene spent his career playing club football in Africa, he did play for Toulouse but in those 5 years he played a grand total 58 games, that's a about 10 games a season, there is also very limited footage of the guy. As for his second keeper Guillermo Ochoa, he made his name on the back of a handful of good world cup games, again never played for any top team, he spent most of his career in Mexico and France, although playing in Spain for two poor teams he only played a total of 49 games in La Liga and was relegated with Granada. He is vastly inexperienced at the top level, although a decent shot stopper at times he was very error prone, you just have to type his name and error in YouTube to see a catalogue of mistakes ranging from dodgy shot stopping to fumbling crosses to not being physical enough to catch the ball and crap distribution. Against venomous shooters like Batistuta, Charlton and Rivaldo and also the physicality of Batistuta this will be fatal. In a close game this can make the biggest difference.

Examples, as I've said many more on YouTube:

Spoiler: Poor keeping 1

Spoiler: Poor keeping 2

Spoiler: Poor keeping 3

Spoiler: Poor keeping 4

Spoiler: Compilation of errors

 

[Enigma_87]

Best of luck @2mufc0 @harms !

 

[harms]

I'd like to focus a bit more on my midfield, Jean Tigana and Toninho Cerezo in particular. Tigana has a serious claim on being the best defensive/box-to-box midfielder of the 80's — before the full emergence of Rijkaard and Matthäus on the scene, yet he doesn't get as much love as Keane or Davids on here, for example. Absolutely sublime player that combined endless stamina and great positional sense with silky smooth ball-playing skills — he's probably one of, if not the most elegant player in his respective position. I'm a huge fan of Voronin, probably the biggest one here (I'm making a huge career highlights compilation of him as we speak), but Tigana's peak is probably even higher — he's had a few years when he was genuinely one of the best football players in the world, especially in 1984, when he finished second in Ballon d'Or and Onze d'Or vote after a certain Michel Platini.

Toninho Cerezo is another player that gets a bit underrated. He had one not one, but 2 Bola de Ouros — an award for the best player in Campeonato Brasileiro... as a defensive midfielder in direct competition with the peak versions of Zico, Falcão and Socrates. His later exploits in Europe and back in Brazil are quite impressive too — European Cup finals with Roma and Sampdoria and then, at the age of 37, Cerezo joined São Paulo.

More triumph followed over the next two years including a Campeonato Paulista and a Copa Libertadores. São Paulo had already won the 1992 Intercontinental Cup when in 1993 they faced AC Milan with a chance to become only the fourth team to win the title back to back. This was the Milan of Baresi and Maldini who would win the Scudetto the coming season conceding just 15 goals. The 38 year old Toninho excelled. A first time cross field pass to a young Cafu to set up the first, followed by a timed run to score the second at the back post himself and capped off with a defense splitting pass for the third. São Paulo won 3-2.


credit on Cerezo's write up goes to @oneniltothearsenal

 

[harms]

And to Roberto Perfumo. He's had a few trademark performances over the years — in the late 60's and early 70's, but the one that impressed me the most was against Brazil in 1970. It wasn't a full-strength Brazil side that will go down in history as arguably the greatest team of all-time, but it featured Pelé, Gerson, Jairzinho and Carlos Alberto, while Perfumo's partners were, to be polite, a little less impressive. Nevertheless, he provided a masterful performance, pretty much nullifying Pelé and Argentina won 2:0

O Rei finding it incredibly hard to run past El Mariscal


Here's the full compilation:

 

[2mufc0]

Good luck @harms.

I don't agree with your assessment of Gerson it's a common misconception that he was lazy and less energetic. He won a world cup as part of a two man midfield, if you go back and watch the 1970 wc games he showed good work rate, even getting forward and managing to get a good tally of goals over his career. I'm not saying he was a B2B dynamo but he had a good work rate.

Plus I'm not asking him to be the B2B here.

Good article on him here :

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2017/10/10/gerson-the-brain-of-brazilian-football/

There was one player, though, who, despite some describing as the brain of the team, is often counted among the lesser of some very bright lights. Nothing could be much further from the truth. He was the glue of the team, the conduit through which so much of the play flowed. He pulled the strings that made the others dance to that irresistible Samba rhythm.

The ability to transition play from defence to attack with one pass, or to hold the ball and control the game, prompting and probing, and to know when and how to select and execute each option, are exquisite gifts, only granted to a select few players at the very highest level.

 

[harms]

The last post for now — a bit more about Salah. Frankly, I'm not the biggest fan of his, but you can't deny that he had been very successful last season and quite good, although a bit wasteful, in this one. This incredible transformation — from a decent winger to one of the most prolific footballers in the world, comes from Jürgen Klopp's system, that brings out the best out of him.

The first formation was 4-3-3 with Salah, Mane and Firmino as a from three. Firmino, probably the least talented out of those three, played a crucial role last season — playing as a false 9, dropping back to free up the space for Salah and Mane to cut into, and doing a lot of defensive work. Freed of defensive responsibilities and able to cut inside at will, Salah proved to be very effective, although it left Liverpool a bit vulnerable at that wing. This season, trying to find a right balance, Klopp went even further — he switched to the 4-2-3-1 with Salah up front and a more hardworking player at right wing (Shaqiri, Milner, Wijnaldum — or even Keita on the left and Mane on the right).

Anyway, the key is playing Salah as the main man — and as a main goalscorer, with everyone else adjusting to his movement. I think he would've worked with Rivaldo, probably, ego-issues aside, but I don't think that a classic number 9 in Batistuta is the right choice for him at all. Given the choice, I wouldn't pick Salah anyway, call it my recency and anti-Liverpool bias, but if I did, I would've played him where he's comfortable. His presence here leaves 2mufc0's attack a bit disjointed, imo, while on the other hand my front trio will work perfectly well together.

Spoiler

 

[harms]

I don't agree with your assessment of Gerson it's a common misconception that he was lazy and less energetic. He won a world cup as part of a two man midfield, if you go back and watch the 1970 wc games he showed good work rate, even getting forward and managing to get a good tally of goals over his career. I'm not saying he was a B2B dynamo but he had a good work rate.

Plus I'm not asking him to be the B2B here.

It's not even the lack of workrate. It's a different mindset to Voronin and Charlton, for one. And just the fact that a world-class b2b — like Tigana or Keane (let alone Matthäus) can elevate that midfield three to an all-time level, while right now it feels a bit weird to me. I'm biased, of course, not only because I'm your opponent, but because Charlton and Voronin are both my absolute favourites and I have very strong opinions on how I would use them to maximise their qualities.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

while im also not the biggest fan of Salah you are wrong @harms , for 90% of the time Salah plays on the same position in the same role as last season. There was a short spell where Shaqiri got a run in and they switched to a "front" 4 but that didnt last long.

 

[harms]

while im also not the biggest fan of Salah you are wrong @harms , for 90% of the time Salah plays on the same position in the same role as last season. There was a short spell where Shaqiri got a run in and they switched to a "front" 4 but that didnt last long.

He often starts on the right of a front 3, but he plays even further forward this season. Even when Liverpool play 4-3-3 — they are constantly switching between 2 formations.

Liverpool assistant manager Pepijn Lijnders believes Mohamed Salah's willingness and ability to change his role this season makes him one of the best footballers in the world.

Salah broke records and claimed the Premier League Golden Boot last season as he scored 44 goals for Liverpool, lining UP on the right of a forward three.

However, Liverpool's coaching staff decided to move Salah to a more central role in the summer, and he has enjoyed similar success having netted 20 times already this campaign. His positional switch was one of a number of tactical tweaks made by Liverpool during preseason as Jurgen Klopp sought more control from his side.

Lijnders, who returned to Liverpool in June after a fifth-month spell managing NEC Nijmegen, explained the thinking behind these decisions in an interview at Melwood.

ESPN: After such a successful season, why was the decision made to move Salah more centrally?

Lijnders: "First of all, he has the ability to create from the inside. That differentiates him from many others. To have him in the last line as high as we can -- with the speed he has, the goal threat he has -- makes it for us easier to create a freer role for Bobby [Roberto Firmino]. For Mo, it's really good to understand the game in that way -- to be the point. We still try to be flexible in the way we play. There will be moments where we play with three and moments with two. For him it's great. He's closer to the goal, he can use his speed more, he's more where we want him to be. That's a natural development for him. He's a real goalscorer. The only thing with that freedom and with that versatility, he should keep that first impulse of pressing."

After a record-breaking debut season at the club, it would take a bold manager to shift a player who scored 44 goals cutting in from the right flank into a new position the following campaign.

That, though, is precisely what Jurgen Klopp did with Salah, and there were in fact already signs of Salah moving to a more central role towards the back end of 2017-18.

He started up front in a 4-2-3-1 formation, as he broke the Premier League record for the most goals in a 38-game season, on the final day against Brighton.

There was a sense that opposition sides were beginning to find ways to stop Salah getting on the ball and to limit the spaces in which he could operate from that inside-right berth—but as Klopp has repeatedly shown throughout his tenure, he is extremely adaptable and always looking for new solutions to keep progressing.

At first, however, the positional switch looked far from natural for Salah.

He endured a frustrating start to the season, scoring just three goals in Liverpool’s first 11 games, while the knock-on effect saw Roberto Firmino also struggling to find form as he grappled with his new, deeper No. 10 role.

As Klopp explained in December: “[Salah] had to adapt to a slightly different position. It’s not that much different, but it is still different.”

Klopp also alluded to the Egyptian adding more components to his game, suggesting: “Of course he’s still young enough to involve a lot more things in his style of play.

“It’s not just about speed, or finishing; it’s a lot of things, between the lines and keeping the ball.”

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I don't agree with your assessment of Gerson it's a common misconception that he was lazy and less energetic. He won a world cup as part of a two man midfield, if you go back and watch the 1970 wc games he showed good work rate, even getting forward and managing to get a good tally of goals over his career. I'm not saying he was a B2B dynamo but he had a good work rate.

I once picked Gerson as well in some draft long ago. Watched his games for a good few hours so that I can prove that he had decent work rate. Eventually had to give up because the notion of him lacking work rate proved to be right. Sure like any other footballer, he was physically present in the midfield trotting around when the opposition had the ball, but that was about it.

The 1970 two man midfield argument was the one that inspired me to watch all of his 1970 games looking only at him specifically. Couldn't convince myself at any point and dropped him to the bench as my team needed a bit of work rate in that game.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

As for his second keeper Guillermo Ochoa, he made his name on the back of a handful of good world cup games, again never played for any top team, he spent most of his career in Mexico and France, although playing in Spain for two poor teams he only played a total of 49 games in La Liga and was relegated with Granada. He is vastly inexperienced at the top level, although a decent shot stopper at times he was very error prone, you just have to type his name and error in YouTube to see a catalogue of mistakes ranging from dodgy shot stopping to fumbling crosses to not being physical enough to catch the ball and crap distribution. Against venomous shooters like Batistuta, Charlton and Rivaldo and also the physicality of Batistuta this will be fatal. In a close game this can make the biggest difference.

Examples, as I've said many more on YouTube:

Spoiler: Compilation of errors

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This is a correct example of the keeper being a weakness. Adding the likes of Tim Howard in the same bracket was that is why an absolute joke for me. Probably would have voted for harms by now if not for Ochoa.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

watch them play almost every week, dont need other source tbh.....they can try to spin the Salah position change into a praise but im calling bs, same like Kepa Sarri spin. Salah moves centrally when opposition start to go through him as this season he doesnt want to play much defence. When that happens and Pool doesnt dominate the game they switch things and he switches with Firmino. Best example was Napoli or Bayern game not sure exactly, think it was Napoli. Their leftback started dominating him, went up like 3, 4 times in a short amount of time and Salah started crying to the bench about it, few moments later you see Mane on the right, Firmino on the left and Salah as a striker. If he won Balon d'Or last season it wouldnt be undeserved but this season he is nowhere near and his 3 year peak is not good enough IMO

 

[2mufc0]

I once picked Gerson as well in some draft long ago. Watched his games for a good few hours so that I can prove that he had decent work rate. Eventually had to give up because the notion of him lacking work rate proved to be right. Sure like any other footballer, he was physically present in the midfield trotting around when the opposition had the ball, but that was about it.

The 1970 two man midfield argument was the one that inspired me to watch all of his 1970 games looking only at him specifically. Couldn't convince myself at any point and dropped him to the bench as my team needed a bit of work rate in that game.

Agree but I'm not asking him to be a buzzing bee in there, he's there for his technical abilities providing control in the middle and linking defence with attack. Under pressure he would be a great outlet too.

 

[P-Nut]

Like both sides, will watch the discussion closely

 

[2mufc0]

I don't see the fixation with Salah, he's not someone that will make or break my attack. He's perfectly comfortable in this position, but I acknowledge he's the easy target here and fair enough he will get some heat. You can watch his highlights reel of last season and this one most of his work is done off the right wing. To say he's a central striker is incorrect, yes he does switch during the game but majority of the time he's on the right. Plus he also brings that work rate to balance out Rivaldo on the other side.

As for his attack my defence his fully equipped to deal with it with both full backs the right quality and profile to stop the opposition. Furthermore I don't see Robben getting much support from Armfield so it makes it easier. I would also fancy Rivaldo against Armfield.

 

[2mufc0]

This is a correct example of the keeper being a weakness. Adding the likes of Tim Howard in the same bracket was that is why an absolute joke for me. Probably would have voted for harms by now if not for Ochoa.

You can make an argument for Tim Howard but this guy doesn't even belong in any all time draft conversation.
Imagine him fumbling around against rockets like these:

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Among the greats in the position, Salah stylistically looks closest to Jairzinho to me. So for me no problems.

But I did not like the Charlton/Gerson combo. The two of them together are just not needed.

With Gerson, you'd ideally want a Pele or Eusebio style support striker who wouldn't want to drop as deep as Charlton so Gerson can run things from the back while they can run things from the top.

Rivaldo as the support striker here would have been great with Gerson too with Charlton on the left playing the Rivellino role.

Voronin is stylistically same as Clodoaldo too so no problems pairing him with Gerson for me

 

[2mufc0]

Among the greats in the position, Salah stylistically looks closest to Jairzinho to me. So for me no problems.

But I did not like the Charlton/Gerson combo. The two of them together are just not needed.

With Gerson, you'd ideally want a Pele or Eusebio style support striker who wouldn't want to drop as deep as Charlton so Gerson can run things from the back while they can run things from the top.

Rivaldo as the support striker here would have been great with Gerson too with Charlton on the left playing the Rivellino role.

Voronin is stylistically same as Clodoaldo too so no problems pairing him with Gerson for me

Batistuta wasn't the type to drop too deep either mate. Charlton and Gerson are completely different players and imo compliment eachother fine.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Batistuta wasn't the type to drop too deep either mate. Charlton and Gerson are completely different players and imo compliment eachother fine.

But Batistuta isn't your support striker.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Charlton and Gerson. Again, I don't call them similar players, I just don't see them complementing each other.

 

[2mufc0]

But Batistuta isn't your support striker.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Charlton and Gerson. Again, I don't call them similar players, I just don't see them complementing each other.

I don't want anyone coming deep into that no. 10 area as I can see sir Bobby and Rivaldo operating in those areas. A Pele type striker wouldn't work as well in this system imo.
Fair enough guess we just have to disagree. An all action midfielder and a technical passer can work very well together imo.

 

[P-Nut]

I don't want anyone coming deep into that no. 10 area as I can see sir Bobby and Rivaldo operating in those areas. A Pele type striker wouldn't work as well in this system imo.
Fair enough guess we just have to disagree. An all action midfielder and a technical passer can work very well together imo.

Definitely agree with that one to be honest. It's one of the key components I like to see in a side. Be it a 433 or 4231 you still like to have a mix of the 2 in the side.

 

[MJJ]

Among the greats in the position, Salah stylistically looks closest to Jairzinho to me. So for me no problems.

But I did not like the Charlton/Gerson combo. The two of them together are just not needed.

With Gerson, you'd ideally want a Pele or Eusebio style support striker who wouldn't want to drop as deep as Charlton so Gerson can run things from the back while they can run things from the top.

Rivaldo as the support striker here would have been great with Gerson too with Charlton on the left playing the Rivellino role.

Voronin is stylistically same as Clodoaldo too so no problems pairing him with Gerson for me

Haven't modric and kroos/ xavi and iniesta put a rest to this? The best midfields of the last two decades had two playmakers with a positionally smart DM. You dont need an all action box to box ball winner in a 4 3 3.

Having Gerson here means that Charlton can focus more on the offense or share the playmaking burden.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Haven't modric and kroos/ xavi and iniesta put a rest to this? The best midfields of the last two decades had two playmakers with a positionally smart DM. You dont need an all action box to box ball winner in a 4 3 3.

Having Gerson here means that Charlton can focus more on the offense or share the playmaking burden.

Gerson was not like any of them.

Intrigued to know the in house Brazilian expert @oneniltothearsenal 's views on the setup.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Also, calling Charlton an all action midfielder is wrong. He was a hard working No.10

Not an all action midfielder. That would be Matthaus or Tigana or Davids.

 

[MJJ]

Gerson was not like any of them.

Intrigued to know the in house Brazilian expert @oneniltothearsenal 's views on the setup.

I would say he is closest to kroos in playing style out of that four whereas Charlton is closest to iniesta. Iniesta xavi worked so can see iniesta kroos working too with the right DM.

 

[P-Nut]

Also, calling Charlton an all action midfielder is wrong. He was a hard working No.10

Not an all action midfielder. That would be Matthaus or Tigana or Davids.

I'd have him as an extremely talented all action midfielder personaliy

 

[2mufc0]

Also, calling Charlton an all action midfielder is wrong. He was a hard working No.10

Not an all action midfielder. That would be Matthaus or Tigana or Davids.

All action attacking midfielder then, the role he's tasked with here.

 

[harms]

Haven't modric and kroos/ xavi and iniesta put a rest to this? The best midfields of the last two decades had two playmakers with a positionally smart DM. You dont need an all action box to box ball winner in a 4 3 3.

Having Gerson here means that Charlton can focus more on the offense or share the playmaking burden.

Iniesta and Xavi & Modric and Kroos were on the same wavelength. The football that Charlton and Voronin (who would be great together) play is vastly different from the Brazilian style of Gerson — and, unlike a few other Brazilians, putting him out of that system actually exposes him. Put Falcao/Schuster/Suarez there and they would be a nice fit. At least that’s how I see it.

I simply prefer the chemistry in my midfield and front trio, although you’re free to disagree with me.

 

[2mufc0]

Harms has a fantastic team and even i can see this is a close game, but for those sitting on the fence would you really trust this guy in goal against Charlton, Rivaldo and Batistuta? While on the other end my keeper is light years ahead, there has to come a point where we take the keeper position seriously. In case you missed it in the OP:

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I would say he is closest to kroos in playing style out of that four whereas Charlton is closest to iniesta. Iniesta xavi worked so can see iniesta kroos working too with the right DM.

For me, he'd be the closest to Pirlo and Bozsik.

I guess that is where all the different tactical opinions are coming from. We all look at him differently.

 

[2mufc0]

Iniesta and Xavi & Modric and Kroos were on the same wavelength. The football that Charlton and Voronin (who would be great together) play is vastly different from the Brazilian style of Gerson — and, unlike a few other Brazilians, putting him out of that system actually exposes him. Put Falcao/Schuster/Suarez there and they would be a nice fit. At least that’s how I see it.

I simply prefer the chemistry in my midfield and front trio, although you’re free to disagree with me.

If we are nitpicking Tigana and Cerezo are similar types of players too, so i wouldn't say the chemistry is perfect. On top of that you have two wing forwards which adds little variation to the attack, while Carlos is great on the left side for Ronaldinho, Robben isn't supported by an overlapper which makes it much easier to defend against.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Robben isn't supported by an overlapper which makes it much easier to defend against.

Jimmy Armfield was the first British overlapping fullback.

There are brilliant stories about him pissing off Matthews with his overlapping runs. The latter didn't like to share wing duties.

 

[MJJ]

Iniesta and Xavi & Modric and Kroos were on the same wavelength. The football that Charlton and Voronin (who would be great together) play is vastly different from the Brazilian style of Gerson — and, unlike a few other Brazilians, putting him out of that system actually exposes him. Put Falcao/Schuster/Suarez there and they would be a nice fit. At least that’s how I see it.

I simply prefer the chemistry in my midfield and front trio, although you’re free to disagree with me.

Hmm can you please elaborate how? Might be worth creating a separate thread for this as its an interesting discussion if you guys dont want it to derail the match.

For me, he'd be the closest to Pirlo and Bozsik.

I guess that is where all the different tactical opinions are coming from. We all look at him differently.

Hmm yeah I can see where the problem is coming from but pirlo can never play in a two man mid at a high level. Carrick maybe?

If we are nitpicking Tigana and Cerezo are similar types of players too, so i wouldn't say the chemistry is perfect. On top of that you have two wing forwards which adds little variation to the attack, while Carlos is great on the left side for Ronaldinho, Robben isn't supported by an overlapper which makes it much easier to defend against.

Disagree, you have a creator(ronaldinho) and a finisher(robben).

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Jimmy Armfield was the first British overlapping fullback.

There are brilliant stories about him pissing off Matthews with his overlapping runs. The latter didn't like to share wing duties.

"He (Matthews) was quite often double marked and that is how we started overlapping.

"The opposition quite often used to have two men on him, a full-back and a winger who dropped back. So I said to Stan in all humbleness one day that if there were two of us and I went round the outside he could put the ball through. He gave me a little nod, that meant no.

"But we played Luton, we were winning 2-0 or 3-0. I gave it to Stan, he was marked so I set off round the outside and Stan put the ball through, right through the gap. I was through on my own - but anyway I shot wide.

"The manager Joe Smith said to me afterwards: 'What was that all about?' I said: 'What?' He said: 'That wing play. I don't know whether you've noticed but the number seven we've got has done quite well without your help so far'."

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Hmm yeah I can see where the problem is coming from but pirlo can never play in a two man mid at a high level. Carrick maybe?

Carrick was agile. Gerson was not.

The thing is, in 1970's, the tempo and pressing were not that high which meant you could still afford the luxury of Gerson. Not to forget, teams were shit scared of that Brazil team anyways.

Put him in Pirlo's generation in a 2 man midfield and he would struggle.

Put the 1970 Brazil team against Guardiola's Barcelona and Pele would cry back home while Gerson would be in a coma. Slight exaggeration of course.

 

[harms]

If we are nitpicking Tigana and Cerezo are similar types of players too, so i wouldn't say the chemistry is perfect. On top of that you have two wing forwards which adds little variation to the attack, while Carlos is great on the left side for Ronaldinho, Robben isn't supported by an overlapper which makes it much easier to defend against.

You were already corrected regarding Armfield, but to say that Ronaldinho and Robben “add little variation to attack” is just weird, it’s hard to find less similar players for their roles.

Cerezo and Tigana also weren’t similar players at all. Cerezo was a holding midfielder (with brilliant passing and dribbling skills though), Tigana was an all-action box-to-box with a fantastic engine. Both played with those types of players before — Tigana with Fernandez and Cerezo with Falcão (more playmaking than Tigana, but still more of a b2b). My midfield has players that love having the ball at their feet though, which suits the general joga bonito feeling (with Law/Robben as direct option for “variety”).

 

[harms]

Hmm yeah I can see where the problem is coming from but pirlo can never play in a two man mid at a high level. Carrick maybe?

Pirlo won the World Cup in a midfield two. Which isn’t really true (only technically), as he had a lot of help, but so did Gerson — in Rivellino (more so) and Pelé.

 

[Jim Beam]

Pirlo can't play in midfield two? This is peak statement when it comes to underrating one of the best midfielders the world has ever seen in draft threads.

Sorry for derailing the thread, but with Pirlo it came to absurd levels around here.

Like the balance of harms team just a bit more and especially his statements about Salah - Batistuta pairing.

 

[2mufc0]

Pirlo can't play in midfield two? This is peak statement when it comes to underrating one of the best midfielders the world has ever seen in draft threads.

Sorry for derailing the thread, but with Pirlo it came to absurd levels around here.

Like the balance of harms team just a bit more and especially his statements about Salah - Batistuta pairing.

It's a draft hyperbole, there seems to be a set way of setting a team up and defensive midfield destroyer is essential to stop a goat no.10 while it can help there are other ways. Already posted in the other thread about Pirlo and agree I can't see him as a liability in most situations.

 

[2mufc0]

"He (Matthews) was quite often double marked and that is how we started overlapping.

"The opposition quite often used to have two men on him, a full-back and a winger who dropped back. So I said to Stan in all humbleness one day that if there were two of us and I went round the outside he could put the ball through. He gave me a little nod, that meant no.

"But we played Luton, we were winning 2-0 or 3-0. I gave it to Stan, he was marked so I set off round the outside and Stan put the ball through, right through the gap. I was through on my own - but anyway I shot wide.

"The manager Joe Smith said to me afterwards: 'What was that all about?' I said: 'What?' He said: 'That wing play. I don't know whether you've noticed but the number seven we've got has done quite well without your help so far'."

Whilst a nice little story, any video evidence? Because in that era and before the full backs weren't known for their attacking contribution.