I mean, we did lose and draw games against shit sides with Ronaldo in the team in the past.
Unpopular opinion: Ronaldo will be a huge miss
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Again, we're talking about a 36 yo Ronaldo we bought for £20m not a 26 yo Ronaldo we bought for £200m.
I didn't say I want to him to do something else. I'm not Ole. I only said he must fit into our current system not the other way around. For example Ole might want him to run a bit more, press and help to link our play because our system requires so. Now:
1. He can't or refuses to do that which leads to him being isolated and can't impact the game. Not Ole's fault imo. I don't see anyone said it was Ole's fault that Martial sucked big time against Southampton.
2. He can't or refuses to do that but still somehow score two goals a match. Ole would be stupid to drop him. Now he has earned his right to play as he wish as long as he puts in the number. The system probably has to change to accommodate him.
Imo anything is possible we'll see how it goes after a couple of matches. I only think it's not a good idea that he'd automatically be an undisputed starter and our system must change to accommodate him just because of his reputation, status and records. It's not how football works, he might be but he gotta earn that here.
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I think it can work for us because he's only player in the world who can have two touches in a game and score 2 goals.
However, I don't expect our football to become better/more fluid.
The other aspect though is I think he'll bring in some positive vibes and draw attention from other young players, which is good.
However, I don't expect our football to become better/more fluid.
The other aspect though is I think he'll bring in some positive vibes and draw attention from other young players, which is good.
And I’m sure we will in 1 or 2 years when they will hopefully be much better players having been around Ronaldo and learning from him. I think ordinarily signing a veteran who displaces game time for a young talent would be a negative. But I’m pretty sure in this case, where it isn’t just any veteran but a professional role model who has won it all and been an all time great, the opportunity to be around him and learn from him could have just as much positive impact. Not to mention I do think all 3 will still see significant game time this season.
Well, at any football club the manager is the boss (until he's sacked) and the players work under him.
When we rest Bruno play Rashford on the left, Greenwood at 10 and Sancho on the right with Ronaldo up front.
McFred and defence behind.
Not necessarily with Ronaldo in it as a proper striker.
Surely you're having a laugh.
What exactly is our current tactical system? I must say after the Southampton game and Wolves game, I can’t really pinpoint exactly what each player is meant to do.
Also, whilst I agree that we aren’t buying the Ronaldo of 10 years ago, a great manager always tailors their overall approach with consideration of who is in the team. Of course that’s a general rule of thumb. You get the rare guys like Van Gaal who are so set in how they play but even they are cognisant of who is on the field. Principally, yes, Ronaldo like anyone should not be an automatic starter. But if you play Ronaldo, you know precisely what you’re getting and what you’re not getting. So you either factor that into your overall strategy and philosophy, or you simply don’t sign him. A 36 year old player doesn’t suddenly change how he plays.
Some of the reaction towards him is definitely surprising. Some people are acting like he's finished. He's one of the 10 best players in the world(arguably one of the 5 best).
He's an incredible player still. I'm pretty sure he's definitely our best player. He's not as good as he was in 2011 or 2015, but he was other-worldly then. Messi isn't as good as he was in 2011 or 2015 either.
And in the past 5-6 years, he's definitely gotten more decisive in terms of goal-scoring.
I think the point though is Ronaldo is not a young player who can change and adapt. He’s 36 years old. Whilst what you’re saying is obviously true, you don’t buy a 36 year old legend and expect him to change. Regardless of his status worldwide and at United, you know what you’re getting with him. Yeah you can ask him to do a small thing here or there but ultimately at this point he is who he is and everyone knows what he is. So you simply have a plan on how to incorporate him in your team and strategy, or you simply don’t buy him. Buying him and thinking he will suddenly change and adapt anymore than a few small things here or there is fools play.
This is actually a pretty neat summary of how I feel. Without writing an essay. Kudos.
+ I hope he is a positive impact on the development of our young players who will see and experience first hand the hard work and dedication to become elite.
This is not a good, civilized way to have a discussion. We'd better stop here I think.
I find myself singing Viva Ronaldo spontaneously from time to time. He's already a hit.
You should read the Ronaldo transfer thread to actually understand why we bought him.
I don’t think that thread would answer that question.
It’s so weird to me that so many people seem to simultaneously hold the view that Ole is incapable of implementing any kind of coherent tactical system and that we will definitely be improved by signing a player whose almost unique set of pros and cons will pose a tricky tactical conundrum for any coach (a conundrum that very experienced and/or highly rated managers like Allegri, Sarri and Santos all struggled with).
Both of these things cannot be true at once.
1. No, not really. His wages are where they at because he is Cristiano. We don't have any other player in our squad with even 25% of his marketing potential, nor will any one of them score 25% of the goals he scored during his career. I don't see it becoming a risk.
2. It might sound dumb, but to me, that's alright. It's about time our midfielders experience some pressure.
3. None of our current players bar Cavani can play with his back to goal and that's not how we play nevertheless.
4. This I agree with and we've already seen it with Rashford from Ole.
Embarrassing thread. Don't blow your hate-load prematurely next time.
How so? Also your inference that I think Ole is tactically incapable is also off the mark. I simply said that it isn’t clear to see precisely what our tactical approach was in the Soton and Wolves game. And specifically that from just watching those games, I couldn’t see what roles each player had. Jumping from that to saying Ole is tactically incapable is wrong. I do think we haven’t yet found a tactical system which works, although not sure how much of that is also players playing badly, but either way doesn’t mean I don’t believe we will ever find one.
And secondly, irrespective of the above, you could hold both views fairly reasonably. Am incapable manager tactically fields a team which is unbalanced and doesn’t generate synergies to get the best out of players. You’re right that this would mean our performances wouldn’t be great and we wouldn’t maximise the output of someone like Ronaldo, but that doesn’t mean we wouldn’t be better - in such situations having a clinical striker who can put that one chance our team manages to create is all the more important.
Humans are such emotional beings but football fans take it to another level entirely. I don't think anything is knee-jerk from the OP as I think it's an entirely honest assessment. Just as it's possible that everything will fall into place for Ole regarding the Ronaldo signing moving forward, it's also entirely possible that the opposite could happen regarding Ronaldo upsetting the harmony of the collective, which whether you want to admit or not is exactly why City, Chelsea to an extent and definitely Liverpool work so hard on. The collective will always and should always be more important then the individual.
I understand what the OP is worried about. Our problem isn't not taking chances, it's controlling games and creating chances. Ronaldo doesn't solve either of these things. In fact it's possible we'll have even less control of games because his defensive contribution and pressing is minimal.
What Ronaldo will do is give us a route to score different types of goals and occupy defences in different ways. It'll be up to the other players, and the coaches, to make the most of that.
But I can't shake the concern that what he'll give us is a way to shithouse our way to a few more undeserved wins. Obviously winning more is great, and I'll take it if it means a trophy, but what I really want to see is United blowing teams away with magnificent football. I'm not sure that's going to happen with Ronaldo, and it may actually make us worse to watch. If anything, getting Sancho integrated and playing well will be more important for that.
What Ronaldo will do is give us a route to score different types of goals and occupy defences in different ways. It'll be up to the other players, and the coaches, to make the most of that.
But I can't shake the concern that what he'll give us is a way to shithouse our way to a few more undeserved wins. Obviously winning more is great, and I'll take it if it means a trophy, but what I really want to see is United blowing teams away with magnificent football. I'm not sure that's going to happen with Ronaldo, and it may actually make us worse to watch. If anything, getting Sancho integrated and playing well will be more important for that.
The
Its not a brave thread either.
Or maybe give Ronaldo a full game before you start a thread.
Its not a brave thread either.
Or they just want attention
Rashford has not been dropped because of his ego and because Ole is worried to upset him? Really?
He was dropped at the end of last season, btw, playing Pogba on the left. But hey.
I'd say pretty the same about people who attack the poster but not his opinion. Actually imo they're worse. Because at least the poster has something to say about that opinion.
Is he slow these days?
There are plenty of times when the manager has to build a team around a particular player to get the best of them, especially when you are talking about players of the calibre of Ronaldo or Messi. Fergie did exactly that even if it meant shunning Rooney out wide or whatever because in the ended that got him the best results.
Did I attack the poster?
Yes.
Apologies, I did not mean to insult you or be rude, but I find it hard to believe that you're being serious with the suggestion that Ronaldo should not be an automatic starter and should earn his place. It's so outrageous that it almost seems like a joke.
You'll find plenty worse "attacks" in this thread than me saying someone isn't as insightful & interesting as they think they are, but go on.
Let's maybe wait for him to play a couple of games with United before coming up with this?
I don't think anyone is expecting him to be Ronaldo from the early 2010s. He is still an elite goalscorer, which is something we are solely lacking. Ffs have we not seen how Cavani made a massive difference compared to the likes of Martial and others? His movement and finishing will take us a long way.
I don't think anyone is expecting him to be Ronaldo from the early 2010s. He is still an elite goalscorer, which is something we are solely lacking. Ffs have we not seen how Cavani made a massive difference compared to the likes of Martial and others? His movement and finishing will take us a long way.
Have you not watched Rashford or Martial previously?
Ole and Murtough posted in there?
I understand your point. But for me this is applied for every player we sign. No player is bigger than the club, it's our tradition. He might have that status if he's still the same player we sold 12 years ago, but I'd doubt so.
An unexpected couple of year opportunity to see a world great. If anyone isn't excited at that they probably need to change sport, team or really deal with their life issues ASAP.
First, obviously ecstatic Ronaldo is back. His impact on the mindset of the team will be just as valuable as his goals.
However, having him lead the line for the next two years does not come without its problems in terms of developing our style and patterns of play. It’s interesting that a lot of posters who are understandably delighted about Ronaldo returning are also those clamouring for Utd to develop their own style of play like City or Pool and slam Solksjaer for not having a more distinct footballing identity, with identifiable patterns of attacking (see match day thread post Southampton game) Solksjaer and the coaching staff are often accused of being amateurish...with the style of play describe as being l “pass forward, run forward and hope one of the boys turns on the magic”. We have gotten by on individual brilliance for a while now and as I see it, Ronaldo is another magician that may just help to better cover up the real issue which is a lack of top level coaching at the club. He is a short term injection of quality that might get a few trophy’s over the line. Using him in every big game over the next two years gets us no closer to the playing style Solkjaer seemed to be building toward - developing a fluid front 3, interchanging and attacking at pace. This is why he always insists Greenwood should not being pidgeoned into a number 9 role or why he bought Sancho or why we see Pogba, when deployed out left interchanging with Bruno and roaming, given a more free role.
While you don’t ever pass up on signing Ronaldo, it’s not all one big happy ending. He is a player that requires a system, not a player that will fit into a system. Did you see how many crosses Portugal aimed toward him before he got his goals last night? With the players they have they could have cut Ireland to pieces with more patient build up play...but that doesn’t play to Ronaldo’s strengths.
Im genuinely giddy to see him in a Utd shirt again but I do feel he gives short term gains at the cost of continuing the overall development of our attacking “philosophy”- if there is one!
However, having him lead the line for the next two years does not come without its problems in terms of developing our style and patterns of play. It’s interesting that a lot of posters who are understandably delighted about Ronaldo returning are also those clamouring for Utd to develop their own style of play like City or Pool and slam Solksjaer for not having a more distinct footballing identity, with identifiable patterns of attacking (see match day thread post Southampton game) Solksjaer and the coaching staff are often accused of being amateurish...with the style of play describe as being l “pass forward, run forward and hope one of the boys turns on the magic”. We have gotten by on individual brilliance for a while now and as I see it, Ronaldo is another magician that may just help to better cover up the real issue which is a lack of top level coaching at the club. He is a short term injection of quality that might get a few trophy’s over the line. Using him in every big game over the next two years gets us no closer to the playing style Solkjaer seemed to be building toward - developing a fluid front 3, interchanging and attacking at pace. This is why he always insists Greenwood should not being pidgeoned into a number 9 role or why he bought Sancho or why we see Pogba, when deployed out left interchanging with Bruno and roaming, given a more free role.
While you don’t ever pass up on signing Ronaldo, it’s not all one big happy ending. He is a player that requires a system, not a player that will fit into a system. Did you see how many crosses Portugal aimed toward him before he got his goals last night? With the players they have they could have cut Ireland to pieces with more patient build up play...but that doesn’t play to Ronaldo’s strengths.
Im genuinely giddy to see him in a Utd shirt again but I do feel he gives short term gains at the cost of continuing the overall development of our attacking “philosophy”- if there is one!
Fair point, but neither of them are in the side currently. Rashford is a wide forward anyway, and certainly does more defensively than Ronaldo. The main comparison is Cavani who of course is half the player Ronaldo is, but we do look a better side with him on the pitch partly due to his workrate and mobility.
SAF always had different treatment for different players, doesn't mean players were bigger than the club, that's called management. Not every player will be treated same way. All these things looks better on paper or to discuss on forums but in reality it never happens.
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