Up to a third of millennials 'face renting their entire life'

[adexkola]

Thread bump:

I'm seeing more and more articles about how "renting isn't that bad" and that owning a house "costs plenty of money too".

To me, this is kinda missing the point. Yes, ownership has costs of its own. And yes, you can rent and build equity through an investment portfolio.

But when you own your home and pay off your mortgage, your monthly expenses go down. For me, that was always the main advantage of home ownership. Selling a home with profit for me was a secondary potential benefit. I use the word "potential" because there is no guarantee that you can sell with profit.

Your rent won't go down, in fact it's likely to go up. So again, the fact that your monthly expenses go down over time when you own a home was always the primary advantage for me and yet, these recent articles completely ignore this point?

Few points here (applicable to America but may also apply across the pond)

Depending on where you move, rent may go down. You can decide to buy a property in retirement using equity that has been built up. And yes you're no longer paying down a mortgage + interest, but taxes and insurance will always be there, and will most certainly grow over time. Maintenance on an aging property will be substantial.

With the rent vs buy debate, there is no "right" answer. It is perfectly fine to buy a house for sentimental reasons. However very few people look at it the following way:

When you rent, you are "throwing away" the rent every month. You will never see that money again. Let's call this quantity A.

When you buy, you will never see the following money again:

Interest paid on the mortgage
Property taxes
Opportunity cost of the down payment (that money could be used for something else (building equity in the stock market for example))
Maintenance that doesn't raise the property value
Closing/legal/inspection costs during buying
And more... Let's call this quantity B.

Now usually (not always!!), the cost of B most of the time exceeds the cost of A. That delta is money that could, again, be used to build equity in the market or start a business or something... In particular, the stock market has beat real estate over a long period of time. So there are many scenarios where over time, you're better off renting vs buying, when taking the potential of B-A into account. Strictly from a numbers perspective.

The question people need to ask is: is paying B-A extra, worth the drop in monthly expenses down the line, or the feel good factor about owning a home, a backyard for the kids, or whatever other reason is given for homeownership? If so, feck it, buy the house. But I do see way more people going with the old trope of "your mortgage payment is less than your rent so buy" than arguing that rent isn't that bad.

I say this and also believe that for all who want to own a house of theirs, it should not be that difficult or expensive.

 

[VorZakone]

Few points here (applicable to America but may also apply across the pond)

Depending on where you move, rent may go down. You can decide to buy a property in retirement using equity that has been built up. And yes you're no longer paying down a mortgage + interest, but taxes and insurance will always be there, and will most certainly grow over time. Maintenance on an aging property will be substantial.

With the rent vs buy debate, there is no "right" answer. It is perfectly fine to buy a house for sentimental reasons. However very few people look at it the following way:

When you rent, you are "throwing away" the rent every month. You will never see that money again. Let's call this quantity A.

When you buy, you will never see the following money again:

Interest paid on the mortgage
Property taxes
Opportunity cost of the down payment (that money could be used for something else (building equity in the stock market for example))
Maintenance that doesn't raise the property value
Closing/legal/inspection costs during buying
And more... Let's call this quantity B.

Now usually (not always!!), the cost of B most of the time exceeds the cost of A. That delta is money that could, again, be used to build equity in the market or start a business or something... In particular, the stock market has beat real estate over a long period of time. So there are many scenarios where over time, you're better off renting vs buying, when taking the potential of B-A into account. Strictly from a numbers perspective.

The question people need to ask is: is paying B-A extra, worth the drop in monthly expenses down the line, or the feel good factor about owning a home, a backyard for the kids, or whatever other reason is given for homeownership? If so, feck it, buy the house. But I do see way more people going with the old trope of "your mortgage payment is less than your rent so buy" than arguing that rent isn't that bad.

I say this and also believe that for all who want to own a house of theirs, it should not be that difficult or expensive.

I genuinely find it hard to believe that most of the time B exceeds A. Where I live, if you have a rent apartment, you don't just pay for sole rent. You also pay service costs to the apartment complex to do maintenance.

But yes, this will obviously differ per country.

 

[sun_tzu]

I genuinely find it hard to believe that most of the time B exceeds A. Where I live, if you have a rent apartment, you don't just pay for sole rent. You also pay service costs to the apartment complex to do maintenance.

I mean just to be clear but that maintenence covers repairs to paths fences, painting the outside of the building etc.... when you buy a house all of those costs don't magically dissappear.... just like replacing boilers, redecorating, replacing floors and windows etc

 

[VorZakone]

I mean just to be clear but that maintenence covers repairs to paths fences, painting the outside of the building etc.... when you buy a house all of those costs don't magically dissappear.... just like replacing boilers, redecorating, replacing floors and windows etc

Okay but I never suggested that. Maintenance costs are something you'll have to pay for whether you own a home or rent (indirectly through service costs).

 

[MadMike]

Generation of losers. If me, an immigrant, managed to save up to buy a property in London of all places then what's your excuse huh?
Maybe if you spent less on smartphones and pumpkin spiced lattes you'd have saved enough too...
This is sarcasm

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Few points here (applicable to America but may also apply across the pond)

Depending on where you move, rent may go down. You can decide to buy a property in retirement using equity that has been built up. And yes you're no longer paying down a mortgage + interest, but taxes and insurance will always be there, and will most certainly grow over time. Maintenance on an aging property will be substantial.

With the rent vs buy debate, there is no "right" answer. It is perfectly fine to buy a house for sentimental reasons. However very few people look at it the following way:

When you rent, you are "throwing away" the rent every month. You will never see that money again. Let's call this quantity A.

When you buy, you will never see the following money again:

Interest paid on the mortgage
Property taxes
Opportunity cost of the down payment (that money could be used for something else (building equity in the stock market for example))
Maintenance that doesn't raise the property value
Closing/legal/inspection costs during buying
And more... Let's call this quantity B.

Now usually (not always!!), the cost of B most of the time exceeds the cost of A. That delta is money that could, again, be used to build equity in the market or start a business or something... In particular, the stock market has beat real estate over a long period of time. So there are many scenarios where over time, you're better off renting vs buying, when taking the potential of B-A into account. Strictly from a numbers perspective.

The question people need to ask is: is paying B-A extra, worth the drop in monthly expenses down the line, or the feel good factor about owning a home, a backyard for the kids, or whatever other reason is given for homeownership? If so, feck it, buy the house. But I do see way more people going with the old trope of "your mortgage payment is less than your rent so buy" than arguing that rent isn't that bad.

I say this and also believe that for all who want to own a house of theirs, it should not be that difficult or expensive.

Under “reasons for home ownership” the number one should be security of your residence. The biggest downside by far of renting (IMHO) is that your perfect home could be taken away from you at any time, with a month or two of notice. That fecking sucks.

Or is it more difficult for landlords to kick tenants out of rental properties in the states?

 

[OleBoiii]

@adexkola

If Quantity B doesn't include paying back the loan itself(i.e just the interest + the other stuff), then surely it's going to be lower than Quantity A in most cases? At least in the long term.

I feel that if you're gonna put the money you save from renting into an index fund until you have enough money to buy a house/apartment without taking a loan, then you're gonna have to wait a long time. Ideally you'd want to be debt free long before retirement and own the property you live in. Once you're retired, the difference between owning and renting is massive(provided that you have paid down the property).

 

[arnie_ni]

@adexkola

If Quantity B doesn't include paying back the loan itself(i.e just the interest + the other stuff), then surely it's going to be lower than Quantity A in most cases? At least in the long term.

I feel that if you're gonna put the money you save from renting into an index fund until you have enough money to buy a house/apartment without taking a loan, then you're gonna have to wait a long time. Ideally you'd want to be debt free long before retirement and own the property you live in. Once you're retired, the difference between owning and renting is massive(provided that you have paid down the property).

I wouldn't even get 10 years of renting when I divide my interest on my mortgage by what it'd cost for a house of a similar standard to rent here

 

[villain]

Few points here (applicable to America but may also apply across the pond)

Depending on where you move, rent may go down. You can decide to buy a property in retirement using equity that has been built up. And yes you're no longer paying down a mortgage + interest, but taxes and insurance will always be there, and will most certainly grow over time. Maintenance on an aging property will be substantial.

With the rent vs buy debate, there is no "right" answer. It is perfectly fine to buy a house for sentimental reasons. However very few people look at it the following way:

When you rent, you are "throwing away" the rent every month. You will never see that money again. Let's call this quantity A.

When you buy, you will never see the following money again:

Interest paid on the mortgage
Property taxes
Opportunity cost of the down payment (that money could be used for something else (building equity in the stock market for example))
Maintenance that doesn't raise the property value
Closing/legal/inspection costs during buying
And more... Let's call this quantity B.

Now usually (not always!!), the cost of B most of the time exceeds the cost of A. That delta is money that could, again, be used to build equity in the market or start a business or something... In particular, the stock market has beat real estate over a long period of time. So there are many scenarios where over time, you're better off renting vs buying, when taking the potential of B-A into account. Strictly from a numbers perspective.

The question people need to ask is: is paying B-A extra, worth the drop in monthly expenses down the line, or the feel good factor about owning a home, a backyard for the kids, or whatever other reason is given for homeownership? If so, feck it, buy the house. But I do see way more people going with the old trope of "your mortgage payment is less than your rent so buy" than arguing that rent isn't that bad.

I say this and also believe that for all who want to own a house of theirs, it should not be that difficult or expensive.

I think this can be a reasonable comparison for renting vs owning, but some of the pro's of owning aren't just down to money.
There's a level of uncertainty when it comes to renting imo, in the span of just over 5 years I had to move house 3 times because the landlord; A - decided to sell the property, despite assuring me they were looking for a long-term tenant, or B - decided to hike up the price of rent considerably (more than 15%) due to an increase in demand or an increase in council tax & other bills.
Thankfully at these times I was still in my 20s with no kids or commitments, so I was able to find somewhere else without much fuss about location in a short space of time. However, if I had kids who needed to go to school within a catchment area for example, being at the will of a landlord who can change their mind so easily would give me severe anxiety.
I also didn't like living somewhere that truly isn't my own, couldn't paint the walls or make any changes without approval, needed to wait to have anything fixed/changed - for example the washing machine didn't work properly and the landlord didn't believe me for 8 months, I eventually had to film an entire cycle to show him proof and threaten to take action with the third-party intermediary before he would replace it. Again as a young adult these things aren't ideal but not the end of the world, but if I was 40/50 years old in that situation it would feel belittling imo.

The stock market one is interesting, I don't claim to know much about stocks but from my understanding most funds tend to be measured on their performance over the course of 20 years+? That means if you're putting in money into a fund that you otherwise would've put in for property deposits & mortgage payments and such, you won't see optimal return on your investment until much later down the line, and presumably you wouldn't be able to access your money quickly without paying a fee associated with this?
Also, depending on affordability of your mortgage repayments, you can still build up equity in the stock market while also paying off your mortgage too.

Ultimately everyone's circumstances and preferences are different, I don't think rent as a concept is bad, it's mostly the behaviour of landlords which has soured the general perception of rent imo.
And the price of both renting & owning is too damn high!

 

[adexkola]

I genuinely find it hard to believe that most of the time B exceeds A. Where I live, if you have a rent apartment, you don't just pay for sole rent. You also pay service costs to the apartment complex to do maintenance.

But yes, this will obviously differ per country.

Again, not true in all situations, but in a lot of vicinities, depending on the value of your house, annual property tax alone can exceed rent for several months.

Under “reasons for home ownership” the number one should be security of your residence. The biggest downside by far of renting (IMHO) is that your perfect home could be taken away from you at any time, with a month or two of notice. That fecking sucks.

Or is it more difficult for landlords to kick tenants out of rental properties in the states?

If you sign a lease it's hard for the landlord to break it. Once the lease is up (or you break the lease for non-payment of tent) then you have to go.

But yeah if you rent then you really can't get attached to a specific property. And I do think sentimental reasons are valid, as long as they are acknowledged

@adexkola

If Quantity B doesn't include paying back the loan itself(i.e just the interest + the other stuff), then surely it's going to be lower than Quantity A in most cases? At least in the long term.

I feel that if you're gonna put the money you save from renting into an index fund until you have enough money to buy a house/apartment without taking a loan, then you're gonna have to wait a long time. Ideally you'd want to be debt free long before retirement and own the property you live in. Once you're retired, the difference between owning and renting is massive(provided that you have paid down the property).

You'd be surprised... Depending on the size of house (people tend to buy more than what they need), the latter can exceed the former. I'll dig around for a spreadsheet I made a while ago...

Yes, you would have to wait a long time. But then again the standard mortgage length here is 30 years. You "own the house" after 30 years... It's whether you want to buy it now (and pay a shitton of interest + fees) or buy it in 30 years outright (and pay a shitton of rent) and figuring out which option is better.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Generation of losers. If me, an immigrant, managed to save up to buy a property in London of all places then what's your excuse huh?
Maybe if you spent less on smartphones and pumpkin spiced lattes you'd have saved enough too...
This is not sarcasm

Yeah well I own 2. What's your excuse?

 

[MadMike]

Yeah well I own 2. What's your excuse?

Leaving some for others out of mercy.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Property prices have gone bonkers where I am. The top end estimate on Zoopla for my property is almost twice what I paid for it only 4 and half years ago. Mine was in a state of disrepair and I've spent a decent amount fixing it up and extending it but it's still ridiculous. Getting a basic terraced house where I am now is increasingly difficult if you're a first time buyer.

The argument for renting vs buying varies from country to country and region to region within a country. Things like rent controls and interest rates have a big influence as to if it's worth it.

I think in the UK (crap rent controls) if you're in the North West of England which is forecast for healthly price rises in the coming years and with interest rates on the floor it's a no brainer at the moment.

 

[adexkola]

I think this can be a reasonable comparison for renting vs owning, but some of the pro's of owning aren't just down to money.
There's a level of uncertainty when it comes to renting imo, in the span of just over 5 years I had to move house 3 times because the landlord; A - decided to sell the property, despite assuring me they were looking for a long-term tenant, or B - decided to hike up the price of rent considerably (more than 15%) due to an increase in demand or an increase in council tax & other bills.
Thankfully at these times I was still in my 20s with no kids or commitments, so I was able to find somewhere else without much fuss about location in a short space of time. However, if I had kids who needed to go to school within a catchment area for example, being at the will of a landlord who can change their mind so easily would give me severe anxiety.
I also didn't like living somewhere that truly isn't my own, couldn't paint the walls or make any changes without approval, needed to wait to have anything fixed/changed - for example the washing machine didn't work properly and the landlord didn't believe me for 8 months, I eventually had to film an entire cycle to show him proof and threaten to take action with the third-party intermediary before he would replace it. Again as a young adult these things aren't ideal but not the end of the world, but if I was 40/50 years old in that situation it would feel belittling imo.

The stock market one is interesting, I don't claim to know much about stocks but from my understanding most funds tend to be measured on their performance over the course of 20 years+? That means if you're putting in money into a fund that you otherwise would've put in for property deposits & mortgage payments and such, you won't see optimal return on your investment until much later down the line, and presumably you wouldn't be able to access your money quickly without paying a fee associated with this?
Also, depending on affordability of your mortgage repayments, you can still build up equity in the stock market while also paying off your mortgage too.

Ultimately everyone's circumstances and preferences are different, I don't think rent as a concept is bad, it's mostly the behaviour of landlords which has soured the general perception of rent imo.
And the price of both renting & owning is too damn high!

Strongly agree with the bolded

I think my generally positive experience renting has influenced my viewpoint a lot. Owning would be nice but it's never been a priority for me. I'd like to think that wouldn't change even if my marital status changed or if I had kids. The uncertainty is true but that translates to excitement for me, not dread.

Yes, market performance is tracked over the long term. You can invest in index funds that allow you to withdraw at anytime but then you forgo the future returns which feed into the rent vs buy consideration (which is purely financial and doesn't offer the full picture as you've noted).

 

[horsechoker]

Generation of losers. If me, an immigrant, managed to save up to buy a property in London of all places then what's your excuse huh?
Maybe if you spent less on smartphones and pumpkin spiced lattes you'd have saved enough too...
This is sarcasm

Well that's because the government give you a house if you're an immigrant unlike us hard-working British folk.

 

[Zlatattack]

Thread bump:

I'm seeing more and more articles about how "renting isn't that bad" and that owning a house "costs plenty of money too".

To me, this is kinda missing the point. Yes, ownership has costs of its own. And yes, you can rent and build equity through an investment portfolio.

But when you own your home and pay off your mortgage, your monthly expenses go down. For me, that was always the main advantage of home ownership. Selling a home with profit for me was a secondary potential benefit. I use the word "potential" because there is no guarantee that you can sell with profit.

Your rent won't go down, in fact it's likely to go up. So again, the fact that your monthly expenses go down over time when you own a home was always the primary advantage for me and yet, these recent articles completely ignore this point?

100% agree. When you've paid of your mortgage, you save a good 30-40% of your outgoings. This automatically means your cost of living is cheaper. Also you can save that towards a pension. The cost of repair and maintenance on a property is not high. The old saying "Pay less, pay twice". comes to mind. When you are buying stuff for your home, don't buy the cheapest stuff, but look for quality. Also maintain stuff. Boilers don't break if regularly serviced and even when they do, they're £1000-1200 to replace using a decent independent. Who can't afford that once every 10 years? My aunts kitchen units are 24 years old, not a single door looks in bad shape, or closes funny, or has handles fallen off. She looked after her kitchen. It needs repainting because it looks old, but it's still solid.

Don't buy double glazing from Anglian and these brand name crooks, your cheap and cheerful Indian local guy will do them for 2-3 times less. My parents bought windows from a guy for their whole house for 4k, Anglian wanted 12k for the same house.

 

[horsechoker]

100% agree. When you've paid of your mortgage, you save a good 30-40% of your outgoings. This automatically means your cost of living is cheaper. Also you can save that towards a pension. The cost of repair and maintenance on a property is not high. The old saying "Pay less, pay twice". comes to mind. When you are buying stuff for your home, don't buy the cheapest stuff, but look for quality. Also maintain stuff. Boilers don't break if regularly serviced and even when they do, they're £1000-1200 to replace using a decent independent. Who can't afford that once every 10 years? My aunts kitchen units are 24 years old, not a single door looks in bad shape, or closes funny, or has handles fallen off. She looked after her kitchen. It needs repainting because it looks old, but it's still solid.

Don't buy double glazing from Anglian and these brand name crooks, your cheap and cheerful Indian local guy will do them for 2-3 times less. My parents bought windows from a guy for their whole house for 4k, Anglian wanted 12k for the same house.

 

[MadMike]

Well that's because the government give you a house if you're an immigrant unlike us hard-working British folk.

Yeah, but do you know what the maintenance costs were like on those mansions with indoor swimming pools?

 

[Zlatattack]

If i remember correctly, the above legend was Pakistani...

But yeah, trade windows for the win. My parents have trade windows at their house that lasted for like 15-20 years or so before they needed changing. We've replaced them with trade windows. I had trade windows all over my house when i did my extension. Everyone does it, these big companies are all just sales patter, there is no real difference in the product.

 

[McGrathsipan]

My mortgage is a full 800 quid less than what my neighbour is paying his landlord in rent.

That is a savage amount of money every month and he could be fecked out any time

 

[Classical Mechanic]

If i remember correctly, the above legend was Pakistani...

But yeah, trade windows for the win. My parents have trade windows at their house that lasted for like 15-20 years or so before they needed changing. We've replaced them with trade windows. I had trade windows all over my house when i did my extension. Everyone does it, these big companies are all just sales patter, there is no real difference in the product.

It's the same for kitchens and bathrooms. If you go with a company that'll do everything from design, supply and fit then you're going to end up paying a lot more than if you source the materials yourself and get tradesmen on day rates to do the job. Doing the latter is much more of a headache though.

 

[arnie_ni]

100% agree. When you've paid of your mortgage, you save a good 30-40% of your outgoings. This automatically means your cost of living is cheaper. Also you can save that towards a pension. The cost of repair and maintenance on a property is not high. The old saying "Pay less, pay twice". comes to mind. When you are buying stuff for your home, don't buy the cheapest stuff, but look for quality. Also maintain stuff. Boilers don't break if regularly serviced and even when they do, they're £1000-1200 to replace using a decent independent. Who can't afford that once every 10 years? My aunts kitchen units are 24 years old, not a single door looks in bad shape, or closes funny, or has handles fallen off. She looked after her kitchen. It needs repainting because it looks old, but it's still solid.

Don't buy double glazing from Anglian and these brand name crooks, your cheap and cheerful Indian local guy will do them for 2-3 times less. My parents bought windows from a guy for their whole house for 4k, Anglian wanted 12k for the same house.

You do realise you've contradicted yourself here.

"Pay less, pay twice."

Not that I disagree disagree anything really.

 

[Zlatattack]

You do realise you've contradicted yourself here.

"Pay less, pay twice."

Not that I disagree disagree anything really.

It depends on what you pay for. If you pay for sales patter then by all means pay over the odds.

It's like buying appliances and electrics from pc world rather than online. Or buying cleaning products from anywhere other than b&m and home bargains.

 

[The Corinthian]

Berliners vote to seize 240,000 apartments from corporate landlords to cool rising rents


Voters in Berlin have backed a controversial proposal for the Berlin city government to take over about 240,000 apartments worth billions from corporate owners to curb sharply rising rents in the German capital.

The count of Sunday's referendum showed that 56.4pc of voters were in favour of the expropriation measure, while 39pc were opposed.

The non-binding referendum forces the Berlin city government to consider expropriating big, corporate landlords in a radical move to cool one of Germany’s hottest real estate markets, where rents have become unaffordable for many residents in recent years.

The proposal would affect about 15pc of rented apartments in Berlin.


https://www.independent.ie/world-ne...-landlords-to-cool-rising-rents-40892202.html

 

[OleBoiii]

"Seize"

 

[sun_tzu]

"Seize"

well buy off them at commercial rates... with tax payer money

then rent out at below commercial rates

basically giving billions and huge returns to the landlords and having significantly less to spend on other areas because its a massive cashflow drain

240,000 appartments at what £200k each .... so around £48 Billion? with a population of 3.6 million - so around £13,333 per person

I'm assuming this will be commercial loans as they wont have that cash available (probably from the very people they are buying the apartments from?)

 

[adexkola]

Viva la revolucion!!!

 

[MiceOnMeth]

I will never have to rent if i just never leave my Mothers.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

well buy off them at commercial rates... with tax payer money

then rent out at below commercial rates

basically giving billions and huge returns to the landlords and having significantly less to spend on other areas because its a massive cashflow drain

240,000 appartments at what £200k each .... so around £48 Billion? with a population of 3.6 million - so around £13,333 per person

I'm assuming this will be commercial loans as they wont have that cash available (probably from the very people they are buying the apartments from?)

Its going to be difficult to determine the commercial rate though. I can't see forced sales avoiding having to go to the European court.

 

[manc exile]

Watch or read freakonomics. The personal wealth of a renter v an owner is minimal over a period of 30 years.

That may well be true but that 30 years misses the big gains for those buying. Take me for example in 3 years I will have been paying a mortgage for 30 years, currently paying 400 quid in mortgage payments per month. After those 3 years I will have no mortgage or rent to pay and I will then be substantially better off than a renter (the rental value of my house is 900/1000 quid a month).
Buying is better long term, as long as the market does not collapse. There is risk but it seems like a lot less than renting, especially in the UK where landlords are generally arseholes. This is a personal view based on dealing with 12 different landlords in my life and there is only one who was in any way a decent human being regarding how they treated their tennants.

 

[OleBoiii]

well buy off them at commercial rates... with tax payer money

Booooo!

 

[Kasper]

It's not gonna happen because the referendum is non-binding and apart from one party no one in the senate really backs the movement.
What's more important is that the narrative is changing and the neoliberal crying about "seizing and expropriating are gonna make us Venezuela" narrative is losing weight.

 

[nimic]

Generation of losers. If me, an immigrant, managed to save up to buy a property in London of all places then what's your excuse huh?
Maybe if you spent less on smartphones and pumpkin spiced lattes you'd have saved enough too...
This is sarcasm

You white texting motherfecker

 

[RobinLFC]

well buy off them at commercial rates... with tax payer money

then rent out at below commercial rates

basically giving billions and huge returns to the landlords and having significantly less to spend on other areas because its a massive cashflow drain

240,000 appartments at what £200k each .... so around £48 Billion? with a population of 3.6 million - so around £13,333 per person

I'm assuming this will be commercial loans as they wont have that cash available (probably from the very people they are buying the apartments from?)

Can you actually buy £200k apartments in Berlin? I'd think the average rate would rather be half a million or so.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Generation of bakas. If me, an immigrant, managed to save up to buy a property in Tokyo of all places then what's your excuse huh?
Maybe if you spent less on smartphones and love pillows you'd have saved enough too...
これは皮肉です

 

[sun_tzu]

Can you actually buy £200k apartments in Berlin? I'd think the average rate would rather be half a million or so.

ok then lets say £120bn and £35k per person... sounds even less viable

 

[OleBoiii]

Generation of bakas. If me, an immigrant, managed to save up to buy a property in Tokyo of all places then what's your excuse huh?
Maybe if you spent less on smartphones and love pillows you'd have saved enough too...
これは皮肉です

 

[marktan]

USA house prices are up 20% (!!!) Over the last year. Absolutely mad.

I'm 27 and I know barely anyone my age who's thinking of buying a house (grew up in London). I've given up personally, might be possible if I meet someone that has a high paying job but otherwise it's the renting wheel for me.

I fully support protests like the ones in Berlin. If a similar thing happens in London I think there'll be a lot of support amongst those under 35. Constant 10%+ rises supported by moronic government policies (no doubt influenced by all the donor money) and the endless money printing.. eventually the madness has to end.

 

[golden_blunder]

It's not gonna happen because the referendum is non-binding and apart from one party no one in the senate really backs the movement.
What's more important is that the narrative is changing and the neoliberal crying about "seizing and expropriating are gonna make us Venezuela" narrative is losing weight.

A non binding referendum, is that how they work
No “the people have spoken” and “the people are fed up listening to experts”. It must be nice

 

[Jippy]

We're renting out our place from early November if anyone's looking for a two bed in London.