Utd Fans: We now have a BIG responsibility

[VeevaVee]

Let's stop behaving like a cult.

If it at some point it happens that Ole is no longer the right man for the job..then it will be time.

This top red stuff was the most annoying part of the end of the reigns of Jose and Van Gaal.

Definitely this

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

Let's assess Ole over the full length of his tenure here.

Ferguson was the best manager ever if judged over the long term.

Moyes sacked the back room staff, started badly, got worse, lost the dressing room and lost his grip on reality. Had to go.

LVG had no grip on reality to begin with, which was kind of endearing... but the football was terrible. Had to go.

Mourinho brought a bit of swagger back, Zlatan, Pogba, two trophies. Then he lost the dressing room, and I think, fell out of love with football a little. Had to go.

Solskjaer has started unbelievably well, so well that it seems impossible to expect him to maintain that level. I remember reading posts about how he wasn't the man for the job when we were trailing Southampton. His first meaningful loss will come (does a first leg count?) we need to back him when it does. Taking things to levels of backing him through relegation would be crazy though!

 

[MikeKing]

I agree with the OP. You all can't wait to throw around the 'top red' label. No need to exaggerate his points. They are valid if taken at face value. There exist countless scenarios we might find ourself in where we'll have to rebuild our squad down the line, or have to change things and we'll have to face these questions. In one scenario Ole might go 2 seasons without top 4, do we fire him or stick by him? We might stick by him and watch him win the league next 3 seasons after that, or crash and burn, in which we'll have to go hunt for a new manager anyways.

My feeling is. I would rather take the risk with Ole at this point, and have some patience. That view might change, but Ole despite lacking of a bit of experience has showed he is a young and talented manager that gets the club. We have had 3 older short term solutions, I think it is fair to give him a chance to turn things around if it comes to that scenario. Ole has instilled the belief in our fanbase again, so I think it is only fair the fans repay that by showing the same belief in him. Nobody believed in us this season, Ole did. When nobody believes in Ole, we as fans should do that! I am certainly willing to give him more leeway than other managers, but he has to keep proving he is worthy of that loyalty too of course. If he relegates us next season we should not blindly follow him down there, but nobody is advocating for that are they?

 

[Skills]

Let's stop behaving like a cult.

If it at some point it happens that Ole is no longer the right man for the job..then it will be time.

This top red stuff was the most annoying part of the end of the reigns of Jose and Van Gaal.

This.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

I agree with the OP. You all can't wait to throw around the 'top red' label. No need to exaggerate his points. They are valid if taken at face value. There exist countless scenarios we might find ourself in where we'll have to rebuild our squad down the line, or have to change things and we'll have to face these questions. In one scenario Ole might go 2 seasons without top 4, do we fire him or stick by him? We might stick by him and watch him win the league next 3 seasons after that, or crash and burn, in which we'll have to go hunt for a new manager anyways.

My feeling is. I would rather take the risk with Ole at this point, and have some patience. That view might change, but Ole despite lacking of a bit of experience has showed he is a young and talented manager that gets the club. We have had 3 older short term solutions, I think it is fair to give him a chance to turn things around if it comes to that scenario. Ole has instilled the belief in our fanbase again, so I think it is only fair the fans repay that by showing the same belief in him. Nobody believed in us this season, Ole did. When nobody believes in Ole, we as fans should do that! I am certainly willing to give him more leeway than other managers, but he has to keep proving he is worthy of that loyalty too of course. If he relegates us next season we should not blindly follow him down there, but nobody is advocating for that are they?

2 seasons without top 4 surely he’d have to go?
We can’t as one of the biggest clubs in the world keep missing out on the biggest club competition in the world- look what it meant to the club & fan base against PSG.
Also even Ole himself has said we shouldn’t be just competing for top 4 so he’d either resign or expect & understand the sacking

 

[MuFc_1992]

Who do you mean by we? Random bunch of strangers on the internet whose best combined trait is whining or matchgoing fans who gave moyes standing ovation and were singing Jose Mourhino's name after 3-0 defeat by Spurs at Old Trafford. We here at Redcafe mean nothing and have no influence on managers and players whatsoever other than influencing matchgoing fans somewhat who yield the ultimate influence. Jose was sacked only after matchgoing fans grew indifferent to him (I wouldn't say they turned against him that much) so, it feels like you're preaching to the choir with this thread.
'

 

[MikeKing]

2 seasons without top 4 surely he’d have to go?
We can’t as one of the biggest clubs in the world keep missing out on the biggest club competition in the world- look what it meant to the club & fan base against PSG.
Also even Ole himself has said we shouldn’t be just competing for top 4 so he’d either resign or expect & understand the sacking

So you think we'll never have a tough time again then I take it?

 

[Rafaeldagold]

So you think we'll never have a tough time again then I take it?

I’m sure we will but it just depends if we’re heading in the right direction - 1 season out of the champions league is enough to
look at what went wrong & rectify it. 2 is too much for a club of our size in my opinion- i think Ole agrees from everything he’s said. We’re Manchester United & we should remember that & yes support our managers but if it’s just not working (Moyes..) we need to make the right decisions, not any out of misplaced loyalty

 

[Canagel]

Let's stop behaving like a cult.

If it at some point it happens that Ole is no longer the right man for the job..then it will be time.

This top red stuff was the most annoying part of the end of the reigns of Jose and Van Gaal.

Correct.

 

[MikeKing]

I’m sure we will but it just depends if we’re heading in the right direction - 1 season out of the champions league is enough to
look at what went wrong & rectify it. 2 is too much for a club of our size in my opinion- i think Ole agrees from everything he’s said. We’re Manchester United & we should remember that & yes support our managers but if it’s just not working (Moyes..) we need to make the right decisions, not any out of misplaced loyalty

Yeah, I agree with that. To me we can stick by a manager through that if it means something but It has to feel right. I'd say that is down the line if anything so probably prematurely to discuss. I just think the OP had a point here, and was met with unnecessary smugness from fans thinking they are better because "they are not part of a cult" or whatever. Just unnecessary, imo.

 

[Cloud7]

So you think we'll never have a tough time again then I take it?

At a club of our standing, with the resources we have available, a tough time should be defined as not winning the league, or at the very least not competing for it. Finishing out of the top 4 isn’t a tough time, it’s failure.

 

[worldinmotion66]

Let's stop behaving like a cult.

If it at some point it happens that Ole is no longer the right man for the job..then it will be time.

This top red stuff was the most annoying part of the end of the reigns of Jose and Van Gaal.

Well said.

Don't know why some people can't live in the now, rather than always looking back or predicting the future.

 

[MikeKing]

At a club of our standing, with the resources we have available, a tough time should be defined as not winning the league, or at the very least not competing for it. Finishing out of the top 4 isn’t a tough time, it’s failure.

Sure. There is this thing called context though, which plays a big part.

 

[Cloud7]

Sure. There is this thing called context though, which plays a big part.

What context makes finishing outside of the top 4 as Manchester United manager acceptable?

Winning the champions league is one, though you would wonder how we would get in that position in the first place. What else is there?

 

[MikeKing]

What context makes finishing outside of the top 4 as Manchester United manager acceptable?

Winning the champions league is one, though you would wonder how we would get in that position in the first place. What else is there?

Not many. Building for the future the primary one. I don't really want to go further into this either. We do have a squad now that is capable of securing top 4 at the least so failing that shouldn't be accepted. I want to believe our squad is going to get even better in the coming years too, so expectations should grow with that, we have a lot of great young players and a few world class players.

 

[tenpoless]

Our responsibility on Caf is only one : Stop posting xG, xA or any other x's stats. Thank you.

One Love.

 

[Handré1990]

Nope. SAF got all the support and belief in the world...after he’d proven worthy of it. Also seem to remember us losing, at most, 3 games in a row under him. Perhaps it was just the perception, but it still sticking in my mind. He had proved again and again that he was always up for a challenge, no matter how big or small. If, by some miracle OGS reaches that status, you would be right. As of now, we give him a leash of 1-2 seasons to do well enough to be considered a longer leash.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Who do you mean by we? Random bunch of strangers on the internet whose best combined trait is whining or matchgoing fans who gave moyes standing ovation and were singing Jose Mourhino's name after 3-0 defeat by Spurs at Old Trafford. We here at Redcafe mean nothing and have no influence on managers and players whatsoever other than influencing matchgoing fans somewhat who yield the ultimate influence. Jose was sacked only after matchgoing fans grew indifferent to him (I wouldn't say they turned against him that much) so, it feels like you're preaching to the choir with this thread.
'

A footballer's (or manager's) fate is mostly decided on public opinion and that's not just the match going fans. You think United got this big only by the people going to Old Trafford? Of course not. United is a world wide brand with a huge amount of fans. Take away those fans and they're nothing.

While one individual cafmember might not mean much the caf, as a representation of Utd's global fanbase means everything. It's the lifeblood of the club and fans have a right to boo their players or managers when they're consistently shite.

 

[Varun]

@K2K nailed it.

 

[Livewire1974]

Let's stop behaving like a cult.

I am proud to be a member of the cult. United is a religion.

 

[Sterling Archer]

There's a lot of fear and strong emotional reaction here from both sides. Let's just take it step by step and not worry.

Besides, fans here are one thing. The Old Trafford crowd has consistently shown incredible patience and support with managers since Sir Alex long after the cafe has (correctly) spotted the time to dismiss them.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Double facepalm cringe.

 

[K2K]

Sir Alex Ferguson publically and passionately asked you to do this for his replacement and you didn't do it. For shame.

I did.

Its for that reason why I am never doing it again.

Backed the man blindly for 6 months.

 

[Harry190]

For that, we'd have to play away every week or Liverpool at home every week because Old Trafford feels a bit lacking sometimes.

 

[K2K]

I am proud to be a member of the cult. United is a religion.

Didnt you hate Van Gaal?

 

[Foxtrot]

Football fans are very fickle unfortunately so this would never happen. And any top club manager would be sacked over a 6 game losing streak. I don't think even our worst manager Moyes has suffered a 6 game losing streak.

 

[Ban]

Come again?

 

[Ed9]

I so miss not having to think about if the manager is the right choice. With Fergie it was given, never in a doubt. I'd love to have that certainity again. And if anyone can bring it back it's Ole and his staff. I'm all for it.

 

[Owen06]

I think as a supporter,it's our responsibility to get behind the club,which also includes the manager. As long as the manager keeps on the good work and does what's best for the club he'll always get the support he deserves.

As a united Fan, the club will always come first to me,if ole continues the good works I'll support him,if he starts underperforming to an extenent of no return like the previous ones we've had, then I'll have a hard time supporting him.

What you also need to know is that, supporting an underperforming manager does not make one a better fan.it only means some are more patient than the others because after all,fans support the club not the manager.

 

[soaphroniscuss]

Rawk knocked of its perch.

 

[the chameleon]

Cringey post!

Yes we all agree about Ole being first choice to take over.

But losing 6 times in a row and 4-0 down to Cardiff at home would make fans question any manager.

This thread should closed as it’s creating an unnecessary debate.

 

[Cloud7]

I so miss not having to think about if the manager is the right choice. With Fergie it was given, never in a doubt. I'd love to have that certainity again. And if anyone can bring it back it's Ole and his staff. I'm all for it.

This is part of the problem right here. We are never going to have this again. Ever. Fergie was an anomaly. Not just for his generation, but for most of the history of football as a whole. We are going to change managers every couple of years. We are going to end up with bad managers, just like every other club. The sooner we accept this as a fan base, the better off we will be.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

er, wrong forum?

 

[Santoryo]

At a club of our standing, with the resources we have available, a tough time should be defined as not winning the league, or at the very least not competing for it. Finishing out of the top 4 isn’t a tough time, it’s failure.

This.

I think people have lost perception of the reality surrounding our club because of the past few years. Finishing outside top 4 isn't just having a hard time, it's downright abject failure and should never been acceptable.

 

[Livewire1974]

Didnt you hate Van Gaal?

I liked Van Gaal, hated his football.

 

[promisedlanchiao]

Bumped as I can’t create threads.

I see this thread is about supporting Ole and the lads. Well, one of the main components of that is singing your heart out at the stadium, and comparing OT now to the 3-0 over barca in 1984 and when I went to Atleti 3-0 alaves (alaves only remember) back in December, its like a library. Such a huge stadium should also be the most intimidating one to go to in the Prem, yet we’ve let the scouse bastards take that title.

 

[Red00012]

Bumped as I can’t create threads.

I see this thread is about supporting Ole and the lads. Well, one of the main components of that is singing your heart out at the stadium, and comparing OT now to the 3-0 over barca in 1984 and when I went to Atleti 3-0 alaves (alaves only remember) back in December, its like a library. Such a huge stadium should also be the most intimidating one to go to in the Prem, yet we’ve let the scouse bastards take that title.

This Anfield atmosphere is a myth, watch any of their games , they don’t sing from the 3rd minute to the 90thminute. I think it’s worse than OT.

 

[RobinLFC]

This Anfield atmosphere is a myth, watch any of their games , they don’t sing from the 3rd minute to the 90thminute. I think it’s worse than OT.

The atmosphere is indeed very far from what it used to be, but you can't deny that it appears to be an intimidating place to go to in the Premier League, we haven't lost there for two years running now.

I feel like most days, any opposition team comes to Old Trafford with the feeling that they can snatch a result, which is the complete opposite from the SAF days. Of course, atmosphere only plays a small part in that.

 

[promisedlanchiao]

This Anfield atmosphere is a myth, watch any of their games , they don’t sing from the 3rd minute to the 90thminute. I think it’s worse than OT.

Look mate, there’s not much else I’d rather change in football than making the bolded bit true. But it’s just not true. While anfield is not a cauldron, its atmosphere shits all over ours. Even that bollocks YAWN before every home game intimidates and has many opponents beaten before even stepping out on to the pitch, hence why they basically never lose at home.