It's mainly the Delta variant which hasn't been around for long enough to be investigated fully. I don't think there's any major question that vaccination has a major effect on the rate of transmission.
Vaccinated Players
- Thread starter choccy77
- Start date
Fair point, I was looking at the RNA vaccines and didn't think to consider the J&J shot. Hands up though, I was 100% wrong.
Sure nobody should be forced to get it. I'm 100% on board with them being excluded from doing just about anything though if they don't want it. They shouldn't be allowed to just go on as normal and mix with everyone else as that puts others unknowingly at greater risk. If they're too dumb to come to the only appropriate solution themselves then they should accept the consequences.
People shouldn't put on a seat belt because it's the law, they should put one on because it'll help give them a chance to save their life. It's the same with vaccines. Being unvaccinated is reckless. You can more easily pick up the virus and spread to others, and have much higher chances of it becoming a serious long lasting problem.
The sooner more and more of the world brings in vaccine mandates, the better off everyone will be. Fewer people will get sick. Fewer people will die. Less strain will be put on the Healthcare system. And more relaxed travel will be opened up again. For footballers, there would be a smaller chance of a mass outbreak happening at your club because someone was an idiot.
Jesus wept.
Probably. As soon as he saw your reply.
Would you like to add something useful to the discussion?
Pretty sure Jesus was all about banning people from based on their life choices vis a vis charity, so there's that
Insulting another member
I never realised they had idiots as staff on here
Made little sense to me, I think it was you attempting humour but like I said made little sense to me. Sorry
This will end well for you.
Whats the worst that will happen? A ban?
Well seems I get 3 points...more than the team got this last week
You will wake to golden blunder standing at the end of your bed with a worrying grin on his face. Terrifying stuff.
I mean, love thy neighbor is literally a commandment. Jesus was also very happy to exclude access to heaven for the rich who weren't charitable. It's barely humour, just pointing out that Jesus would almost certainly not be on the side you think he'd be on.
Only a matter of time before Jesus stuck his oar in.
Whats the problem? It's nothing new. You can't drive a car without a driver's license. You have to prove you can do it. Just like getting a vaccine is proof that you aren't an idiot and putting everyone else at risk by just being around them.
Ah ok.
I dont know what side you think im on. All I was saying was people are entitled to not take the vaccine, some on here want anyone who hasnt had it to be forced out of society...not one person thats for or against the vaccine can say 100% authority that this vaccine works and Im sure thats what the players are worried about.
Of course they can. The vaccines clearly work.
You want to stop people without the vaccine to not be able to live life normally?
Maybe we should mark those who havent had the vaccine with something so that the likes of yourself and others can cross the road when they see them coming?
Does it?
A family friend of mine died 2 months ago despite having both doses, he infected his father in law who now has long covid. What part of his vaccine worked??
Yes they can. Only, like everything established by science it’s not about the opinion of one person. It’s about the overwhelming scientific consensus based on all available data. Which confirms that the vaccines definitely work. There’s literally no doubt about that.
Forced out of society doesn't equal not being allowed to work at a job based on the job's requirements. If I showed up at a building site with no hardhat and sandals on, I'd be kicked off and sacked regardless of my personal choices.
Freedom to make choices does not equal freedom from consequences. I don't think people should be held down and forcibly injected but if they decline the jab their employer should be free to sack them.
Also while you are technically correct that science doesn't conclude things 100%, there is a total consensus that the vaccine works and is safe and effective. Gravity is still a theory that is not 100% accepted; being against vaccines is on the same level.
Can you show me proof that shows 100% that the vaccine works?
I’m sorry but this is a huge misunderstanding of how vaccines work.
No im sorry I dont agree with the last line. Footballers being against taking the vaccine or even normal folk being against the vaccine is for them to decide. We cant force the vaccine on people just because the vaccinated people say so.
Ive got a limited understanding for sure, but the way it was told to them (and me when I got mine) this vaccine means you wont get severely ill and theres less risk of passing it on. The friend of the family just proved both cases to be lies
Maybe lies is the wrong term to use, false would have been better.
No one can say this vaccine (not doctors, not scientists, no one) is 100% effective, maybe thats why people dont want to risk taking it is all im saying
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It depends on your standard. If your standard is "literally everyone who gets the vaccine never gets COVID again, otherwise it's pointless" then that's an impossible bar. If your standard is "if I get this shot, I can reduce my risk of death from COVID by more than 10-fold, my risk of being hospitalised by 10-fold, and my risk of being infected by 5-fold", then here you go:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70...r/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm?s_cid=mm7037e1_w
No one is forcing them. And you can disagree with the last line all you want; it is a statement of fact about how science works and the extent to which vaccination is considered safe and effective by the scientific community.
And sure, you are free to get a shot. Just as your employer is free to sack you if you don't. You can't have it both ways.
It's a matter of probability. Nothing is 100% certain, does that mean we shouldn't bother?
I’m not too sure what your argument against the vaccine is so please forgive me of this feels like it’s going round in circles.
You seem to be saying that because someone you knew died after taking the vaccine that they don’t work?
No vaccine is 100% effective. Literally in the history of vaccination there has never been one that is 100% effective. Yes, some unfortunate people can still catch covid and can still die from it but the data is so overwhelming of the protection it does give to ge majority that it would be fool hardy to turn it down because of a few anecdotal evidence examples.
No what im saying is people have been told take this vaccine by taking it you wont die and you wont cause others to die by being less susceptible to catching the virus (after being vaccinated) this is literally what id been told before being vaccinated, my family friends death shows that wasnt true.
No doubt most are probably thinking im being obtuse, im not. Im simply saying I dont think theres any problem with people not wanting to take the vaccine if they dont want to. I worked all through the pandemic, at that point there wasnt a vaccine I was and am fine thankfully. I meet people everyday vaccinated or not I have little issue with either.
I AM NOT AGAINST THE VACCINE, I am against marginalising some one for not taking it.
Literally nobody was told that the vaccine guaranteed that everyone who took it could not possibly ever a) catch covid or b) die from covid. If that’s the impression you got then you’re seriously misunderstanding the way these things work. Vaccines aren’t magical potions. They’re medicines, which inevitably work better in some people then others. The point of being vaccinated is to reduce the chance of being infected and to reduce the chance of being made seriously unwell. That was always the goal and there’s an absolute shit-load of evidence out there to prove that they have achieved this goal.
Your anecdote about your family friend’s death is tragic but about as relevant to the importance of vaccines as knowing someone who died in a car crash despite wearing a seat-belt. If someone told you that was a reason to never wear a seat-belt again you’d laugh at them. So why are you trying to convince us that knowing one person who died despite being vaccinated is justification for not taking it?
The vaccine is not an invulnerability cheat code. It reduce the probability of getting it, and/or dying from it. The fact that someone close to you died does not contradict the fact that in the vast majority, it is doing its work. Greatly reducing does not mean impossible. It's sad and worrying that almost 2 years in, there are still people rehashing the same false arguments.
How is it even possible to navigate the world without getting these bits of information at some point...
yeah. we’ve got no chance of winning the league but we still turn up every week.
So what you’re saying is, Ole is like a vaccine against success?
he protects us from it but doesn’t guarantee we won’t get it.
I mean I'm around a long time. I'm relatively clued in, no naive dreamer. I have a reasonable handle on my fellow man, or so I thought. But mother of God, I had no idea. The world is full of idiots. Millions of them. And i know loads of them, far more than I thought. I cannot have the vaccine conversation with another soul. Stop talking about it. Stop telling me what dopes are refusing to take it and ABSOLUTELY Stop telling me why.
I think vaccine passports are entirely fair. Canada is making it so that you need to be vaccinated to eat indoors whereas unvaccinated people can still eat at restaurants, but outdoors. Stuff like that.