agreed. Unbelievable from fans here. I guess all the years of winning has gone to peoples heads "No its ok, it has to be ok, we are Manchester United, things will work out, they have to, they must. Nothing is wrong. Its all roses. Trebles back in no time"
Van Gaal accused of 'holding back young English talent'
- Thread starter Drifter
- Start date
I think some people have him just below Adolf and just above Stalin in the Dictator All Stars League.
Because we had no one else last year. Do you think Lingard played at RWB because of his tremendous experience in that position? It's because we had no one else. Same with Blackett. Smalling was injured. And we didn't sign Rojo by then
Romero is much more experienced than Johnstone. He played well in pre season but as last year showed, pre season and PL is an entirely different ball game. When you have an internationally capped keeper then you generally choose him. Any manager will. SAF chose kusczak and lindegard over Amos. Playing Romero over Johnstone is certainly not something to be criticised. Can't believe people actually do that really
Where did I say they're always right?
Clearly they rate Johnstone high enough to put the likes of Lindegard and Valdes on the transfer list and De Gea on 'standby'. As well as playing him as second keeper in pre season.
They just don't rate him high enough to have him start over Romero, which is in no way a bizarre decision as is being made out.
That is true..the task to get back to the top will be much harder than a lot of people are deluding themselves into believing, and some of our decision making in trying to get back there hasn't helped us at all. And our rivals will not be standing still waiting for us to get back up there.
There is a section of fans here who cant debate some of the decisions made , and rather than arguing how in their opinion it is not a poor decision, resort to the "Ive been watching this club for 80 years, I am season ticket holder since the 40's, You guys are just all moaners"
Its classic case of playing the man and not the ball, as the criticism then focuses on shutting down another poster rather than the actual issue being debated.
To be fair, that extremely experienced international goalkeeper played just 11 games in previous season. That, coupled with being a newcomer in the league would be enough for me to feel a bit disappointed that Johnstone didn't get a chance, yeah.
I'm quite glad that it all worked out just fine, mind you. Well, until the last game.
As for coaches, indeed, they have more info about the situation, but LVG also said that De Gea is not mentally prepared to play, and I still doubt that very much.
That's just stupid. They aren't perfect but you are critiscizing them just for the sake of it it seems. SAF for instance instead of buying van der sar After schmeichel bought and wasted years with the likes of Bosnich Roy Carroll Howard foster and a failed experiment with Fabian barthez before going back to van der sar. Does that mean that he isn't competent in finding a keeper?
The same frans hoek has improved lots of keepers including van der sar de gea and valses for starters and is seen as the best keeper coaches. They both are competent people to take decisions. Maybe they may not sign the players you want to but I really doubt they will sign crap players without any knowledge of how they are.
I'm yet to come across anyone who made that kind of a t0p-red argument. Certainly not anyone doing it on a consistent basis. You called the current scenario as rawkish? Complete bullshit, all kinds of opinions are being allowed to be debated, which is the exact opposite of being rawkish.
Oh right. I thought it had. If it hasn't his agent should shut his fecking trap. He's clearly not good enough to displace De Gea and if he moved ahead of Romero in the pecking order to take the number two slot then he'd play even less football.
I agree with this post wholeheartedly. Well written too.
With all due respect, bollocks, and a quick thumb though the debate on here amply illustrates otherwise. It doesn't matter how loud you shout folk who do not hold the same opinion as yourself will continue to express it.
If people want to come on here claiming that some of us are "deluded" and the club is a "circus" then they'll get called out on it.
Smalling and Jones both played that Swansea game last year.
Romero is just as likely to make mistakes as Johnstone despite his so called experience. Like at the weekend, when really for the first time he was called to do something. In the other games he had good protection, same protection Johnstone would have had. And before someone says it may have unsettled our back line, I rather play alongside Johnstone who speaks good English and you atleast played with him rather than someone you never played with and his English is not so good.
I mean his so called experience is being Monaco and Sampdoria number 2.
Ive seen a thread on here assuming a correlation between age and patience of United fans..Ive been lectured about the difference between the patience of season ticket holders and those that arent...Just because you have not come across it, that doesnt mean it doesnt happen as surely you cannot know everything..
Yes, even rawk has its nutters and non-nutters , just like this place has too..I didnt even call out, I wonder why it riles you up so much...
Johnstone and his agent can piss off, too.
I've had enough of average nobodies that haven't made a single mark on the club behaving as if the club owes them a favour.
Johnstone will get his loan when the goalkeepering situation clears up, which is around about now.
If he can't understand why he has been made to stay then he's a bigger idiot than his knob of an agent.
I'd boot him come January.
I've had enough of average nobodies that haven't made a single mark on the club behaving as if the club owes them a favour.
Johnstone will get his loan when the goalkeepering situation clears up, which is around about now.
If he can't understand why he has been made to stay then he's a bigger idiot than his knob of an agent.
I'd boot him come January.
How could SAF buy VDS, when he moved to Juve the year Schmeichel left? Italian football was offering crazy money back then.
You clearly have reading issues. I said just because Hoek and Van Gaal made the decision doesn't mean we can't argue it and they aren't always right.
Now quote me, when I said Ferguson was always right?
Its a forum of different views, and that is my point . You have yours and someone else has his, but the thing is that instead of debating the alternative view that someone else holds, the favourite past time of some is to circle around a poster and at times call him names.That isnt debate, thats bullying.
And the sad thing is that you find as many people complaining about those complaining in equal or even greater measure than those that actual complain. I have no issue with anyone disagreeing with points I have made(Because quite frankly at times I could be wrong), but then when you do, stick to the points I have made solely. That is fair game.
He played in the Championship in the second half of 2013-2014 season and was one of the best keepers there.
Absolutely spot on both of you
I think he is a decent prospect, but how people can label Navas, Cillessen and other goalkeepers as shit and be "outrage" that a goalkeeper with limited experience in Championship hasn't been given a chance in PL?
PS: It's a general remark, I'm not implying that you defend that point.
Not too late for him to go out on loan. Probably will do so after we settle the De Gea issue i.e. whether his head is screwed on right...
I think last summer they accused him of turning his back on the youth system and now they've turned it to 'English'. I'm sure they're human but unfortunately, their jobs are about talking absolute crap. That's their job. We don't care how you do it. We don't care, just do it. Obviously they don't like LVG and they have their own agenda. Perhaps if Wilkinson never brought in that stupid 90 minute rule all those years ago, we'd have more English kids and BETTER quality. It was only then we pushed into Europe and I don't think there's any going back.
It's not that hard to understand if someone want Johnstone ahead of these players.He's homegrown, one of the best if not the best goalkeeper that our academy has produced since god knows how long.He looks like a calm lad on the pitch, the type that will not crumble over pressure and he certainly can improve a lot if given experience.Every great goalkeeper must start from somewhere.
Agree that the "outrage" is too much though.Goalkeeper is one of the position that very hard to judge someone before he really play and usually manager and teammates will feel more "safe" with someone experienced.
Rather excessive to say that he is 'holding back young English talent', but our goalkeeping mess is not helping Johnstone's career. There is no point in him wasting an important year in his development being the third choice keeper at United. He needs regular game time to develop at this stage. Hopefully, he'll find himself a club when the loan window opens in the next few days, and is allowed to leave.
I agree on Johnstone, I would like to see him given a chance.
[QUOTE="Sylar, post: 18082285, member: 2Im not saying start all of them but its almost like if they were bought for big money (with the same talent) they would have been given the minutes.[/QUOTE]
Like ADM at the end of last season or Rojo this season?
Like ADM at the end of last season or Rojo this season?
For shame. It's important United adhere to their long standing tradition of promoting world class academy keepers, like Amos, and Pilkington, and...that other one. Steve, was it? Phil, maybe? You know, that one. He had ears and everything.
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In hindsight you can say he shouldn't have started the Swansea game, but he fully deserved to. He for instance thwarted a 1v1 vs Brugge. As for mistakes, every keeper makes mistakes that they generally don't make. 9 out of 10 times, de gea would have saved the benteke goal in our 3-1 villa win with one hand tied behind his back. So too would the sturridge goal at anfield. Point is keepers make mistakes. Johnstone is a good keeper and I hope he becomes our future no.1 when de gea leaves but almost all managers would have chosen Romero ahead of Johnstone at the start of this season.
And I think he was frozen out of sampdoria due to him not willing to terminate his contract or reduce his wages or something?
hmm... keeper who just played in a WC final or keeper who's barely played in the championship. gee, I wonder.
and I don't care whether he wasn't that great in the WC, he's still at the bloody WC. we're comparing him to a nobody. also, this wouldn't even be a discussion if Romero hadn't let that 2nd Swansea goal in.
and I don't care whether he wasn't that great in the WC, he's still at the bloody WC. we're comparing him to a nobody. also, this wouldn't even be a discussion if Romero hadn't let that 2nd Swansea goal in.
Is the lad not gonna be loaned out now anyway though? Loan window is still open ain't it?
VdS was on the move. We also had the financial capability for buying a top prospect. We could have bought him. But we chose Bosnich. In hindsight it looked like a bad decision but at the time it was a gamble to take and SAF took it. And so did van gaal with neuer but thankfully for bayern they did end up buying neuer just like United did with vds after 5 years
there is nobody in the world who hasn't made poor decisions. But it is the good over bad that decide whether you trust a manager/coach or not. Whether you like it or not hoek an LvG have been instrumental in a lot of youth coming up in various clubs including keepers. Sure he would have also had failures in identifying talents at times but when the players he promoted have later gone on to be very good players in the world, he can be cut some slack in judging talents imo.
(Ps- I'm not intending to be rude to you if it seems that way. I am a little stressed in the class I'm attending
)The thing that holds back english talent is the lack of english talent...
Says the man who supports a team that sends 31 young players on loan every year before they get sold.
The agent is being grossly disrespectful to LVG. LVG is in charge of the overall footballing fortunes of Manchester United, rather than those of any one player. As such he makes decisions based on what he sees fit to that purpose for when the appraisal period comes, he won't be assessed based on whether he furthered the career of anyone footballer. His primary performance yardstick is and will be how United have fared on the pitch. Any thoughts to the contrary, are a bit naive to say the least.
If the agent had a bone to pick, he ought to have gotten in touch with Ed Woodward or whoever acts as the liaison for such matters. The agent needs to act professionally and have his grievances addressed through the proper channels. Let LVG focus on doing what's best for United rather than respond to asinine remarks such as these.
But if the agent is simply testing the waters then, he ought to have read up a little on how LVG handles dissent and idiocy.
If the agent had a bone to pick, he ought to have gotten in touch with Ed Woodward or whoever acts as the liaison for such matters. The agent needs to act professionally and have his grievances addressed through the proper channels. Let LVG focus on doing what's best for United rather than respond to asinine remarks such as these.
But if the agent is simply testing the waters then, he ought to have read up a little on how LVG handles dissent and idiocy.
Duffer was being sarcasticSays the man who supports a team that sends 31 young players on loan every year before they get sold.
Folk are just queuing up to get a jab in to van Gaal in the last 3 or 4 days, eh?
I think goalkeeper is the toughest position to be brought through from the academy. You have to accept that young players will make mistakes, but you can't afford a goalkeeper to make mistakes. It's a very tricky situation. We drafted in De Gea at a very young age, but he'd still shown he can do it on big stages. He'd just won the UEFA Cup with Atletico.
I'd have like Johnstone to be given a shot, but even though Romero is unconvincing, he has top level experience in international football, and Van Gaal trusts him. It's clear that van Gaal is not doing any 'holding back' given the chances he has given to a number of players last season, but it's much harder to put faith in a young goalkeeper at a club of this size.
I think goalkeeper is the toughest position to be brought through from the academy. You have to accept that young players will make mistakes, but you can't afford a goalkeeper to make mistakes. It's a very tricky situation. We drafted in De Gea at a very young age, but he'd still shown he can do it on big stages. He'd just won the UEFA Cup with Atletico.
I'd have like Johnstone to be given a shot, but even though Romero is unconvincing, he has top level experience in international football, and Van Gaal trusts him. It's clear that van Gaal is not doing any 'holding back' given the chances he has given to a number of players last season, but it's much harder to put faith in a young goalkeeper at a club of this size.
Johnstone is quite good, but not good enough to be even second choice here. It was no brainer that Romero started ahead of him.
Time to loan him out, I think.
Time to loan him out, I think.
lollololololol...
you'd have to be a HELL of a goalkeeping talent to get to cut your teeth consistently at United... what's his agent smoking?
you'd have to be a HELL of a goalkeeping talent to get to cut your teeth consistently at United... what's his agent smoking?
My initial thought was that it's a good thing we got rid of Lindegaard otherwise we might have four keepers in the stands.
So here we have a player:
Who is extremely young for a goalkeeper.
Is playing for one of the largest clubs in the world.
Is coached by someone who is regarded as one of the better goal keeping coaches in the world.
Gets to train with some of the best keepers in the world.
Has been retained, despite the fact that the manager is ruthless in regards to getting rid of players he doesn't want.
Has many years ahead to win the starting job.
Now, agents will be agents, but I just don't feel sorry for him if he is upset with that.
As far as a loan, I think Van Gaal is someone who really wants to train his players his way, and Sam should see that as a positive. A loan would be a bad omen for him.
So here we have a player:
Who is extremely young for a goalkeeper.
Is playing for one of the largest clubs in the world.
Is coached by someone who is regarded as one of the better goal keeping coaches in the world.
Gets to train with some of the best keepers in the world.
Has been retained, despite the fact that the manager is ruthless in regards to getting rid of players he doesn't want.
Has many years ahead to win the starting job.
Now, agents will be agents, but I just don't feel sorry for him if he is upset with that.
As far as a loan, I think Van Gaal is someone who really wants to train his players his way, and Sam should see that as a positive. A loan would be a bad omen for him.
As a matter of interest, who was the last goalie that a good premiership side brought though their own youth ranks to be a 1st team regular? I'm struggling to think of one.