Can’t take them seriously at all. There were TWO penalties missed in that match. Not one. Both of which went to VAR review. For some bizarre reason they ended up so obsessed with the Mitoma handball they didn’t even look at the blatant shove leading up to it.
VAR and Refs | General Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
“1” is best solution by a country mile.
I am still 100% pro VAR. The concept is fine but you cannot substitute incompetence. VAR is supposed to give refs a second chance to make a better call.
If not for VAR, we would have had many more shocking decisions this season.
My view is what’s so wrong with re-refereeing the game? A wrong call is a wrong call, it doesn’t have to be clear and obvious.
If not for VAR, we would have had many more shocking decisions this season.
My view is what’s so wrong with re-refereeing the game? A wrong call is a wrong call, it doesn’t have to be clear and obvious.
The thing is — they don’t even have VAR officials. It’s rotating ordinary refs mostly. Does wonders for consistency — huh?
They should just get rid of the VAR room as it's just more people that's incompetent at their job, and just give the 2-3 challenges for each team during each game and let ref on the pitch decide everything it with his linesmen. Just shift the fee those idiots in var room get to the main referee, considering he is the one under biggest pressure anyway.
I’d bin it off. The potential for inconsistency is so much larger with var than without it. Beforehand you had refs that got things wrong, but it was still just one man looking at things in real time, which was the same in every game. Now you’ve got so many opportunities in this drawn out process where things can and do go wrong, or just aren’t applied for reasons clear to absolutely nobody.
I’d consider keeping it for offsides, as for black and white stuff they can’t really balls it up, but for stuff open to interpretation with so many variables, it just seems to make consistency from game to game a lot harder to achieve, which for me is the most important thing.
I’d consider keeping it for offsides, as for black and white stuff they can’t really balls it up, but for stuff open to interpretation with so many variables, it just seems to make consistency from game to game a lot harder to achieve, which for me is the most important thing.
Will say it again, the problem isn't the tech. The problem is two officials saw that tackle and deemed it not a penalty. VAR problems imo, stem from when is an error clear and obvious, how far back should VAR look at play before an incedent, how should replays be viewed (Casemiro) etc.
Things like yesterday are about shit refs.
Things like yesterday are about shit refs.
I haven't heard anyone blaming the technology itself.
The concept, more like. I am still pro the concept. The problem here is an incompetent referee.
So, they admit the mistake... and then what? Nothing.
All of which stems from the tech. I keep saying this until I’m blue in the fecking face but it’s like all you VAR advocates have wiped from your memories the constant disagreement on here over every single contentious decision going back forever. The exact same thing happened on every episode of MOTD and panel discussions during the TV coverage. It’s not possible to look at slo mo replays and come up with a definitive “right” answer for every contentious incident. So there will always be shades of grey. That, in turn, causes all this bollox about “clear and obvious” etc etc etc
Week after week people blame VAR. VAR is the best thing ever happened in football. Problem is the same as was before; incompetent refs. Ref in VAR room is to blame for Brighton penalty. Nothing to do with VAR tech.
Jesus wept.
Yeah, the refereeing and VAR might get punished, but that is no benefit to Brighton and any other team that gets done over by their incompetence.
Do you not agree that every great goal, every match winning performance, every moment of globe-gripping drama over the past 150 years was just a really convoluted run up to people talking about Stuart Attwell twice a week?
The thing about VAR and what makes it bad for football is that it takes away so many emotions. I don’t celebrate goals anymore as I know it’s gonna be reviewed.
Many experts obviously love the sound of it when Webb talks — but from my POV it is just complete bullocks. Listen to what he actually says. Everything is about putting the on field official at the center of things. Webb talks about how in hindsight, he would have wanted VAR at hand back when he was on the job, because it’s impossible to see everything and VAR can come in and help with the worst misses. Sounds good — right? But it becomes a complete nightmare. It’s just not in touch with reality.
Reality is that:
*Refs misses a big part of what is going on, on the field. Howard Webb is obviously blissfully ignorant of that.
*Hence, VAR comes in with high frequency, not just a few time per season for a team.
*Since VAR gets used with high frequency, and the people behind the screens got every chance at getting it right unlike the guy on the field, fans — demand — that they are consistent and get it right.
*Nothing is designed to get consistent calls from VAR. On the contrary, per design, it’s job is to come to diverging results in identical situations — because it shall only overrule the guy on the pitch if his call is “clear and obvious” wrong. It’s basically a coin flip which rulebook to use, depending on if the on the pitch ref saw it or not.
*The on field officials rotate on VAR duty.
*When is a call clear and obviously wrong? This is only established in very basic situations. The classic 50/50 situations, on the replay you can see that the defender perhaps didn’t hit the foot first, but the touch on the attacker wasn’t hard and the attacker went down easy. Was a non penalty call clear and obliviously wrong? Nah, of course not. Nobody want every other game decided by soft pens. Good.
*But according to the rules, all infractions committed in the penalty area is a penalty. How do you evaluate a play if someone is heading out of the penalty area but there is a clear trip? There is no conformity. Wrestling moves during corners. Etc etc etc.
Ultimately, it comes down to this.
Firstly, you must establish what you want from the referee? The game of football? No matter if you see it as a business or entertainment or a competition — I think it’s extremely hard to come away from that in the long run, it’s best to not deviate from the intended role of a referee in a sport. It’s just such a slippery slope if you start to consider factors like entertainment value of a specific call and stuff like that. People have a strong sense of right and wrong by nature, and in the long run it’s very frustrating to follow a game that just isn’t fair for all the wrong reasons.
Secondly, hence, you must establish (a) rules that shall apply in all games from start to finish that everyone can accept and (b) apply those rules.
For example, if nobody want a ton of soft penalties — then you should make that the rule. This is a bit of an elephant in the room, because it leads to the question — can you commit softer infractions against someone leaving the penalty area? Always pull a bit in their arms and shirt? But come on, its not like it’s the hardest dilemma in the world ever. Either you admit that, or change the rule. Start to give indirect free kicks if an infraction clearly does not prevent a scoring chance or whatever.
Now, it’s instead turned into a pure lottery, did the on pitch ref see it or not? Did he make a correct or incorrect call? Who is on VAR duty? Etc.
In addition, the organization should be built to achieve this. Of course the on pitch ref should have nothing to do what the VAR decision. Etc etc etc.
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Well, it is. No more goals from offside, no more undeserved penalties, no more violent tackles unpunished. And it is amazing how people can't understand that and spit on VAR even when Var does right call (which Var does in 99% of decisions).
If offside is by cm then it is offside. But people like you will still cry; "it is only one cm. Football is not the same anymore". These days people even cry when Var makes right call but not in a few seconds.
Var is not perfect. And things like in Brighton game will happen. But it is excellent thing to have in football.
Time the PL get in foreign referees of the best quality
We have the best foreign managers and players, why not refs? All that money they make and they can't even produce good refs.
We have the best foreign managers and players, why not refs? All that money they make and they can't even produce good refs.
We didn’t vote brexit just to get rid of are best refs and bring in forin muck
We have good refs? Since when
I can’t believe they added technology so the referees have the advantage of instant replays to review their decisions and have somehow made it worse. How is that even possible?
Even Cricket has got it spot on.
Even Cricket has got it spot on.
Even if VAR means fewer incorrect decisions (which it probably has) it’s made the sense of injustice at the shitty decisions that remain (and we get a bunch of them every fecking weekend) a million times more intense. Blows my mind that anyone would consider this an improvement, never mind the “best thing to happen to football”.
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The thing is if a layman can see it, a professional should also.
Too many times VAR/refereeing errors are justified by many posters as "mistakes". These same posters have no problem calling Italian or Spanish refs corrupt, but PL refs are not corrupt just incompetent.
Or the no call that is now the standard even when refs stands close to it and see it they don't give these calls anymore. Just wait for VAR to call it or feck it up, it's not the refs fault then I guess.
Don't forget that the original idea in the premier league was the on field referee to simply be dictated to by VAR...
They didn't even use the monitors...
Until IFAB and FIFA forced them to change it. So the start was a disaster.
Riley should have been sacked then.
The referee on the pitch has to be in charge, should be sent to the monitor but crucially must make the decision on their own judgement. Not be dictated to..
Then you have the issue of inconsistent VAR referrals. Like yesterday.
The on pitch referee should be able to request a monitor second viewing, regardless of what VAR thinks as well.
Looks like the refs don't make the big calls because they're waiting for VAR to give it but then the VAR don't want to undermine the ref unless it's a really obvious mistake
That was never a pen for Liverpool, if Paul Tierney had of been sent to the pitchside monitor for another look which is what should have happened I think he might well have overturbed it, justice was done with the miss anyway.
Jota slowed down to basically trip holding and dive.
Exactly. Conversely I think their incompetence will lead to the only sensible solution, VAR is run by a separate body entirely. Refs are there to follow VAR’s instruction and keep the game flowing, be a voice on the pitch and VAR uses it’s full capabilities - complete consistency is all we want.
The issue we need to fix to allow this to really work is run offside lines off players’ tracking chips. Going to be instant and accurate - obviously PGMOL will hate the idea as it gets rid of linesman but that’s the one area it’s so so slow and would streamline the fan experience no end.
Robertson made a bee line to the linesman and put his hands on him. If ever a player deserved an elbow in the face it's him!
This will be interesting to follow considering all the talk about respect towards referees. Everyone can see that he throws elbow for some reason.
That wouldn't work for close calls as their foot could be offside while the tracking chip on their back is behind the tracking chip on the back of the defender
Looks like a flinch to me. Robertson grabs his arm and he automatically reacts to throw his grip off him. Maybe 10 game bans for both and call it even?
This is exactly it. Var is good if it eradicates mistakes. If there will always be mistakes then let it run the way it used to. Least then we can celebrate goals at the time not wait to see what if. Sick of mini celebration then var review then a second cheesy celebration
Even if VAR means fewer incorrect decisions (which it probably has) it’s made the sense of injustice at the shitty decisions that remain (and we get a bunch of them every fecking weekend) a million times more intense. Blows my mind that anyone would consider this an improvement, never mind the “best thing to happen to football”.
After all the work the FA has done recently to enforce the respect and authority of their officials you just know a scouse campaign will see them fold and throw it all away.