VAR and Refs | General Discussion

Cpt Negative

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Unnatural or not doesnt matter when it's in attack right? It's always handball so this should be ruled out regardless of arm position. Or did they change it yet again?
only if it’s the goal scorer. If it’s in the build up they’ll let it go
 

kidbob

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How was Arsenal's first goal allowed? Zinchenko wrestles a Sporting player to the ground.
 

giorno

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Handball in the betis goal was so obvious honestly. A clear case of intentional handball
 

Gio

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How was Arsenal's first goal allowed? Zinchenko wrestles a Sporting player to the ground.
Hard to say. It's unclear if Zinchenko wraps his arms around him, or if the Sporting player pulls his arms around. The second half of the incident the Sporting player grabs Zinchenko's arm and falls to the deck. There was a camera behind the goal line that would have covered the whole incident, we only get to see half of it on the replay.

And saka for their second goal.

It's like they just toss a coin and decide what's a foul.
Don't think that was a foul, he miscontrols the ball and Saka makes the tackle. He gets pushed over afterwards, but once the ball is won that doesn't matter.
 

Adisa

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Can't believe so many in the match thread agree with the penalty award to Liverpool. How is someone supposed to jump without his arms aloft?
 

Pexbo

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Can't believe so many in the match thread agree with the penalty award to Liverpool. How is someone supposed to jump without his arms aloft?
It was 100% accidental. He had his back to the player and was on his way back down from a big leap. How could he possibly have intended to do that?
 

90 + 5min

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Problem was where ball was supposed to go. Its trajectory. So I understand the call and thought it would be penalty.
 

Pexbo

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There’s been sod all stoppages, so where has 5 minutes come from?
 

Changeisgood

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It was a penalty. His arm was already coming down from his leap and then it goes back up. It is an unnatural position at that point.
 

Sandikan

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At one point the key word was "deliberate" with handballs. Somewhere down the line that disappeared from a lot of interpretations.

Today's was an awkward one. Back to the ball, close range, and you can say "Unnatural" position, but how do you jump to head it and have you arms by your side?

It's much better that it was given and missed though. No arguments at all from their fans this way.
 

Anustart89

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Exactly which criterion have they used for the Liverpool penalty to deem the non-award of a penalty a "clear and obvious error"? Absolute shambles.
 

Pexbo

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It was a penalty. His arm was already coming down from his leap and then it goes back up. It is an unnatural position at that point.
The reaction time for him to do that is literally physically impossible.
 

Cassidy

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It was a penalty. His arm was already coming down from his leap and then it goes back up. It is an unnatural position at that point.
Not unnatural as he was turning around. Its a penalty though
 

Anustart89

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Not unnatural as he was turning around. Its a penalty though
How do you come to that conclusion, based on the handball law? You reckon he’s moved his arm deliberately towards the ball from that distance with the ball being headed at him from behind? Genuinely curious, not having a go. Your two sentences don’t add up to me.
 

Cassidy

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How do you come to that conclusion, based on the handball law? You reckon he’s moved his arm deliberately towards the ball from that distance with the ball being headed at him from behind? Genuinely curious, not having a go. Your two sentences don’t add up to me.
I never said anything was deliberate. And the rules don’t say handball has to be deliberate. Read the rules
 

Anustart89

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I never said anything was deliberate. And the rules don’t say handball has to be deliberate. Read the rules
I’ve read the rules multiple times, thank you.

Handball occurs when a ball is deliberately handled or when the hand is struck by the ball in an unnatural position (or the body becoming unnaturally bigger).

That’s what didn’t make sense to me with your statement. You said it wasn’t unnatural (which I agree with), but then you said it’s a penalty anyway. So you must think it’s a deliberate action then? But now you’re denying that too. So how do you come to the conclusion that it’s a penalty if it’s accidental and the arm isn’t in an unnatural position? Given those two admissions, there’s no basis for considering it a penalty, and I think that using VAR to overturn a non-call, ie deeming it a clear and obvious error, is a shocking decision that won’t get mentioned much.

https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/fouls-and-misconduct/#direct-free-kick
 

Cassidy

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I’ve read the rules multiple times, thank you.

Handball occurs when a ball is deliberately handled or when the hand is struck by the ball in an unnatural position (or the body becoming unnaturally bigger).

That’s what didn’t make sense to me with your statement. You said it wasn’t unnatural (which I agree with), but then you said it’s a penalty anyway. So you must think it’s a deliberate action then? But now you’re denying that too. So how do you come to the conclusion that it’s a penalty if it’s accidental and the arm isn’t in an unnatural position? Given those two admissions, there’s no basis for considering it a penalty, and I think that using VAR to overturn a non-call, ie deeming it a clear and obvious error, is a shocking decision that won’t get mentioned much.

https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/fouls-and-misconduct/#direct-free-kick
You shouldn’t go around telling people what they think. If your arm is above shoulder height its deemed unnatural by the rules. Doesn’t mean I think its unnatural.
 

Anustart89

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You shouldn’t go around telling people what they think. If your arm is above shoulder height its deemed unnatural by the rules. Doesn’t mean I think its unnatural.
Are you reading my posts?

I’m confused as to how you deem it natural but still a pen. But I now understand that the rules are irrelevant to your opinion.
 

Cassidy

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Are you reading my posts?

I’m confused as to how you deem it natural but still a pen. But I now understand that the rules are irrelevant to your opinion.
Quite easy if you read the post you just quoted. What the rules deems to be unnatural bears no relation to what me and you think
 

Fully Fledged

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Unnatural or not doesnt matter when it's in attack right? It's always handball so this should be ruled out regardless of arm position. Or did they change it yet again?
They changed it again. That is only the goal scorer now, but this was a deliberate handball.
 

arnie_ni

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It was 100% accidental. He had his back to the player and was on his way back down from a big leap. How could he possibly have intended to do that?
Didn't Eric dier have one similar against him a few years ago
 

Bluelion7

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I was watching the game. It was an unfortunate incident. There's an argument for a yellow for dangerous play but there was clearly no intent to endanger an opponent. Do we want to take overhead kicks out of the game?
If they are not “overhead” then … yeah. The overhead kick ushered in by the likes of Pele ONLY works in light of things like high boot rules because the players foot is linear and essentially takes the space their own head was moments before.

If you let people just randomly spin and karate kick … then you will have worse injuries than Azpi’s.

Havertz is lucky he doesn’t have a cracked sternum from yesterday.

Losing a goal here or there sucks, but having players put in serious harms way is much, much, much worse.

Felix is lucky his leg isn’t shattered, and … it… was .. obvious. And we didn’t even get a foul call, because if he admitted he saw it, it would have to be a red.

I honestly don’t know if this type of targeting is allowed against other teams because I don’t have time to watch every game played. But I’m pretty effing sick of it happening to mine.

It was brutally obvious and bad, and it will continue to get worse if something isnt done by the FA.

In the NFL you can miss things like pass interference, or holding, but if you miss enough “dangerous” plays like targeting, you can face suspension from officiating.
 

Telsim

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Nah, sorry, lads. Call me a conspiracy nut, call me whatever. The bias is so obvious now. It's actually laughable how shameless it is. ABU in full force :lol:
 

Pexbo

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How does Fabinho get away with it every single week?
 

L1nk

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He gets the ball, and his foot slips off the ball accidentally, how is that a red?
 
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Ralaks

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Fabinho gets away with murder. Casemiro slides on the ball and gets red. Refs are completely afraid of ever giving us anything
 

Di Maria's angel

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Andy Carrol gets away with actually injuring an opponent. We get red cards for complete and utter bullshit.
 

dannyrhinos89

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Absolute joke his foot literally bounces up off the ball.

Not even trying to hide the bias now.
 

Malone_Post

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Never in a million years is that a red card. An absolute joke of a decision. feck off VAR.
 

arnie_ni

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I think it's red. Yes he got the ball but he followed through over the top.

Similar actually happened to him against Barca I think and it should have been a red