Honestly it would be quite simple to put down some ground rules. It was introduced to correct obvious mistakes. Show the incident three times in real time from two different angles, one minute maximum. If you can't call it after that, it's not an obvious mistake, and the on-field call stands.
VAR and Refs | General Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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How that elbow was not 2nd yellow is beyond ridiculous. Ref and VAR had showed they wouldn't tolerate dangerous play, intentional or not. They replayed it many times on big screen but VAR decided to ignore it. Quite spectacular that anyone thinks this is "human error"
Ref got lucky media only highlight redcard but not this one
Ref got lucky media only highlight redcard but not this one
Don't think I've seen that happen but assuming your right it's an even worse decision.
I thought it was worth a var check (based on similar instances that have been checked) but ultimately didn't think it was worth a red. The fact var could then have given a 2nd yellow and then a red if they looked at it, but didn't, its a complete feck up.
It's not quite right, but the essence is. The VAR can only recommend an on-field review for something he deems a red card, but as the referee is stood by the monitor all outcomes are available to him. So a referee could be sent to the monitor for a red card review and decide that a) it's not a foul at all, b) it's a red card, or c) it doesn't meet the threshold for a red card but decide to give a yellow.
In which case the player last night would've been sent off anyway since he was on a yellow.
Thanks for clearing that up. Diabolical. Thiught it was a clear fk and yellow live that the ref shouldn't have missed but didnt think much of it and actually didn't realise the severity of the mistake until Savage said it would have been a 2nd yellow
There was a tweet the other day that showed some for and against VAR decisions stats. Can't seem to find it now?
Also, just a thought. Wouldn't it be sexier if VAR was only used in semi-finals and finals? In the league errors will happen, narrow offsides, overlooked penalties but I feel like at the end of the season every team will have benefited a little and probably got a few against them.
Thank you
"Evening out" is the myth that won't die. Some gets shafted more than others. If by some chance you don't, only to get hit by a VAR mistake in a semi-final or final, you'd still be enraged.
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I was always against VAR, but if it genuinely was used to intervene with howlers (abundantly obvious errors that occur once every few games) then I could accept that.
What we currently have is at least the same, probably more, controversy - at the same time as ruining the viewing experience and ruining the joy of scoring a goal. What is the benefit here?
VAR/Referee focus has completely changed the dynamic of punditry/highlights shows.
Gary Nev starting his MNF masterclasses on tactics, mistakes and coaching seemed like punditry was finally being pulled into the century but now it is a relentless focus on VAR.
How it is being used is terrible and detracting from football as a sporting contest and a fan experience.
1) Keep goal line technology
2) Introduce the semi-automatic 3d offsides as opposed to the lines nonsense.
3) Require all video reviews to be carried out in real time.
4) Provide greater autonomy to the on pitch ref and only intervene where it appears the referee has missed sight of an incident as opposed to making a subjective decision that VAR may disagree with and enable them to ask VAR for a review themselves where they are uncertain. Rugby nails how this should be done.
Handball law might need work but I'd say the bigger issue is consistency. Refs need to sort themselves out.
Gary Nev starting his MNF masterclasses on tactics, mistakes and coaching seemed like punditry was finally being pulled into the century but now it is a relentless focus on VAR.
How it is being used is terrible and detracting from football as a sporting contest and a fan experience.
1) Keep goal line technology
2) Introduce the semi-automatic 3d offsides as opposed to the lines nonsense.
3) Require all video reviews to be carried out in real time.
4) Provide greater autonomy to the on pitch ref and only intervene where it appears the referee has missed sight of an incident as opposed to making a subjective decision that VAR may disagree with and enable them to ask VAR for a review themselves where they are uncertain. Rugby nails how this should be done.
Handball law might need work but I'd say the bigger issue is consistency. Refs need to sort themselves out.
The stats are available via ESPN and show that Man Utd have been cost more than any other team
www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/38196464/how-var-decisions-affect-premier-league-club-2023-24%3fplatform=amp
I can see the argument but they're quite different. No defender goes with the offside player last night and he doesn't challenge for the ball. In my opinion they got that right.
The red and 2 handball calls are shockers though
The offside player was right in front of Onana which will have impacted his ability to save the shot, we had one ruled out against Burnley for the same scenario.
Replays for potential red cards being allowed to be slowed down and based on still images is the point for me where VAR just needs to be relegated to checking for offsides on goals.
If the refs can't make their decision in real time speed of the 2-3 angles of it within 30 seconds and needs to see multiple angles of it played at 0.25x speed and being paused then they should be sticking to what originally was the decision before VAR got involved.
Also the fact that intent wasn't at all factored in it is beyond stupid. If Rashford came into a 50/50 challenge like that I get it being a red. But my word how is it on Rashford that the guy sticks his leg in there when Rashford has possesion and is trying to maneuver. Guess players shouldn't pick their feet off the pitch other than to shoot.
If you are VARing Rashford's incident where the hell was the VAR for the elbow on Holjund? It should have been reviewed on potential violent behavior. And where was VAR for the Maguire handball penalty when VAR decided to intervene on the handball penalty Copenhagen had. Where was it for their clear 2nd handball at then end, it wasn't like he was nowhere near the box. He was inside the penalty area when it hit him. The same thing was called twice in the match already but suddenly it isn't a penatly or even worth a VAR check. Why was that? Won't even get into how Copenhagen's 1st goal should have went to VAR for offside for obstructing Onana
I know some fans dont like us going all tinhat like Arsenal and Liverpool fans do but I mean it's just too much now.
If the refs can't make their decision in real time speed of the 2-3 angles of it within 30 seconds and needs to see multiple angles of it played at 0.25x speed and being paused then they should be sticking to what originally was the decision before VAR got involved.
Also the fact that intent wasn't at all factored in it is beyond stupid. If Rashford came into a 50/50 challenge like that I get it being a red. But my word how is it on Rashford that the guy sticks his leg in there when Rashford has possesion and is trying to maneuver. Guess players shouldn't pick their feet off the pitch other than to shoot.
If you are VARing Rashford's incident where the hell was the VAR for the elbow on Holjund? It should have been reviewed on potential violent behavior. And where was VAR for the Maguire handball penalty when VAR decided to intervene on the handball penalty Copenhagen had. Where was it for their clear 2nd handball at then end, it wasn't like he was nowhere near the box. He was inside the penalty area when it hit him. The same thing was called twice in the match already but suddenly it isn't a penatly or even worth a VAR check. Why was that? Won't even get into how Copenhagen's 1st goal should have went to VAR for offside for obstructing Onana
I know some fans dont like us going all tinhat like Arsenal and Liverpool fans do but I mean it's just too much now.
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And this is clearly an incident that should have at least been considered by the referee as to whether he deemed it worthy of a red. It’s a clearly intended elbow to the head, which was only not worse because the execution of it was incompetent.
It was more offside than Maguire was against Fulham. Maguire didn't have a touch or affect anything since the ball went to Garnacho who was onside but because his shoulder was slighy passed a Fulham player on a still shot it was deemed offside. The Copenhagen player was directly affecting and obstructing Onana's line of sight.
Not stats but this type of thing?
https://x.com/lukeshawarmy/status/1722658718221762678?s=61&t=ZvGzfV2Qafn11jKrPfufuA
blocking goal keeper's view is offside offense.
In UEFA league, every handball inside a box is a pen because whatever who cares about the guidebook says. That why last season, Anthony Taylor got ridiculed for not giving it even though he was right
Shit ton of decisions would make sense if they removed penalty tbh, make it indirect free kick or anything but pen. Ball is heading nowhere but randomly hit a defender, let get reward other team 0.75 goal for their minimal effort, seems reasonable.
Pen and redcard need an overhaul. Ref and VAR still can make up a scenario where they ignore fairplay and punish one team but just make decision less impactful.
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Unbelievable that they just disallowed that Toulouse goal, that was never a foul
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We are pioneers!!!
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How is that not a red?
Worse than Rashford’s ‘red’
Consistency just for one week is too much to ask. Don't worry though, "experts" will say two situations are not the same
Exactly
They're not the same at all. Your man there had no real mitigation. It's much worse.
Oh ffs! Yes that’s a yellow card but I’ve had enough of this
Absolutely unbelievable - well actually it’s to be expected!!
It is amazing that something as significant as VAR does not have a set of ground rules. And we need to include far better communication so the paying fans actually know what is happening.
Never mind the question of just how far back you can go in the buildup to call it with VAR.
after watching the liverpool last gasp equaliser being ruled out, i’m var in again.
Last night v Copenhagen..VAR intervened on Rashford after a few mins.. Offside goal player in front of keeper not looked at ? Elbow for 2nd yellow not looked at, 2 handballs 1 no VAR 2nd VAR had to tell ref? There's the difference of communication in 1 game..
It's not working as it's still a subjective call? This bloody word drives me mad ffs a subjective call is different every fecking game, so let the Refs be subjective and only use VAR for offsides that's it.. I hate it heard today more cameras next season to be used ffs that gives them more angles to feck it all up..
It's not working as it's still a subjective call? This bloody word drives me mad ffs a subjective call is different every fecking game, so let the Refs be subjective and only use VAR for offsides that's it.. I hate it heard today more cameras next season to be used ffs that gives them more angles to feck it all up..
It's wild that 5 years after VAR being introduced, we have frequent football watchers that still don't get that VAR looks at all goals with no exception. If the ref wasn't called for a review, it's not that they had not looked at it, but that they did and didn't find anything to review.
Can review entirety of phase of play leading to goal.
If Rashford was given a red (never a red for me) for yesterday's incident, then WTF is this?
The more it goes, the more I see football referees as the types worthy of getting superkicked on the chin by an angry Shawn Michaels.
How they come to that conclusion is a massive issue.
Endo's is worse cos he's trying to win the ball? Rashford had it and was trying to shield it. The refereeing these days is abysmal.
The worst decision the other day was the offside one for the first Copenhagen goal.
He's clearly obstructing Onana's line of sight from an offside decision but because the crowd was up they were like, 'oh, what the hell! Game on!' It's like they conveniently forgot their own rules about blocking lines of sight from offside position because they wanted Copenhagen to ride the crest of the wave following the sending off.
That's not to say the other decisions weren't highly questionable, but that was by far the worst. The only one I agreed with was the penalty, which was soft but at least understandable.
He's clearly obstructing Onana's line of sight from an offside decision but because the crowd was up they were like, 'oh, what the hell! Game on!' It's like they conveniently forgot their own rules about blocking lines of sight from offside position because they wanted Copenhagen to ride the crest of the wave following the sending off.
That's not to say the other decisions weren't highly questionable, but that was by far the worst. The only one I agreed with was the penalty, which was soft but at least understandable.