VAR and Refs | General Discussion

[NieThePiet]

Football is dead if it continues like this.

 

[SER19]

no sympathy for newcastle really. Tried to play as little football as possible for 65 minutes, as standard. Any late goal against them is a justified goal, even with a harsh call.

 

[RedRocket9908]

My first thought was the Martinez one.

What is the actual rule now with it coming off another body part first?

IFAB removed the part about it coming off another body part from the rule

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

It’s an absolute travesty. Where is the obvious error there? What’s the defender capable of doing with his arms there whilst he’s running to give him a good opportunity of maintaining balance defending one on one? Then you have the fact it deflects onto his arm too.
The folks in the VAR room are consistent in only one thing: making sure they have a say in every bloody game. I’d love to hear what the justification was in calling him over to the screen.
Feel for Newcastle there. They rode their luck but VAR was itching to give something- probably told by UEFA too. The Spain decision against Scotland and reasoning has me convinced its being used suspiciously.

 

[Longshanks]

That is an absolutely awful decision. I am gobsmacked and the fact it was overturned aswell! Truly mind boggling. Thought the earlier handball was stonewall by UCL standards but they decided it wasn't which makes the one they did give even more crazy.

VAR, Handballs and penalties are a complete mess and need re-formatting desperately

 

[Jezpeza]

I'm Europe, I believe it's irrelevant whether the ball deflects off another part of your body

thats an insanity. The cross is played at pace from a short distance and hits his chest then deflects onto his arm.

he doesn't even stop the cross with his arm, the ball was heading out for a corner off his chest.

the referee flapped it. PSG players were surrounding him screaming for a penalty every 2 minutes all second half. He gave in

 

[3KDré]

Something's gotta give. It's every week. We can't wait till the end of the season to fix this.

 

[Mickeza]

I’ve said numerous times the handball rule is a total fecking farce in Europe. Eriksen, Maguire and the one we got in Copenhagen were all totally farcical just like Martinez last season.

 

[Shane88]

Madness. The defender has done his job perfectly and been punished for it. Got his body in the way of the ball. He can't control how the ball ricochets afterwards.

If that ref is the best in the world it says everything about how braindead the profession is.

 

[Antarion]

I dont think VAR is the problem here, but penalty rules.

A penalty is 80% a goal. It should be awarded in similar cases as red cards - when the ref thinks a clear opportunity was taken away.
Not for a handball somewhere deflected in the box. That needs to change.

 

[TheGame]

Shocking decision.

 

[kaku06]

Given away against Martinez so why are we complaining? I would be more outraged if it wasn’t given after they gave against us. I hope it massively deflates Newcastle going into our game.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I’ve said numerous times the handball rule is a total fecking farce in Europe. Eriksen, Maguire and the one we got in Copenhagen were all totally farcical just like Martinez last season.

A total fecking farce in Europe and not much better in the PL. For example, the penalty we didn’t get against Spurs. I blame VAR (obviously) for trying to use frame by frame analysis to decipher what should be judged by the referee on the pitch, using his experience and intuition. Was there any intent to play the ball with their hand? The CL interpretation is batshit but I guess it’s at least consistent.

 

[2 man midfield]

I dont think VAR is the problem here, but penalty rules.

A penalty is 80% a goal. It should be awarded in similar cases as red cards - when the ref thinks a clear opportunity was taken away.
Not for a handball somewhere deflected in the box. That needs to change.

Should be an indirect free kick for handballs that aren’t shots on target blocked on the line or something

 

[cj_sparky]

Yeah that is on par from when Martinez had a penalty given again him for hitting his thigh first then hand.

We've had a penalty given against us in all of our Champions League matches. The handball against Eriksen, which probably wouldn't be given in the Premier League. Two fairly blatant ones when Casemiro tripped the Galatasaray player and McTominay for a high boot against Copenhagen. Then in our last game Maguire was given one against him for handball when he raised his hand towards a Copenhagen player to jockey/get a touch on him and then we got given one that hit Maguire's hand first.

European refs seem to have a totally different tolerance on handball, although the PGMOL/ Premier League never really follow IFAB properly anyway.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

In the end this is the best ref in the world and if he is giving it then that is the rule unfortunately

 

[Ekkie Thump]

IFAB removed the part about it coming off another body part from the rule

Unless it's been superseded Guidance from the UEFA board is that handballs shouldn't regularly be given if it comes off another body part first:

In their guidelines for the next season, the Board recommends that UEFA should clarify that no handball offence should be called on a player if the ball is previously deflected from his own body and, in particular, when the ball does not go towards the goal.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Hate Newcastle, but that’s a shocking decision.

 

[L. Robert]

Something needs to be done, this is seriously ruining the sport. It's a low scoring sport, it's an absolute joke that you get a 0.80 xG chance for these accidental handballs.

They did nothing after Liverpool won the CL final 1-0 against Spurs after one of these, FIFA/UEFA must somehow be happy with the current rules.

 

[RuudTom83]

Kits shouldn’t even have sleeves, the players should tuck their arms in their shorts and just wear a tube top covering everything.

VAR at its best! ruining football one game at a time.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

That's an absolutely absurd decision.

Champions League handballs are the worst.

 

[cyberman]

Yeah that is on par from when Martinez had a penalty given again him for hitting his thigh first then hand.

We've had a penalty given against us in all of our Champions League matches. The handball against Eriksen, which probably wouldn't be given in the Premier League. Two fairly blatant ones when Casemiro tripped the Galatasaray player and McTominay for a high boot against Copenhagen. Then in our last game Maguire was given one against him for handball when he raised his hand towards a Copenhagen player to jockey/get a touch on him and then we got given one that hit Maguire's hand first.

European refs seem to have a totally different tolerance on handball, although the PGMOL/ Premier League never really follow IFAB properly anyway.

McTominay was the worst though, a high boot is an indirect free kick, it can’t be a pen

 

[Pexbo]

How long before we see a defender with no arms being picked over a better defender with arms?

 

[Ayoba]

What happened?

 

[Jezpeza]

McTominay was the worst though, a high boot is an indirect free kick, it can’t be a pen

I remember a game years ago where the ref gave Heskey an offside from a throw in. It was like he was so focused on the look of it being an obvious offside he forgot the rules

 

[cj_sparky]

McTominay was the worst though, a high boot is an indirect free kick, it can’t be a pen

I'll have to watch it again, I seem to recall McTominay made some contact with the player and therefore it would be a penalty

 

[Red in STL]

Should be an indirect free kick for handballs that aren’t shots on target blocked on the line or something

Yeah and imagine the discussion on that, was it on target or not, especially when it's a curler that starts out 3 feet outside the post

 

[Mb194dc]

Newcastle game was fixed?

Never a penalty in a million years, not only does the ball deflect from chest to arm, there's no arm to ball movement and the ball only travels a half yard.

It's not deliberate and not in the guidance. What have VAR and the ref seen there?

 

[frostbite]

VAR and the referee made the correct decision. It is a penalty. If the ball was going away from the goal, then it would not be a penalty, but in the Newcastle game the ball was going towards the penalty.

https://apnews.com/article/soccer-uefa-handball-law-460193b2b3e0cc69f329562dc29e365f

https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/med...ll-board-urges-more-clarity-on-handball-rule/

" In their guidelines for the next season, the Board recommends that UEFA should clarify that no handball offence should be called on a player if the ball is previously deflected from his own body and, in particular, when the ball does not go towards the goal. "

"The inaugural meeting was attended by Éric Abidal, Rafael Benítez, Fabio Capello, Petr Čech, Luís Figo, Robbie Keane, Jürgen Klinsmann, Ronald Koeman, Philipp Lahm, Michael Laudrup, Paolo Maldini, Roberto Martínez, Juan Mata, Predrag Mijatović, Gareth Southgate, Patrick Vieira, Rudi Völler, Javier Zanetti and Zinedine Zidane."

 

[frostbite]

Newcastle game was fixed?

Never a penalty in a million years, not only does the ball deflect from chest to arm, there's no arm to ball movement and the ball only travels a half yard.

It's not deliberate and not in the guidance. What have VAR and the ref seen there?

"deliberate" doesn't matter. For many years now. The rules have changed long time ago.

 

[VP]

Who were the morons who made this change to the handball rule?

Football is in such a mess. Different set of rules for different competitions is madness.

I mean the easy solution to this is just to make the penalty box smaller (and why does it even have to be a box?). It's ludicrous that minor infringements in the corner of a box trigger the biggest punishment in the sport. But can't see anyone having the gumption to try it.

 

[Malkovich]

“It’s not the VAR’s fault, it’s the humans who handle it’s fault”

well unfortunately planet Earth is composed of humans so unless we bring in some martians VAR will always suck..

 

[Kingofwinners]

At this stage I would happily support the removal of VAR completely. Football’s a sport not an engineering operation of a murder trial. It should flow in tune with a human experience not with long seemingly forensic reviews that often seem arbitrary anyway.

 

[BorisManUtd]

I do feel for Newcastle. They'd be close to going through that group if not for that penalty decision..-

 

[sullydnl]

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The fact that rules are judged differently in different competitions has always been something that irks me.

But then if they tried to standardise it across all competitions, they'd probably opt to go with the worst version.

 

[Antarion]

Yeah and imagine the discussion on that, was it on target or not, especially when it's a curler that starts out 3 feet outside the post

You need to give refs that much freedom/trust in his expertise skills to decide.
There will always be discussions about everything in this sport but the penalty situation must change.

I mean the easy solution to this is just to make the penalty box smaller (and why does it even have to be a box?). It's ludicrous that minor infringements in the corner of a box trigger the biggest punishment in the sport. But can't see anyone having the gumption to try it.

i agree on changing the box as another ssolution. But not awarding penalties for minor things must be an option for the ref too. (Yes yes what is a minor foul or minor handball? - well similar to last man red card vrs normal foul: decision by the ref if a clear opportunity was taken away by the action or not)

 

[Jev]

The interpretation of the handball rule in UEFA tournaments is so dumb you struggle to believe grown-up people are in charge. Seriously, how can they look at that decision yesterday and not see what everyone else is seeing? Wonder what it will actually take for VAR to be scrapped/reformed because this situation is unsatisfactory for everyone.

 

[Adisa]

I didn’t see the outrage when Martinez was given handball.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

feck all these pricks in the media. Pin-drop silence last year when we finished second in the group because of a diabolical decision.

 

[Ayoba]

I don't remember this much furore when the Martinez handball was given. Now you have every pundit frothing at the mouth