The casemiro one.but I don't think it was ever a pen.he was just knackered driving into box and went down with player near him. I think the handball isn't a pen, but mostly this season those are actually given. The garnacho one on one with defender is a clear pen kicks his back foot which is planted as he's running.not a lot in it but when running it's enough to knock you over and should be a pen
VAR and Refs | General Discussion
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The exact scenario you described, penalty given. First highlight in the video. Was a better angle shown during the match, but it's sickening to watch, Fractured cheek I'm near sure.
Celtics penalty in this game given for a very similar thing Onana did. Around 2min mark
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In fairness, many said AWB’s wasn’t a penalty because it’s never been given in our favour in that scenario this season, or even for other teams (like Chelsea last week).
Then, a week later, the exact same situation happens with United, and the least we can expect is for some consistency. I don’t think that’s mental gymnastics, to be honest. It’s the result of being gaslit.
Indeed! That's definitely how it comes across.
By the rulebook that should have been play on and a goal. At the same time it's ridiculous to me that a player could think he's been fouled, the referee agree and the act of trying to take a free kick could end up with a goal against him.
Ref's fault when it comes down to it. He needs to ensure that everyone is aware he's playing advantage. With Areola on the floor and 2 players standing over him how's he to know? Well no whistle should tell him I suppose, but still, Taylor can do a much better job here.
As Taylor thinks there was a foul, can see that Areola is on the floor, would therefore struggle to see an advantage signal and isn't trying to quickly get on with the game just blow the whistle for a free kick. None of this happens then.
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Onana jumped to punch the ball but AWB gotten to it first and he took the Burnley player to the cleaner, he can't avoid that.
I don't think it's a peno.
Not a foul.
Look at the Liverpool FA Cup game, Bruno was knocked over in the run up to Salah's goal and no foul was given after a VAR check. It was more of a foul than the one that Villa had awarded to them to stop Chelsea winning because the player who knocked Bruno over was running. The Chelsea player was shoulder to shoulder and just stronger.
Certain clubs are held to a higher standard and that's partly why we got nothing today. Those trips on Garnacho would've gone against us, as would the handball.
Where the feck are your shoulders?
https://ibb.co/2tK5KR0
That shows it was blatantly shoulder to back.
I think the big issue here is consistency.
The penalty against Awb for the handball recently was harsh as he might not be able to react at such speed and distance. However if they choose to give penalty for that, I can't see why we were not given the penalty for yesterday similar incident.
Garnacho's was also a debatable penalty but the Var didn't even bother to have another look. It is almost always a foul when you tried to tackle someone from the back as there is virtually no way you are able to tackle that cleanly and the defender didn't even get the ball. I am sure if the situation was reversed, it is likely to be a penalty against us. I just felt that some teams (usually the bigger teams bar City) are always at disadvantage in Var situations and they will need to have a 101% clear cut situation to even get a decision favourable.
If there is such a inconsistency in Var application, then we should just scrap that as it didn't serve its purpose to reduce errors in consistent manner. Let's just revert the authorities to the referee who may make randon errors which have been part of the game that brought joy and excitement to the game.
The penalty against Awb for the handball recently was harsh as he might not be able to react at such speed and distance. However if they choose to give penalty for that, I can't see why we were not given the penalty for yesterday similar incident.
Garnacho's was also a debatable penalty but the Var didn't even bother to have another look. It is almost always a foul when you tried to tackle someone from the back as there is virtually no way you are able to tackle that cleanly and the defender didn't even get the ball. I am sure if the situation was reversed, it is likely to be a penalty against us. I just felt that some teams (usually the bigger teams bar City) are always at disadvantage in Var situations and they will need to have a 101% clear cut situation to even get a decision favourable.
If there is such a inconsistency in Var application, then we should just scrap that as it didn't serve its purpose to reduce errors in consistent manner. Let's just revert the authorities to the referee who may make randon errors which have been part of the game that brought joy and excitement to the game.
So would you say the push on Bruno in the FA Cup was a foul? Most people on here felt that that was a fair goal, even though it was against us.
There's contact with the Villa defender but it's a huge stretch, in my opinion, to deem that a foul and overturn a goal.
If that was us, like Gabriel on Hojlund at the Emirates, they would just say, 'the Chelsea lad has been stronger there'. Two players tussling for the ball, the Aston Villa player backing in and the Chelsea player has every right to use his arms in my opinion.
I'm presuming you are a Villa fan and if you are you can count yourself massively lucky to have that overturned in your favour. If you're a United fan, do you honestly think that we're getting that decision after the Bruno incident against Liverpool. No chance.
Meanwhile we're trying to figure out how Wan Bissaka's handball is any different to a handball not given to us in today's game. You work it out, because frankly I've given up with these farcical decisions. The lack of consistency is a joke.
Had no interest in the match, but watched the highlights just to understand this comment.
If that's not a foul then Onana also only "nudged" the Burnley player for the penalty yesterday.
I don’t have a problem with calling a foul there. It was a push, but would they give a foul if it was in the other box?
This was Sterling against Sheffield Utd a few weeks ago. Not given.
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Anthony Taylor is such a clown
The Onana one was a clear penalty. And Casemiro needs to take at least part of the blame. Why in the world would you in that kind of a situation, defending a single goal lead against relegation candidates, try to head the ball back to the keeper? It just baffles me. What a horrendous decision.
For Onana it was split second and he chose wrong. He will learn from it.
The handball was a clear penalty by the standards set this season. When it is for us the commentators say “what is he supposed to do with his hands?”. When it is against us, they say “you can’t dangle your hands like that, it is harsh but a penalty”.
For Onana it was split second and he chose wrong. He will learn from it.
The handball was a clear penalty by the standards set this season. When it is for us the commentators say “what is he supposed to do with his hands?”. When it is against us, they say “you can’t dangle your hands like that, it is harsh but a penalty”.
If Onana gets the ball it's a different matter, instead he gets the players head, it was a penalty all day long
Consistency is definitely the problem. I'm not sure any amount of VAR or lack thereof can remedy that though. A large part of football refereeing is interpretation. The fact there are many different refs instead of one hive mind coupled with the fact that these are split second (or split minute in case of VAR I guess) decisions means there will always be rather wildly different decisions made in similar situations.
I do also think even handed sane people don't become referees, because it honestly sounds like the most horrible job in the world. Players hate you, fans hate you and the only plaudits you'll ever receive is no one talking about you after a match.
Even ETH seem to think it’s a Penalty
vastly different situations.
Clear pen though surely? Sterling can head the ball if not for the nudge in the back.
God it’s just so awful. Ruins so many moments. Making the game worse. Highlighting the morons in charge.
Dont think there’s much in it.
Other than the fact that in both cases, the person making the push had no interest in the ball and so, both are fouls, these are vastly different situations, yes.
Thanks, I was sat in East Stand Upper Tier, so the Casemiro call was at the far end from me. The first Garnacho call was right in front of me and was 100% a penalty. We all know that it would have been given, if it had been an opposition player.
Why don't they just ask the fans they are supposed to be serving, and put it to a vote.
Do you want to keep VAR? yes or no, I'd be interested to see the outcome.
Goal line technology can obviously stay as it's full proof.
Do you want to keep VAR? yes or no, I'd be interested to see the outcome.
Goal line technology can obviously stay as it's full proof.
Fool*
Was a very clear pen against us, right decision.
There is still some no-VAR professional football here and seeing penalties being given for extremely obvious dives is just unacceptable to me now. Sure, the VAR gets it wrong too sometimes, since in the end there's a human at the screen, but aside from the time sink I really see no downside to VAR. Though ofcourse the implementation is sub-optimal.
Putting things to a vote is vastly overrated anyway, judging by the governments we've been voting for globally anyway
Yea surely refs will get better with it over time. There will be training and experience.There is still some no-VAR professional football here and seeing penalties being given for extremely obvious dives is just unacceptable to me now. Sure, the VAR gets it wrong too sometimes, since in the end there's a human at the screen, but aside from the time sink I really see no downside to VAR. Though ofcourse the implementation is sub-optimal.
Putting things to a vote is vastly overrated anyway, judging by the governments we've been voting for globally anyway
This is one of it's biggest failings. The two against Chelsea and one against Liverpool in back-to-back games costing us 5 points in the last 5 minutes of both games were unforgivable. No acknowledgement by PMGOL. If that's City or Liverpool, the inquest is still ongoing.There is still some no-VAR professional football here and seeing penalties being given for extremely obvious dives is just unacceptable to me now. Sure, the VAR gets it wrong too sometimes, since in the end there's a human at the screen, but aside from the time sink I really see no downside to VAR. Though ofcourse the implementation is sub-optimal.
Putting things to a vote is vastly overrated anyway, judging by the governments we've been voting for globally anyway
Not good enough. Club needs to release a statement. This will just keep going until club says it is enough and put that into the light. Like Nottingham did. No filters. Just out with it and put videos behind it if needed. We have lost so many points because of crazy decisions that it is shocking.
I dunno, at this point being a good referee just seems too hard. The rules are needlessly complex and open to interpretation and virtually everyone does their best to cheat as much as possible. There was a nice interview about this with ex PSV and AZ player Danny Koevermans who is now a ref at the top flight Dutch amateur division where he says he has a lot more respect for refs now that he knows how difficult their job is. And he doesn't have the added pressure of 100 million watching you with their pitchforks at the ready.
it just comes down to one thing for me, and that is has it made the game better, and I don't see how it has, before there were wrong calls on goals, penalties given, red cards, etc, and we're still in this posiion, because as you rightly say it is humans that are making the judgement.There is still some no-VAR professional football here and seeing penalties being given for extremely obvious dives is just unacceptable to me now. Sure, the VAR gets it wrong too sometimes, since in the end there's a human at the screen, but aside from the time sink I really see no downside to VAR. Though ofcourse the implementation is sub-optimal.
Putting things to a vote is vastly overrated anyway, judging by the governments we've been voting for globally anyway
What it seems to be doing more and more is taking away the enjoyment of the instant moment your team scores, as you always have in the back of your mind that it might be taken away, I just don't see how this can be a good thing.
As I say goal line technology is great, and the CL offside technology seems to work fine, so just leave it there.
I hope they're saving them all up for a big end of season montage
It would be quite the watch.Do you compare yesterday’s game to Nottinghams game??
They had 3 stonewall penalties, we had embarrassing dives by Garnacho and Casemiro, the only legit shout was the handball in the end that was extremely soft as well. ETH should just leave
That's a dive though. He doesn't go down because of the minimal contact.
That's not a dive, he was shoved.
Before this season they were rarely ever given. Even the audio of the similar incident vs Wolves at the start of the season confirms this. The Ref repeatedly says, ''we never give those''.
Well I think we can all agree they should be penalties, as they have mostly been this season and will be going forward.
Especially when you're as late as Onana was.
Agreed - the rule has effectively been altered because of the faux furore over United not conceding a penalty.
Garnacho is penalty. Handball is penalty. If you go with how rules where applied previous games when they went against us.
However, I'm not talking about game yesterday versus Nottingham game. This year alone we had so many decisions against us that I'm just wondering about the silence from our club. I'm talking about reaction. Difference. We have a club that reacts and actually shows it cares and we have a club that just sits quietly.