VAR and Refs | General Discussion

[LDUred]

In my honest opinion, PGMOL has decided to give any contentious decisions in favour our opposition, because they are aware that they get absolutely hammered by the press if they are seen to be favouring us.

It's a policy and it has totally fecked us over this season, costing us so many points in the process.

Those marginal little trips that Garnacho fell under yesterday would have been given against us if referred, as would the handball claim.

That doesn't mean it was a handball, it just means that referees are following a strict policy dictated to them by PGMOL to mitigate criticism. The press couldn't care less if a decision goes against us, as they always back the referee's decision, so PGMOL's credibility is not affected one iota by how they referee our games.

We need to wake up a little bit and realize that over the course of this entire season (well, ever since the Wolves home game), we have been robbed blind by referees.

 

[Withnail]

In my honest opinion, PGMOL has basically decided to give any contentious decisions in favour our opposition, because they are aware that they get absolutely roasted by the press if they are seen to be favouring us.

It's a policy and it has totally fecked us over this season, costing us so many points.

Those marginal little trips that Garnacho fell under yesterday would have been given against us if referred, as would the handball claim.

That doesn't mean it was a handball, it just means that referees are following a strict policy dictated by PGMOL to mitigate criticism. The press couldn't give a toss if a decision goes against us, so PGMOL's credibility is not affected one iota.

The handball yesterday is never a handball anywhere, anytime. Hands by his sides, he doesn't move them towards the ball which is booted at him from close range. The Garnacho one wasn't clear cut at all.

You can make a case that the media coverage of decisions in our matches feeds into how we are refereed, of course. That suspicion remains but there are much better examples from earlier in this season and in previous ones, like when Klopp complained and we never got another one all season.

 

[giorno]

The funny thing is that Onana did it again against Wolves away and got away with it; referees would rarely give those without VAR. Even with it, they have ignored it a few times this season. I also remember Neuer's assault on Higuain in a WC final which didn't really cause much outrage at the time.

Notably, Onana does not punch this game in the face

 

[LDUred]

The handball yesterday is never a handball anywhere, anytime. Hands by his sides, he doesn't move them towards the ball which is booted at him from close range. The Garnacho one wasn't clear cut at all.

You can make a case that the media coverage of decisions in our matches feeds into how we are refereed, of course. That suspicion remains but there are much better examples from earlier in this season and in previous ones, like when Klopp complained and we never got another one all season.

The point is whether those debatable decisions would have been given against us. There's no way of proving it, of course, but if that handball was by Harry Maguire, Marcus Rashford or Antony, they would be penalized. Why? Because no-one cares if we get shafted except us.

We're being reffed to a different standard than other teams because PGMOL is worried about the blowback from the press if they're seen to be favouring us. That has cost us so many points this season, and we're talking double figures. Anything contentious goes in favour of our opponents.

 

[Withnail]

The point is whether those debatable decisions would have been given against us. There's no way of proving it, of course, but if that handball was by Harry Maguire, Marcus Rashford or Antony, they would be penalized. Why? Because no-one cares if we get shafted except us.

We're being reffed to a different standard than other teams because PGMOL is worried about the blowback from the press if they're seen to be favouring us. That has cost us so many points this season, and we're talking double figures. Anything contentious goes in favour of our opponents.

You're just going into RAWK level conspiracy guff now. No, there's no way to prove it yet you fervently believe it. Should that give you pause for thought?

 

[Bobski]

PL pens for this season, 7. PL pens against this season, 7.

Conspiracies about policies to ref Utd differently from the opposition is just more of the circle jerk of hyperbole that is so rampant on here.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Its hilarious when you think about it. Onana comes for the ball, attempts to punch, misses, smacks the opposition attacker. Ederson comes for the ball, attempts to punch, missed, takes out the opposition attacker.

No one really knows the rule around this so the only thing we can say is that the NF player was moving faster than the SU player.

 

[sebsheep]

PL pens for this season, 7. PL pens against this season, 7.

Conspiracies about policies to ref Utd differently from the opposition is just more of the circle jerk of hyperbole that is so rampant on here.

TBF, whether or not there is some conspiracy the number of penalties for and against doesn't really prove anything.

 

[Bobski]

TBF, whether or not there is some conspiracy the number of penalties for and against doesn't really prove anything.

There is no conspiracy, there are shit refs and ever changing interpretation of laws. Have Utd on balance had a slightly harsher whistle than other teams this year, possibly, but it is nowhere near as bad as this place makes out.

 

[90 + 5min]

You're just going into RAWK level conspiracy guff now. No, there's no way to prove it yet you fervently believe it. Should that give you pause for thought?

Let me ask you, because you seem to be someone who agrees with every decision referees and VAR make in our games. Just last couple of weeks. How do you see Liverpool and Chelsea getting penalties against us for similiar touches like Garnacho yesterday with different outcome? How do you see WanBissaka handball against Coventry compared to yesterday where we didn't get anything? How do you see Onana penalty (which it was) compared to Ederson today?

Or how do you see Dalot getting red for dissent when referees just let other players be when they yell or shout at them? What do you think about Romero handball against Tottenham? Or ManCity penalty where same situations happens every corner without penalties being given? Or Garnachos disallowed goal against Arsenal because some strange linedrawings and minutes later clear obstruction on Evans than resulted in goal for Arsenal? How about Crystal Palace allowed goal where same kind of goal was disallowed when Evans scored because of player in the line of the ball? And so it goes through this season.

You can rewatch every game this year and you will find tons and tons of decisions where you wonder, why don't I see that outcome in other games. You can call people RAWK level here but that doesn't mean that those people are wrong when the say that we have had some really bad decisions against us this year.

 

[Withnail]

Let me ask you, because you seem to be someone who agrees with every decision referees and VAR make in our games. Just last couple of weeks. How do you see Liverpool and Chelsea getting penalties against us for similiar touches like Garnacho yesterday with different outcome? How do you see WanBissaka handball against Coventry compared to yesterday where we didn't get anything? How do you see Onana penalty (which it was) compared to Ederson today?

Or how do you see Dalot getting red for dissent when referees just let other players be when they yell or shout at them? What do you think about Romero handball against Tottenham? Or ManCity penalty where same situations happens every corner without penalties being given? Or Garnachos disallowed goal against Arsenal because some strange linedrawings and minutes later clear obstruction on Evans than resulted in goal for Arsenal? How about Crystal Palace allowed goal where same kind of goal was disallowed when Evans scored because of player in the line of the ball? And so it goes through this season.

You can rewatch every game this year and you will find tons and tons of decisions where you wonder, why don't I see that outcome in other games. You can call people RAWK level here but that doesn't mean that those people are wrong when the say that we have had some really bad decisions against us this year.

I don't agree with every decision at all. Again it's all hyperbole and nonsense with some of you. Honestly, from what I recall of your posts you don't seem to be able to be objective.

The AWB incident shouldn't have been a pen but there was a subtle difference to yesterday's which meant it wouldn't be overturned once given. He did move his hand towards the ball which was seemingly enough for them to stay with the refs decision due to clear and obvious bollox which I've said loads of times needs to go. The one yesterday the defender arms are down by his sides and they don't move so that will never be given.

The Garnacho one could have gone either way and wouldn't have been over-ruled either way but it wasn't stonewall for me. The defender gets a touch on the ball and Garnacho seems to look for contact, which everyone does.

I've gone through the Onana vs Ederson loads of times so I'm not really bothering again. The two incidents are very different. Jumping towards someone and connecting with their face is different from both players moving towards each other and a head/shoulder collision. Not sure how that can be argued.

You're taking the piss with the Dalot and Romero ones and it displays a lack of objectivity that you even bother to ask me that question. Clearly both decisions were ridiculous.

Plenty of crappy decisions have been made in our games over the season and there have been wildly inconsistent rulings with similar incidents across the whole season in general, not just in United games. However, if you listen to every fanbase there are a bunch who complain that the refs are out to get them in particular. Look in the blue moon or Rawk threads and there's loads at it.

There is an issue in that the media seem to go in on dodgy ones given in our favour and have a tendency to gloss over ones against us but that's the media and they have their own motivations. That doesn't mean it's a conspiracy against United.

 

[NotThatSoph]

Let me ask you, because you seem to be someone who agrees with every decision referees and VAR make in our games. Just last couple of weeks. How do you see Liverpool and Chelsea getting penalties against us for similiar touches like Garnacho yesterday with different outcome? How do you see WanBissaka handball against Coventry compared to yesterday where we didn't get anything? How do you see Onana penalty (which it was) compared to Ederson today?

Or how do you see Dalot getting red for dissent when referees just let other players be when they yell or shout at them? What do you think about Romero handball against Tottenham? Or ManCity penalty where same situations happens every corner without penalties being given? Or Garnachos disallowed goal against Arsenal because some strange linedrawings and minutes later clear obstruction on Evans than resulted in goal for Arsenal? How about Crystal Palace allowed goal where same kind of goal was disallowed when Evans scored because of player in the line of the ball? And so it goes through this season.

You can rewatch every game this year and you will find tons and tons of decisions where you wonder, why don't I see that outcome in other games. You can call people RAWK level here but that doesn't mean that those people are wrong when the say that we have had some really bad decisions against us this year.

It's fascinating how consistently wrong you manage being, it's like you have lost all touch with reality.

His hands were down by his sides.

I don't think AWBs should have been a pen but his hands were out behind his back and while moving them back towards his body he also moved them towards the ball so it's not the same thing. That one was soft as feck but giving us a pen today would have been fairly outrageous.

That was absolutely not a handball

The Dalot one is a straight up dive. Look at the replay posted above. Whatever contact has happened and Dalot is on the way to the ground by the time the Chelsea player, who was not struggling to stay up, decides to throw his legs out and hit the deck.

Have people honestly forgotten what being pushed over or tripped up looks like? It isn't that!

Can you imagine the furore if either of those pens were given against any of our rivals?

Will it be the talking point all week? Will it feck.

Ffs that's as soft as feck aswell.

You can't see contact in either decision. That's absolutely wild

Man feck Var, what's the point?

 

[Withnail]

It's fascinating how consistently wrong you manage being, it's like you have lost all touch with reality.

Nice work... Thanks for the receipts.

I wouldn't have even thought to use my own posts to defend myself

 

[Flying high]

The AWB incident shouldn't have been a pen but there was a subtle difference to yesterday's which meant it wouldn't be overturned once given. He did move his hand towards the ball which was seemingly enough for them to stay with the refs decision due to clear and obvious bollox which I've said loads of times needs to go. The one yesterday the defender arms are down by his sides and they don't move so that will never be given.

That's not actually the case. He did move his arm back towards his body, into the path of the ball. Just as AWB did.

 

[Withnail]

That's not actually the case. He did move his arm back towards his body, into the path of the ball. Just as AWB did.

Watch it again. He moves his arm back after the ball hits him.

 

[Flying high]

I don't think so

 

[thegregster]

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[Withnail]

I don't think so

Fair enough but where's the other angle? He's moving his arm backwards which seems to be away from the ball here. Does it conclusively show him moving his arm into the ball's path? From the angle I saw on MOTD his arm was still close to his body when contact was made.

AWB's arms start off away from his body and he does move his arm towards his body and into the path of the ball.

There's a minute but important difference between the two for me, if as suspected for the one yesterday his hand doesn't move towards the ball. However, either way neither should be pens at all but one was given on the pitch and the other wasn't. Neither were overturned because of the clear and obvious rule which has to go.

This is not proof of a conspiracy.

I'd prefer a system where every review was for a possible penalty. Then each decision could be made objectively without have to worry about whether or not you they were over-ruling the ref.

 

[90 + 5min]

I don't agree with every decision at all. Again it's all hyperbole and nonsense with some of you. Honestly, from what I recall of your posts you don't seem to be able to be objective.

The AWB incident shouldn't have been a pen but there was a subtle difference to yesterday's which meant it wouldn't be overturned once given. He did move his hand towards the ball which was seemingly enough for them to stay with the refs decision due to clear and obvious bollox which I've said loads of times needs to go. The one yesterday the defender arms are down by his sides and they don't move so that will never be given.

The Garnacho one could have gone either way and wouldn't have been over-ruled either way but it wasn't stonewall for me. The defender gets a touch on the ball and Garnacho seems to look for contact, which everyone does.

I've gone through the Onana vs Ederson loads of times so I'm not really bothering again. The two incidents are very different. Jumping towards someone and connecting with their face is different from both players moving towards each other and a head/shoulder collision. Not sure how that can be argued.

You're taking the piss with the Dalot and Romero ones and it displays a lack of objectivity that you even bother to ask me that question. Clearly both decisions were ridiculous.

Plenty of crappy decisions have been made in our games over the season and there have been wildly inconsistent rulings with similar incidents across the whole season in general, not just in United games. However, if you listen to every fanbase there are a bunch who complain that the refs are out to get them in particular. Look in the blue moon or Rawk threads and there's loads at it.

There is an issue in that the media seem to go in on dodgy ones given in our favour and have a tendency to gloss over ones against us but that's the media and they have their own motivations. That doesn't mean it's a conspiracy against United.

I've not said there is any conspiracy against us. I said that we have been on wrong side of way to many bad decisions against us that somehow goes by without anything in other games. I don't think that is right and I would like our club to go out with some sort of statement about it. I don't think there is any hyperbole or exaggeration or nonsens about saying that lots of decision are looked at differently. Despite VAR that should be some kind of brilliant technology making things right when it just make things even more worse.

I'm very objective person. However, I also want to point out how similar situations are being judged differently. It is not like I don't think we shouldn't get penalties against us or red cards or anything like that. If we do that I want to see same outcome in other games for other teams. Nothing wrong with that. I don't want to see two identical situations being looked at differently.

 

[OldSchoolManc]

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Oliver definitely got more than £50 for not seeing that.

I hope the corrupt fekker gets done eventually

 

[Withnail]

I've not said there is any conspiracy against us. I said that we have been on wrong side of way to many bad decisions against us that somehow goes by without anything in other games. I don't think that is right and I would like our club to go out with some sort of statement about it. I don't think there is any hyperbole or exaggeration or nonsens about saying that lots of decision are looked at differently. Despite VAR that should be some kind of brilliant technology making things right when it just make things even more worse.

I'm very objective person. However, I also want to point out how similar situations are being judged differently. It is not like I don't think we shouldn't get penalties against us or red cards or anything like that. If we do that I want to see same outcome in other games for other teams. Nothing wrong with that. I don't want to see two identical situations being looked at differently.

We all want consistency obviously and that's fair.

However, this is the exchange which prompted you to reply to me to tell me I shouldn't accuse people of RAWKishness:

The point is whether those debatable decisions would have been given against us. There's no way of proving it, of course, but if that handball was by Harry Maguire, Marcus Rashford or Antony, they would be penalized. Why? Because no-one cares if we get shafted except us.

We're being reffed to a different standard than other teams because PGMOL is worried about the blowback from the press if they're seen to be favouring us. That has cost us so many points this season, and we're talking double figures. Anything contentious goes in favour of our opponents.

You're just going into RAWK level conspiracy guff now. No, there's no way to prove it yet you fervently believe it. Should that give you pause for thought?

Re the bolded, perhaps you didn't read the post I was replying to in full? I took it that you were defending them and therefore agreeing with them. It's that's not what you meant then then fair enough. We can put it down to a misunderstanding.

 

[arnie_ni]

I haven't seen onanas pen yet so this isn't a comparions but how is anyone saying that's a foul by ederson?

Hes clattered by the forest player, its a city foul all day

 

[Red00012]

Anyone have the Ederson clip today ?

 

[swooshboy]

Kulu needed to go straight down, once you try and stay on your feet you are never getting a pen.

Spot on. And this is such an issue IMO.

They want to reduce diving, yet they give no benefit for trying to stay on your feet. If you are fouled/impeded, then all advantages should go to you.

It's the same with the advantage rule. The ref spots a foul, and then has to make an instant decision as to whether or not there is a benefit for the attacking/innocent team to continue play. and play advantage. So many times, the team that has been fouled ends up conceding possession – usually because the player impeded makes a bad pass.

I think rugby has been guilty of taking things a bit far with the amount of time they allow to see if there is an advantage before they bring it back for the penalty. But at the same time, surely the attacking team should get the benefit of the doubt – they have done no wrong. In football, the referee decides to play on, instead of awarding a definite foul, and then the fouled team loses possesion. Surely if it happens quickly then bring it back for the foul and the free kick – because no advantage was gained.It shouldn't be that you play 'advantage', and then the team loses any advantage.

 

[sebsheep]

Anyone have the Ederson clip today ?

Around 2:10 in that video, probably not the greatest replay.

 

[NotChatGPT]

Hes clattered by the forest player, its a city foul all day

Clattered? good one.

They're essentially jumping into each other, neither of them are standing still and jumping straight up. Def not a pen

 

[Jeppers7]

Around 2:10 in that video, probably not the greatest replay.

It’s definitely Emerson who wipes out the attacker there.

 

[Oranges038]

Clattered? good one.

They're essentially jumping into each other, neither of them are standing still and jumping straight up. Def not a pen

It's fairly similar to the Onana one to be fair.

Ball in the air, defender, keeper and attacker go for it at the same time. Defender wins the header and keeper clatters the attacker with his fists.

It's a penalty yesterday but not a penalty today.

Just like last week handball was a penalty against Utd but the previous day it wasn't handball against City.

 

[Oranges038]

Oliver definitely got more than £50 for not seeing that.

I hope the corrupt fekker gets done eventually

Well, he obviously did see it, he gave the penalty.

 

[sebsheep]

Well, he obviously did see it, he gave the penalty.

Var had to tell him to go look at the monitor

 

[CoopersDream]

It's fairly similar to the Onana one to be fair.

Ball in the air, defender, keeper and attacker go for it at the same time. Defender wins the header and keeper clatters the attacker with his fists.

It's a penalty yesterday but not a penalty today.

It's because it isn't really similar situations, unless you reduce the situation to "goalkeeper colliding with opposing player after ball is cleared".

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Well, he obviously did see it, he gave the penalty.

Var had to tell him to go look at the monitor

Exactly. Oliver is blatantly NOT doing the job He’s being payed handsomely to do. In addition to his ‘Overtime’ jobs.
VAR bailed him out because he was so utterly incompetent there

 

[giorno]

It's fairly similar to the Onana one to be fair.

only seen the clip. Big obvious difference is Sheffield player was not moving towards Onana, they're not coming together, Onana just mistimed his jump completely and ended up punching him in the face. Here, Forest player seems to move towards Ederson, so it's more of a coming together.

Having said that: from that clip, live play looks a clear penalty, replay makes it seem Forest player goes into Ederson

 

[Withnail]

only seen the clip. Big obvious difference is Sheffield player was not moving towards Onana, they're not coming together, Onana just mistimed his jump completely and ended up punching him in the face. Here, Forest player seems to move towards Ederson, so it's more of a coming together.

Having said that: from that clip, live play looks a clear penalty, replay makes it seem Forest player goes into Ederson

There's also no face punching in the Ederson incident.

 

[giorno]

There's also no face punching in the Ederson incident.

Doesn't seem so but the image isn't clear enough and the guy seems to be holding his face on the ground. I assumed he did

But yes, the whole "hitting people in the face" is indeed the most important aspect of that

 

[Withnail]

Doesn't seem so but the image isn't clear enough and the guy seems to be holding his face on the ground. I assumed he did

But yes, the whole "hitting people in the face" is indeed the most important aspect of that

Well it could still be a foul without punching him in the face I suppose but it's a coming together for me.

On the other angle it looks like the Forest player's head comes into contact with Ederson's shoulder. He was injured and so didn't come out for the 2nd half and has his arm in a sling which would back that up.

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[sebsheep]

There's also no face punching in the Ederson incident.

Don't think Onana punched the Burnley player either. He has his hands open.

 

[Oranges038]

Var had to tell him to go look at the monitor

Ah, I didn't see that, only saw briefly the highlights when I got home.

Standard from Oliver then, he's absolutely one of the worst refs in the league.

 

[Withnail]

Don't think Onana punched the Burnley player either. He has his hands open.

Ok well he made contact with the Burnley player's face with his hands?

 

[Withnail]

Ah, I didn't see that, only saw briefly the highlights when I got home.

Standard from Oliver then, he's absolutely one of the worst refs in the league.

Its mad. He was a few feet away looking right at Rice kicking him between the legs.