In real time it appeared one of those intentional tactical fouls to breakup opposition attack. That's how I perceived the yellow given. Replay showed it more incidental and the yellow appears harsh.
VAR and Refs | General Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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Diaz is clearly onside.
There's precedent in Italy for something being reviewed after a minute or so of continued play. I recall a match when a possible penalty was not called, the defending team took possession, and eventually scored many seconds later, think well over a minute later. Video replay was used to check the penalty shout before the restart. Ref awarded the penalty and canceled the other team's goal. It was wild but just.
Say there's a 1% chance that a concerted effort could abolish VAR (in its current form, goal line tech stays, offsides come back when they can automate it). How would that movement start?
Yes, I was talking about Garnacho, who was offside.
Based on? The fabulously reliable ‘technology’ of a person in a room deciding which angle and frame to use. Ok.
The angle is irrelevant, and yes, the technology is fine.
Jota should have got his first yellow about 10 minutes before he actually did for a cynical foul. Non story this one.
It’s not…and that’s your opinion
Yes, the angle is irrelevant. How would it matter?
Because it changes the appearance of where each player is aligned. Then you have someone chose a frame.
The cameras have 50 fps, choosing the right frame is a non-issue.
The conspiracist in me suggests that there has indeed been a concerted effort to undermine VAR and it comes from English referees themselves. They see it as a hindrance to the general flow/rhythm of the so-called 'domestic English' game.
Interesting take considering it was onside.
Presumably the reluctance comes from an unwillingness to accept that the system is unreliable and it's binary nature not fit for purpose which makes all of our personal investment in following this God forsaken sport absolutely futile.
No, it comes from Garnacho being ahead of Gabriel when the pass was played.
Well, yes.
But is that really the case with Diaz? Obviously it looks like he’s onside, but at the same time it’s not exactly obvious that there’s no need for lines to verify it. Normally, we see them verify situations more obvious than this with lines.
Apology issued by the refs body in record time, this thread will be massive by the end of the season. Something has to change with VAR, it’s not fit for purpose in its current format.
Liverpool is being robbed. This mistake is unforgivable.
I’ve actually already forgiven this one
I agree. We've seen similar situations where the striker's shoulder or chest is deemed to be ahead of the defenders foot.
The VAR ref had no business making a guess. It could easily have been the other way around -- goal given, but actually offside by a Garnacho hair. The Lucky Liverpool thread would've exploded.
Not too unhappy about Liverpool getting shafted, but VAR refs now look like chimps with guns. Who knows how badly the next team will get fecked over.
Can anyone explain why the world's biggest football league hasn't bothered to implement the offside tech used in the WC and Saudi League? It seems to work fast and accurately enough.
Anyone who works in any sort of field that requires communication could’ve seen this coming from a mile.
They’ll revise their communication protocols and it’ll be something like “Check complete, on-field decision “no goal, offside”, confirmed”, at which point there should be a confirmation by the referee acknowledging that the check is complete and that the on-field decision no goal stands.
The fact that a clear error can’t be rolled back once the ball’s put in play is a stupid rule. That’ll just set the precedent of teams quickly rolling the ball into play after a controversial situation, and if the ref doesn’t notice there’s anything worth checking then it’s too late.
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because the clubs voted against using it this season (apparently)
That Diaz disallowed goal probably one of the worst decisions since VAR was introduced.
I imagine this has to be a unanimous decision and that sort of technology isn't cheap ?
Article from 3 months ago
I don't remeber this many obviously bad refereeing decisions prior to VAR
With offsides the elephant in the room is what do we want the offside rule to be. Someone drawing lines and zooming in to see if the bulge in someone's shorts caused by the swing of their left bollock in motion was ahead of the last defender or a system that accepts even if a player's entire foot is ahead it isn't an 'advantage' worthy of ruling out a goal for.
The intention of the offside rule to begin with never seemed to be about nitpicking as it is now.
With offsides the elephant in the room is what do we want the offside rule to be. Someone drawing lines and zooming in to see if the bulge in someone's shorts caused by the swing of their left bollock in motion was ahead of the last defender or a system that accepts even if a player's entire foot is ahead it isn't an 'advantage' worthy of ruling out a goal for.
The intention of the offside rule to begin with never seemed to be about nitpicking as it is now.
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Right
But even with a daylight rule Liverpool would’ve been robbed yesterday because the moron in the VAR room was like “oh herp derp I thought they gave the goal”
It’s like Kammy’s in the VAR room.
“Hi VAR what’s just happened there?”
“I don’t know, has someone been sent off?”
I said this about the Casemiro second red last season: VAR should not be used in slow motion for those decisions. Dozens of fouls each match look like leg breakers if you just see a still image. It also means that the way the match is refereed is different: the referee makes decisison in real-time and VAR officials get multiple angles, slow-motion, freeze frame and so forth. It's a complete sham.
We’ll see.
For me, this is still a bit bizarre:
1: None of the people in the VAR room noticed the linesman had actually flagged for offside and that the initial decision was to disallow the goal
2: Even though the initial eye check makes it look onside, it’s still a situation where they will use lines, yet no lines are drawn up and the check is almost instantly complete
3: The only dialogue between the VAR and referee is either “check complete”, which would then confirm the on the pitch decision, or something else limited to never actually saying player onside/player offside
4: No one in the VAR room noticed afterwards that the ref didn’t point for the halfway line to signal kick off, or that the Tottenham players were lining up for the free kick
5: After such a monumental feckup, there’s no wiggle room for them to instantly correct the situation due to miscommunication? I mean, we know that they can sort out situations even after the final whistle, but after miscommunication that leads to a goal incorrectly being disallowed they can’t sort it out because the ball is back in play? I mean, i’d understand it if VAR fecked up the lines and called offside, they can’t come back 2 mins later and go “oh we redid the lines he was actually onside”.
We’ll see if they release the actual audio, i think it sounds like an impressive amount of complete feckups happening at the same time
People on here keep insinuating that VAR has only been shit in England, my brother lives in Munich, they hate it, my cousin lives in Spain, they hate it, and I have seen a ton of awful VAR nonsense in CL and EL games which has nothing to do with English officiating.
However get rid of it and the first time a big decision is messed up people will be screaming for it to come back. At the moment, across every area of football fandom you have an utterly insane level of of conspiracy level horseshit/ advanced victimhood mentality with everyone crying that the refs have it out for their team. Take away VAR and that phenomenon just accelerates.
Would be happily rid of it, keep the line tech, and experiment with other improvements such as expanding the officiating team, get 2 or 3 refs on the pitch along with assistant refs. Should have been the starting point to improve the standards before bringing technology into a game with as many interpretive decisions as football throws up.
However get rid of it and the first time a big decision is messed up people will be screaming for it to come back. At the moment, across every area of football fandom you have an utterly insane level of of conspiracy level horseshit/ advanced victimhood mentality with everyone crying that the refs have it out for their team. Take away VAR and that phenomenon just accelerates.
Would be happily rid of it, keep the line tech, and experiment with other improvements such as expanding the officiating team, get 2 or 3 refs on the pitch along with assistant refs. Should have been the starting point to improve the standards before bringing technology into a game with as many interpretive decisions as football throws up.
So many football fans are flat earthers. Klopp talks a lot of s**t, but he was right in this instance in my opinion, no one deliberately cheated, it was just a couple of really bad decisions, the offside one incredible that they knew it was a goal and didn't correct it when Spurs took the free out instead of a kick off.
Most teams and fans can point to decisions they were hard done by, the top teams just get way more noise.
happened in Man City v Liverpool game few seasons ago, Liverpool possible penalty, game went on, City scored, review went back and gave Liverpool penalty and disallowed City goal, season Liverpool won league handy.
So what will it take for the football community to get together and lobby to put an end to this farce? Seems like it's hated by a majority of fans?
Garnacho is never offside. You don’t draw lines when ball is under way. You draw it when it is first touch directly when ball is passed forward.
There is agenda from everywhere and now more and more ManUtd fans are seeing this crazy decisions against us. And how media behaves. Or how silent they are.
When it comes to Liverpool. There is a reason why people are calling them LiVARpool for some seasons now. However yesterday, I felt sorry for them. This is exactly same stuff we’ve been served against us for couple of seasons.
What I would like is to try to understand how Arsenal and Tottenham are getting so many decision for them this season. Shockingly many. Shockingly bad. Shockingly match-deciding.
We keep hearing how forwards should have the advantage, more goals etc. To this end I would make the offside rule at least done against the players feet, removes all the angle nonsense, perspective and all that, be a lot more straight forward and give the attacking team bit of an advantage.
Also, the frame rate for current VAR is laughable, go have a chat with Pixar or other Hollywood heads, way to dodgy right now to say when the ball left a players foot when talking millimetres off/onside.
Finally, don't send Ref's to the monitor, it just creates more chance for bias or at least conspiracies. If VAR are sending the ref to the monitor, they believe the ref is wrong, job done, rightly or wrongly, just make that call in VAR with the two officials there.
That never happened. In the game you refer to, City had a possible penalty not given, Fabinho then scored from the following counter attack and VAR decided it was a fair goal as they didn't deem it to be a City penalty.
There was no possible Liverpool penalty and no City goal overturned.
Have there been any arrests?
Don’t think I will ever feel as positive about VAR as I do right now.