VAR and Refs | General Discussion | Forest go into meltdown

[HappyCamper]

Red card every week. Studs up in stomach/chest. But we got a referee giving freekick to other team? Impressive.

Let me remind you what you wrote 8 days ago regarding the incident between Doku and Mac Allister:

What are people talking about. What penalty?
Stop being so soft. Two players going for the ball.


"Nah he kicked him. You see free kicks given all the time for that" (random user)

Yes you do. You also see freekick being given for what Ederson did against Rashford and we didn't get anything.
He kicked the ball and then MacAllister went into him.
-----------

By watching the video from Giggsyking a few posts higher up you can clearly see that:
1. No part of Mac Allisters studs hits Maguire.
2. Mac Allister cleary kicks the ball before the collision with Maguire.

On the contrary, you can also see in the same video posted by Giggsyking that:
1. Mac Allister is first to the ball
2. Doku kicks Mac Allister before the ball.
3. Studs are hitting Mac Allister in stomach/chest.

My point is not about the two incidents. I'm not particularly interested in discussing any of them. It's not about "outing" a user either. It's just a randomly chosen example.

My point is that potentially healthy discussions are drowning in extreme bias. Call it RAWKish bias if you'd like. It's pure noise in regard of the key aspects (the incidents) and it should be avoided as much as possible to keep standards.

I obviously do get that this is a United-forum, and bias etc is expected. But I feel that it's been taken to the extremes lately.

 

[LDUred]

I think the 'his studs were up!' is such an overstated and hysterical way of refereeing a football match (a bit like, 'He raised his hands! You can't do that."), so I'm inclined to think that Brooks, like Oliver in the previous week for the Doku challenge on Mac Allister, called it right. Having your studs up should not by definition endanger an opponent, but only when the tackle itself is forceful and reckless.

It's virtually impossible to play the game without your studs being visible. You should be able to compete for the ball with your boots and that will inevitably result in high studs up challenges.

There was nothing particularly reckless about any of the challenges that necessitated a red card (nor was there in Doku's the previous week). McAllister's you could argue was a yellow but it would have been soft.

If two players go for the ball with their heads and clash to gether, and it looks like the Doku challenge or the Gomez one, nothing much is said. Why should it be any different with feet? In most cases, studs up challenges don't result in injuries unless they're wild and reckless. A bigger problem in football is scissor challenges which are often viewed as fair, but they cause more injuries by far.

I think Brooks and his assistants MO was basically to let the game flow and that he was consistent in that regard and it produced a better game of football. He called the MacAllister goal right and got most if not all of the big decisions spot on. Diallo's red was unfortunate but refs get pilloried if they don't punish players who remove their shirts.

 

[Oranges038]

This is not how it works. If the challenge (regardless of how the challenge comes about) is violent/dangerous there should be a card. It's not like VAR see you kick someone in the head but say 'he didn't mean it, look his eyes were on the ball'. It would have a bearing on the severity of the ban though, as if you actually deliberately did that they would increase the three match ban.

And there's probably been multiple threads about Nani's red card where people still don't think it was a red for that reason. There was a new one celebrating the 10 year anniversary last week. And you can almost guarantee people who said that wasn't a red thought Gomez should have been off yesterday.

Both players are gping for a high ball, both go with studs up. One's momentum took him over the other. Wan Bissaka didn't make much of a fuss about it, neither did the referee. He gave the yellow card and moved on. Pathetic to look for a red for that.

 

[simmee]

I think the 'his studs were up!' is such an overstated and hysterical way of refereeing a football match (a bit like, 'He raised his hands! You can't do that."), so I'm inclined to think that Brooks, like Oliver in the previous week for the Doku challenge on Mac Allister, called it right. Having your studs up should not by definition endanger an opponent, but only when the tackle itself is forceful and reckless.

It's virtually impossible to play the game without your studs being visible. You should be able to compete for the ball with your boots and that will inevitably result in high studs up challenges.

There was nothing particularly reckless about any of the challenges that necessitated a red card (nor was there in Doku's the previous week). McAllister's you could argue was a yellow but it would have been soft.

If two players go for the ball with their heads and clash to gether, and it looks like the Doku challenge or the Gomez one, nothing much is said. Why should it be any different with feet? In most cases, studs up challenges don't result in injuries unless they're wild and reckless. A bigger problem in football is scissor challenges which are often viewed as fair, but they cause more injuries by far.

I think Brooks and his assistants MO was basically to let the game flow and that he was consistent in that regard and it produced a better game of football. He called the MacAllister goal right and got most if not all of the big decisions spot on. Diallo's red was unfortunate but refs get pilloried if they don't punish players who remove their shirts.

The Mac Allister one is a nothing challenge.

But the Gomez one is obviously reckless, flying in with that kind of force into someone's head is clearly endangering the safety of an opponent. He has zero control over the challenge. Leading with a straight leg just makes it even worse.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

The Mac Allister one is a nothing challenge.

It really wasn't an "nothing" challenge, it was relatively reckless. In the context of him being on a yellow, and having committed a few offences by that point already, it was particularly not a non-event.

But it was somehow given against Maguire. Go figure.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

It really wasn't an "nothing" challenge, it was relatively reckless. In the context of him being on a yellow, and having committed a few offences by that point already, it was particularly not a non-event.

But it was somehow given against Maguire. Go figure.

I think he knows what he’s done and on a yellow, and goes down theatrically (the collision wasn’t that bad), hoping ref will see it as 50/50… but ref went fully the other way in one of a long list of useless decisions

 

[90 + 5min]

Let me remind you what you wrote 8 days ago regarding the incident between Doku and Mac Allister:

What are people talking about. What penalty?
Stop being so soft. Two players going for the ball.


"Nah he kicked him. You see free kicks given all the time for that" (random user)

Yes you do. You also see freekick being given for what Ederson did against Rashford and we didn't get anything.
He kicked the ball and then MacAllister went into him.
-----------

By watching the video from Giggsyking a few posts higher up you can clearly see that:
1. No part of Mac Allisters studs hits Maguire.
2. Mac Allister cleary kicks the ball before the collision with Maguire.

On the contrary, you can also see in the same video posted by Giggsyking that:
1. Mac Allister is first to the ball
2. Doku kicks Mac Allister before the ball.
3. Studs are hitting Mac Allister in stomach/chest.

My point is not about the two incidents. I'm not particularly interested in discussing any of them. It's not about "outing" a user either. It's just a randomly chosen example.

My point is that potentially healthy discussions are drowning in extreme bias. Call it RAWKish bias if you'd like. It's pure noise in regard of the key aspects (the incidents) and it should be avoided as much as possible to keep standards.

I obviously do get that this is a United-forum, and bias etc is expected. But I feel that it's been taken to the extremes lately.

I do think players are soft nowdays. I still think there were studs up on Maguire with a force behind it. And still think that it was more foul on Maguire comparing to MacAllister. Incidents are quite similar.

Usually I wouldn't say that it is red card but seeing people getting red for less you need to speak up. Of course there will be some bias as a supporter. Yes we know, referees are human and will make misstakes but when you have VAR it shouldn't be that hard. You got to agree that there have been lot of bad decisions against us this year. And previous.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Let me remind you what you wrote 8 days ago regarding the incident between Doku and Mac Allister:

What are people talking about. What penalty?
Stop being so soft. Two players going for the ball.


"Nah he kicked him. You see free kicks given all the time for that" (random user)

Yes you do. You also see freekick being given for what Ederson did against Rashford and we didn't get anything.
He kicked the ball and then MacAllister went into him.
-----------

By watching the video from Giggsyking a few posts higher up you can clearly see that:
1. No part of Mac Allisters studs hits Maguire.
2. Mac Allister cleary kicks the ball before the collision with Maguire.

On the contrary, you can also see in the same video posted by Giggsyking that:
1. Mac Allister is first to the ball
2. Doku kicks Mac Allister before the ball.
3. Studs are hitting Mac Allister in stomach/chest.

My point is not about the two incidents. I'm not particularly interested in discussing any of them. It's not about "outing" a user either. It's just a randomly chosen example.

My point is that potentially healthy discussions are drowning in extreme bias. Call it RAWKish bias if you'd like. It's pure noise in regard of the key aspects (the incidents) and it should be avoided as much as possible to keep standards.

I obviously do get that this is a United-forum, and bias etc is expected. But I feel that it's been taken to the extremes lately.

As you say, one random poster. I think Dokus is a red card all week.. I think yesterdays was/was close to one because of the lack of control. I agree studs will sometimes get shown (thats fine), but players have to have a responsibility of the outcome and their actions

I think the 'his studs were up!' is such an overstated and hysterical way of refereeing a football match (a bit like, 'He raised his hands! You can't do that."), so I'm inclined to think that Brooks, like Oliver in the previous week for the Doku challenge on Mac Allister, called it right. Having your studs up should not by definition endanger an opponent, but only when the tackle itself is forceful and reckless.

It's virtually impossible to play the game without your studs being visible. You should be able to compete for the ball with your boots and that will inevitably result in high studs up challenges.

There was nothing particularly reckless about any of the challenges that necessitated a red card (nor was there in Doku's the previous week). McAllister's you could argue was a yellow but it would have been soft.

If two players go for the ball with their heads and clash to gether, and it looks like the Doku challenge or the Gomez one, nothing much is said. Why should it be any different with feet? In most cases, studs up challenges don't result in injuries unless they're wild and reckless. A bigger problem in football is scissor challenges which are often viewed as fair, but they cause more injuries by far.

I think Brooks and his assistants MO was basically to let the game flow and that he was consistent in that regard and it produced a better game of football. He called the MacAllister goal right and got most if not all of the big decisions spot on. Diallo's red was unfortunate but refs get pilloried if they don't punish players who remove their shirts.

Which it was? It’s easy to focus on the studs up element and forget the momentum/height going into that challenge

(and i see that certain poster (not you) is still being a wum. You’d think they’d have some variety in their stupidity but apparently not )

 

[tomaldinho1]

And there's probably been multiple threads about Nani's red card where people still don't think it was a red for that reason. There was a new one celebrating the 10 year anniversary last week. And you can almost guarantee people who said that wasn't a red thought Gomez should have been off yesterday.

Both players are going for a high ball, both go with studs up. One's momentum took him over the other. Wan Bissaka didn't make much of a fuss about it, neither did the referee. He gave the yellow card and moved on. Pathetic to look for a red for that.

Yeah I'm just saying your explanation isn't how it works. This specific challenge just depends on how bad you think the flying hip to the head is.

Nani's I thought would be in today's game but then Doku's wasn't, that's the issue right now with reffing standards - there is a lack of consistency and a lot of question marks about certain refs when they ref certain teams.

 

[Desert Eagle]

The first Amad yellow is a travesty. Why the hell is he supposed to let the other team get a ten yard advantage?

 

[Giggsyking]

Let me remind you what you wrote 8 days ago regarding the incident between Doku and Mac Allister:

What are people talking about. What penalty?
Stop being so soft. Two players going for the ball.


"Nah he kicked him. You see free kicks given all the time for that" (random user)

Yes you do. You also see freekick being given for what Ederson did against Rashford and we didn't get anything.
He kicked the ball and then MacAllister went into him.
-----------

By watching the video from Giggsyking a few posts higher up you can clearly see that:
1. No part of Mac Allisters studs hits Maguire.
2. Mac Allister cleary kicks the ball before the collision with Maguire.

On the contrary, you can also see in the same video posted by Giggsyking that:
1. Mac Allister is first to the ball
2. Doku kicks Mac Allister before the ball.
3. Studs are hitting Mac Allister in stomach/chest.

My point is not about the two incidents. I'm not particularly interested in discussing any of them. It's not about "outing" a user either. It's just a randomly chosen example.

My point is that potentially healthy discussions are drowning in extreme bias. Call it RAWKish bias if you'd like. It's pure noise in regard of the key aspects (the incidents) and it should be avoided as much as possible to keep standards.

I obviously do get that this is a United-forum, and bias etc is expected. But I feel that it's been taken to the extremes lately.

It is a dangerous play, getting the ball have zero effect on the decision. This should have been a second yellow card and a sending off.

 

[Giggsyking]

As you say, one random poster. I think Dokus is a red card all week.. I think yesterdays was/was close to one because of the lack of control. I agree studs will sometimes get shown (thats fine), but players have to have a responsibility of the outcome and their actions

Which it was? It’s easy to focus on the studs up element and forget the momentum/height going into that challenge

(and i see that certain poster (not you) is still being a wum. You’d think they’d have some variety in their stupidity but apparently not )

Mac was already on a yellow, he should have seen another yellow and be sent off.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Mac was already on a yellow, he should have seen another yellow and be sent off.

Ahuh… wasn’t talking about him though. Probably not clear, meant the tackle on AWB

 

[stevoc]

The dropkick on Maguire was a red card, ridiculous decision.

No idea how that wasn't a foul on Bruno either. He literally just runs up behind him and shoves him to the ground. It's called pressing not pushing.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Neil Mellor ranting about the assistant ref not flagging offside here but the fact is the assistant cant flag because VVD cleared the ball before any offside offence was comitted, being in an offside position is not an offence and the ball hasnt reeched the player in an offside position so he hasnt attempted to play it or prevented anyone else from playing it.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Fr. Todd Unctious]

Liverpool on Mic'd up again tonight regarding the City game last week. Is it me or are they more often than not chosen for Mic'd up. Seem to be on it almost every time

 

[arnie_ni]

It really wasn't an "nothing" challenge, it was relatively reckless. In the context of him being on a yellow, and having committed a few offences by that point already, it was particularly not a non-event.

But it was somehow given against Maguire. Go figure.

Yea it should probably have been a 2nd yellow at most. It's not a straight red,.but I'm not sure anyone has claimed it should have been either.

 

[arnie_ni]

Liverpool on Mic'd up again tonight regarding the City game last week. Is it me or are they more often than not chosen for Mic'd up. Seem to be on it almost every time

What decision was it

 

[Fr. Todd Unctious]

What decision was it

Whether they should have had a last min penalty

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Whether they should have had a last min penalty

That was a massive decision to be fair

 

[arnie_ni]

Whether they should have had a last min penalty

What was the outcome?

 

[Bubz27]

Neil Mellor ranting about the assistant ref not flagging offside here but the fact is the assistant cant flag because VVD cleared the ball before any offside offence was comitted, being in an offside position is not an offence and the ball hasnt reeched the player in an offside position so he hasnt attempted to play it or prevented anyone else from playing it.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Anyone got Melon's tweet in anger against this?
https://youtube.com/shorts/2uosrwTgeug?si=lqIWtmKyEnQmjNTz

 

[RedRocket9908]

Anyone got Melon's tweet in anger against this?
https://youtube.com/shorts/2uosrwTgeug?si=lqIWtmKyEnQmjNTz

No but he also moaned about this Bruno challenge while seemingly not saying a word about those by Mac Allister and Gomez

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Bubz27]

No but he also moaned about this Bruno challenge while seemingly not saying a word about those by Mac Allister and Gomez

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Pathetic.

 

[lysglimt]

Neil Mellor ranting about the assistant ref not flagging offside here but the fact is the assistant cant flag because VVD cleared the ball before any offside offence was comitted, being in an offside position is not an offence and the ball hasnt reeched the player in an offside position so he hasnt attempted to play it or prevented anyone else from playing it.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I actually remember the time Mellor scored for Liverpool haha

 

[Shane88]

Ref only sent off Gordon because he forgot he had booked him already.

 

[Jev]

How is that Newcastle penalty not a foul against Gordon for tripping Phillips? Phillips is mid-kick, Gordon throws his leg in front of Phillips’ (without touching the ball, or even intending to), and that’s a penalty for Gordon? Another masterclass from the game-wrecking technology.

 

[Gazautd18]

How isn’t that penalty a foul against Gordon for tripping Phillips? Phillips is mid-kick, Gorden throws his leg in front of Phillips’ (without touching the ball), and that’s a penalty for Gordon?

Think both decisions were dodgy.
The 1st one maybe more of a pen but the 2nd was just pathetic from VAR.

 

[Jev]

Think both decisions were dodgy.
The 1st one maybe more of a pen but the 2nd was just pathetic from VAR.

Didn’t see the first one but the second one is the kind of penalty that was invented by VAR.

 

[Withnail]

Didn’t see the first one but the second one is the kind of penalty that was invented by VAR.

It's an outrageous decision

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[kopviolator]

why do they bother sending the ref to the screen with decisions like this. I've never seen a ref go against the VAR team. I swear it would be better if an alarm went off in the stadium, lights blinking and the likes with a voice in the call system declaring that the senior reffing team has awarded a penalty. It's a bloody circus anyway.

 

[Withnail]

This decision doesn't look great either

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[MrMarcello]

I don't understand how officials can see that Gordon "foul" happen and think the attacking player was truly fouled. It's as if these officials don't have a fecking clue about the sport they officiate.

 

[Daydreamer]

How is that Newcastle penalty not a foul against Gordon for tripping Phillips? Phillips is mid-kick, Gordon throws his leg in front of Phillips’ (without touching the ball, or even intending to), and that’s a penalty for Gordon? Another masterclass from the game-wrecking technology.

I had to replay it several when I just watched the highlights. I was convinced I must have missed something. The weird thing is, it wasn’t given during play and the decision was reversed by VAR. It’s the type of challenge that I would have thought could easily look like a penalty at full speed and VAR gives the opportunity to rectify.

As has been mentioned elsewhere, if anyone was fouled, it was Phillips.

 

[MrMarcello]

Credit to @BeforeKeanetherewasRobson for posting a link (in the Matchday thread) many of us can view as the links above are copyright blocked, though could be an outside England/Britain block.

There is no way any person who has played the sport can call this a foul by the defender. I fully anticipate an apology given to West Ham. Are there any Hammers in the media that will kick up a fuss?

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[MrMarcello]

This is the first penalty call which I would also say is debatable and more a 'clever' attempt to draw a penalty. Gordon jumps directly in front of the defender who is making a play towards the ball and has no idea Gordon is coming into the play. 1:40 mark gives a better angled view. Someone mentioned it was sort of similar incident to the Rashford red earlier.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Credit to @BeforeKeanetherewasRobson for posting a link (in the Matchday thread) many of us can view as the links above are copyright blocked, though could be an outside England/Britain block.

There is no way any person who has played the sport can call this a foul by the defender. I fully anticipate an apology given to West Ham. Are there any Hammers in the media that will kick up a fuss?

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Scandalous decision really. Gordon is the one who commits the foul.

 

[Bale Bale Bale]

Seen those Gordon ones given loads of times.

 

[ROFLUTION]

What was the country that bought Newcastle again?

 

[MrMarcello]

VAR gets it right in the Brentford/United match just now. Garnacho tees up to clear a ball as a Brentford player comes flying in blindside and is "kicked" by Garnacho. Brentford players screaming for a penalty. VAR does not give it, rightly so.