VAR - Not the hero we want, the one we need

I think both VAR decisions tonight were right. The only issue I have is the time its taken (and im sure one was ref getting opinion and the other was ref getting opinion then looking himself)
That should become better over time imo.
 
I kinda hoped he used var to cancel the 3-1 just emphasize how poisonois and destructive VAR is too our beloved sport. If Var is introduced in PL im done with football. Seriously i would say the same if WBA was playing us. I would say the same if WBA was playing us. This is utter disastrous americanization
 
There does seem a division between those who think that a reality where most goals will have to be reviewed for a minute (sometimes longer if the ref wants a butchers at the screen himself) is going to be a bit shite, and those who think the only thing that matters is accuracy and who refuse to see the compromise.
 
duffer said:
It needs to be more like (how I understand) it works in American football. The ref on the pitch makes the square to signal he's using VAR, then he gets told what the decision is, which he immediately announces to the crowd.

No fannying about with going to look at a monitor, no discussing things with the VAR guys, if the ref uses VAR, they just tell him what the call is.
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The ref sometimes goes to the TV to look at instant replay (that has been pre-selected by officials in the booth).

But it's not that bad. The time spent is used by the (knowledgeable) commentators to muse over the play in contentions, the actions leading up to it, and the potential ramifications of a decision either way. I've never felt a replay was taking too long. But I'm American, so there's that.
 
Oscie said:
There does seem a division between those who think that a reality where most goals will have to be reviewed for a minute (sometimes longer if the ref wants a butchers at the screen himself) is going to be a bit shite, and those who think the only thing that matters is accuracy and who refuse to see the compromise.
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Why would most goals have to be reviewed?

Sigma said:
We've had 4 goals in this game. Only 1 of them the VAR was used...
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VAR has been pretty quite for the amount of games its been tested in.
 
It's great to finally see correct decisions being made and teams not being shafted due to human error.
 
Surely VAR is affecting the excitement factor as we have to wait for goals to be confirmed. And before you know it there will be commercial breaks when refs review VAR.

IMO FA shoud mic up ref, so that we at least are in the know. As for the Liverpool WBA game I thought a lot more time should have been added after all those reviews and injuries.
 
Sigma said:
Why would most goals have to be reviewed?



VAR has been pretty quite for the amount of games its been tested in.
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Because most goals do have an element of doubt about them. Hustling at corners, close offside decisions, foul in the build up, did it go out of play earlier, was that hand ball or ball to hand earlier....

...there aren't many goals scored where there's absolutely no doubt that anything was wrong with them. Even if there isn't anything wrong with them, a lot of times there are question marks.
 
from what I can work out though - to make it fair, you have to VAR every goal, in case something is getting missed don't you?

and every possible penalty - to make sure those are right too

you can't do some & not others can you?
 
If VAR allows to correct one bad decision over a whole season, it would have been worth it.
Don't understand people that do not want progress in any shape or form...
 
I can't wait until we score a 91st minute winner at Old Trafford again. There's nothing like seeing the net bulge and then having to wait patiently for 65 seconds, as we await the decision and some of the crowd start filtering out. Only for the referee to make that awesome Give-Us-A-Clue 'TV' signal, channelling the energy of Lionel Blair, and indicate the goal is allowed to stand, received by relieved applause by the United fans.

...it's those kind of moments I live for as a football fan, quite honestly. It's just a shame Fergie retired before this change. Some of his best moments as manager, those late winners, would have been improved massively by replacing the 'lose-your-shit' celebrations with a pensive wait for official confirmation.

I most like the hush that descends, usually as the decision nears closer, and then you hear a wise man pipe up with "I don't know why people have a problem with VAR, it's fecking brilliant".
 
adexkola said:
The ref sometimes goes to the TV to look at instant replay (that has been pre-selected by officials in the booth).

But it's not that bad. The time spent is used by the (knowledgeable) commentators to muse over the play in contentions, the actions leading up to it, and the potential ramifications of a decision either way. I've never felt a replay was taking too long. But I'm American, so there's that.
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That’s not what happens for the fans at the game. Who have to stand their for four minutes, with no clue what’s happening.
 
Hate how it slows the game down, and the lack of clarity we as spectators get. Should have microphones so we can hear what’s being said.

The NFL have it down to a fine art.
 
To make it a better system for match goers the ref should have a mic so we can hear what's going on, like in rugby and American sports. VAR is fine and should be here to stay, but the execution of it needs tweaking.
 
p2pZeus said:
I kinda hoped he used var to cancel the 3-1 just emphasize how poisonois and destructive VAR is too our beloved sport. If Var is introduced in PL im done with football. Seriously i would say the same if WBA was playing us. I would say the same if WBA was playing us. This is utter disastrous americanization
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Right... getting the call right is just horrible.
 
Judas said:
Hate how it slows the game down, and the lack of clarity we as spectators get. Should have microphones so we can hear what’s being said.

The NFL have it down to a fine art.
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Yeah the audience really needs to hear what's going on. Even in rugby you hear the conversation between the ref and the trailer.
 
padr81 said:
Not just yourself but to the few complaining. United are 2-1 up against City in FA Cup final. Sterling runs into the box, goes down in the 90th minute. Ref from his position see's a pen but is unsure...Does he a, give City the pen or b, use VAR.

I guarantee every single person complaining about the length of time a decision takes would be like "We need correct decisions not fast ones" in said situation especially if its a clear dive. Removing game ruining decisions is more important than losing a few seconds or even a minute or so from a match.
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I'm not complaiing about VAR but I am wondering where option c, give no penalty is. That's what a ref is supposed to do when he's unsure.

For those who are against it you're framing it as a lesser of two evils thing in this situation where the third and very viable option which has always been the default would be seen as perfectly fine by United fans against it in this scenario.

Would probably have been better to ask what would happen if United had a penalty shout ruled out because the ref was unsure, but VAR would have shown it was one.
 
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My two main issues with it from tonight's game so far are:

1. It obviously has to be quicker. You could see the 3rd WBA goal was onside from the first replay so not sure why it took 2 minutes

2. The penalty decision. Whilst it is probably a penalty by the letter of the law, I'm not sure Salah was getting anywhere near the cross. If you give penalties based on VAR for that kind of incident you could find a penalty on every corner kick.

Also, not sure it was wise to trial the technology in games of this importance
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That’s not what happens for the fans at the game. Who have to stand their for four minutes, with no clue what’s happening.
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Maybe they should be encouraged to stand there for four minutes and reflect on how fortunate they are to no longer live in an era where seeing their team get the ball in the net is any longer cause for celebration that might soon be deemed unjustified.
 
In all honesty I’d prefer controversial decisions and angst over how shite the officials are, it’s how it’s always been and I love it. Imagine not having anything to moan about and no one to blame?
 
:lol: at rage towards a system instead people using it, making rules on what matters can system (VAR) be used, amazing.
 
Judas said:
In all honesty I’d prefer controversial decisions and angst over how shite the officials are, it’s how it’s always been and I love it. Imagine not having anything to moan about and no one to blame?
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You should ask those, who even today mention a Nani`s red card vs Real or go berserk when they see that Turkish ref in CL game.
 
adexkola said:
True. But that also happens when play is stopped for any other reason.

There's always beer.
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True. Personally I'd not really embrace a world where the ball hitting the net is a signal to make a quick get-away to stock up on refreshments.

Ball just hits the net:

"You think I've got time to nip out for a smoke, John?"
- Yeah, looked borderline that one. Probably take them a couple of minutes to make a decision.
 
R'hllor said:
You should ask those, who even today mention a Nani`s red card vs Real or go berserk when they see that Turkish ref in CL game.
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VAR wouldn't have overturned Nani's red card vs Madrid at all. it was harsh and never a red in the PL but the referee was perfectly within his rights within the rules to send him off for that and video wouldn't have changed that.

Are we really having this thing to avenge for past decisions we don't like that this thing wouldn't have changed anyway?

feck me, this is getting better.
 
Oscie said:
That sentence needs to be subject to VAR
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Indeed it should. You rage at VAR for no reason, you should direct it towards the ones using it and those making decision on what to be used.
 
The penalty decision summed up everything that is wrong with VAR. Yes, looking at the slow motion still of the angle shown it looks as though he is holding Salah, but this is inconclusive as to what effect this has, & without all angles it is hard to judge, which I very much doubt the ref saw in the time given. Just because someone touches someone doesn't mean it is a penalty/foul, as it still a contact sport the last I heard, though could be soon dead with idiocy like this. Alan Smith talked about this after the Chelsea match on Sky, where he agreed with the decision made on Willan as viewing an incident in slow motion always looks worse than at full speed & it was inconclusive whether it was a foul or not. As was the Salah one tonight. Fool comments like it was a cast iron penalty don't help matters, as it wasn't.
 
adexkola said:
True. But that also happens when play is stopped for any other reason.

There's always beer.
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When there's a stop for injuries: play the audible screams of the injured player lying on the grass through the stadium loud-speakers so the crowd can have a clue.
 
I'm still not sure if was a pen, Salah threw himself to the ground theatrically and (I may be wrong) but weren't players supposed to not be able to get the ref to do a review?
 
In its current guise, it's yet another kick in the balls for match going supporters.

If VAR is to survive then fans at the ground need to be made aware of the developments. At the moment, they're sitting like wankers without a clue, only having actually paid hard earned money for that privilege.
 
That moment in the 1999 Champions League final where Sheringham equalised and he glanced towards the linesman and saw his flag down and wheeled away and celebrated.

I'm not sure I can ever watch that moment again, knowing that because of the slow progress of technology I was robbed of the opportunity to see everyone stand around with their hands on their hips for a while as Collina waited for official confirmation that he was onside when he hit the ball in the net.

Guy at work was there, I might ask him on Monday if he's regretful the moment where he presumably burst a blood vessel in his head screaming in celebration wasn't replaced with a pause, possibly long enough for him to initiate a conversation about the political issues of the day with the person standing next to him. We really have to reflect on whether we really want the indignity of a goal being the signal for 50,000 home fans going mental, or whether we'd prefer the evidently superior reality of a bulging net simply being the first phase of a confirmation process that will take an impossible to determine amount of time.
 
Only thing I've learned from tonight's game...

It's impossible to say V-A-R in a scouse accent, without sounding Chinese.
 
Oscie said:
That moment in the 1999 Champions League final where Sheringham equalised and he glanced towards the linesman and saw his flag down and wheeled away and celebrated.

I'm not sure I can ever watch that moment again, knowing that because of the slow progress of technology I was robbed of the opportunity to see everyone stand around with their hands on their hips for a while as Collina waited for official confirmation that he was onside when he hit the ball in the net.

Guy at work was there, I might ask him on Monday if he's regretful the moment where he presumably burst a blood vessel in his head screaming in celebration wasn't replaced with a pause, possibly long enough for him to initiate a conversation about the political issues of the day with the person standing next to him.
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So what if the goal had been disallowed because the referee thought he saw something. Would you rather that? Your team doesn't win the Champions League because of an incorrect decision.
 
Sigma said:
So what if the goal had been disallowed because the referee thought he saw something. Would you rather that? Your team doesn't win the Champions League because of an incorrect decision.
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Football.

VAR is never going to eliminate 'wrong' decisions because football is far more nuanced. Professional referees don't always agree with eachother.

Aside from goal line technology and offside goals (both a matter of fact), I'm not really seeing the need for it. At least not like this.
 
Kag said:
Football.

VAR is never going to eliminate 'wrong' decisions because football is far more nuanced. Professional referees don't always agree with eachother.

Aside from goal line technology and offside goals (both a matter of fact)I don't see the need for it.
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Nobody is saying it's going to eliminate all wrong decisions. It will eliminate most wrong decisions.
 
Sigma said:
So what if the goal had been disallowed because the referee thought he saw something. Would you rather that? Your team doesn't win the Champions League because of an incorrect decision.
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It'd suck. I'd carry the pain and resentment around me for as long as I'm alive.

I still wouldn't think it'd be worth trading for a reality where I could never truly celebrate a last minute United winner again until I saw what the outcome of the referee holding his ear piece steadily in his ear and having a conversation with a man who was busy reviewing it on tape for the sole purpose of finding fault with it and with the power to instruct the referee to rule it out if he does.
 
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