Anyone else think that was a penalty on Watkins by Robinson? It’s not cutting off his lane it’s just barging in from the back without an eye for the ball.
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Does anyone know the last time an opponent was sent off against United in the Premier League? The last red cards opponents received against us domestically I can recall was the three red cards by Fulham two years ago, but that was in an FA Cup match. This all contrasts sharply with three red cards for opponents in our last four Europa League matches (one each for Sociedad, Lyon and Bilbao).
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If you dont include the rescinded Bournemouth one then I think the last one was Jack Stephens away at Saints on 14th of September
Correct, before that it was February 2022. Dunk got a red card vs Brighton.
It's very hard to get sent off against United it seems. They say decisions even themselves out but I do wonder how many domestic Red Cards United have received over the same timeframe.
That's because:
- You don't see United players rolling around like being hit by a bus whenever an opposition player who was booked before tackles them
- You don't see United players targeting full-backs who are on early yellow cards
- You don't see United taking advantage of a certain situation to put pressure on the referee
It is strange that we actually get pen calls, 50/50s and correct red calls in our favour in Europe but not in PL. It's almost as if English refs think it's not worth the flack from the media that they'll get for giving us the correct call
So you see it as United's players being at fault?
For me it kinda reinforces that our hard done by feeling in the premier league isn’t just natural viewer bias. Europe feels somewhat neutral, we’ve had some harsh decisions but in hindsight they have been consistently applied in other matches to other teams too. In the premier league it’s farcical and we consistently see that calls against us are not applied evenly to calls for us and we see time and time again comparable calls in other matches being judged completely differently
Thanks guys. I searched everywhere, but no sites keep records of red cards against each clubs opponents, only those for each club. So, only 1 validated red card in the PL against United in more than 3 years, but 3 red cards in 4 matches for our EL opponents. I think that proves the difference between PL refereeing and that in Europe.
It’s around 8 I think including this season.
Yeah that sounds about right. Casemiro probably has more red cards than all our domestic opponents combined over the last 3-4 seasons.
I agree. The decisions over the last 3 or 4 years have been farcical. We have had a couple of lucky ones go our way, but the scales are absolutely tipped in the other direction.
I don't think it's a case of refs hating United or being bent. I just genuinely think that the amount of coverage a favourable United decision gets is a factor. Onana vs Wolves for example, the ref got demoted for a week.
Not worth the trouble for them
For sure, have been banging this drum for years. We still hear about the Pedro Mendes non-goal or the Carrick penalty in the 5-2, and it is nearing or over two decades since those incidents happened.
That was a penalty, couldn't believe the bitching about it at the time.
Ain't this the truth! I have friends who constantly send videos of decisions we've had in our favour over the last 30 years. Petty and ridiculous. You'd think he's just trying to wind me up but he genuinely believes we had the referees in our pockets and that's the only reason we won anything.
Partially, yes. We never force the referee hand, nor we know how to take advantage in certain situations.
I'm not under illusion that the final decision lays with the referee, however, we need to be more street smart.
Plus, in the first few minutes of that game, Palacios went in rapid, horizontally, two-footed, knee-high on Ronaldo and was a nailed on red card and I’m not sure he was even booked. He didn’t connect but it was a fecking disgusting tackle.
I remember it well it was a ludicrous tackle.
Of your 3 points I'm not sure.
It's a good thing that United players for the most part don't roll around and play act.
I don't think it's a case of we don't target fullbacks, I've watched many games where an opposition fullback makes enough bad tackles to get to yellows. Bt they just don't the threshld is just higher to get a red vs United.
The last one is pretty objective. We do surround the ref sometimes.
Taylor is the perfect example of how bad PGMOL is
I don't always like moaning about refs but whether it's bias or not, Taylor clearly has a thing against us right? I'd be perfectly alright with requesting never to be reffed by him again.
100%, he does everything he can legally to make it hard for us. Soft bookings, soft free kicks, higher threshold for opposition bookings / fouls and even blows up for time to stop us taking corners. Didn't even add on the right injury time today. He's just biased, it's clear as day and the stats make it even clearer.
Blowing the whistle after 15 seconds is really frustrating. Not sure how much of active play there was after Amad's goal but surely he should give us at least 60 seconds over those 7 minutes? Not sure we'd score but certainly will never know.
Of course it's nonsense, but the forum is full of people who reckoned the same for City and now Liverpool.
If you hate a team that much you'll only ever remember the ones that went for that team.
I bet no Arsenal fans mention that wrongly disallowed goal United had in the 99 FA Cup Semi. Giggs had the ball knocked it forward, crossed it in, but for some reason the linesman reckoned Giggs playing it to himself was an offside. I can still see Keano ranting at the ref to goon Arsenal fans waving imaginary beans behind him.
But because United won, the press didn't even mention what could have been an utterly critical decision.
I don’t remember that myself!
Fair point. I don't know if we'll be citing specific examples in 20 years time but I see the point.
Or the offside Henry goal at Highbury, or the handball Drogba goal. Or the wrongly disallowed goal v Porto that started the Mourinho beast up. That was a real sliding doors moment. We win that tie, he doesn't go on to win that cup and he doesn't make Chelsea a machine.
We've as many of these calls that didn't go for us, as rival fans can name against us.
Is semi automated offside bollocks? Bear in mind you can't be offside in your own half, and that the only parts of you that can be offside are the parts of your body that can legally play the ball.
i.e. arms don't count if that's the part of your body that is furthest forward. They've also partly shaded out the rest of his body to show that his arm/ahoulder was the only part of his body in the Spurs half.
There's some grey area around the sleeves when deciding handball etc. and therefore what part of you would be offside but no way does this look right.
They at least need to show lines from the part of the body down that's supposedly offside down to the imaginary offside line, same for Spurs defender so we can see what thye're even measuring here.
i.e. arms don't count if that's the part of your body that is furthest forward. They've also partly shaded out the rest of his body to show that his arm/ahoulder was the only part of his body in the Spurs half.
There's some grey area around the sleeves when deciding handball etc. and therefore what part of you would be offside but no way does this look right.
They at least need to show lines from the part of the body down that's supposedly offside down to the imaginary offside line, same for Spurs defender so we can see what thye're even measuring here.
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The images in the PL version of semi auto offside always look really weird. The upper arm is counted for it. Looks like he's leaning off.
Also wouldn't surprise me if there's bugs with the system.
Also wouldn't surprise me if there's bugs with the system.
Cheers, so the difference in colouring on Mateta's body is what they're saying is completely beyond Spence?
It looks that's the only part of him that's in the Spurs half which was what I thought it was trying to depict.
You're right about it looking weird! Noticed it on a few other decisions, doesn't always seem to marry up with with the TV cameras exactly on occasion. Think they could do with some better imaging and drawing those lines down from body/bodies to the line(s) across the field when they show us it would help visually.
It looks extremely marginal but right to me. You could extend the margins so its a bit more clear cut to the naked eye but getting the decisions right, even if they are by millimeters, is pretty valuable in my view.
Is semi automated offside bollocks? Bear in mind you can't be offside in your own half, and that the only parts of you that can be offside are the parts of your body that can legally play the ball.
i.e. arms don't count if that's the part of your body that is furthest forward. They've also partly shaded out the rest of his body to show that his arm/ahoulder was the only part of his body in the Spurs half.
There's some grey area around the sleeves when deciding handball etc. and therefore what part of you would be offside but no way does this look right.
They at least need to show lines from the part of the body down that's supposedly offside down to the imaginary offside line, same for Spurs defender so we can see what thye're even measuring here.
You can score with your arm as long as it touches it above the sleeve(Dark Blue area), hence why this is rightly called offside.
I know about the sleeve thing, mentioned that in my post.
What wasn't clear to me was what the image was even trying to depict, let alone actually depicting.
@Mb194dc helped clear it up for me. I originally thought the dark blue looked like it was the only part of him inside the Spurs half. So much so that I thought that's why it was dark blue and that it wasn't even trying to say that's the part of him that was offside.
I don't really understand the graphical design of this to be honest. Why no lines down from the players to the lines on the pitch? Why does the greyed out area extend further past the halfway line than where the defender's foot is? That looks to be the part of his body nearest to the goal he's defending.
I don't know, the way it was presented to the audience pre semi automated seemed a lot clearer to me. Lines down from the body to 2 imaginary lines across the pitch so we know the exact body parts they're looking at. If the attacker's line is closer to goal he's off. Not digging this sort of imaginary wall they're breaking through in the greyed out part.
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Casemiro got sent off for less than this
Liverpool therefore not an issue. See VVD and his elbow use.
I hate how Liverpool are the media and referee darlings. There genuinely needs to be a crackdown on this, because it’s unacceptable.
Is semi automated offside bollocks? Bear in mind you can't be offside in your own half, and that the only parts of you that can be offside are the parts of your body that can legally play the ball.
i.e. arms don't count if that's the part of your body that is furthest forward. They've also partly shaded out the rest of his body to show that his arm/ahoulder was the only part of his body in the Spurs half.
There's some grey area around the sleeves when deciding handball etc. and therefore what part of you would be offside but no way does this look right.
They at least need to show lines from the part of the body down that's supposedly offside down to the imaginary offside line, same for Spurs defender so we can see what thye're even measuring here.
Semi-automated offside is definitely a load of bollox. He's standing inside his own half ffs. Giving offside for leaning and thus a part of his body that could potentially be used to score a goal being marginally ahead of the defender is not what the rule was brought in for.
I was worried we'd go back to these really marginal offsides and we have. It also doesn't seem to be any quicker which was apparently one of the advantages of the system. One the other week took 3 mins or so.
Liverpool are an example of how referees can help a team win games.
See Saka example above and the blatant ignorance of anything VVD does. And that’s not even including all the other dodgy decisions they get.
There would be questions in parliament if it was United getting that favourable treatment
Is semi automated offside bollocks? Bear in mind you can't be offside in your own half, and that the only parts of you that can be offside are the parts of your body that can legally play the ball.
i.e. arms don't count if that's the part of your body that is furthest forward. They've also partly shaded out the rest of his body to show that his arm/ahoulder was the only part of his body in the Spurs half.
There's some grey area around the sleeves when deciding handball etc. and therefore what part of you would be offside but no way does this look right.
They at least need to show lines from the part of the body down that's supposedly offside down to the imaginary offside line, same for Spurs defender so we can see what thye're even measuring here.
Load of crap. 99.9% of his body is in his own half. Can guarantee if he scored with the highlighted part of his arm they'd look at it for ages and cancel the goal anyway.