VDS at United Re-visited

[Skills]

Disclaimer : I'm a huge Edwin fan, I thought he was a class act & a big part of the late 00s team. But I just want to look over his stint again, and I feel like a few things really seem to go in his favour which probably make his time here appear better than it was? Especially compared to De Gea who came after.

1. The huge list of liabilities that were in our goal after big Pete's retirement meant that once we finally did get a sane keeper in VDS, it probably meant we could really see the difference a goodkeeper makes to your club. I mean Roy Carroll was in goal in the 2005 FA Cup final in the shoot out, and looked like he wasn't getting anywhere near any of Arsenal's penalties. So once VDS came, it was a huge sigh of relief. De Gea obviously followed up VDS himself.
2. His deputies lets be honest were frankly total shit. Kuszczak & Foster were dreadful keepers & whenever Edwin was missing they let us know exactly what we were missing. Kuszczak cost us a potential treble by getting sent off in that QF against Portsmouth and Foster was a bag of nerves whenever get got anywhere near a United shirt. De Gea's been deputised by Romero who's been very competent.
3. Anelka's penalty in Moscow really changed the narrative of that CL final. I've watched that final a few times and I think VDS had a poor game. He slipped for the Lampard goal and I recall him making another blunder that he got away with. We were hammering up until that goal if anyone remembers the game.
4. He also made costly mistakes in the 2009 and 2011 finals. He shouldn't have gotten beaten by Eto'o for the first goal in 2009 and he was weak for Messi's goal in 2011 final. I'd argue he was also caught stuck for Pedro's opening goal too. Barcelona obliterated us all over the pitch though, so his mistakes were the last thing on anyone's mind. But again they were big moments that he made mistakes in.

 

[FujiVice]

Nah, not for me. He was essentially the perfect signing and one of the best values for money Ferguson ever done. A model professional, loyal to the club from the minute he walked in the dressing room, an influence on young players.

It shouldnt be understated how smart Van Der Sar was as a goalkeeper. Rio Ferdinand has said countless times how Edwin would talk to the back four, throwing out advice and encouragment and making sure he wouldnt have to make a save. A fantastic goalkeeper, a model professional. Knew every trick in the book as well. Like little things like hanging a towel up on the goal, because he knows the striker likes to aim for something.

 

[FujiVice]

He also made costly mistakes in the 2009 and 2011 finals. He shouldn't have gotten beaten by Eto'o for the first goal in 2009 and he was weak for Messi's goal in 2011 final. I'd argue he was also caught stuck for Pedro's opening goal too. Barcelona obliterated us all over the pitch though, so his mistakes were the last thing on anyone's mind. But again they were big moments that he made mistakes in.

We were being obliterated all over the pitch, as you say. You can only weather a storm so much. He didnt cost us in those games. We were outclassed by arguably the greatest club side ever.

 

[Tomuś]

Think you're being a tad harsh on Kuszczak there. He played 32 times in the League for us, racking up 16 clean sheets. 6 clean sheets in 11 in UCL, too, including a couple of knock-out games.

Was nerve-racking with his distribution but as a pure shot-stopper he wasn't too shabby for a better 2nd goalie. I think he won 2 or 3 saves of the season awards for what it's worth.

Think we really are spoiled now with our sub GK now.

 

[billybee99]

Disclaimer : I'm a huge Edwin fan, I thought he was a class act & a big part of the late 00s team. But I just want to look over his stint again, and I feel like a few things really seem to go in his favour which probably make his time here appear better than it was? Especially compared to De Gea who came after.

1. The huge list of liabilities that were in our goal after big Pete's retirement meant that once we finally did get a sane keeper in VDS, it probably meant we could really see the difference a goodkeeper makes to your club. I mean Roy Carroll was in goal in the 2005 FA Cup final in the shoot out, and looked like he wasn't getting anywhere near any of Arsenal's penalties. So once VDS came, it was a huge sigh of relief. De Gea obviously followed up VDS himself.
2. His deputies lets be honest were frankly total shit. Kuszczak & Foster were dreadful keepers & whenever Edwin was missing they let us know exactly what we were missing. Kuszczak cost us a potential treble by getting sent off in that QF against Portsmouth and Foster was a bag of nerves whenever get got anywhere near a United shirt. De Gea's been deputised by Romero who's been very competent.
3. Anelka's penalty in Moscow really changed the narrative of that CL final. I've watched that final a few times and I think VDS had a poor game. He slipped for the Lampard goal and I recall him making another blunder that he got away with. We were hammering up until that goal if anyone remembers the game.
4. He also made costly mistakes in the 2009 and 2011 finals. He shouldn't have gotten beaten by Eto'o for the first goal in 2009 and he was weak for Messi's goal in 2011 final. I'd argue he was also caught stuck for Pedro's opening goal too. Barcelona obliterated us all over the pitch though, so his mistakes were the last thing on anyone's mind. But again they were big moments that he made mistakes in.

What a horseshite post. I always love when someone starts an argument with "I'm a huge fan of him but..." because you just know what's coming next. Embarrassing.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Straight up no.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

He was fantastic on the whole and very consistent but he did have some tough moments like everyone, some pretty poor parries here and there to dangerous areas was his biggest weakness for me.

 

[The Original]

Kusczcak was a very competent keeper. Never anywhere near as bad as you imply

 

[iHicksy]

Sounds like a post written by someone who didn't watch us week in week out. He is in no way overrated. He was commanding, great shot stopper, fantastic reach great in the air and most importantly he had the ability to do absolutely nothing for 45minutes then pull off three match winning saves. It's much easier to be a great keeper when your goal is being peppered with shots because you're in the moment. When you have to maintain perfect concentration when nothing is going on is where champion goal keepers come into play.

 

[Adam-Utd]

He was very good but De Gea and Schmeichel were better for us IMO.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

What a horseshite post. I always love when someone starts an argument with "I'm a huge fan of him but..." because you just know what's coming next. Embarrassing.

Yip.

Also the description of the Lampard goal is selective. There was a HUGE deflection (or two... or three?) and VDS had to try to quickly change footing/direction.

If we're just going to nitpick, Wes Brown was ball watching or he'd have seen Lampard's run.

Carrick had the entire goal to aim at but shot straight at Cech.

Giggs had an almost open goal and missed.

Another way to look at it, is (as a team), we played pretty well but Chelsea were no mugs and they had their chances too. But, we won and VDS was a part of it.

VDS was an excellent goalie full stop. You'd swear this site was full of opposition fans... we seem desperate to rewrite history and suggest so many United players were overrated... Scholes, Giggs, VDS.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Nah, not for me. He was essentially the perfect signing and one of the best values for money Ferguson ever done. A model professional, loyal to the club from the minute he walked in the dressing room, an influence on young players.

It shouldnt be understated how smart Van Der Sar was as a goalkeeper. Rio Ferdinand has said countless times how Edwin would talk to the back four, throwing out advice and encouragment and making sure he wouldnt have to make a save. A fantastic goalkeeper, a model professional. Knew every trick in the book as well. Like little things like hanging a towel up on the goal, because he knows the striker likes to aim for something.

He was rather sly with the gamesmanship, for sure. He used to take an age to get on his line for a penalty. I don't remember seeing goalkeepers do that before he did it. I remember a few times he'd try to hide the ball down the OT banking, or walk off with it or even roll it out to the wrong side when there was a a corner to defend late in the game.

I remember reading somewhere that he was ultra-competitive in the squad too, can't remember if it was Kuszczak or Foster who said he generally didn't give advice to either of them. Not sure if there was any truth to that though.


Just watched that Eto'o CL final goal back. It's quite disastrous, and VDS' mistake is the last in a string of really poor play. Carrick's lackadaisical header to nobody, Evra casually sauntering back despite Eto'o having an acre of space on his flank, Eto'o selling Vidic with a pretty tame cutbackand swiping at thin air. VDS was often vulnerable at his nearpost. It's still poor, but I'd pin that on a couple of others way before him.

I think he's somewhat underrated being here between Schmeichel who was one of the very best ever, and De Gea who is more likely to make an unexpected save for what looks to be a certain goal and saved us numerous times during a pretty grim period. But VDS' all round game was much more complete than De Gea's IMO, great positioning and distribution, great command of his area, made it look easy when he'd pluck the ball out of the air with one hand. Obviously had the benefit of playing behind the best two centre backs around at his peak with us, but still a great signing and a big part of one of our best ever sides.

 

[sullydnl]

If anything it's the comparisons to Schmeichel and De Gea that are unfair to VDS. He wasn't quite as brilliant as they were at their peaks but then few goalkeepers are.

He was a top class goalkeeper, certainly one of the best in PL history. Crucially, he was also the right goalkeeper for us at the right time given the experience and calm he brought to the team. I remember Evra saying he was the captain of the defence, which is saying something given 3/4 of our back four were literally captains.

 

[Freak]

Absolutely loved Edwin. His command of the area was fantastic and that trio of VDS, Rio and Vidic essentially won us titles.

 

[AltiUn]

He was very good but De Gea and Schmeichel were better for us IMO.

Agreed, loved all 3 and they would all feature in my all time top 5 PL keepers.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Edwin was perfect signing at that time, he had a respectful presence in United's dressing room and his experience helped him keep the boat steady against pretty much every team in the league, however he was also quite lucky by having Rio and Vidic in their prime.

Would be interesting to put him into test of having chuckle brothers and kamikaze Rojo in his box, because De Gea for many years was tested to every possible limit with so many weirdly acting defenders.

 

[izec]

I think comparing him to De Gea would leave out the importance of organising the defense and bringing calmness to the game/defense, which you can't measure and aren't in people's minds. De Gea's reflex saves for years were great and better than Van der Sar, but he was/is nowhere near the level of Van der Sar in every other aspect of the GK game.

 

[The Cat]

No I won't hear a word said against him. I rate him higher than De Gea overall he was more consistent.

 

[adexkola]

Did he ever get in team of the season?

 

[FrankDrebin]

Should've brought VDS earlier,even if he was coming off the back of a erratic time in Turin.

 

[AltiUn]

No I won't hear a word said against him. I rate him higher than De Gea overall he was more consistent.

De Gea was pretty much flawless for about 5 seasons, the difference in consistency would be so minute it's barely worth taking into consideration.

 

[The Cat]

De Gea was pretty much flawless for about 5 seasons, the difference in consistency would be so minute it's barely worth taking into consideration.

I'm thinking there is no way you can call De Gea flawless when you consider command of the area. I rate that as hugely important especially when you look at some of the center backs we have had (which isn't his fault and his shot stopping has covered for I admit). Don't get me wrong he's been superb over a long period of time and I'm very glad we had him but his style has never given me the confidence his record should.

 

[izec]

De Gea's saving was ridiculous and that is the most important part for a GK. But, the rest is lacking. While his shot stopping was the best for years, his other aspects have been average compared to the elite. It just didn't matter that much, he saved us so many times, that being decent outside of on the line saves was enough. That is not the case anymore.

I can't really compare him to Edwin career wise, simply because Edwin had a huge push towards the end. De Gea is slacking a bit currently, but if he comes back strong, he will probably end up being higher than VDS. Currently if i would rate them at the same stage of their careers when Edwin was his age, i would say De Gea is above him and has a higher peak, but Edwin might end up with the better career overall

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Romero was shit against Bristol in EFL Cup. At the end of the day, all keeper can have a bad day. If there is a reason why we didn't win treble in 2007/2008 it's because our players couldn't score a single goal against Portsmouth given lot of chances we created not because Kuszczak received a red & conceded penalty. Compared to Kuszczak. Romero so far hadn't play enough league games to justify if he's been very competent in comparison to Kuszczak's career.

VDS was great, barely making errors. Remember he held the record of consecutive clean sheets of 14 games, I knew you can also give the back four credit but without great goalkeeper, the clean sheet was impossible. 10/11 season was probably his worst season which led to his decision to retire. I must say VDS & Kuszczak duo are better than DDG & Romero.

 

[izec]

Did he ever get in team of the season?

thrice

 

[adexkola]

thrice

Good stuff, I thought Cech swept them up when he was at Chelsea.

Yeah I know DDG and Schmichael get most of the keeper plaudits but leaning more towards the theory we've underrated VDS's skillset, despite the SNAFUs the OP refers to (some of which weren't)

 

[royboy16]

Disclaimer : I'm a huge Edwin fan, I thought he was a class act & a big part of the late 00s team. But I just want to look over his stint again, and I feel like a few things really seem to go in his favour which probably make his time here appear better than it was? Especially compared to De Gea who came after.

1. The huge list of liabilities that were in our goal after big Pete's retirement meant that once we finally did get a sane keeper in VDS, it probably meant we could really see the difference a goodkeeper makes to your club. I mean Roy Carroll was in goal in the 2005 FA Cup final in the shoot out, and looked like he wasn't getting anywhere near any of Arsenal's penalties. So once VDS came, it was a huge sigh of relief. De Gea obviously followed up VDS himself.
2. His deputies lets be honest were frankly total shit. Kuszczak & Foster were dreadful keepers & whenever Edwin was missing they let us know exactly what we were missing. Kuszczak cost us a potential treble by getting sent off in that QF against Portsmouth and Foster was a bag of nerves whenever get got anywhere near a United shirt. De Gea's been deputised by Romero who's been very competent.
3. Anelka's penalty in Moscow really changed the narrative of that CL final. I've watched that final a few times and I think VDS had a poor game. He slipped for the Lampard goal and I recall him making another blunder that he got away with. We were hammering up until that goal if anyone remembers the game.
4. He also made costly mistakes in the 2009 and 2011 finals. He shouldn't have gotten beaten by Eto'o for the first goal in 2009 and he was weak for Messi's goal in 2011 final. I'd argue he was also caught stuck for Pedro's opening goal too. Barcelona obliterated us all over the pitch though, so his mistakes were the last thing on anyone's mind. But again they were big moments that he made mistakes in.

Well he was Instrumental in our defense when we went on that 14 game consecutive clean sheet run the year we won the league.
Excellent foot work and was able to offer us a sweeper type player in defense.
Safest hands in goal since Schmeichel and stabilized the defense when he came in.
He was a brilliant signing for us.

 

[Class of 63]

Stopped reading at His deputies lets be honest were frankly total shit

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I'm thinking there is no way you can call De Gea flawless when you consider command of the area. I rate that as hugely important especially when you look at some of the center backs we have had (which isn't his fault and his shot stopping has covered for I admit). Don't get me wrong he's been superb over a long period of time and I'm very glad we had him but his style has never given me the confidence his record should.

I agree with this and it's why I rate VDS higher than Dave.

 

[Gazza]

Disclaimer : I'm a huge Edwin fan, I thought he was a class act & a big part of the late 00s team. But I just want to look over his stint again, and I feel like a few things really seem to go in his favour which probably make his time here appear better than it was? Especially compared to De Gea who came after.

1. The huge list of liabilities that were in our goal after big Pete's retirement meant that once we finally did get a sane keeper in VDS, it probably meant we could really see the difference a goodkeeper makes to your club. I mean Roy Carroll was in goal in the 2005 FA Cup final in the shoot out, and looked like he wasn't getting anywhere near any of Arsenal's penalties. So once VDS came, it was a huge sigh of relief. De Gea obviously followed up VDS himself.
2. His deputies lets be honest were frankly total shit. Kuszczak & Foster were dreadful keepers & whenever Edwin was missing they let us know exactly what we were missing. Kuszczak cost us a potential treble by getting sent off in that QF against Portsmouth and Foster was a bag of nerves whenever get got anywhere near a United shirt. De Gea's been deputised by Romero who's been very competent.
3. Anelka's penalty in Moscow really changed the narrative of that CL final. I've watched that final a few times and I think VDS had a poor game. He slipped for the Lampard goal and I recall him making another blunder that he got away with. We were hammering up until that goal if anyone remembers the game.
4. He also made costly mistakes in the 2009 and 2011 finals. He shouldn't have gotten beaten by Eto'o for the first goal in 2009 and he was weak for Messi's goal in 2011 final. I'd argue he was also caught stuck for Pedro's opening goal too. Barcelona obliterated us all over the pitch though, so his mistakes were the last thing on anyone's mind. But again they were big moments that he made mistakes in.

#1 I kinda see your point but not really. You're saying that we only appreciated VDS as a great keeper because we previously had keepers that weren't so great? I mean, yeah, I guess so, but that seems pretty obvious, and also it's based on the fact that VDS is demonstrably a GK for the very highest level whereas the other names you mentioned are midtable PL keepers.

#2 Basically the same point as #1 but even less logical. You're saying that our back up keepers (who were both midtable PL keepers) showed us what we were missing when we played? Yes, that is correct. Because of the difference in quality between them... so I am not sure what your point is here.

#3 Every goalkeeper makes mistakes. Did Schmeichel make a mistake standing behind his wall for Basler's free kick in 1999? Probably. He also made saves to keep us in the game and in other big matches that season - so did VDS. Edwin made a great save that stopped Rio Ferdinand scoring an own goal in Moscow. And that pitch was drenched in rain. I think when you're using this as a stick to beat VDS with it shows how weak your argument is, tbh.

#4 Weak goalkeeping for the Eto'o goal. Don't agree about the rest. Again, you could look at any goalkeeper's career and find mistakes in big games. I always thought Buffon should have got more criticism for his meltdown in the last minute of that Juventus-Real Madrid match, but I'm not going to use it to suggest that Gigi wasn't actually all that.

VDS benefited from our awesome back line and our awesome back line benefited from VDS. That's about the long and short of it.

 

[432JuanMata]

Not as good as De Gea but Jesus that OP was full of shit he was excellent here. Also saying he was awful in some games apples to every player/keeper Jesus DeGea was woeful at the end of last season sure I’ve seen Peter have woeful games.
Also Kuzsack was a good backup keeper

 

[freeurmind]

Also Edwin was excellent with his feet and had a good throw which suited our style of play for the time. Did very well for us.

 

[Feed Me]

VDS was light years ahead of DDG. Never had to be flashy to be effective.

 

[Matt007a]

Not as good a shot stopper as De Gea or as dominating a presence as Schmeichel but I actually think he was the most rounded of the 3. I’m not saying he was the best but I think it’s unfair to say he was anything less than a top class goalkeeper.

He was a good shot stopper, he was happy to come and take crosses, he was excellent with the ball at his feet and he was a great organiser of the defence. Schmeichel wasn't great with the ball at his feet and had a tendency to get lobbed. De Gea has absolutely no presence and is a liability at any ball into the box yet both are/were considered world class at their peaks.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Not as good a shot stopper as De Gea or as dominating a presence as Schmeichel but I actually think he was the most rounded of the 3. I’m not saying he was the best but I think it’s unfair to say he was anything less than a top class goalkeeper.

He was a good shot stopper, he was happy to come and take crosses, he was excellent with the ball at his feet and he was a great organiser of the defence. Schmeichel wasn't great with the ball at his feet and had a tendency to get lobbed. De Gea has absolutely no presence and is a liability at any ball into the box yet both are/were considered world class at their peaks.

I agree with lots of this. I have De Gea as the worst of the three. VDS's consistency and all round excellence trumps De Gea's supernatural shot stopping ability but lack of area command and mediocre distribution.

 

[Harry190]

Were they really mistakes?

 

[AKDevil]

No I won't hear a word said against him. I rate him higher than De Gea overall he was more consistent.

Same. Better than DDG.

 

[spottieottiedopaliscious]

VDS was amazing keeper in my opinion. Those few games you are talking about were against the best teams in the world at the time and some of the best players like Messi and Eto. It wasn’t like no name scrubs were making him look foolish. I think Messi has probably made every keeper look off.

I was trying to remember what season it was when we went forever without a goal conceded in all comps. That was some span and a lot had to do with the player between the sticks.

 

[Red_Aaron]

VDS was especially good for Rio imo
Gave him an option when nothing forward was on which stopped him over playing sometimes.
Rio produced his best football with VDS behind him and his best football was World no.1 CB imho

 

[Amir]

He was brilliant for us. Yeah, he probably had a better defence than Schmeichel and De Gea ever had, but he also played a part in it. He was the perfect fit for our mix.

Retired at 40, but looking at him playing, he could have easily gone on playing.