Seriously, I don't know where your claims about US and venezuela about food poverty goes against the part that you boldened on my post
Capitalism doesn't work either. This is why every advanced and almost all developing countries have mixed economies.
Capitalism doesn't works for the vast majority of the world. And socialism is the future as shown by nordic countries are transitioning constantly towards it
Sorry, I clearly misread your original comment. I thought you had suggested that food poverty in the US was just as bad as Venezuela, but I see that wasn't what you were saying.Seriously, I don't know where your claims about US and venezuela about food poverty goes against the part that you boldened on my post
The Nordic model, from wikipedia "The Nordic model refers to the economic and social policies common to the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Greenland, the Faroe Islands, and Sweden). This includes a comprehensive welfare state and collective bargaining at the national level with a high percentage of the workforce unionized while being based on the economic foundations of free market capitalism".
I disagree, but none of that is relevant to Venezuela - where socialism was attempted and has failed spectacularly.
None of the Nordic countries are socialist in any remote sense.
Thats why I put transitioning? of course they have parts of it, as other countries in EU has it is free education and free healthcare. I guarantee that this is socialist and not capitalist but everybody take it for granted
As I answered, I said transitioning, and as I answered to someone else, all advanced economies adds more and more socialist concepts in their policies.
Okay, Nordic economies are not transitioning to socialism. If they are, they can look at Venezuela and marvel at their grand futures.
Really? tell me more.
Saying that is like saying that US they can look at Zimbabwe and marvel at their grand futures because that African country is capitalist. No sense at all
It's strange seeing someone say Zimbabwe is a capitalist economy; I'm Zimbabwean have never considered it such - land grabs, capital controls, secret police, disrespect of private property, price controls... yeah sounds capitalist.
That's right, you haven't. Because wherever socialist economies are attempted, they always fail and degenerate into regular old dicatorships. Hence my initial post: socialism doesn't work.
yeah right.
Every time a place has tried to get close to unregulated, laissez-faire captialism the results have been a disaster. From all the problems of worker safety conditions in the late 1880-90s to the problems leading to the Crash of 29 and the Great Depression to more recently how the laissez-faire prescriptions for post Soviet collapse Russia were a failure.
Well, not because I call a table a chair the table is a chair. The same, not because a regime calls themselve socialist, is socialist. Socialist is a political system and as you said "Capitalism seems to be a broad term that encompasses whatever is happening in the world", socialist seems to be a broad term that encompasses failed socialist economies". They were just that, dictatorships that spiked their economies with socialism policies and failed. Like nordic countries (and european economies at a lower degree) that spiked their economies with socialist policies and thrive. And the more they do, the more they advance as collective society. And again, don't put words in my post I didn't say. I didn't say they are socialists. I said they are transitioning
Unfortunately it does as too much misinformation is spread about "capitalism versus socialism".
I vote for Socialism with Gucci boots.
Mixed/balanced sounds just fine to me, as long we can accept that different economies in different stages of development require different state : private-driven ratios. But perhaps that is the source of the debate over the terminology.
True that. Though then what we do with the forum if we have to agree with everything?
You might want to reconsider those boots
where do I procure?There are seemingly very different ideas of what socialism means, but my understanding is this: As long as these societies have private property, a market economy & commodity production, they have some variation of a capitalist economy. A social democratic leaning one to be sure, but in my book the term socialism means collectivized means of production of some sort.
One key question is: Is that economic model reproducible in any national economy (say, Venezuela, or India, or Zimbabwe), or does it have specific historical/economical preconditions that may be or may not be met in a given society?
Yeah that’s key. My own instincts lead me to believe there is probably no one-size-fits-all system, but that extremities at either end of the spectrum are bound to fail wherever/whenever implemented. That is how I approach political systems/ideologies, but I’m on much less solid ground assessing economic systems or models.
The problem in the US (and by extension the rest of the Americas) is that the right wing has pushed this euphemistic, misleading idea that any form of social welfare or social safety net = "socialism". And for too long many of the left shied away from actually studying economics so a lot of people on the left also misunderstood it and fell into ridiculous rhetoric traps. I've run into some really thick individuals trying to explain the simple idea of a mixed economy that isn't really one or the other but mixes both. Seems like a simple concept right?
Absolutely, not every political system fits every country and at every time. Everything needs a kind of mentality and education that might be taught but it can take generations and historical circumstances that brought that society at that point. Even language has influence the way we behave. That is why I found ridiculous the sentence "bring democracy to X country". Is not any one business to get into a foreign country to change the economic system, that is what they want to do with the excuse that there is a "bad guy"
You mean examples like:
Yes, exactly. Too much of that type of thinking and people that fall into it.
Interesting, thanks. Strengthens the point that each societal model needs to be viewed in light of its own particular history.
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