Venezuela - Guyana tensions over territory

[VorZakone]

So...apparently Venezuela is holding a referendum Sunday on the question of the Essequibo region of Guyana. Guyana sees the referendum as a case of annexation.

Their village, Surama, is part of Guyana’s Essequibo region — a territory larger than Greece and rich in oil and minerals that Venezuela claims as its own and whose future it intends to decide Sunday with a referendum.

The practical and legal implications of the vote, which among other things calls for turning Essequibo into a Venezuelan state, remain unclear, but the referendum has left area residents on edge.

Guyana sees the referendum as a case of annexation and asked the International Court of Justice on Nov. 14 to halt parts of the vote. The court has not issued a decision, but even if it rules against Venezuela, Maduro’s government intends to hold the election Sunday.

https://apnews.com/article/venezuel...o-referendum-d3e65757ca8da2355994ec8a44c148ba

 

[Vidyoyo]

Isn't Vuvuzela about 4 times bigger than Guyana? Maybe they should just concede defeat now before their inevitable and terrible demise comes.

Plus who even is Guy Ana?

 

[Frosty]

America to invoke the Monroe doctrine in 3... 2...

 

[4bars]

Isn't Vuvuzela about 4 times bigger than Guyana? Maybe they should just concede defeat now before their inevitable and terrible demise comes.

Plus who even is Guy Ana?

Great and welcoming people and a beautiful and untouched place. They helped me out heaps when I was backpacking there, inviting me at their places and meet their families. With a cuisine that is a mix between african and indian cuisine. Very undeveloped but certainly I would not chose being part of Venezuela nowadays.

 

[ExoduS]

More opportunity for ya to X us to death.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

I'm surprised this doesn't get more attention in the news, but someone whom I follow on Twitter pointed it out as the direct consequence of the invasion of Ukraine. Dictatorships are having a field day until democracies put all necessary efforts in putting a definitive end to the madness.

Maduro is basically about to annex Guayana Esequiba, which basically counts for over 60% of the Guyanese territory and has several natural resources such as oil, gas, gold, diamonds and timber.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/venezuela-guyana-tensions-over-territory.480370/#post-31385823

 

[TwoSheds]

Any news on this one? Putting an end to the fossil fuel industry would do democracy the power of good.

 

[VorZakone]

Any news on this one? Putting an end to the fossil fuel industry would do democracy the power of good.

The referendum is tomorrow I think.

 

[VorZakone]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[WPMUFC]

how are the tankies justifying another imperialist expansion by another one of their BBFs this time?

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

how are the tankies justifying another imperialist expansion by another one of their BBFs this time?

Tankies anywhere can all get fecked for all I care, especially because of the double standards on conflicts. For them it's bad if the US or one of its allies are on the atttack, but those it's fine and dandy if Russia/Venezuela/China/Iran fecks an innocent neighboring country. I have no respect for those people whatsoever.

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

Guyana is my homeland. Venezuela better back the feck up.

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

Isn't Vuvuzela about 4 times bigger than Guyana? Maybe they should just concede defeat now before their inevitable and terrible demise comes.

Plus who even is Guy Ana?

I'm Guyanese.

Great and welcoming people and a beautiful and untouched place. They helped me out heaps when I was backpacking there, inviting me at their places and meet their families. With a cuisine that is a mix between african and indian cuisine. Very undeveloped but certainly I would not chose being part of Venezuela nowadays.

Guyana is beautiful and wild but in a good way. Whereabouts did you visit?

 

[4bars]

I'm Guyanese.

Guyana is beautiful and wild but in a good way. Whereabouts did you visit?

Had quite an adventure there. First I entered through south via Brazilian border and went up to georgetown. But midway in a control, I exchange contacts with a US girl that was working in the Peace corps as she invited me to couchsurf into her place. But as I was travelling without cell I had first to find a place with internet in georgetown to contact once there. For whatever reason, my laptop charger was not working either, so I randomly entered to a restaurant where I asked for a meal and I saw someones charger that worked with mine. And I ask the woman if I could use it and she said yes. I ended speaking with her for a long hour and able to contact my couchsurfing contact and when I went to pay, it resulted that the woman was the owner and she didn't let me pay and left to my couchsurfing contact. There I spend a few days. where she introduced me to some of her friends and then I decided to go to see the Caieteur falls. They asked me 900 USD but then that meant 2 months travelling do I stupidly decided to go by myself so I hitchiked down to Madia, paid a miner to give me a boat ride to a mining camp and ask for directions. They told me that the falls where at 5 hours walk and I would maybe cross 2, 3 streams And that if the trail disappeared to follow the main river.

1st day, a group of people tried to steal the mine with machetes. The chief said not to worry and he accompanied me to the head trail. After30 minutes, the trail disappear so I astarted to walk beside the riverside and that day I ended crossing about 80 streams, some of them swiming 20-30 meters (I had 2 big plastic bags for my bagpack thinking I would not need it that much). And all under pure untouched jungle. Walked 10 hours, plants leaves cutting my arms and legs. No sign of falls

2nd, pouring rain and me shouting like a madman STOP RAINING!!! I was scared. 5 hours in an no falls/ Jumped to the main river to have a better visual and I didn't see a sign. Only brought food and water for 3 days and it was 1.5 days already so I turned back. 1 hour in going back I saw a better place to cross a stream and a bee nest started to attack me so I had to jump inside the main river. At this point it was 3 meters down and I sumerged to avoid the bees and swam underwater. I had to climb back through mud and roots. And as I had not time to put the plastic bags, my reflex camera and my kindle got feck. My laptop was with my couchsurfer friend. Continued walking to the same place I slept the first night.

3rd day started walking and after a while, as on the 2nd day rain so hard, the main river overflown so as I didn't want to lose the river as my point os reference, I started to walk in a swampy area. constant water around my waist/chest for 1-2 hours and getting paranoid of all the documentaries that ive seen in my life. So paranoid that I left the area and lost the side of the river. I have a good sense of direction, or so I thought.I walked for 1-2 hours and decided to go back to find where I thourhg I would find the river...With not luck. I got lost and after 1-2 hours more I found another big river and follow it in case was going to the main river or somwhere. After 30 minutes I realized that it was the main river but I walked on circles so I was going back up again. I ended getting out crying. When to the mining camp and I ask. You mofos told me that it was 5 hours and a couple of streams!!! and a guy said. "5 hours? that is in the dry season. in the rainy season is 2 days. Godam it. They invite me to some drinks and of I go to georgetown to lick my wounds.

Then I went to suriname and in the microbus (a van) I start to chat with a woman of indian decend on the way to the border and as I didn't have a place to sleep she invited me to her family house where i spend the night and have dinner with all her extended family, playing with the kids and left next day. we still right a random message in FB after 10 years.

A different country, specially in latinamerica and all generosity and wilderness. Has a piece in my heart for my stupidity. Seeing those brittish colonial houses in the middle of the city center, the markets out of the open, the fusion of your cusine...and I saw a jaguar on ther road at 3 am! Loved it all. And hopefully, Maduro keeps his dirty hands from it

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

Had quite an adventure there. First I entered through south via Brazilian border and went up to georgetown. But midway in a control, I exchange contacts with a US girl that was working in the Peace corps as she invited me to couchsurf into her place. But as I was travelling without cell I had first to find a place with internet in georgetown to contact once there. For whatever reason, my laptop charger was not working either, so I randomly entered to a restaurant where I asked for a meal and I saw someones charger that worked with mine. And I ask the woman if I could use it and she said yes. I ended speaking with her for a long hour and able to contact my couchsurfing contact and when I went to pay, it resulted that the woman was the owner and she didn't let me pay and left to my couchsurfing contact. There I spend a few days. where she introduced me to some of her friends and then I decided to go to see the Caieteur falls. They asked me 900 USD but then that meant 2 months travelling do I stupidly decided to go by myself so I hitchiked down to Madia, paid a miner to give me a boat ride to a mining camp and ask for directions. They told me that the falls where at 5 hours walk and I would maybe cross 2, 3 streams And that if the trail disappeared to follow the main river.

1st day, a group of people tried to steal the mine with machetes. The chief said not to worry and he accompanied me to the head trail. After30 minutes, the trail disappear so I astarted to walk beside the riverside and that day I ended crossing about 80 streams, some of them swiming 20-30 meters (I had 2 big plastic bags for my bagpack thinking I would not need it that much). And all under pure untouched jungle. Walked 10 hours, plants leaves cutting my arms and legs. No sign of falls

2nd, pouring rain and me shouting like a madman STOP RAINING!!! I was scared. 5 hours in an no falls/ Jumped to the main river to have a better visual and I didn't see a sign. Only brought food and water for 3 days and it was 1.5 days already so I turned back. 1 hour in going back I saw a better place to cross a stream and a bee nest started to attack me so I had to jump inside the main river. At this point it was 3 meters down and I sumerged to avoid the bees and swam underwater. I had to climb back through mud and roots. And as I had not time to put the plastic bags, my reflex camera and my kindle got feck. My laptop was with my couchsurfer friend. Continued walking to the same place I slept the first night.

3rd day started walking and after a while, as on the 2nd day rain so hard, the main river overflown so as I didn't want to lose the river as my point os reference, I started to walk in a swampy area. constant water around my waist/chest for 1-2 hours and getting paranoid of all the documentaries that ive seen in my life. So paranoid that I left the area and lost the side of the river. I have a good sense of direction, or so I thought.I walked for 1-2 hours and decided to go back to find where I thourhg I would find the river...With not luck. I got lost and after 1-2 hours more I found another big river and follow it in case was going to the main river or somwhere. After 30 minutes I realized that it was the main river but I walked on circles so I was going back up again. I ended getting out crying. When to the mining camp and I ask. You mofos told me that it was 5 hours and a couple of streams!!! and a guy said. "5 hours? that is in the dry season. in the rainy season is 2 days. Godam it. They invite me to some drinks and of I go to georgetown to lick my wounds.

Then I went to suriname and in the microbus (a van) I start to chat with a woman of indian decend on the way to the border and as I didn't have a place to sleep she invited me to her family house where i spend the night and have dinner with all her extended family, playing with the kids and left next day. we still right a random message in FB after 10 years.

A different country, specially in latinamerica and all generosity and wilderness. Has a piece in my heart for my stupidity. Seeing those brittish colonial houses in the middle of the city center, the markets out of the open, the fusion of your cusine...and I saw a jaguar on ther road at 3 am! Loved it all. And hopefully, Maduro keeps his dirty hands from it

Oh wow you had a real adventure. That jungle isn't a place to go alone. We have very hospitable people but we also have our fair share of robbers and thieves in those jungle. It's majority gold miners that's venturing in there so easy picking for the ones who want easy money.
The part of being offered food is a Guyanese tradition. I still have that habit to feed everyone. I hope you had a chance to taste our roti and curry. It's insanely good and light compared to traditional Indian curry.
It was very brave of you to want to tackle that jungle by yourself but the kiateur is so worth it. I think it's the tallest free falling waterfalls. I've nerver been because it is too expensive for the regular person that lives there. I can afford it now but I'd never set food in those little little planes they use for transportation.
Maybe you can go back one day and see it. They have proper roads to Brazil now. I used to frequent those parts for the Brazilian rodeo down in the Savanahs. You were on the opposite side of where Venezuela is claiming. I've never been to those parts either not it's absolute gorgeous as well.
I do hope they can keep Maduro off our land but some say it's diversion tactics. Guyana has allowed millions of Venezuelans to see refuge and now this? He's one ungrateful piece of shit. Venezuelans have been pouring in since their country became a shit hole. Hopefully someone can stick up for us because we've never been at war and wouldn't know the first thing about defense. It's unfortunate that we have to exist near Venezuela. We're now mining oil after years of being bullied by them. There's oil so people will Hopefully come to help.

 

[4bars]

Oh wow you had a real adventure. That jungle isn't a place to go alone. We have very hospitable people but we also have our fair share of robbers and thieves in those jungle. It's majority gold miners that's venturing in there so easy picking for the ones who want easy money.
The part of being offered food is a Guyanese tradition. I still have that habit to feed everyone. I hope you had a chance to taste our roti and curry. It's insanely good and light compared to traditional Indian curry.
It was very brave of you to want to tackle that jungle by yourself but the kiateur is so worth it. I think it's the tallest free falling waterfalls. I've nerver been because it is too expensive for the regular person that lives there. I can afford it now but I'd never set food in those little little planes they use for transportation.
Maybe you can go back one day and see it. They have proper roads to Brazil now. I used to frequent those parts for the Brazilian rodeo down in the Savanahs. You were on the opposite side of where Venezuela is claiming. I've never been to those parts either not it's absolute gorgeous as well.
I do hope they can keep Maduro off our land but some say it's diversion tactics. Guyana has allowed millions of Venezuelans to see refuge and now this? He's one ungrateful piece of shit. Venezuelans have been pouring in since their country became a shit hole. Hopefully someone can stick up for us because we've never been at war and wouldn't know the first thing about defense. It's unfortunate that we have to exist near Venezuela. We're now mining oil after years of being bullied by them. There's oil so people will Hopefully come to help.

Tried roti, curry and the potato ball among others. I love spicy so I enjoyed that part. And yes, not smart what I did in the jungle...damn right stupid but I have a good stoy at least. And definitely kaieteur is on the list. Maybe one day.

Sure there are thieves and robbers....like everywhere else. developed countries also. But I only had good experiences so there is that.

So there is an asphalted road to brazil now? I remember that it took us 14-15 hours from brazilto georgetown along a red strip of earthy road, stopping 2-3 hours to sleep to wait for the ferries open

And yes, oil might save you, but oil is what is what is causing all this also. Is fecked up

Does the referendum happens in venezuela or in esequibo area?

 

[VorZakone]

Venezuela referendum result: voters back bid to claim sovereignty over large swath of Guyana

Venezuelans have approved a referendum called by the government of President Nicolás Maduro to claim sovereignty over an oil- and mineral-rich piece of neighbouring Guyana, the country’s electoral authority announced.

Few voters could be seen at voting centres, but the National Electoral Council claimed more than 10.5 million ballots were cast in the country of 20 million eligible voters.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...a-region-claim-succeeds-sovereignty-essequibo

 

[TwoSheds]

I thought Chavez had one or two good bones in his body but Maduro has none. Scumbag.

 

[WPMUFC]

Venezuela referendum result: voters back bid to claim sovereignty over large swath of Guyana


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...a-region-claim-succeeds-sovereignty-essequibo

 

[4bars]

Venezuela referendum result: voters back bid to claim sovereignty over large swath of Guyana


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...a-region-claim-succeeds-sovereignty-essequibo

So they asked the venezuelans, but not the people in esequibo. That seems fair

 

[Raven]

So they asked the venezuelans, but not the people in esequibo. That seems fair

Yup totally normal behaviour.

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

Tried roti, curry and the potato ball among others. I love spicy so I enjoyed that part. And yes, not smart what I did in the jungle...damn right stupid but I have a good stoy at least. And definitely kaieteur is on the list. Maybe one day.

Sure there are thieves and robbers....like everywhere else. developed countries also. But I only had good experiences so there is that.

So there is an asphalted road to brazil now? I remember that it took us 14-15 hours from brazilto georgetown along a red strip of earthy road, stopping 2-3 hours to sleep to wait for the ferries open

And yes, oil might save you, but oil is what is what is causing all this also. Is fecked up

Does the referendum happens in venezuela or in esequibo area?

We all know Maduro won't play fair. He's always itching for a conflict. I wonder if there's any validity to his claims.

It's not the best road and you still have to be a skilled bush driver to navigate it. Whenever there's heavy rainfall it's still treacherous.

Potato balls with the mango sauce I make really good ones and I also make a good eggball that goes well with fresh cane juice.

 

[Revan]

Will anyone help Guyana if Venezuela really invades?

 

[VorZakone]

Highly doubt Venezuela will invade. Then again, I was telling people Putin wouldn't invade so what do I know.

 

[4bars]

Highly doubt Venezuela will invade. Then again, I was telling people Putin wouldn't invade so what do I know.

the problem is that now the world's autocrats sees an opportunity with the conflicts of russia/ukraine and israel/palestine. Can the West and basically US open another front? And if so, can the US support a maybe 4th one somewhere else? and with all that, maintaining the strategy to defend Taiwan?

Is strange.

Russia doing that in Ukraine
Hamas (Iran proxy) attacked Israel that provoke the instensification of the conflict to another level
Venezuela now with guyana

All 3 with somewhat common interests with China. COuld it be a strategy from China to spread thin US and spend military resources to Invade Taiwan, as they say, around 2027? I am smarter than all US intelligence?

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

Will anyone help Guyana if Venezuela really invades?

I hope so. If we were still a British colony they wouldn't dare.

 

[Red in STL]

I hope so. If we were still a British colony they wouldn't dare.

Wanna bet, the UK military is a shadow of it's former self, it's debatable whether it could defend Britain never mind a colony, former or otherwise

 

[4bars]

Wanna bet, the UK military is a shadow of it's former self, it's debatable whether it could defend Britain never mind a colony, former or otherwise

From Venezuela?

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Will anyone help Guyana if Venezuela really invades?

It was said over the weekend that Brazilian forces are on high alert. Someone with better knowledge of South American geopolitics might be able to give me a heads-up, but I guess Brazil cannot and will not just sit there in the event of an invasion as a conflict could easily spill out on Brazilian soil. And besides, the Brazilians probably have the most potent military force on the continent.

 

[TwoSheds]

It was said over the weekend that Brazilian forces are on high alert. Someone with better knowledge of South American geopolitics might be able to give me a heads-up, but I guess Brazil cannot and will not just sit there in the event of an invasion as a conflict could easily spill out on Brazilian soil. And besides, the Brazilians probably have the most potent military force on the continent.

That and they wouldn't want to endanger their access to the resources there you'd assume.

 

[4bars]

It was said over the weekend that Brazilian forces are on high alert. Someone with better knowledge of South American geopolitics might be able to give me a heads-up, but I guess Brazil cannot and will not just sit there in the event of an invasion as a conflict could easily spill out on Brazilian soil. And besides, the Brazilians probably have the most potent military force on the continent.

As far as I read, the brazilian army is reinforcing their borders because they don't want the venezuela army to walk freely through brazilian territory, even jungle, to invade guyana. But doubt they will do anything as long as they don't cross the border with brazil

 

[Red in STL]

From Venezuela?

Venezuela aren't attacking the UK but it's debatable that the UK could intervene in Guyana today, the Navy doesn't have the ships, army numbers are at their lowest troop levels in centuries and the airforce doesn't have enough long range aircraft

 

[4bars]

Venezuela aren't attacking the UK but it's debatable that the UK could intervene in Guyana today, the Navy doesn't have the ships, army numbers are at their lowest troop levels in centuries and the airforce doesn't have enough long range aircraft

Oh. I know that NOW UK maybe would do little. But @Scarlett Dracarys said IF Guyana would be a brittish colony, therefore a UK territory. Like for example the Falklands. Then for sure Venezuela would not dare to invade a UK colony

Another matter is that Guyana is part of the Commonwealth, so there is that to take in account for optics only

 

[Red in STL]

Oh. I know that NOW UK maybe would do little. But @Scarlett Dracarys said IF Guyana would be a brittish colony, therefore a UK territory. Like for example the Falklands. Then for sure Venezuela would not dare to invade a UK colony

Another matter is that Guyana is part of the Commonwealth, so there is that to take in account for optics only

If the Argies were capable of taking the Falkland's now like they did in 1982, kicking them out would be a much more difficult task than it was then, since 1982 the RN has shrunk in size by 74% in terms of ships and the RFA is well short of what it needs + there's all the gear they've sent to Ukeaine, knowing tmhe current government the poor squaddies would probably run out of bulltes in a couple of days!

 

[4bars]

If the Argies were capable of taking the Falkland's now like they did in 1982, kicking them out would be a much more difficult task than it was then, since 1982 the RN has shrunk in size by 74% in terms of ships and the RFA is well short of what it needs + there's all the gear they've sent to Ukeaine, knowing tmhe current government the poor squaddies would probably run out of bulltes in a couple of days!

Still uk is one of the top 10 armies in the world with the most powerful allies. Venezuela would not have a chance in an open war, not talking about proxy war just helping guyana in the middle of the jungle.

 

[owlo]

Owen Jones and co are kinda silent now.

 

[nimic]

Owen Jones and co are kinda silent now.

Silent about?

 

[owlo]

Silent about?

https://issuu.com/venezuelasolidaritycampaign/docs/viva_venezuela_volume_2_issue_2

Spoiler

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

https://capx.co/venezuelas-useful-idiots-have-gone-quiet-i-wonder-why/

From the last article:
Of course, one of Chávez’s foremost fans was the man who now leads the Labour Party. At a pro-Chavez rally in London, Jeremy Corbyn said: “Chavez … showed us that there is a different, and a better way of doing things. It’s called socialism”. In an article on his website (now deleted), he wrote: “Venezuela is seriously conquering poverty by emphatically rejecting … Neo Liberal policies … As with Cuba the threat to the USA by Venezuela is not military … It is far more insidious, a threat by example of what social justice can achieve.”

At a pro-Venezuela event in the UK, Diane Abbott opined: “[Chavez] showed the region that it was possible to do things differently … I feel particularly passionate about defending the revolution of Venezuela and the Chavez legacy.”

Just brought it up as the left are starting to mobilise as pro-Venezuela/'anti colonialism' again, and to tie it into other conflicts. (Chavez is very anti Israel)

 

[VorZakone]

Essequibo: Venezuela moves to claim Guyana-controlled region

Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro is plunging ahead with its plans to take over Essequibo, the oil-rich region controlled by neighbouring Guyana.
He has ordered the state oil company to issue extraction licences there and proposed the National Assembly pass a bill making the area part of Venezuela.

Guyana has put its defence forces on full alert in response.

Venezuelan voters on Sunday approved a referendum claiming rights over Essequibo, ratcheting up tensions.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-67635646