VF Draft Finals - harms vs Himannv

Who will win the match?


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    12
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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vs

....................................... TEAM HARMS ................................................................................................... TEAM HIMANNV ...................................................

TEAM HARMS

Attack

Dropping Tom Finney was originally a part of the plan in order to switch to a midfield diamond but calling Edgar out seemed to change his plans, so fair enough. Pavel Nedvěd was an absolute beast on his own and I love him to bits though and the thing I like the most is that this pick allows me to utilise Oleg Blokhin in a slightly unconventional way — which is what this draft is all about, surely. By default Blokhin is usually used as a wide left forward in a front three or, slightly less so, as a part of a front two, but he almost never gets placed on the right where he’s had some of his best games for both Dynamo Kiyv and Soviet Union. Both Nedvěd & Blokhin have enough experience on both wings and centrally but the original set up would see Nedvěd on the left and Blokhin on the right, with distinctly different roles allocated to them.

Nedvěd is going to be playing a bit deeper, linking up with Marcelo and his old pal Edgar Davids and carrying the ball forward. I’d imagine that he’ll often find himself centrally as a kind of a faux-trequartista — the role that he had often played in for both Lazio and Juve. Blokhin, on the other hand, will find himself further up the pitch, looking to receive the ball in the danger areas more than to drop back and carry it forward. It’s a free-flowing system so this doesn’t mean that there won’t be any scenarios where Blokhin carries the ball from the right back position only to find Nedvěd in the opposition’s box, but more often than not it’s going to happen another way. Denis Law is also the perfect facilitator for this set up with his tendency to one-twos, hard-work and versatility — not to mention his goalscoring feats.


Midfield

My midfield is roughly based on Borussia Mönchengladbach from the early 70’s — a central playmaker (the Inter version of Luis Suárez in the role of Günter Netzer) flanked by two midfield runners, mainly responsible for winning the ball. It’s a slightly unconventional way to set up a midfield three instead of a usual 2 number 8’s ahead of a defensive midfielder and I want to highlight that neither it is a set up with Luis Suárez in Andrea Pirlo’s role (just to make it clear). His role at Inter wasn’t all that different — he didn’t really have a sitting defensive midfielder next to him since Bedin/Tagnin were usually on a dedicated man-marking job, Corso and Jair manned the flanks & Mazzola was almost playing as a second striker, leaving Suárez as the only constant in the middle of the pitch, at the very heart of everything that Herrera’s Inter created.



The second formation is West Germany from 1972 — Hoeneß makes it a bit less complicated but Netzer's role is still the same.

Defense

The unbeatable defense remains the same — a simply perfect combination of Franco Baresi and Paul McGrath at the core (and while Kohler-Stam pairing is very intimidating on its own I do believe that my guys make a better pair, not only individually but also in terms of their comparability). And on the wings, two of the greatest fullbacks of this generation (an era when fullbacks suddenly found themselves as arguably the most important tactical role on the pitch) — Marcelo, who redefined what we expect from an attacking fullback altogether and Philipp Lahm, the smartest footballer that Pep had ever coached and simply a cheat-code for any system — he can play on both flanks, can play as a wing- and a fullback, he over- and underlaps with an equal ease, his passing is good enough for him to switch to central midfield, his crossing is precise and accurate and his tackling is as clean and efficient as that of Paolo Maldini or Bobby Moore. Ridiculous.



Thoughts on the opponent

Himannv didn’t get to the final by mistake — his team is really impressive, although I do believe that his side had peaked in the semi-final with that no-nonsense counter-attacking 5-3-2. Even so, there’s no obvious weakness in his set up, so I’m diving head in into the depths of nit-picking.

I just want to highlight that Himannv's brightest star, Roberto Baggio, has a pretty weak record against both of my centre backs.

Paul McGrath played against him twice in 2 consecutive World Cups, 1990 and 1994. Italy won 1:0 in 1990 due to a goal from Schillaci — Baggio wasn't very impressive and got substituted after 71 minutes, but to be fair they weren't directly playing against one another since McGrath played in midfield. The second game is more relevant though.

Roberto Baggio vs Paul McGrath. 1994 World Cup

Jason McAteer said:
When you write the narrative before the game, what he was going through, everything leading up to the game, the enormity of the game, the result. I think it's the greatest performance I've ever seen
Roy Keane said:
Big Paul McGrath showed all the qualities demanded of us for half an hour in Giants Stadium that day. For him the word big is appropriate. Known for his poise, his ability on the ball, his unique gift for reading the game, Paul displayed these qualities on this day. One other huge asset was his courage. When the Italians did get sight of the goal, Paul presented a final, insurmountable obstacle. Paul inspired us as much as in the end he demoralised Roberto Baggio and the other Italian players
There were so many battles on the day – the northern Europeans versus the unrelenting American sun being the most one-sided. But it was McGrath v Baggio that would ultimately decide the tie. The Italian forward was one of the most gifted players of his generation. He was the reigning Ballon d’Or and Fifa World Player of the Year winner going into the competition in the United States and lit up the World Cup with five goals. This was his tournament. It was his goals that got Italy to the final and his miss in the penalty shoot-out against Brazil that ended the Azzurri’s campaign. But, against McGrath and a stubborn Irish defence, Baggio wasn’t allowed to weave his magic.

Even the American cameraman detected that this was the defining battle of the game. McGrath’s body may have been in a delicate condition during the contest and at this stage of his career, but his mind was as sharp as ever. This was a cerebral battle as much as a physical one. Baggio dropped deep, drifted between the lines, made clever runs off his teammates and was a constant threat. But McGrath wouldn’t be beaten. Even when Italy significantly increased the tempo of the match after Ireland’s goal, McGrath did not wilt. This passage of play, in particular, was incredible. The Aston Villa defender was equal to everything Italy threw at him. And did it with a touch of class.

“On the really good days, football could be like that. Child’s play,” he said in his autobiography. The effort wasn’t conscious. I could play at an independent pace, bossing the striker with my ability to read things, to anticipate. On the really good days, you see, football was never physical. It was a mind game.”

However, lurking alongside this knowledge that he was a match for any striker in the game, was an insecurity that laced McGrath’s career. A little voice that attempted to bring him back down and reign in his genius.“I needed about five paces simply to find my stride. Against the likes of Giuseppe Signori and Roberto Baggio, that made for a pretty nerve-wracking ordeal. If you look at the photographs of that game, my arm may as well be in a sling. It’s hanging limp down by my side, like a snapped branch on a tree.”

But this was one day when the physical ailments, the insecurity and demons wouldn’t win. McGrath improved as the match progressed. The scorching sun, the best player in the world and the voices that looked to drag him down combined couldn’t lay a glove on the Irish defender.
“The longer the game went on, the more confident I became,” he said. There’s a chemistry that kicks in between defender and striker. One eventually knows that he is being manipulated by the other. That day, Baggio was no longer inclined to move in my direction. Signori had been substituted. It was over.”

The Irish players trudged back, breathless and exhausted, melting under the June sun as everyone in green around them screamed for the Dutch referee to blow for full-time.
Italy took the corner short and lofted the ball into the penalty area. “And that was when it happened,” McGrath said.
“That was the moment somebody turned down the sound and everything slowed. The moment I felt unbreakable. I knew it no longer mattered where I stood. The ball would find me.”
“Whatever about the reputation of the Italians, the giants today have been wearing green,” Hamilton said on commentary at the final whistle. McGrath was the biggest green giant of them all.

Roberto Baggio vs Franco Baresi

17 games against each other.
8 wins for Baresi, 3 wins for Baggio, 6 draws.
Baggio scored 4 goals, 2 of them from the penalty spot.
Baresi responded with 2 goals from the spot as well.


--------------------------------------

TEAM HIMANNV

Tactics:

Attacking phase:

  • In cases when it's not a counter and we have to build up, it will be a 3-2-5
  • Banks is actually quite good on the ball and a good distributor with his feet.
  • Dunga drops deeper to effectively form a back 3 and a strong defensive base. All 3 are decent to good on the ball.
  • Schweinstiger and Modric run the game from midfield with the defensive base behind them.
  • Fullbacks Zanetti and Cabrini push up the pitch.
  • Modric operates on the inside right position but also drops deeper to create from there if necessary..
  • Schweinstiger tasked with more activity on the left.
  • Baggio plays as a false 9 and drops into the hole to play in the wing forwards.
  • Boniek and Seeler make runs into space off the ball and give Baggio options to pass out to them.

Defensive phase:

  • Generally a zonal defence but with good defensive workrate.
  • Banks a top tier shot stopper.
  • Kohler and Stam are excellent at stopping the dangers from counters and are very good man markers.
  • Dunga shields the back 4 and is ably supported by Schweinstiger and Modric who help defend from the flanks.
  • Baggio, Boniek, and Seeler work hard and don't give the opposition defence much time on the ball and force the error.
 

harms

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Made this compilation for the final — 1 goal & 2 assists by Nedved in not to dissimilar role (he started out centrally and moved to the left later one from where he’s had his second assist after leaving Zanetti for dead).


Zanetti also said that Nedved was his toughest ever opponent although, to be fair, Nedved said the same about him (and it’s hard to argue with him).
 

harms

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Baggio, Boniek, and Seeler work hard and don't give the opposition defence much time on the ball and force the error.
I can’t really imagine Baggio doing that and pressing is something that you can’t do with one player out of sync, the system falls apart and becomes counterproductive. Boniek & Seeler are nice fits though.

Not to mention that my defenders are great/wonderful on the ball (and better than yours). My front three would cause more issues for your back line in terms of pressing (I’m not even talking about, well, goals).
 

Šjor Bepo

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Made this compilation for the final — 1 goal & 2 assists by Nedved in not to dissimilar role (he started out centrally and moved to the left later one from where he’s had his second assist after leaving Zanetti for dead).


Zanetti also said that Nedved was his toughest ever opponent although, to be fair, Nedved said the same about him (and it’s hard to argue with him).
not that relevant but thought he said that about Giggs? knowing footballers and their statements, he probably said it for both
 

Himannv

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I can’t really imagine Baggio doing that and pressing is something that you can’t do with one player out of sync, the system falls apart and becomes counterproductive. Boniek & Seeler are nice fits though.

Not to mention that my defenders are great/wonderful on the ball (and better than yours). My front three would cause more issues for your back line in terms of pressing (I’m not even talking about, well, goals).
It's not a high-press tactic. There will be defensive workrate required but not a complete press everywhere and it's generally zonal defence.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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No brainer from a freshness of ideas point of view.

Tell you what though, Suarez is my player of the tournament for sure.
 

General_Elegancia

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I think when you face Blokhin, Law and Nedved, one of very important things is a defender who can do something with the ball in setting phase. Three of them will pressure both Kohler and Stam for especially Blokhin who was Franz’s kryptonite, Blokhin had experienced of trouble Franz in a lot of occasions. Ball-playing defenders can prodigiously help in this game(especially in term of beating the press from @ Harms frontline and doing some beautiful long passes).

The question for @Himannv , how will you plan on setting up phase from the back? maybe, Modric occasionally drop deep to help setting up phase?

I will not vote anyone and will see your answer for my decision.
 

Gio

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not that relevant but thought he said that about Giggs? knowing footballers and their statements, he probably said it for both
Rob Jones too.

Like the use of Baggio here, very easy on the eye. Can folk who have watched more of Seeler comment on his fit for the role here - it seems to check out but would like it illustrated?

Teams seem set up to cancel each other out. My hunch is the best routes to goal are Boniek and Blokhin.
 

Himannv

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I think when you face Blokhin, Law and Nedved, one of very important things is a defender who can do something with the ball in setting phase. Three of them will pressure both Kohler and Stam for especially Blokhin who was Franz’s kryptonite, Blokhin had experienced of trouble Franz in a lot of occasions. Ball-playing defenders can prodigiously help in this game(especially in term of beating the press from @ Harms frontline and doing some beautiful long passes).

The question for @Himannv , how will you plan on setting up phase from the back? maybe, Modric occasionally drop deep to help setting up phase?

I will not vote anyone and will see your answer for my decision.
Schweinstiger, Dunga, and Modric are all well suited to dropping deeper and operating from there - in fact I think they all kind of perform that sort of role at their peaks. There's also lot of quality on the ball from the fullbacks so there are certainly options in terms of transitioning from defence to attack.

I believe Kohler and Stam are both good on the ball and underrated in this aspect although I accept they're not exactly prime Beckenbauer or anything like that. I think Blokhin vs Beckenbauer is a different sort of comparison as we're talking about a libero who is looking to run the game there so someone like Blokhin could certainly limit his influence - Stam and Kohler are not that type of player and don't look to do the same thing.

I also don't see anything in the tactics from harms that involve a press so I don't know if it will be relevant in this game or not.
 

harms

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Rob Jones too.

Like the use of Baggio here, very easy on the eye. Can folk who have watched more of Seeler comment on his fit for the role here - it seems to check out but would like it illustrated?

Teams seem set up to cancel each other out. My hunch is the best routes to goal are Boniek and Blokhin.
I think Pep said that Baggio would’ve been a false 9 today, which makes perfect sense.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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I think Pep said that Baggio would’ve been a false 9 today, which makes perfect sense.
Platini called him a 9.5 as well. Had tried him in this role in one of my older draft teams but the rest of the team was relatively not of great quality compared to the draft pool so could only play him in one game. Always wanted to try it out again but never got a chance. Great if a draft final is won with this role with such an open pool.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/sheep-draft-qf-enigma-vs-gstq-brian-clough.452992/
 

Physiocrat

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I don't like doing this but it looks a draw. I was unsure on Baggio as a false 9 but am now perfectly happy with it.

Himman could possibly do with more of a ball player at CB but Kohler was pretty good and Dunga as a pivot makes that much less of an issue.
 

Šjor Bepo

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h-man has Schuster? Why not Schweini at DM with Schuster in a b2b role? That would make a much better midfield then this which is still good mind you.
 

harms

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h-man has Schuster? Why not Schweini at DM with Schuster in a b2b role? That would make a much better midfield then this which is still good mind you.
I’m pretty sure that we’ve had to drop every bench player.
 

harms

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Good game @Himannv
Lovely move to create that slightly unconventional front three, which is very much in the spirit of the draft and you can see it working very well.

Thanks for the draft @Edgar Allan Pillow, the reinforcements especially were really interesting & challenging.