Virgil van Dijk | Performances

[giorno]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I have seen all those guys bar Bruce and Adams(seen a bit of Adams). Excluding those 2, yes, he might be the best of the lot. Stam and Rio are the other 2 contenders. He's better than the others

Edit: talking about the defensive phase only. Overall as a player he's by far the best of that lot. In attack he's up there with Sergio Ramos, just orders of magnitude better than the rest

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I have seen all those guys bar Bruce and Adams(seen a bit of Adams). Excluding those 2, yes, he might be the best of the lot. Stam and Rio are the other 2 contenders. He's better than the others

Edit: talking about the defensive phase only. Overall as a player he's by far the best of that lot. In attack he's up there with Sergio Ramos, just orders of magnitude better than the rest

Desailly and Vidic are easily better than him on their overall career.

I feel Kompany is a bit overrated, mostly due to the narrative linked to the need to create City "legends". I'd say he and VVD are relatively similar overall, though Van Dijk had a higher ceiling - but lower lows also, for me.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

The same guy says ‘if you’re 13’ then in the first comment says Paul McGrath didn’t play in the PL era when he won Footballer of the Year in 1992/93 - the only other defender to win it apart from Van Dijk in that time.

Notice it’s always United accounts that say that too.

 

[giorno]

Desailly and Vidic are easily better than him on their overall career.

Only if you judge them purely on the defensive phase, and I disagree, but it's arguable I guess. They're all top defenders anyways. Van Dijk is just on a completely different level when you look at the overall package though. In attack he's just one of the best CBs ever - the others aren't even in the same dimension here

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Only if you judge them purely on the defensive phase, and I disagree, but it's arguable I guess. They're all top defenders anyways. Van Dijk is just on a completely different level when you look at the overall package though. In attack he's just one of the best CBs ever - the others aren't even in the same dimension here

To be fair Vidic scored 15 goals in 211, Van Dijk has 18 in 185, it’s not that different in terms of goal scoring threat. Vidic scored more than people remember from corners. Van Dijk’s long passing a different level to Vidic though, yeah.

 

[giorno]

To be fair Vidic scored 15 goals in 211, Van Dijk has 18 in 185, it’s not that different in terms of goal scoring threat. Vidic scored more than people remember from corners. Van Dijk’s long passing a different level to Vidic though, yeah.

I'm not talking about scoring threat though, i'm talking about overall contribution. Goals are the most important, sure, but even here none of the others really beats him. And then you look at his ability in build up and playmaking and he plays a different sport from the others

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I'm not talking about scoring threat though, i'm talking about overall contribution. Goals are the most important, sure, but even here none of the others really beats him. And then you look at his ability in build up and playmaking and he plays a different sport from the others

You're wildly exaggerating but I guess we'll just disagree and leave it at that.

 

[giorno]

You're wildly exaggerating but I guess we'll just disagree and leave it at that.

I'll close with this: as a player, Van Dijk has more in common with Mascherano than Vidic

 

[Pascal Quiff]

I think out of those only Aguero could be seen as a constant danger
Haaland he faced only recently when he's already old
Kane and Son played in an inconsistent team
The rest aren't world class strikers

Shearer played in an inconsistent team, Fowler, Owen and Torres played in inconsistent team. He may only have faced Haaland for one season but seems to be one of the few defenders around that is able to handle him effectively.

 

[evil_geko]

Saying VVD is anywhere near top 5 defenders ever in PL alone, let alone in the world, is pinnacle of recency bias. How is there even argument over this? It is ridiculous statement.

 

[tenpoless]

We never hear the end of Torres (one good game) vs Vidic.
So it's only fair to bring up this is the same defender people are talking about being the best in the world and nobody can get past him.
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxMczD0r-NhUOww0HKmL7Hy8aMlkkwE0Ax?si=lySu8qLC95756MIj

 

[RobinLFC]

We never hear the end of Torres (one good game) vs Vidic.
So it's only fair to bring up this is the same defender people are talking about being the best in the world and nobody can get past him.
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxMczD0r-NhUOww0HKmL7Hy8aMlkkwE0Ax?si=lySu8qLC95756MIj

Yeah if you see that clip and think that's Van Dijk's fault and not Alisson's I don't know what to tell you Simply shields off Martinelli and Alisson jumps over the ball instead of booting it away.

 

[tenpoless]

Shearer played in an inconsistent team, Fowler, Owen and Torres played in inconsistent team. He may only have faced Haaland for one season but seems to be one of the few defenders around that is able to handle him effectively.

You must have forgotten the other games where teams managed to cut the ball supply to Haaland then. He's a very good goal scorer but if he doesn't get the ball it's like playing with 10 men.

 

[giorno]

We're 40 years removed from man marking being a thing why are you people talking about individual duels against specific players even

 

[Sandikan]

What is the obsession with always having to declare the current is the best or worst ever?

In 5-10 years, no-one will have Van Dijk at the top of the pile, except probably Liverpool fans.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Best ever? Feck right off!!!

 

[Buchan]

If anyone really surprised the perma-offended, ‘LeTallec > Ronaldo’ crowd are, once again, displaying their complete and utter lack of self-awareness and trying to impose on everyone else their exaggerated self-importance?

Van Dijk has had, as we’ve stated here many times, the huge benefit of modern football’s systems when being compared to yesteryear’s greats. Klopp deploys 5-6 players in front of him who run like dogs when out of possession, which interrupts and affects the quality of ball played up to van Dijk’s sole opponent (another advantage he enjoys in comparison to the front-two systems of the 1990s and 2000s especially).

The immediate three in front of him rarely venture too far forward and are excellent at stopping counter-attacks with tactical fouls, which means van Dijk is very rarely left defend 1v1 with space around him. He has a sweeper ‘keeper behind him too, which offers further reassurance and protection. He’s superbly well protected yet this is rarely mentioned when discussing his apparent prowess.

He’s lauded as being great with the ball at his feet but his range of passing is one-dimensional: a 60-yard hoof to Salah or Alexander-Arnold in an acre of space. Daniel Agger was better with the ball at his feet and regularly took the ball into midfield, breaking the lines effectively. Van Dijk never seems to do this, or at least not anymore.

He never engages the dribbler with the ball, instead backing-off at an almost-comical rate. Liverpool have conceded important goals and countless chances to this strange tactic by van Dijk, yet still, it goes unmentioned. Turning his arse to crosses and shots is a trademark of his now but his cheerleaders never criticise him for it. Vidic and Terry would dive at the feet of attackers with their heads to prevent goals, in comparison.

It sounds like sour grapes (and maybe it is) but it seems like opposition fans have to take these extreme stances to balance their extremes the Scousers and their arse-licking media pals take when discussing van Dijk, Klopp and absolutely everything Liverpool related. He’s a very good player, more than justifying his eyebrow-raising transfer fee at the time, and I wish a player of his quality played for us, but, my days, the hyperbole with him is without compare in world football in any time I’ve followed the sport as a fan.

 

[SambaBoy]

Some wild takes in this thread.

He's definitely in the discussion for best CB in PL history. I wouldn't say he was but I also wouldn't consider someone having that opinion as being crazy. You can admit a player is good despite playing for Liverpool.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Van Dijk has had, as we’ve stated here many times, the huge benefit of modern football’s systems when being compared to yesteryear’s greats. Klopp deploys 5-6 players in front of him who run like dogs when out of possession, which interrupts and affects the quality of ball played up to van Dijk’s sole opponent (another advantage he enjoys in comparison to the front-two systems of the 1990s and 2000s especially).

The immediate three in front of him rarely venture too far forward and are excellent at stopping counter-attacks with tactical fouls, which means van Dijk is very rarely left defend 1v1 with space around him. He has a sweeper ‘keeper behind him too, which offers further reassurance and protection. He’s superbly well protected yet this is rarely mentioned when discussing his apparent prowess.

Seems a bit of a push to discredit him in this way, especially when that same Liverpool system has always been worse in his absence. Also, what defenders (or players in general) haven't benefited from the circumstances they were in? A lot of the highest rated defenders were liberos - Beckenbauer, Baresi, Scirea for example had good stoppers beside them - Schwarzenbeck, Costacurta, Gentile etc. Italians in particular were set up very defensively so allowed certain defenders to shine.

The general 1990s/2000s era was far more defensive than it is now, shows in goals per game across leagues. Terry and Carvalho were fine defenders for example but massively benefited from the rock that was early Mourinho's defensive system and one of the all-time great pure defensive midfielders in Makelele. Watch games of the 2000s PL and a lot of 0-0s, 1-0s and 1-1s, very cagey. You don't see the same now for various reasons.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Some wild takes in this thread.

He's definitely in the discussion for best CB in PL history. I wouldn't say he was but I also wouldn't consider someone having that opinion as being crazy. You can admit a player is good despite playing for Liverpool.

I mean, a lot of the players being cited ahead of him are Arsenal and Chelsea players, who have been bitter rivals depending on the era you started supporting the club and where you're from, some even citing Kompany (which is an ever wilder take for me). So I don't think that the issue is particularly the one you're highlighting - maybe more people expecting more consistency across several seasons for those kind of claims?

 

[Fobal]

Rankings are always pretty silly, he is easily amog the best defenders the EPL had, therefore he is already an all timer, not because players in EPL walk in water like many here tend to think, but because he made it in a strong traditional League in a huge team. The positions? are always very debatable even with players that enjoy a better status than Virgil.

PD: BTW, I do not support Liverpool, I dunno why or how it appears as such in my Profile.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Those 2000s CBs played in a far more compact, defensive low block system with much more protection and more accomplished partners.


Van Dijk defends on the half line in a hyper attacking high line system with minimum protection.

What a daft argument that is. Van Dijk has the protection behind him of the best sweeper keeper in the world charging 20-40 yards off his line whenever the high line is exploited. The 2000s GKs barely left their 6 yard box.

 

[Righteous Steps]

I mean, a lot of the players being cited ahead of him are Arsenal and Chelsea players, who have been bitter rivals depending on the era you started supporting the club and where you're from, some even citing Kompany (which is an ever wilder take for me). So I don't think that the issue is particularly the one you're highlighting - maybe more people expecting more consistency across several seasons for those kind of claims?

He has been top 5 CBS in the league since 16/17 I think that’s enough time.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Vidic is criminally underrated and gets more underrated every season. Best defender I’ve ever seen.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

He has been top 5 CBS in the league since 16/17 I think that’s enough time.

Best average overall rating of any CB on WhoScored since 09/10, according to their stats.

 

[RobinLFC]

I mean, a lot of the players being cited ahead of him are Arsenal and Chelsea players, who have been bitter rivals depending on the era you started supporting the club and where you're from, some even citing Kompany (which is an ever wilder take for me). So I don't think that the issue is particularly the one you're highlighting - maybe more people expecting more consistency across several seasons for those kind of claims?

He was already a top CB when he was at Southampton which is what got him a big money move to Liverpool in the first place. That was the 15/16 season, or 16/17 at a push if you want to argue he wasn't amongst the best CBs in the league in his first year at Soton. Performed immediately after arriving at Liverpool and has been in "best CB in A, B C" or whatever discussions since our high-performing 2018-2020 period. Recovered from an ACL injury at age 30 or so, which are notorious for losing speed and mobility especially at a later stage during a career, then is now back to being one of (if not the) best CB in the world after a "down year" which came after a season where his team competed until the last week of the season for a quadruple, and the entire squad downed tools after a draining season.

If that's not a sign of consistency I don't know what is. People are putting Jaap Stam, who had 3 years in the PL, in the same tier as Van Dijk, who has been at the very top for 8 years in the PL by now.

And that doesn't even get into the argument that personal accolades and trophies as well as team trophies elevate a player's status if you talk about "legendary" or "the game's greats". Van Dijk has basically won it all, as opposed to some other big names, and has been the epitome of a big-game player recently, I think he's been MOTM in our last two domestic cup finals and our CL final win. You can take that out of the equation if you purely tackle the discussion from a player's quality perspective, but those things also count for something (not everything, but something).

The consistency argument is really crazy to me, as if Vidic, Ferdinand, Terry never had "down" seasons based on their incredibly high own standards. Those just get looked past once a career is done because people only tend to remember the good stuff imo. Kompany also had very bad spells during his time at City even though people will only remember the titles, the Leicester goal, the header against Utd, ...

Shifting to attackers, a player like Hazard is considered one of the best wingers the PL has ever seen and he had a down year every other season.

 

[redallover87]

He was already a top CB when he was at Southampton which is what got him a big money move to Liverpool in the first place. That was the 15/16 season, or 16/17 at a push if you want to argue he wasn't amongst the best CBs in the league in his first year at Soton. Performed immediately after arriving at Liverpool and has been in "best CB in A, B C" or whatever discussions since our high-performing 2018-2020 period. Recovered from an ACL injury at age 30 or so, which are notorious for losing speed and mobility especially at a later stage during a career, then is now back to being one of (if not the) best CB in the world after a "down year" which came after a season where his team competed until the last week of the season for a quadruple, and the entire squad downed tools after a draining season.

If that's not a sign of consistency I don't know what is. People are putting Jaap Stam, who had 3 years in the PL, in the same tier as Van Dijk, who has been at the very top for 8 years in the PL by now.

And that doesn't even get into the argument that personal accolades and trophies as well as team trophies elevate a player's status if you talk about "legendary" or "the game's greats". Van Dijk has basically won it all, as opposed to some other big names, and has been the epitome of a big-game player recently, I think he's been MOTM in our last two domestic cup finals and our CL final win. You can take that out of the equation if you purely tackle the discussion from a player's quality perspective, but those things also count for something (not everything, but something).

The consistency argument is really crazy to me, as if Vidic, Ferdinand, Terry never had "down" seasons based on their incredibly high own standards. Those just get looked past once a career is done because people only tend to remember the good stuff imo. Kompany also had very bad spells during his time at City even though people will only remember the titles, the Leicester goal, the header against Utd, ...

Shifting to attackers, a player like Hazard is considered one of the best wingers the PL has ever seen and he had a down year every other season.

I agree with all of this,and will add that with most things in life,especially things like football,recency bias in nowhere near as strong as nostalgia for past eras.

 

[giorno]

I mean, a lot of the players being cited ahead of him are Arsenal and Chelsea players, who have been bitter rivals depending on the era you started supporting the club and where you're from, some even citing Kompany (which is an ever wilder take for me). So I don't think that the issue is particularly the one you're highlighting - maybe more people expecting more consistency across several seasons for those kind of claims?

Think it's mostly a combination of him being a Liverpool player, one of the catalyst to them winning CL/PL back to back and turning into a genuine force in English and European football again, anti-recency bias, and the sometimes exasperated media coverage / love in to be honest

In 20 years even this place would consider him in the running for best PL CB ever. Right now, united fans feel almost obligated to push back

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Think it's mostly a combination of him being a Liverpool player, one of the catalyst to them winning CL/PL back to back and turning into a genuine force in English and European football again, anti-recency bias, and the sometimes exasperated media coverage / love in to be honest

In 20 years even this place would consider him in the running for best PL CB ever. Right now, united fans feel almost obligated to push back

this place will never consider him to be the best PL CB ever, nor will most non-Liverpool forums. Any of us who were old enough to remember Rio and Terry are well aware that he's a level below them.

 

[FujiVice]

Fair enough.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[TheReligion]

Fair enough.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Not sure if that quote is true or not but it raises a good point.

 

[arthurka]

Fair enough.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

And thank feck for that Bollock.

 

[LordSpud]

Fair enough.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

He's kind of right. Who has been that kind of striker in this age? Vardy? I guess Haaland is about now.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Fair enough.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Never like quotes like that, always conflate eras. You can make any era look incredible if you do that. Shearer had been a TV pundit for 8 years by the time before Diego Costa came into the league ffs. Vidic never played against either player for example, their whole career was in between those two players. Diego Costa is more relevant to Van Dijk, who actually came up against him.

He's kind of right. Who has been that kind of striker in this age? Vardy? I guess Haaland is about now.

In Van Dijk's time, Harry Kane, Son Heung-Min, Aguero would be the main three. Salah, Mane (didn't have to play against them obviously), Aubameyang, Lukaku, Giroud, Diego Costa some of the others.

 

[Pintu]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Maluco]

Never like quotes like that, always conflate eras. You can make any era look incredible if you do that. Shearer had been a TV pundit for 8 years by the time before Diego Costa came into the league ffs. Vidic never played against either player for example, their whole career was in between those two players. Diego Costa is more relevant to Van Dijk, who actually came up against him.



In Van Dijk's time, Harry Kane, Son Heung-Min, Aguero would be the main three. Salah, Mane (didn't have to play against them obviously), Aubameyang, Lukaku, Giroud, Diego Costa some of the others.

Needing to list two players from his own team just to throw together a list that isn’t embarrassing.

It is so far behind what the likes of Terry and Rio faced, it’s not even funny. There is no argument when it comes to opposition.

We also have people stretching his time at the top to 8 years in the thread. It’s 6 at a top club, one of those injured and another terrible. He has 4 very good years against the likes of Calvert-Lewin and Nick Jackson.

He is not the best in the history of any competition.

 

[Redplane]

Fair enough.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Motherfecker did Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink dirty.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Hope he takes this form to the Euros

 

[FootballHQ]

Hope he takes this form to the Euros

Holland got a deluge of top quality CBs, has 3atb been abandoned with LVG going or does it still get wheeled out on occasions? I know it goes against your football heritage but VDV and Micky Van De Ven been probably the two best CBs in the league. De Vrij still very good and Botman dipped a little at Newcastle but was very good last season.

 

[izec]

Holland got a deluge of top quality CBs, has 3atb been abandoned with LVG going or does it still get wheeled out on occasions? I know it goes against your football heritage but VDV and Micky Van De Ven been probably the two best CBs in the league. De Vrij still very good and Botman dipped a little at Newcastle but was very good last season.

De Ligt also. Ake while bad today, is usually decent too.