Virgil van Dijk | Performances

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
9,913
That's not true. I get it if that is your preference, but at United for example, I'll match Vidic's 08-09 season vs Rio's 07-08 season. Like Pogue said, there's more than one way to be a brilliant defender. None of those ways involve being Ramos, of course.
The Rio style, not Rio specifically.

Rio along with Maldini, Nesta, Baresi, Cannavaro, and a few more all amongst the best who ever played the game.

Who is there on the Vidic side? Him and Terry?
 

Keeps It tidy

Hates Messi
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
17,639
Location
New York
The Rio style, not Rio specifically.

Rio along with Maldini, Nesta, Baresi, Cannavaro, and a few more all amongst the best who ever played the game.

Who is there on the Vidic side? Him and Terry?
Cannavaro fits more into the Vidic side. And there is also Adams, Campbell Ferrera, Kohler, Desailly, Stam, Puyol, Godin

And when you look at some of the best CBs right now Van Dijk, De Ligt, Marquinhos, Koulibaily, Laporte, Umtiti(when healthy) do not neatly fit in either category.
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
9,913
Cannavaro fits more into the Vidic side. And there is also Adams, Campbell Ferrera, Kohler, Desailly, Stam, Puyol, Godin

And when you look at some of the best CBs right now Van Dijk, De Ligt, Marquinhos, Koulibaily, Laporte, Umtiti(when healthy) do not neatly fit in either category.
I disagree on Cannavaro. He could do both sides, but he was so good because of his ability to read the game and anticipate things. Desailly and Stam were also similar.

Kohler you can chalk up to the other side but I don't think any of the others mentioned are on the same level as the players named so far.
 

Keeps It tidy

Hates Messi
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
17,639
Location
New York
I disagree on Cannavaro. He could do both sides, but he was so good because of his ability to read the game and anticipate things. Desailly and Stam were also similar.

Kohler you can chalk up to the other side but I don't think any of the others mentioned are on the same level as the players named so far.
All the guys mentioned on the other lists read the game and anticipated danger as well.
 

Treble

Full Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Messages
10,633
This 'law' explains a lot about VVD's perception:

“While team success requires diversity and balance, a single individual will receive credit for the group’s achievements.”
 

André Dominguez

Full Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
2,786
Location
Lisbon
Supports
Benfica, Académica
Pepe is one of the scummiest players ever to play the game IMO. Right up there with Materazzi.
Have to disagree. Sure, he was a rough defender but people mainly say that about him because he had a meltdown during a match. If you do a youtube compilation about a defensive player rough plays, almost every center back will look "bad" on it.

Materazzi was a violent players and got away with unimaginable things. He kicked Shevchenko balls twice in one match, ffs :lol:
 

Treble

Full Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Messages
10,633
So Messi's contribution to Barcelona over the years have been over-rated then ?
Comparing VVD to Messi is over-rating him. Messi is top 3 of all time, VVD is top 3 in 2019 and not anywhere near to the greatest defenders ever.

Still, in a sense, Messi's contribution is over-rated by some fans. How? By not taking into account the negatives of his low work rate in defence. I don't think another big star in the history of the game has been so lazy in comparision to his team-mates. Xavi used to cover 12-13 km per game whereas Messi runs about 8 km per 90 mins. This is what his fans brush aside and want to talk only about his contributions in attack.

The law I cited above is statistical: it does allow exceptions (but it is still right that most of the time the super stars tend to get disproportional credit for their contributions). In the case of VVD though I think it is more true than false. Liverpool have been excellent in all phases of the game: from the keeper through the defenders to the forwards. Only the midfielders are a bit average in the attacking phase but it is compensated by the contributions of the full backs. Somehow though the talk about VVD has eclipsed the performances of the other top players and any of them was instrumental to the success. That Alisson save against Napoli saved your asses in a game in which VVD deserved to be red carded already in the first half.
 
Last edited:

RobinLFC

Cries when Liverpool doesn't get praised
Joined
May 20, 2014
Messages
10,766
Location
Belgium
Supports
Liverpool
Comparing VVD to Messi is over-rating him. Messi is top 3 of all time, VVD is top 3 in 2019 and not anywhere near to the greatest defenders ever.

Still, in a sense, Messi's contribution is over-rated by some fans. How? By not taking into account the negatives of his low work rate in defence. I don't think another big star in the history of the game has been so lazy in comparision to his team-mates. Xavi used to cover 12-13 km per game whereas Messi runs about 8 km per 90 mins. This is what his fans brush aside and want to talk only about his contributions in attack.

The law I cited above is statistical: it does allow exceptions (but it is still right that most of the time the super stars tend to get disproportional credit for their contributions). In the case of VVD though I think it is more true than false. Liverpool have been excellent in all phases of the game: from the keeper through the defenders to the forwards. Only the midfielders are a bit average in the attacking phase but it is compensated by the contributions of the full backs. Somehow though the talk about VVD has eclipsed the performances of the other top players and any of them was instrumental to the success. That Alisson save against Napoli saved your asses in a game in which VVD deserved to be red carded already in the first half.
Conveniently forgetting that we've been excellent in defence since Van Dijk arrived at Liverpool; he's the cause, not just a piece which was put in an already functioning backline.

Curious why I've never seen this kind of reactions when Chiellini and Bonucci were operating in one of the best backlines of all-time, or even Pique next to the likes of Puyol, Dani Alves and Abidal. Sergio Ramos next to Varane, Marcelo and Carvajal, and probably countless others. Not to mention Van Dijk had three different CB partners this season, two of which are above average but certainly nothing exceptional.
 

Treble

Full Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Messages
10,633
Conveniently forgetting that we've been excellent in defence since Van Dijk arrived at Liverpool; he's the cause, not just a piece which was put in an already functioning backline.

Curious why I've never seen this kind of reactions when Chiellini and Bonucci were operating in one of the best backlines of all-time, or even Pique next to the likes of Puyol, Dani Alves and Abidal. Sergio Ramos next to Varane, Marcelo and Carvajal, and probably countless others. Not to mention Van Dijk had three different CB partners this season, two of which are above average but certainly nothing exceptional.
Stupid exaggeration.

Obviously, my point was quite general and didn't apply only to VVD. The latter though is a good example how the exellent (defensive) work of a whole team is explained with the contributions of a single player. Funnily, City had a better defence than Liverpool in the second half of the season and their xGA was clearly superior to Liverpool's but no one was gushing about their CBs. There the attention was on Sterling and Aguero (ironically, both outscored by Mane and Salah).
 

RobinLFC

Cries when Liverpool doesn't get praised
Joined
May 20, 2014
Messages
10,766
Location
Belgium
Supports
Liverpool
Stupid exaggeration.

Obviously, my point was quite general and didn't apply only to VVD. The latter though is a good example how the exellent (defensive) work of a whole team is explained with the contributions of a single player. Funnily, City had a better defence than Liverpool in the second half of the season and their xGA was clearly superior to Liverpool's but no one is gushing about their CBs. There the attention was on Sterling and Aguero (ironically, both outscored by Mane and Salah).
It's not an exaggeration, the stats back it up if I remember correctly.

Laporte has been getting the praise he deserves last season, he was excellent throughout imo.
 

KirkDuyt

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
11,080
Location
Dutchland
Supports
Feyenoord
Have to disagree. Sure, he was a rough defender but people mainly say that about him because he had a meltdown during a match. If you do a youtube compilation about a defensive player rough plays, almost every center back will look "bad" on it.

Materazzi was a violent players and got away with unimaginable things. He kicked Shevchenko balls twice in one match, ffs :lol:
That's the thing though, Pepe isnt a cnut because he is rough, it's the fact he's both rough and one of the most pathetic divers of his generation. He's the worst of all worlds. He's basically Satan.
 

TGK

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
65
Supports
Liverpool
We'll find out how good (I mean really good) VVD is, when he's not there.

Silvestre, O'Shea, Evans etc Looked good when they played next to Vidic or Rio. They weren't the same when they were partnered.

Can Gomez next to Matip or Lovren, or any combination of that three be the same players without VVD?

I'm not sure. We will see.
 

Rooney in Paris

Gerrard shirt..Anfield? You'll Never Live it Down
Scout
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
29,819
Location
In an elephant sanctuary
It's not an exaggeration, the stats back it up if I remember correctly.

Laporte has been getting the praise he deserves last season, he was excellent throughout imo.
Of course it's an exaggeration Robin, there was a tactical shift especially this season to be a lot less expansive in your play and more pragmatic in your approach to games. You would've been defensively more solid this year with or without VvD with that approach - the fact he had such an excellent season just amplified how good defensively you were.
 

RobinLFC

Cries when Liverpool doesn't get praised
Joined
May 20, 2014
Messages
10,766
Location
Belgium
Supports
Liverpool
Of course it's an exaggeration Robin, there was a tactical shift especially this season to be a lot less expansive in your play and more pragmatic in your approach to games. You would've been defensively more solid this year with or without VvD with that approach - the fact he had such an excellent season just amplified how good defensively you were.
Meh, I think it's too short-sighted to say he's been excellent because he operates in such a good backline. It's rather that our backline is excellent because we have Van Dijk in the middle. It's not like we play super conservative all of a sudden either - we do indeed play less expansive / more pragmatic than last season and having Fabinho in front of him certainly helps, but we're still on the front foot a lot and leave lots of space down the sidelines for opposing wingers to attack. He sniffs out a lot of danger with his positioning and speed.

Maybe saying he's the "cause" is putting it wrong, but his excellent performances last season were the exponent of our defensive play.
 

Rooney in Paris

Gerrard shirt..Anfield? You'll Never Live it Down
Scout
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
29,819
Location
In an elephant sanctuary
Meh, I think it's too short-sighted to say he's been excellent because he operates in such a good backline. It's rather that our backline is excellent because we have Van Dijk in the middle. It's not like we play super conservative all of a sudden either - we do indeed play less expansive / more pragmatic than last season and having Fabinho in front of him certainly helps, but we're still on the front foot a lot and leave lots of space down the sidelines for opposing wingers to attack. He sniffs out a lot of danger with his positioning and speed.

Maybe saying he's the "cause" is putting it wrong, but his excellent performances last season were the exponent of our defensive play.
I didn't talk about the back line at all, I mentioned the system and tactics. And while it's not "super conservative all of a suddent" there was definitely a change in the way you approached games.
Fair enough if you disagree on this but I definitely think VvD was helped by the change Klopp adopted last year and by how more protected he was.
 

redman5

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
4,906
Location
In a world of my own. People know me here.
I didn't talk about the back line at all, I mentioned the system and tactics. And while it's not "super conservative all of a suddent" there was definitely a change in the way you approached games.
Fair enough if you disagree on this but I definitely think VvD was helped by the change Klopp adopted last year and by how more protected he was.
You could use the same argument against the likes of Terry, Ferdinand, & Vidic. I'm willing to bet that neither Chelsea, or United, in their prime, with the aforementioned players in the set-up, scored as many, & conceded as few, as we did last season. & for all this talk of 'conservative' football. In the season just gone we actually scored 5 more goals than we did the previous season when our attacking performances were quite often the talk of the town.
 

giorno

Full Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
14,651
Supports
Real Madrid
So Messi's contribution to Barcelona over the years have been over-rated then ?
I'd say Messi contributed more to barcelona this season than VVD for liverpool, but let me answer your question with another: look at the barcelona teams of 2010, 2011 and 2015. Look at what those players were and did outside of barcelona. Now tell me, how many times have you heard people say barcelona won because of Messi?
 

Maradona10

Duncan Castles
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
5,686
VVD is a great defender but more importantly is one of the most reliable ones in case of injury. I mean the guy has missed 6 days of football over two seasons cause of injury which is an insane record, even his career injury record is great. The reason for pools success is not just quality players but players like him never getting injured at all. He is always there, every game , game after game. United on the other hand have had injury fecked defenders for so many years now. The continuity defensively that vvd has provided is a major assurance for salah ( who himself is injury proof) and co to function at their top level and with confidence .
 

Sayros

Full Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Messages
2,651
I don't know, maybe I didn't see it well but he seemed the least guilty on that pass back, defender or GK should have gotten to it but granted, I had two screens on and was paying more attention to the Dortmund-Barca game.
 

Klopper76

"Did you see Fabinho against Red Star & Cardiff?"
Joined
Dec 15, 2015
Messages
12,028
Supports
Liverpool
What did he do? Was watching the chelsea game instead.
Bit of a lazy touch poked the ball into the path of Llorente and led to Napoli's second. Had a pretty good game up to that point.
 

Dumbstar

Full Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Messages
14,746
Location
Viva Karius!
Supports
Liverpool
The one time he cracks its in a friendly. I'll settle for that. Glad to get it out of of the way. :cool:
 

roonster09

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
20,878
Bit of a lazy touch poked the ball into the path of Llorente and led to Napoli's second. Had a pretty good game up to that point.
He also made one more mistake, missed the header which lead to Napoli's chance.
 

Suedesi

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
17,348
Location
New York City
Liverpool and losing in Naples, what an iconic duo!

Van Dijk was good, except a lazy touch at the end which allowed Llorente to score the second. Game was practically over though.
 

Alexit

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
284
Can someone please post a vid so the rest of us who watched the Barcelona or the Chelsea game have a good laugh?
 

AJ10

Full Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2018
Messages
2,498
Nice pass but lets be honest, He was testing his team mates....clearly they weren't fully aware.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
5,337
Location
Canada
Not his greatest games. I always see a mistake in him whenever he is put under pressure. Maybe time has come.for attackers to stop showing too much respect to him.