Was he really 'hard' or just dirty?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Needham, Apr 13, 2019.

  1. Apr 13, 2019
    #41

    Andersonson New Member

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    Rooney was though as nail in his peak. Never backed down. A bit more moderne than the rest, diving etc, but he was hard as hell
  2. Apr 13, 2019
    #42

    Denis79 Full Member

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    Gattuso
  3. Apr 13, 2019
    #43

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scout

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  4. Apr 13, 2019
    #44

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scout

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    I remember him getting knocked out cold in his own kitchen by Phil Bardsley! Soft as shite!
  5. Apr 13, 2019
    #45

    tenpoless Full Member

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    That's what She said.

    Fellaini is dirty.
    Wilshere is dirty.
    Vidic is hard.
    Stam is hard.
  6. Apr 13, 2019
    #46

    Moriarty Full Member

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    Bremner, Hunter, Giles, and Jack Charlton. All tough as they come but if the opposition came to play, they could do that too. Dave Mackay at Tottenham was a fearsome player but a hell of a good player too. Paddy Crerand could mix it up with the best of them as could Billy Foulkes.
  7. Apr 13, 2019
    #47

    Moriarty Full Member

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    Hard as a wet noodle.
  8. Apr 13, 2019
    #48

    purgethefallen New Member

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  9. Apr 13, 2019
    #49

    Moriarty Full Member

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    Make no mistake, Souness was a hard man. Good player too who could dish it out and take it as circumstances dictated. He and Robbo used to have some right ding-dongs. Whiteside too, as young as he was, never shied away from mixing it up with Liverpool's midfield.
  10. Apr 13, 2019
    #50

    Cloud7 Full Member

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    Yeah it always cracks me up to see people going on about the hard men back in the old days, as if that was in any way beneficial to the game, or even enjoyable to watch.
  11. Apr 13, 2019
    #51

    Moriarty Full Member

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    McQueen too. Both from the same school at Leeds.
  12. Apr 13, 2019
    #52

    SER19 Full Member

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    Have lost count of the amount of times I’ve read about the hypothetical Roy Keane vs Duncan Ferguson fight. It’s mentioned so many times one could be forgiven for thinking it was something that was actually touted or expected to happen between the two. A truly nonsensical arbitrary hypothetical that actually has nothing to do with the discussion. Entertaining the idiocy of it, even in professional fighting, a ‘hard’ person can be beaten to a pulp. So whether or not Duncan Ferguson would be the better street brawler or grappler or fecking kickboxer is absolutely irrelevant.

    On topic, Roy Keane was one of the ‘hardest’ players united have ever had, and was dirty more than a few times. Robson, cantona, vidic, even evra possibly fits the mould. Didn’t shirk a challenge, was not intimidated by a single player or scenario and if needed could be trusted to weigh in.
  13. Apr 13, 2019
    #53

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate Scout

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    You need to eat more fibers.
  14. Apr 13, 2019
    #54

    Moriarty Full Member

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    Honourable mention to some of Chelsea's teams of the 60s and 70s. David Webb, the immortal Ron Harris, Peter Osgood, Ian Hutchinson; they were all capable of playing exquisite football but they didn't take any prisoners when the gloves came off.

    Football then was a far more physical game in terms of contact than today, and not only in Britain. The Italians had a fearsome reputation, as did some of the Spanish sides. Beckenbauer was a tremendous footballer, one of the greatest ever, but he too excelled in the more physical aspects of the game. As for the South Americans, well, the very mention of Estudiantes or Racing Club is enough to send shudders down the spine of oldies in Manchester and Glasgow.
  15. Apr 13, 2019
    #55

    Full bodied red Full Member

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    Tommy Smith was a dickhead.

    I played against him in a Lancashire Senior Cup tie - I was 17, he was Tommy ' eats nail sandwiches for breakfast ' Smith - already a legend.

    Kicked seven shades of shit out of me for 90 minutes and laughed when I asked him why.

    Bye bye.
  16. Apr 13, 2019
    #56

    montpelier Full Member

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    @Moriarty knows his cloggers, :D.

    I always thought Ronnie Whelan was a filthy git, and sly with it.
  17. Apr 13, 2019
    #57

    Moriarty Full Member

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    Indeed, but the funny thing is, most of them were damned good players and if all they could do was kick lumps out of people, they were soon found out.
  18. Apr 13, 2019
    #58

    montpelier Full Member

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    Billy Whitehurst

    Mick Harford

    Robert Hopkins

    Pat van den Hauwe

    Kevin Ratcliffe

    Kevin Moran - had to be, got hurt so often

    Stuart Pearce
  19. Apr 13, 2019
    #59

    Rifer Full Member

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    nsfw
  20. Apr 13, 2019
    #60

    Moriarty Full Member

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    Add Paul McGrath to that list.
  21. Apr 13, 2019
    #61

    Fortitude TV/Monitor Expert Scout

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    Roy Keane went straight at Bryan Robson when he played for Nottingham Forest. I don't know if it was to prove a point or to state he wasn't intimidated by a legendary hard player. Keane at Forest was even worse than he was at United for being the epitome of what this thread is asking for. He more went out for war than to play, and I would say United actually turned that around and made him focus more on playing than trying to prove himself as a hard player.

    --

    As for this thread, Joe Jordan, Norman Whiteside and Duncan Ferguson were the first two to come to mind. I don't think defenders smashing into the back of hapless, blind-sided forwards is particularly hard as it's a cowardly act, which is why I favour midfielders and strikers in terms of the battle as their actions are overwhelmingly forward facing and in the thick of dishing it out and receiving as opposed to defenders, where it's only when faced with a Jordan or Ferguson etc. that they'll get it equally as they mete it out.

    Having said that, didn't that Coventry City player Brian Kilcline have a reputation as the hardest player in Division 1 throughout his career?
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  22. Apr 13, 2019
    #62

    Vidyoyo Self-confessed coffee shop chat-up expert

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    Gattuso another example of a hard player. Totti too in his own way.
  23. Apr 13, 2019
    #63

    Full bodied red Full Member

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    Denis Smith at Stoke was a genuine Hard Man without being dirty.

    And let's not forget our own Bill Foulkes - don't remember him ever missing a match through injury in almost 19 seasons with us.
  24. Apr 13, 2019
    #64

    P-Ro New Member

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    Think about it for a second and ask yourself, what is a hardman? I'd say it is someone who could kick the shite out of most other people. A hardman should be able to fight and be pretty fecking strong. For all of Keane's bluster and aggression he was just a pretty skinny, short man. End of. Whilst he might have 'the balls' to square up to a massive unit on the football field which would result in a little push or half hearted slap, he would get taken apart in a scrap. Not having him as a hardman. He was an exceptional player who also happened to be a lunatic.

    Ps. The dumbest people I know use fancy vocabulary.
  25. Apr 13, 2019
    #65

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    He's probably more handy than most. He came from a boxing family and did a bit himself. His cousin Joey (I think that's his name) boxed for England as a youth. Keane also boxed as a kid and had a few bouts, all of which he won but he chose football instead.
  26. Apr 13, 2019
    #66

    Full bodied red Full Member

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    I went to the FA Cup Final replay at OT between Chelsea and Leeds in the 69 - 70 season.

    Maybe the ' dirtiest ' match I've ever seen - both teams were full of psychopaths, not genuine Hard Men.

    Webb's late winner was as welcome to us Utd fans who were there as OGS's late winner 30 years later.
  27. Apr 13, 2019
    #67

    AndyJ1985 New Member

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    It's difficult to say which footballers are "hard men". Any scrawny prick can square up to someone in the relative safety of a football match when you're surrounded by team mates to protect you.
  28. Apr 13, 2019
    #68

    Moriarty Full Member

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    I remember that game well. Bloods and guts all right.
  29. Apr 14, 2019
    #69

    Needham Full Member

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    John Fashanu and John Fashanu
  30. Apr 14, 2019
    #70

    SER19 Full Member

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    What the hell? You utter caveman

    On topic this thread should be closed then by your standards as it makes absolutely no sense.
  31. Apr 14, 2019
    #71

    Toddler New Member

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    Your a f*cking dirty harry potter fan aint ya
  32. Apr 14, 2019
    #72

    limerickcitykid There once was a kid from Toronto...

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    Roy Keane was a very talented boxer. He'd handle himself fine in a fight. End of. You seem to know little about fighting as well, size doesn't make a fighter.

    Ps. I hope you use fancy vocabulary because your posts in here are as dumb as shit.
  33. Apr 14, 2019
    #73

    Chipper Full Member

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    Bert Trautmann

    You don't play on with a broken neck if you're not hard. I'm not aware of him doing anything dirty although I can't say my knowledge of 1950s goalies is particularly extensive.
  34. Apr 14, 2019
    #74

    SER19 Full Member

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    Nah you’ve got the idea wrong. Would he beat Duncan Ferguson in a bar fight is the real question. Or blanka from street fighter. He’s skinny in pictures too, probably uses ‘fancy’ words. Broken neck or not
  35. Apr 14, 2019
    #75

    Charlie Foley Full Member

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    :lol::lol::lol:
  36. Apr 14, 2019
    #76

    P-Ro New Member

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    I'm not going to say I'm an expert but I do go boxing at my fighting gym 4 times a week. If I went up to one of the monsters who bench 200kg I would get embarrassed, despite how much better I might be at boxing I would barely be able to hurt them.
    Not really. When you said "A truly nonsensical arbitrary hypothetical.." Russell Brand popped into my head. I work in a complex area where I have to explain very technical rules and tricky legislation to people from all walks of life. As soon as you start using language like that without any purpose you just alienate folk. It's just an observation - you are free to tell me to shove it. But calling me a caveman? Speak like that outside these forums and you won't be able to communicate properly with half of the English speaking world.
  37. Apr 14, 2019
    #77

    MadMike Full Member

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    [​IMG]
  38. Apr 14, 2019
    #78

    Robbo's Shoulder Full Member

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    You could add Micky Droy to that list (not the exquisite football but hard as nails nontheless)
  39. Apr 14, 2019
    #79

    montpelier Full Member

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    have we done the Italians?

    Benetti & Gentile

    filthiest team at Old Trafford I saw was probably Valencia in 1982 - all game, all of them
  40. Apr 14, 2019
    #80

    GuybrushThreepwood Full Member

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    Kevin Muscat was a dirty, odious thug, and has a long list of horrible tackles for numerous different clubs and for Australia.

    To me it was karma that he missed the 2004 FA Cup with Millwall through a knee injury, and was dropped by Hiddink for Australia’s 2006 World Cup qualification campaign and then the main tournament itself.