Was Sancho a bad signing?

[Nytram Shakes]

He wasn’t really the signing we needed last summer. He also was bought to play on the right when it’s clear the left (a position at least last summer we where very well stocked) is by far his stronger position.

For me it was simply another big of evidence that the club has no idea how to build a squad which is why I’m still worried going forward until we bring in a DOF with some proven experience rather.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

People are saying that it’s too early etc but Diaz has made an immediate impact at Liverpool, Kulusevski has at Spurs

 

[Skills]

Tbf, the arguement that the left side was stacked doesn't really hold up.

The right side was a lot more competitive. Greenwood was our best forward, and he played on the right and Sancho was initially brought for that role.

Going into next season with Sancho/Greenwood/+1 would have been a lot more promising

 

[Pogue Mahone]

People are saying that it’s too early etc but Diaz has made an immediate impact at Liverpool, Kulusevski has at Spurs

Again, flawed logic. Different players take different amounts of time to integrate in a new team. Especially into a team as dysfunctional as ours.

 

[El-Manos]

People are saying that it’s too early etc but Diaz has made an immediate impact at Liverpool, Kulusevski has at Spurs

Marry poppins would have an impact in that liverpool team at this stage.

 

[VanDeBank]

@Pexbo Right back at you.

Will it really when 40m can get you a Luis Diaz?

At 350k a week it is an awful contract.

This is my point. But some people don't read the OP.

The logic that player x is a bad signing because another club signed a player who plays the same position and is having a better season (as part of an infinitely more functional team) is obviously terrible.

Stick Sancho in that Liverpool team and this thread would never have seen the light of day.

There's a lot of really talented right footed wingers out there for less $$$. I'm sure Sinisterra or Gakpo will sign for a higher profile team and people will moan why we weren't in for them.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

@Pexbo Right back at you.



This is my point. But some people don't read the OP.

There's a lot of really talented right footed wingers out there for less $$$. I'm sure Sinisterra or Gakpo will sign for a higher profile team and people will moan why we weren't in for them.

At least you beat them to it, eh?!

Your logic is still terrible. Other than in some weird fantasy world where no other club signs good players. Or Manchester United signs all of the good players.

 

[2 man midfield]

Nah. Ten Hag is gonna love him.

 

[Born2Lose]

I think it says everything about the flip flopping that in Summer 2020 missing out on him was going to cost us top 4, and now he needs time to bed in.

He obviously has some talent and may yet come good, but he's looking very poor value when Liverpool got both Jota and Diaz for similar money.

The fact he's looked a bit crap overall says more about us than it does about him, he was fantastic as Dortmund, and you can guarantee if Liverpool or City had signed him we'd regretting not signing him ourselves right now.

That's the puzzle isn't it, why didn't they sign him? Why was there no other interest at all even at a reduced price.

 

[Revaulx]

Lots of optimism in here. Which is good to see.

I was extremely sceptical when we were intent on signing him, because he didn’t see to be an Oleball player at all. What we needed back then was a more talented Dan James, and Sancho has never been that.

ETH should be the man to get him going; he clearly needs teammates that move about a good deal more than our lot do at the moment.

As others have said, his coming into such a dysfunctional side has been both a hindrance and a help to him. If he’d performed like he has in a functioning team, which he may have, the knives would undoubtedly have been out; the whole team being crap has largely spared individuals from scrutiny, aside from hapless Harry.

 

[VanDeBank]

At least you beat them to it, eh?!

Now that we have Sancho, I don't want us to sign another right footed winger.

I rate him and I'm happy he's here (and you can check my post history on this), but in hindsight I wouldn't have signed him for that fee on that wage. His next contract will be something completely nuts at 24.

I'm not calling him a flop, I'm saying the signing is really poor value.

Remember when the narrative was he'd plug that massive gap on the right we had and that's why the signing was justified?

 

[Rolaholic]

People are saying that it’s too early etc but Diaz has made an immediate impact at Liverpool, Kulusevski has at Spurs

They both play for sides with 2 of the best managers on the planet, very different situations for both tbf.

 

[Skills]

I don't see how he fits into that Liverpool front line. He's not dynamic enough.

Chelsea probably would've been the best stylistic fit for him.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

He's a good player but physically not suited to the league and he showed up unfit. He still looks unfit to me.

I wide player needs to have pace/power and an engine. He has none.

He has great technique and good decision making so he will be a good player for us. Just not as a winger in the traditional sense - more like Silva from city or as a 10.

I remember asking what great wingers there have been without pace and power and the caf's answers were slim to none (Pires, Silva and a just a few others).

To answer, was he a good signing for this season? NO.

Could he be? Yes.

 

[Rolaholic]

I don't see how he fits into that Liverpool front line. He's not dynamic enough.

Chelsea probably would've been the best stylistic fit for him.

Diogo Jota doesn't have loads of pace to burn either yet he's become a beast there.

You don't need all that when you have, TAA, Robertson, Mane and Salah running at defenders giving them nightmares and opening up acres of space for you. He'd thrive with all the space he'd regularly get there

 

[marktan]

The logic that player x is a bad signing because another club signed a player who plays the same position and is having a better season (as part of an infinitely more functional team) is obviously terrible.

Stick Sancho in that Liverpool team and this thread would never have seen the light of day.

Not necessarily true - Klopp and Pep both generally like their wide players to be fast, and explosive when running with the ball. I think it's telling that neither were interested at £75m, and that they both purchased alternative wide players in that same summer or the Jan after.

For example take Minamino - good on the ball, can shoot and pass, but looks a bit crap every time he players for Liverpool. The team matters yes, but the profile of the player does too.

 

[Skills]

Diego Jota doesn't have loads of pace to burn either yet he's become a beast there.

As a striker/false 9 though no? You think Sancho could play that role for them?

 

[Greck]

He was a bit older (by 2 years?) when he signed for 30 million euros.

Antony from Ajax, who is left footed and has 8 goals in the Eredivsie?

That would be relevant if I said I was expecting him to transmogrify into Antony. I'm referring to the role, the skillful ball carrier who initiates and has license to penetrate. There are similar players in Peps teams, they all come in different forms but tiki taka managers like to have at least one. Gives the attack some thrust.

 

[VanDeBank]

That would be relevant if I said I was expecting him to transmogrify into Antony. I'm referring to the role, the skillful ball carrier who initiates and has license to penetrate. There are similar players in Peps teams, they all come in different forms but tiki taka managers like to have at least one. Gives the attack some thrust.

Ah ok, I thought you were saying you would see him do what Antony does for Ajax on the right. Him being a left footer there is essential for how he operates.

 

[OrcaFat]

I think he was a bit expensive really. Problem is, nobody wants to sell to us at sensible prices. I don’t think the United tax is a myth.

 

[Ralph1386]

No.

 

[RepardReece]

Nah. He's looked pretty good in 2022. Just needs to up his goals/assists tally.

 

[Camilo]

No shortage of options on the left?!

Rashford - shite
Pogba - shite and gone
Bruno - shite on the left
Martial - so shite he's on loan
Lingard - utter pish

Oh aye, soooo many options.

 

[PaulAlwaysScholesAGoal]

At least you beat them to it, eh?!

Your logic is still terrible. Other than in some weird fantasy world where no other club signs good players. Or Manchester United signs all of the good players.

Sometimes you see threads like this and realise that it's not just several of our players that are spoilt, but significant chunks of this fanbase

 

[D. Grayson]

I don't have a lot of confidence in him working out, this is by far Rasford's worst season and they aren't that far apart statistically, as for next season, the guy struggles to beat average paced fullbacks and I honestly don't see being a "systems player" in a "systems team" will make a difference in the PL.

 

[VanDeBank]

No shortage of options on the left?!

Rashford - shite
Pogba - shite and gone
Bruno - shite on the left
Martial - so shite he's on loan
Lingard - utter pish

Oh aye, soooo many options.

Wasn't the case in the summer we bought Sancho...
Some players wanted out/started downing tools as the season progressed.

And if you're using the current options you should add Elanga.

 

[Lecland07]

People are saying that it’s too early etc but Diaz has made an immediate impact at Liverpool, Kulusevski has at Spurs

A few things you have to take into account:

Tottenham have Son and Kane are two of the best players in their positions. Not only that, they play together exceptionally well. It is easier to fit into that third slot when the other two are nailed down. The midfield and defence also know how they fit into the team, but they are just not very good. Our team does not have that.

Liverpool have it even better as it is their entire team along with top quality players all over the pitch. Diaz had a nice spot to slot into, which made transition far easier.

Manchester United? Our players do not work well together. And our season was pretty much written off for over half of it.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Chase a player for 2 years, stupid money involved, Messi and Ronaldo like numbers too. Then he serves up this.

I expected more. Lots more. He had a good 3 months i guess.

I am going to give him a clean slate in August though. Ole and all football operations have been shit since 2009.

 

[PoTMS]

Underwhelming to say the least but hard to say really when you think he's been playing with that shower of shite for the entire season under two God awful managers.

 

[Sayros]

Tbf, the arguement that the left side was stacked doesn't really hold up.

The right side was a lot more competitive. Greenwood was our best forward, and he played on the right and Sancho was initially brought for that role.

Going into next season with Sancho/Greenwood/+1 would have been a lot more promising

That's just not true, IIRC pretty much everybody assumed Sancho was coming for the RW in his transfer thread and Greenwood was more to get him playing and he started finding his feet on the wing, but it's an Olympic stretch to say at that time or even now that the right side was a lot more competitive. Now it's not to say the left side was 'stacked' as if there were multiple players making a big impact, nothing is stacked right now anywhere but I'm sure the Sancho threads prior to him joining the team were mostly under the assumption he'd play on the right wing because that was what was most needed.

 

[calodo2003]

Nope.

 

[Teja]

I will admit that my personal narrative changed from:

(a) Sancho can play fine on the RW, he did very well with Hakimi
(b) Oh crap, he's maybe not very good, he got benched by Elanga
(c) Nevermind our attackers are all shit and he's showing quality on the left.

I think the club believed in (a) given he started on the right initially. In theory, two creators (Bruno, Sancho) with couple of players running in behind (Rashford, Ronaldo) is a decent enough attacking balance. Unfortunately, Rashford's form went down the drain, we had no idea how to play Ronaldo, confidence issues given the terrible form under Ole, not having an attacking RB like Hakimi all contributed to his poor start.

The interesting question going forward is what sort of attacker do we want on the right given what Sancho showed this season?

A left footed Rashford clone? A creator of the Juan Mata mold? Runners like Mahrez, Sane, Coman etc? I think we need ball carriers the most.

 

[Skills]

That's just not true, IIRC pretty much everybody assumed Sancho was coming for the RW in his transfer thread and Greenwood was more to get him playing and he started finding his feet on the wing, but it's an Olympic stretch to say at that time or even now that the right side was a lot more competitive. Now it's not to say the left side was 'stacked' as if there were multiple players making a big impact, nothing is stacked right now anywhere but I'm sure the Sancho threads prior to him joining the team were mostly under the assumption he'd play on the right wing because that was what was most needed.

At the start of the season, it was Greenwood he was struggling to displace in the starting XI.

The highlighted bit is true as well, but i do remember making the thread below :

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-obsession-with-dropping-mason-greenwood-to-the-bench.458110/

Now, if Greenwood hadn't have done what he did & Sancho's best position being on the left might have turned out to be a happy accident. If we were going into next season with Sancho/Ronaldo/Greenwood as our front line next season i think i'd be relatively content. Alas, we all know what has happened with Greenwood.

 

[Remember the geese]

I actually think some people don't realise how good he is. He is a brilliant player. Drop him into City's side and he'd fit like a glove. The key to getting the best out of him is to have top class coaches who can create a cohesive system. Freestyle football and isolated, unsustainable moments of quality are not the way forward. I'm hopeful that ten Hag will implement what I'm looking for.

 

[Betson]

I think he has been underwhelming so far but a very difficult season for a new player to make an impact given the turmoil the club is in.

Too early yo make any real judgment , hopefully we will see a big improvement next season.

 

[Someone]

No, he's showing great potentials, but he joined us at the worst possible time. Unlucky for him but I thin he'll shine under ETH.

 

[Sayros]

At the start of the season, it was Greenwood he was struggling to displace in the starting XI.

The highlighted bit is true as well, but i do remember making the thread below :

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-obsession-with-dropping-mason-greenwood-to-the-bench.458110/

Now, if Greenwood hadn't have done what he did & Sancho's best position being on the left might have turned out to be a happy accident. If we were going into next season with Sancho/Ronaldo/Greenwood as our front line next season i think i'd be relatively content. Alas, we all know what has happened with Greenwood.

Yeah, the big surprise was Greenwood's development on the wing and the fact that Rashford simply wasn't getting back to his form where he was clearly better from the left wing but that guy has been MIA for some time now. One thing is for sure, Sancho is definitely better from the left wing, it would be his best position and the stats at Dortmund backed that, but the drop off to the right wing wasn't big for Dortmund (or even in the middle). But if this is a complete rebuild project, then you'd want Sancho to be on that left wing anyways, as I don't think Rashford will be able to get back to his best, where that would be the only reason where moving Sancho to the RW would make some sense since Rashford is close to hopeless there, and Sancho is so skilled, he can make an impact from either wing unlike pretty much everybody else on the team, bar Mason maybe.

 

[charlenefan]

Is this a bad thread?

Yes

 

[VanDeBank]

I actually think some people don't realise how good he is. He is a brilliant player. Drop him into City's side and he'd fit like a glove. The key to getting the best out of him is to have top class coaches who can create a cohesive system. Freestyle football and isolated, unsustainable moments of quality are not the way forward. I'm hopeful that ten Hag will implement what I'm looking for.

Agree he'd be a good fit, but he'd probably be a bit part rotational player similar to Grealish (ok that's exaggerating, but point stands). Worth 80 million? I don't think City fans think Grealish was a good signing, but they're not calling him a flop either. He's a good player they massively overspent on.

 

[James Peril]

Too early to tell, but we did think we were signing a top-class player - based on stats in Germany, we were all fooled. Now it’s quite obvious to me he will never be a great player, he just doesn’t work hard enough and isn’t quick enough for that - but he could be a very good player hopefully. This season he has been absolutely dreadful, uninterested and limited, let’s hope that changes. What disappoints me the most is that he is so incredibly slow, and he seems to only have a plan A, if the game doesn’t suit him he is basically out of it.

Sure we overpaid and it’s easy to say in retrospect that Diaz was more sensible, but we just don’t have the scouts or guts.