Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

[wr8_utd]

We'd probably bid 5 million on each of the worlds top 8 strikers.

And increase that bid to 8m two weeks later and then withdraw

 

[Garethw]

If he stays I hope he spends most of his time n the bench - don't want him playing in place of Kagawa and Hernandez.

When on form he's a far better player than both of them. If he stays and he's in form then he should play, no questions asked.

 

[Brophs]

I was listening to Newstalk earlier and Pat Nevin was the guest to talk about Chelsea. I didn't hear it in detail as I had someone talking shite to me in the car, but basically he said there are still strong rumours that Mata isn't Mourinho's sort of player (slows the play down rather than the sort of quick movement of Oscar and Hazard, apparently) and they might be willing to sacrifice him to get Rooney.

Obviously he could just be going on the original rumours, but he did hint that it was more substantial than that.

 

[Sixpence]

Neville thinks Arsenal and Chelsea will both bid for him this week.

 

[Adebesi]

I was listening to Newstalk earlier and Pat Nevin was the guest to talk about Chelsea. I didn't hear it in detail as I had someone talking shite to me in the car, but basically he said there are still strong rumours that Mata isn't Mourinho's sort of player (slows the play down rather than the sort of quick movement of Oscar and Hazard, apparently) and they might be willing to sacrifice him to get Rooney.

Obviously he could just be going on the original rumours, but he did hint that it was more substantial than that.

That would seem to be a very satisfactory outcome if it happened.

 

[SteveJ]

Moyes has always maintained that Wayne isn't for sale...but has never mentioned a player-exchange.
*Insert "make of that what you will" cliche here*

 

[Tibs]

When on form he's a far better player than both of them. If he stays and he's in form then he should play, no questions asked.

I'd rather players that want to be here get game time, not someone who can't handle that he's a second choice striker for us, so wants a move to our rivals. feck him

 

[Rowem]

I was listening to Newstalk earlier and Pat Nevin was the guest to talk about Chelsea. I didn't hear it in detail as I had someone talking shite to me in the car, but basically he said there are still strong rumours that Mata isn't Mourinho's sort of player (slows the play down rather than the sort of quick movement of Oscar and Hazard, apparently) and they might be willing to sacrifice him to get Rooney.

Obviously he could just be going on the original rumours, but he did hint that it was more substantial than that.

I'd hate to see Rooney at Chelsea but this swap would be acceptable. Especially as Chelsea fans would probably implode after they've been strutting around on here with their cocks dangling out the last few weeks.

 

[Tibs]

Moyes has always maintained that Wayne isn't for sale...but has never mentioned a player-exchange.
*Insert "make of that what you will" cliche here*

Rooney + 25m for Ronaldo?

 

[Adebesi]

The thing is, player exchanges rarely happen.

 

[ALX8725]

When on form he's a far better player than both of them. If he stays and he's in form then he should play, no questions asked.

he's hardly ever in form though, so I hope to see a lot of them

 

[Brophs]

The thing is, player exchanges rarely happen.

Not true. Glen Johnson brought back those taps he nicked and got a nice curtain rail and a rubber-handled vice grips.

 

[Adebesi]

I'd rather swap him for Wilshere, can someone please run that past Wenger?

 

[Sixpence]

I'd rather swap him for Wilshere, can someone please run that past Wenger?

I'd swap him for Wilshere and us paying them money too.

 

[Genius Me!]

I'd rather swap him for Wilshere, can someone please run that past Wenger?

I'd swap him for Wilshere and us paying them money too.

I bet they'd be laughing at you both over at arsenal mania.

 

[Sixpence]

I don't think Arsenal fans will be laughing at anything for a while. Not until their next match anyway.

 

[Gazza]

Sam Wallace in the Independent

Chelsea must come to terms with the fact that Manchester United won’t let Wayne Rooney go
Champions would rather allow him to become a free agent in two years – and can afford to do just that

It was with his old bravado that Jose Mourinho pledged his club would “try to the last day” when he was asked about the pursuit of Wayne Rooney on Sunday but there is a reality dawning at Chelsea that what they hoped would be one of the most exciting signings in even their recent history is not going to happen – in this transfer window at least.

All the signs given to Chelsea – and there are no secrets about how this works – is that if it was down to the player he would be there already. The problem for Rooney is that United’s hierarchy, from the Glazers to executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward and manager David Moyes, have no intention of selling Rooney.

In this instance, the usual conventions of contract management do not apply. United are well aware that Rooney is entering the last two years of his contract, a period in which the power swings towards the player as he approaches the end of his deal and free agent status. But for United, the manager, the board and the owners, this is about a lot more than whether Rooney might leave on a free or not two years down the road.

In fact, with the new £50m-a-year Chevrolet deal to begin next season, as well as a new Nike kit deal which could conceivably double in value from the existing contract, for once the Premier League’s biggest corporate behemoth feel that they do not need to consider the balance sheet when it comes to Rooney. United could afford to take the hit of losing Rooney for nothing. What the club believe they cannot afford is the blow in prestige of selling to Chelsea – especially in this period of transition from Sir Alex Ferguson to Moyes.

If it turns out that the player stays for two more seasons and refuses to sign a new deal along the way, the mood at United is that they would rather they let him go for nothing than sell him to Chelsea now. They cite the example of the sale of Fernando Torres in 2011 as the moment that Liverpool fatally diminished their own standing in the transfer market relative to Chelsea, regardless of the world record fee.

Where does this leave Chelsea? They are already considering a short-term fix to their striker issue. They will, in all likelihood, take a striker on a free transfer before the end of the window to address what they see as the imbalance among their attacking options. Samuel Eto’o has been considered and, while not a free agent, he could be an option, given the fire sale at Anzhi Makhachkala.

This is not an easy problem to resolve, especially given that so much has been resting on the success of the Rooney deal. “In this moment every striker has a club,” Mourinho said on Sunday. “Every striker belongs to somebody.”

The issue at Chelsea is that one of the many reasons Mourinho had targeted Rooney was that he fitted the profile of a striker who can operate when, as Mourinho described it last month, “opponents are compact”. In Torres they have a striker who plays on the shoulder of the last defender and, in Mourinho’s words this summer, “when you have to play him in small spaces I think he will have a little bit more difficulty”.

The plan was always that either Torres or Demba Ba would be sold in the event of a deal for Rooney being successful, leaving Chelsea with a manageable three strikers, including Romelu Lukaku, in a formation that only accommodates one at a time.

 

[Dobba]

I'd swap him for Wilshere and us paying them money too.

Isn't he partly owned by BUPA?

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

feck it, lets keep him. It's about time players were made to honour their contracts.

 

[sammsky1]

Looks like SAF, Moyes and Woodward were being truthful when they said Rooney is not for sale. Gary Neville, whom I imagine is the closest person outside of the clubs top hierarchy who knows what is going on says there is simply no way we would sell to to Chelsea in the current climate.

In this scenario, it does not matter what Rooney wants. He can be as disruptive as he likes, sooner or later, he will have to sort his head out and start playing to the top of his ability, or get fatter in our reserves and waste away.

A real shame is has come to this. His skills, heroics and commitment have been the cornerstone of our successes for the past 7 or so years. He should have left the club (trensfred or retired) as a legend. He is making a real pigs ear of everything he has worked so hard to achieve.

He's abit of an idiot. But he is still a remarkable and very classy football player, and that is his main problem right now, there is no way we would sell him to our main rival.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

When on form he's a far better player than both of them.

Can the high water mark in terms of form even be predicted any longer?

Is the assumption then that he'll simply revert to the player of a few years past and if so why will he suddenly become that less self obsessed player?

If he stays and he's in form then he should play, no questions asked.

If United are keeping Rooney under sufferance or with the aim of selling him to a foreign club next summer, giving him preferment over players who will form a key part in any long term project seems counterproductive.

Do we risk losing these forwards if they are not given hope for better and is that worth it for Rooney's sake?

If Wayne is willing to be rotated between the left wing and the No 10 role as the situation warrants then perhaps it can be made to work but otherwise...

 

[surf]

World record fee for Torres? Some creative writing there.

 

[SteveJ]

They cite the example of the sale of Fernando Torres in 2011 as the moment that Liverpool fatally diminished their own standing in the transfer market relative to Chelsea, regardless of the world record fee.

Torres didn't go for a "world record fee", did he?

 

[Gazza]

Torres was a World Record Fee... erm, for transfers between British clubs

 

[SteveJ]

Ah, so it's just like the World Series in baseball then?

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Sam Wallace in the Independent

They cite the example of the sale of Fernando Torres in 2011 as the moment that Liverpool fatally diminished their own standing in the transfer market relative to Chelsea, regardless of the world record fee.

That example doesn't stand up to much scrutiny at all, i do hope this "source" is employed in a non-footballing capacity [assuming they indeed work at the club].

I can understand why there would be some concern in selling to Chelsea at this time, however this talk of keeping him until he is a free agent is likely just that IMO.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Torres was a World Record Fee... erm, for transfers between British clubs

Wikipedia must be a blocked website over at Independent HQ.

 

[Antisocial]

Sam Wallace in the Independent

Love the sound of the first six paragraphs there - it seems the board have the same view as I do about not dealing with Chelsea. Roman and his fecking money have done enough damage.

At the risk of exciting Glaston, we can take inspiration from Daniel Levy with Modric that Roman doesn't always have to get what he wants.

 

[LR7]

Rooney's petulance takes him in a damaging direction


Satisfaction and relief were the overriding emotions for those connected with Manchester United returning from a rain-sodden trip to Swansea. Well, apart perhaps from one individual.

Substitute Wayne Rooney supplied two assists, received the fulsome praise of manager David Moyes and was even given a chorus of "Rooney, Rooney" by United's travelling support. There had been a bashful wave from the striker to fans when his first warm-up run headed in their direction. Yet as his teammates left the field and returned the applause of the away contingent, Rooney failed to acknowledge those who had journeyed deep into South Wales to support him.

The refusenik was a hot topic of conversation among those supporters who stayed on in Swansea for the Saturday night. "I'm finished with Rooney now, said Paul, 36, a cab driver from Bolton. "I've spent all week defending him and he does that."

Paul is more than entitled to his opinion. He hasn't missed a Manchester United game -- home or away -- since September 1992, when United lost on penalties away to Torpedo Moscow, an incredible run of devotion that includes trips to Saudi Arabia, Nigeria and over 50 other countries.

Wayne Rooney's doing himself no favors by snubbing the die-hard fans whose support he used to be able to rely upon.

Maybe this is the latest Rooney exit strategy. If he can enrage the diehard fans, then a fresh avenue for departure can be opened. Players still recognise what the upshot of their actions can be among match-going supporters. "You can talk about the 659 million fans Manchester United claim worldwide but it's convincing the 100,000 hardcore who live around Old Trafford that matters," said Gary Neville in his Mail On Sunday column this week.

For someone who denies that he put in a transfer request, Rooney sure acts like a player who wants to be elsewhere. There was the risible cat-in-hell's-chance demand for Sir Alex Ferguson to publicly apologise. Then came the injuries that ended his summer tour and prevented him playing in the Community Shield.

There were briefings that Rooney's decision might rest on the reception he expected to receive at Rio Ferdinand's testimonial, a game he eventually never took part in. And then there was the glowing tribute paid to Roy Hodgson on Facebook, its subtext being widely interpreted as a dig at the management of Manchester United.

Central to Wayne's whinges is the continuing influence of Sir Alex Ferguson, whose relationship with the player and agent Paul Stretford is irreparable. Ferguson might not have been publicly seen near United since May, but he and Moyes are close. The new man admitted last week that he has been a regular visitor to Ferguson's Wilmslow mansion and that regular text messages are exchanged between the two. The friendship even extends to swapping horse racing tips. Though the Rooney problem is viewed as an unwanted remnant of Ferguson's final days, Moyes refuses to be seen to be treating it like that.

"I never fell out with Wayne," insisted Moyes last week. The new manager kept up his compliments to Rooney in Swansea, while also making a pointed reference to the importance of fans.

"The supporters recognise good players at Manchester United and I think they recognised that when Wayne came on," said Moyes on Saturday. "He's still lacking match fitness, but another 30 minutes today will bring him on. I thought when he went on he was incredibly committed."
"Committed" was extending matters a little beyond credibility. Rooney looked nowhere near his pestilent best, though his undeniable ability was reflected in the key role he played in the goals that took United beyond Swansea's reach. One thing Rooney cannot resist, and cannot refuse, is playing football.

Yet it's clear that Moyes and United are not going to make it easy for Rooney to leave. Their public charm offensive leaves Rooney in the position of having to be the bad guy; as such, the fragility of his ego may eventually bring him back into the tent. From United's point of view, there is little footballing sense in selling him to Chelsea. Had Chelsea had a striker worthy of the name on Sunday, then Hull City Tigers would have lost by a cricket score.
Depending on which Sunday newspaper you read, Rooney is either finally going to put in that transfer request, has resigned himself to another year at United or will watch Chelsea break the bank for him. "Not for sale" is the likely United response.

The footage of Rooney's lack of celebration for the two goals he supplied has been much discussed. In mitigation, for Welbeck's second goal, Rooney had been clattered by Jose Canas and was lying prostrate. Previously, even though he was close to Van Persie when United's third was struck, he played no part in team-mates' back-slapping by the sidelines. In so doing, he didn't look like someone who felt a full part of his current club.

Perhaps Rooney, a shy character, feels sheepish after the summer has made clear his intentions. He, like Luis Suarez or perhaps even Gareth Bale, might be in the process of learning that sometimes in football, just like life, you can't always get what you want.
And when that realisation has dawned, Rooney would be best advised to properly acknowledge the fans who devotedly follow the club he still plays for.

Nice summary from ESPN.

 

[ghaliboy]

I thought someone on here said he came back out after the game?

 

[sglowrider]

Nice summary from ESPN.

I am not sure if the last contract Rooney/Stretford signed with Gill wasn't an intentional poison pill. They know he is trapped now -- with the world cup coming up he is now in a position where options are limited.

 

[LR7]

I thought someone on here said he came back out after the game?

I was there. He didn't.

I am not sure if the last contract Rooney/Stretford signed with Gill wasn't an intentional poison pill. They know he is trapped now -- with the world cup coming up he is now in a position where options are limited.

Interesting theory. They would have had to have predicted something like this happening though. I'm not sure that's the case. Plus we'll probably end up selling him for much less next season (if we keep him here this season).

 

[ghaliboy]

I was there. He didn't.

Fair enough.

I thought the fans were brilliant with him. Only player not to have applauded the fans too. He's trying his hardest to be a cnut. Will be interesting to see the reception he gets next week.

Ah, that's what I read and got it wrong.

 

[Tibs]

Really hope Arsene can find it within himself to bid £40m+£1 for Rooney.

We'll sell to them

 

[Gazza]

Ah, so it's just like the World Series in baseball then?

Perfect analogy that!

 

[LR7]

I've been very defensive of Rooney in this thread, maybe too much so at times, but his behaviour on Saturday, which some people are trying to dismiss as insignificant, was really poor imo.

Yes, he was professional enough and came on and contributed (and I have no doubt that if he stays here this season that he will continue to do the same), but he gave the impression that playing in a United shirt was some sort of awful punishment, and he did everything in his power to make everyone aware that he didn't want to be there.

Carrick and Jones came out with comments about Rooney yesterday saying something along the lines of the players all sticking together but Rooney is deliberately isolating himself and isn't showing that same team spirit or togetherness, and I don't think that should be glossed over.

Fergie often said that you learn a lot about a team from the way they celebrate their goals and Rooney was clearly using that time to make his point - he doesn't want to be here. Nobody knows what the feeling about all of this in the dressing room was, there were unconfirmed murmurings in the press a few weeks ago that senior players like Rio and Giggs were less than happy with his behaviour - but the last thing that we need in this period of transition at the club is somebody spoiling the atmosphere or creating divisions by isolating themselves.

The fans were behind Rooney on Saturday, which I'm guessing took him by surprise, and he did acknowledge it with a little wave to the crowd who chanted his name when he came towards the away end whilst warming up, but people in the stands aren't happy and murmurings of dissent could be heard, naturally, on a smaller scale.

Had we managed to get certain targets earlier in the window, the situation might be quite different, but for now it looks like he will stay. He can't use the 'but the fans are against me' argument now to force his way out the club, so it'll be interesting to see how this one plays out. Personally I'd rather he was sold (just not to Chelsea - but Arsenal maybe?), if we could bring someone like Ozil in, but the closer we get to the end of the window the more unlikely these deals look like happening (if they ever looked likely?).

 

[The Taurean]

I think away fans were great in applauding him even after such a tense summer regarding him. It was a real shame that he didn't applaud the fans at the end of the match.
But I feel we should hold-off our personal feelings against him as long as he in our shirt and as long as he doesn't compromise on the field. Lets roll on till end of transfer and take it from there.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I agree with most of what you say LR7, and I don't really want to 'gloss over' his behaviour, but I think he's just a bit of a moron and a big baby. It's an easy way out for him, but I think it's as simple as that. I don't think he's intelligent enough to be calculating anything, I just think that Stretford has probably been feeding him a line all summer with 'Mourinho's back, Chelsea is on the up, you can be their top man and play as their first choice 9, they'll be great in Europe' etc., I honestly have no doubt about it, and he's realizing it's just not going to happen. So he's being a baby about it and showing his discontent. It'll pass, and I'm not saying people should forget it and move on, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to be quite frank, I really don't give a shit.

The fact is, football is a profession for all these people, and we as fans make too big a deal about them 'having to love the jersey' and 'being happy about being here'. If he's unhappy but has a great season to be fair, I don't care. Sincere players, the ones that actually care about the club, can be counted on the fingers of one hand. The ones that truly breathe Man Utd and that can't imagine playing anywhere else, I can understand how they'd endear themselves to the fans more easily, but deep down, it doesn't really matter either way. A professional can be committed to the cause and give 100% without really caring about the club, or not more so than another club he'd play for in any case, and still deserve respect. Take RvP for example, he's been exceptional since arriving, seems to love working here, and gives glowing interviews week in week out about everything that's exceptional for the club. That's lovely, and it's made him a fan favourite (well, that and his goals, let's not kid ourselves!), but I find it hard to believe it's completely sincere. Or, more exactly, I believe he's glad to be here and enjoying being employed at this club, but I don't really doubt that had circumstances been different and had he gone somewhere else, he'd be saying the same things (to a certain extent) somewhere else. But it's not criticism of RvP mind, I'm fine with that, he's a happy employee enjoying working here, that's great!

Wayne's biggest problem is that he just lacks subtetly. I think he's a profoundly sincere person who is being manipulated by Stretford in a pretty obvious way but is lacking the conniving spirit that would help him get away with a lot. We often say about the player that he plays with his heart on his sleeve and gives everything, and I think he's wearing his behaviour and emotions in the same way. Yes, I think he's disappointed to be here, I think he wanted to leave, but I also think that if he does stay, he'll carry on with this baby behaviour and do what most babies do when they're having a strop: move on pretty quickly and not care. I could be wrong, he could spend a whole season being a miserable cnut, but we've all been following the guy since his teen years, and I just don't believe it will happen like that. I think ultimately, he'll be fine, but I think a lot of the fans won't forgive him this time around. Which is perfectly understanble.

But I do feel that, for the sake of his career, the best thing Wayne could do would be to get rid of Stretford. Which, of course, won't happen.

 

[LR7]

I also agree with most of your post RiP.

I'm not bitter towards him for not being in love with the club. I'm also not a part of the 'he's shit, get rid' crew who I've actually spent ages arguing against in here. My overriding concern is the Club and how we get on this season. A part of me wonders whether Rooney's behaviour could end up beng fractious and create a less than ideal atmosphere. Last season I remember Anders Lindegaard saying how the atmosphere and spirit in the dressing room was the best it's been since he's been here - meanwhile over at City Balotelli and Mancini were in fisticuffs (slight exaggeration) and Benitez's arrival had created a toxic environment at Stamford Bridge. I'm not necessarily saying that Rooney is going to be petulant, just that the negativity he so clearly wanted to make known to the public on Saturday, isn't desirable here. Suppose RvP and Welbeck strike up a good partnership and Moyes decides to give them a run of games together with Welbeck in behind RvP - will Rooney have another wobble and try to force a move in the January window destabilising us? Judging from his conduct this summer it's not unfathomable.

I agree with you about RvP. He certainly knows the right things to say. But he wants to be here and he's enjoying playing here and winning things with us. In Gary Neville's column this week he wrote:

In those first programme notes against QPR, Sir Alex wrote: 'I'm only interested in players who want to play for Manchester United and like me are bad losers.' That's as true today as it was 26 years ago. It's everyone's responsibility at Manchester United to get David Moyes over the line to that first title, to transform the view from the glass being half empty to being half full.

Right now Rooney doesn't want to be here, and that isn't a good thing.

I sang his name on Saturday like the rest of the fans at the Liberty (most of them anyway), and if Rooney stays I will be fully behind him. Mine and most fans personal feelings towards him are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. I think you're right about Stretford after having read the Collymore and Andy Cole articles that someone posted about him earlier in the thread. One thing is for sure Rooney is clearly ill advised and a little bit dim with it. Sport Witness have been saying all summer how the PR leaking from the Rooney camp has done nothing in his favour and only makes him look bad in all of this.

- As an aside I thought Neville saying on MNF that he reckons Mourinho will bid for Rooney this week to upset things at United and to unsettle the club really undermined Mourinho. Won't really have the desired effect now that Gary has told everyone that he's likely to do it

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Wayne's biggest problem is that he just lacks subtetly. I think he's a profoundly sincere person who is being manipulated by Stretford in a pretty obvious way but is lacking the conniving spirit that would help him get away with a lot. We often say about the player that he plays with his heart on his sleeve and gives everything, and I think he's wearing his behaviour and emotions in the same way. Yes, I think he's disappointed to be here, I think he wanted to leave, but I also think that if he does stay, he'll carry on with this baby behaviour and do what most babies do when they're having a strop: move on pretty quickly and not care. I could be wrong, he could spend a whole season being a miserable cnut, but we've all been following the guy since his teen years, and I just don't believe it will happen like that. I think ultimately, he'll be fine, but I think a lot of the fans won't forgive him this time around. Which is perfectly understanble.
.

sin·cere

/sinˈsi(ə)r/

Adjective

1. Free from pretense or deceit; proceeding from genuine feelings.
2. (of a person) Saying what they genuinely feel or believe; not dishonest or hypocritical.

Synonyms
candid - genuine - honest - frank - straightforward