We are a counter attacking team and we are going to have to accept it

[kthanksbye]

I'll accept it when we start counter attacking with any competence.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

We are just a bad team you mean and should play as the underdog? I do agree but if we want to ever be back on top then we have to go through some pain to get there. Can’t keep doing the most convenient style of play for today and not worry about tomorrow.

 

[Withnail]

You will never get Maguire to adopt a high line no matter what coach you bring in.
You will never get our full backs to be able to play anything like Cancelo, Rudigar, Trent, Robertson etc
You will never get De Gea to be a sweeper keeper
You will never get any of our midfield to do live in a high press, passing team and that includes Bruno
You will never get Rashford to fit that system
Who's left?

Yeah it would be nice to play like City and Liverpool but we just cant. Not wont. Not oh it just needs more coaching. Cant. So what are we proposing. Getting rid of them all? Does anyone actually think thats possible? Maybe in 5/6 seasons if we are lucky.

How do mid-table clubs do it? They can buy cheap players and easily sell players and play at a lower level. There is a million miles between Brighton and CIty for example. Its not the same at all.

"We just can't... we just won't... it's impossible"

That's an extremely negative and defeatist attitude. Nobody was ever successful by refusing to do the right things because they thought it would be too hard.

The right manager can change things quite quickly. If the players aren't good enough or won't put in a shift they'll be moved on. I have no issue with that. If harry can't play a high line and that's what we want to do then he doesn't play very much. We need new FBs long term anyway so that's no a surprise but we can cope with what we have for a season or two. We urgently need a few bodies in midfield, Rashford is a huge concern and we know De Gea can't pass and won't come off his line to save his life. These are all immediate problems to be sorted, regardless of the manager. However, you'll probably find most can adapt to whatever the manager wants them to do.

Counter attacks are opportunities to be exploited as they arise but relying on them as the main game plan doesn't really work. Surely, we have enough evidence of that by now?

Simeone isn't the answer and I doubt he'd last very long if given the job.

 

[RazorOz]

This. Adding Sancho and Ronaldo meant a slower style of play had to be adopted. Bruno and Rashford are only of any use to us in a counterattack so its another case of poor squad construction.

Sancho literally come from a team and was a key player in a team that played a quick style of play, so it's definitely not him, it's the players around him are nowhere near as fluid as what he come from.

 

[Son]

Disagree. There has been a hard reset and some fans can’t take that fact. End of the day a sudden change could turn out to be a good thing long term.

Arsenal are slowly pushing on and getting better with a similar idea. They didn't believe in Arteta at first and wanted him sacked.

Ten Haag I see as a forward thinking appointment regardless and Rangnick too. Didn’t see Liverpool doing that well in Klopp’s first season either. Things needed to change and it’s rough in the early stages.

Even Barcelona in 08 weren’t that good in the first half of the year. When we beat them in the semi final due to their lack of chances but they dominated possession almost like nothing I had seen before back then.

That was an omen of things to come the next year… Bayern in the 00’s Hollywood FC were very similar to us now also but in a weaker league. Didn’t win much for a few years and they hard reset to become a winning machine.

 

[CloneMC16]

We have to evolve the team if we're going to progress. The process has started under Rangnick. There will be more pain in the short to medium term. We can't play counter attacking football forever. It won't win us a PL or CL. The fans have to accept this.

 

[redshaw]

We were a couple of years ago, now we're a broken skeleton of that. What made that work was Martial, Greenwood Rashford and James to a lesser extent playing relatively good form back then and we were very lethal. All we have now is a dead on his feet Rashford.

Really we need to move away from counter attack and be more about passing and keeping the ball, fill the roles with technical players over time and phase out all the players incapable. We need decent footballers for RB and LB and so on.

 

[villain]

Well when you play 2 centre backs with no pace, and a goal keeper who's glued to his line - we can't play a high line, or out from the back.
Compound that with midfielders who can barely pass well, can't bypass a press & are easily outmuscled & out worked, we find it difficult to build up play quickly too, added with a lop sided attack and fullbacks who aren't great at attacking it's a pretty simple equation.

 

[UpWithRivers]

We were a couple of years ago, now we're a broken skeleton of that. What made that work was Martial, Greenwood Rashford and James to a lesser extent playing relatively good form back then and we were very lethal. All we have now is a dead on his feet Rashford.

Really we need to move away from counter attack and be more about passing and keeping the ball, fill the roles with technical players over time and phase out all the players incapable. We need decent footballers for RB and LB and so on.

True but thats the problem. We tried to move to a more high press team. But thats what did it for Ole. Now we are a miss match. But we still have a back 5 thats a counterpress team, a midfield thats a counterpress team and a an attack thats...umm just not functional. But if it ever is i.e. Rashford comes to form then he too is still best suited to a counter press system.

 

[caid]

True but thats the problem. We tried to move to a more high press team. But thats what did it for Ole. Now we are a miss match. But we still have a back 5 thats a counterpress team, a midfield thats a counterpress team and a an attack thats...umm just not functional. But if it ever is i.e. Rashford comes to form then he too is still best suited to a counter press system.

The only way Rashford comes back into form is developing his game beyond being fast.
I get the point of the thread but we've been there and done that under Mourinho and it was a limited success. Theres nothing left to build on at this point, maguire hasn't been terrible because hes playing a high line, hes just out of his depth.

 

[Abraxas]

I don't think the attitude in the original post makes any sense. Do we really think the most successful managers in the game today walk in with this defeatist attitude? "This is what we've got so I may as well let it take us wherever it is leading."

Absolutely not, they are men of principle. If they don't like things, they change it. If it takes 2-3 years it takes 2-3 years. If it takes longer than that then we have to deal with that very probable reality. As long as progress is made along a course that is entirely visible fans will have to and most likely will accept that.

That's not to say RR shouldn't be playing to our strengths, he's an interim manager. I never bought all the process rubbish because he is judged on 6 months and how can you retain credibility as a consultant if you balls it up. He's there to win so he should be thinking pretty short term. The next manager has to have a much more extensive vision that understands where success currently is found in football, where we are and has the acumen and gravitas to move along that course.

 

[UpWithRivers]

I don't think the attitude in the original post makes any sense. Do we really think the most successful managers in the game today walk in with this defeatist attitude? "This is what we've got so I may as well let it take us wherever it is leading."

Absolutely not, they are men of principle. If they don't like things, they change it. If it takes 2-3 years it takes 2-3 years. If it takes longer than that then we have to deal with that very probable reality. As long as progress is made along a course that is entirely visible fans will have to and most likely will accept that.

That's not to say RR shouldn't be playing to our strengths, he's an interim manager. I never bought all the process rubbish because he is judged on 6 months and how can you retain credibility as a consultant if you balls it up. He's there to win so he should be thinking pretty short term. The next manager has to have a much more extensive vision.

Wouldnt you class Touchel, Conte, Simeone etc as successful managers? Is it being defeatist to hire these managers? Are they not defensive? All I am saying is that the Liverpool, City blueprint is class but we cant match it. Hence going for Ten Haag, Pochettino etc is not the right way to go. You can call it defeatist. I call it realism. Would I like to sell 90 percent of or players and spend 500 mill plus and get the next Klopp, Guardiola etc? Of course I would. Do I think its possible? Nope. Its sad to say and a part of me dies when I say it but its just the truth. It wont take 2/3 years. It will take 5 plus at the very least and even then its a long shot. I hope Im wrong but odds are much greater in getting a more defensive manager that can play to current players strengths than rebuilding from scratch.

 

[LennartsParadis]

We are a nothing team. This lot throws the towel at first resistance. No style can fix a broken mentality.

Some will prosper elsewhere, but they’ll never mount anything together. Thats the only thing we need to accept.

Im still in disbelief at the lack of ruthlessness. This comes from the top. Name another big club, who accepts this mediocrity, season after season?

 

[RedCurry]

Then you have to accept finishing 8-15th each season in the league because even the likes of Southampton and Brighton play high energy possession football and we will hardly have a chance to finish above them.

There’s no quick fix but in order to compete with the big boys you have to play as good or better. You don’t need to gengenpress all game if you have quality to keep the ball in certain phases of the game. Add a couple of quick CBs to the squad and we can play a higher line and all players can be slightly closer to each other which leads to better possession. Of course you need a manager capable of implementing this style and that’s why the entire forum is crying out for ETH.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Then you have to accept finishing 8-15th each season in the league because even the likes of Southampton and Brighton play high energy possession football and we will hardly have a chance to finish above them.

There’s no quick fix but in order to compete with the big boys you have to play as good or better. You don’t need to gengenpress all game if you have quality to keep the ball in certain phases of the game. Add a couple of quick CBs to the squad and we can play a higher line and all players can be slightly closer to each other which leads to better possession. Of course you need a manager capable of implementing this style and that’s why the entire forum is crying out for ETH.

Why is everyone acting like the high energy possession football is the only football that exists anymore?

 

[caid]

Why is everyone acting like the high energy possession football is the only football that exists anymore?

I dont. I just dont think the players suited to a low block are good players. I dont even think they're that suited to a low block so much as too limited to play anything else.
Even in the most optimistic circumstances we'll get 2 more years out of De Gea, his reflexes wont age well. He's not someone to plan a future around.
Maguire isn't bad because we're playing a high press, we gave that up weeks ago. Hes just lost confidence, or lost his head or whatever you want to call it. We're 30+ games into his football meltdown at this point so he wouldn't be high on my list of players to build on going forward. I think the gap in quality between him and lindelof is minimal at the best of times and Lindelof is probably more suited to a high press so its a trade off and i wouldn't be desperate to fit him in.
Our fullbacks range from mediocre to poor. Its not a system problem. They're just not good enough.
We need more midfielders regardless. 2 just isn't enough and i think a good midfielder is a good midfielder regardless of the system. I dont think Fred and McTominay are more suited to a low block than a high press. I'd probably value them higher in a high press personally.
Bruno gives the ball away too much, it doesn't become tolerable because were a counter attacking team. Its something that needs addressing regardless. Competition and some standards where he'd get dropped for Van De Beek for instance for not following the system would normally work. But then you'd have to drop most of the squad indefinitely so ...
Sancho can play either system (like any decent player imo). Elanga is a kid and he'll learn whatever system you teach him.
Rashford needs to learn some new tricks, maybe switching to a high press and him getting some work rate back in his game helps him. Maybe switching to a possession oriented team gives him the chance to develop his game.

 

[DJ_21]

All these grand ideas of high press, playing like Liverpool or City, getting Ten Haag and playing fancy football or even Poch is a delusion. This squad is about 20 players away from any of these styles of football and thats pushing it. Just think about it - Which players are suited to a high press, possession style football? Pogba, Sancho, Lindelof, Varane, Dalot, Telles, Hannibal, VDB, Diallo at a push. And more than half of them are either leaving, not good enough or young. It will be impossible for Ten Haag or anyone to come in and sell 90 percent of our team and replace them with players suitable for this style of football.

Now if we got a Simeone for example and played defensive counter attack football all our big players could stay - WB, Maguire, De Gea, Shaw, McFred, Bruno, Rashford, Elanga, Sancho etc. Yeah they are playing sht and everyone wants them out but lets be realistic, we cant get rid of them all. These players are low block counter attacking players. Thats just a fact. So are we going to keep trying to fit square pegs in round holes or just accept we need the best system for the players we have.

Lets say we get Ten Haag and by some miracle he gets 4/5 players. Do you think he will ever match City? Not a chance. If we get Simeone and he gets 4/5 players and we come up against City and play a low block, counter do we have a chance - I would say miles more than Ten Haag has. Yes we still have to resolve the problem of what do we do against facing low block teams but I would presume someone like Simeone would have an answer to that. Simeone would be hard to get but if not him someone like that. Someone who fits the style of the players we already have.

So your saying we go back to the mourinho type manager and get someone that plays boring football? The fans will get tired of it and start booing the team each home game after losing or drawing 0-0. If we got ten Haag he will need a few windows to get in the players that suit his style of football but also he will transform some of the players we already have and make them adapt to his style. Took klopp about 3 years for Liverpool to start playing the way he wanted and get the players in that suits his style of football. Guardiolas spent millions on players that fit in with his system… mainly on fullbacks and defenders. We’ve a better chance of going head to head with city by playing attacking exciting football then we do by counter attacking and parking the bus. First halve against city we controlled parts of the game and was pushing them back… we just don’t have the correct players to do it for 90 mins. If you attack city you have a chance of winning as they don’t know how to defend against attacking teams because there use to teams sitting back and them having all the ball.

 

[Abraxas]

Wouldnt you class Touchel, Conte, Simeone etc as successful managers? Is it being defeatist to hire these managers? Are they not defensive? All I am saying is that the Liverpool, City blueprint is class but we cant match it. Hence going for Ten Haag, Pochettino etc is not the right way to go. You can call it defeatist. I call it realism. Would I like to sell 90 percent of or players and spend 500 mill plus and get the next Klopp, Guardiola etc? Of course I would. Do I think its possible? Nope. Its sad to say and a part of me dies when I say it but its just the truth. It wont take 2/3 years. It will take 5 plus at the very least and even then its a long shot. I hope Im wrong but odds are much greater in getting a more defensive manager that can play to current players strengths than rebuilding from scratch.

The odds of what?

We're not doing anything with this core of players. Whichever way you want to look at it, defensive, pressing, attacking, possession, it doesn't matter as we simply do not have enough quality. It's not a matter of switching a few lads around in the market and playing some counterattacking football and all will be right in the world and I think you know that.

So you're really setting up a bit of a weak argument to frame it as defensive manager and a few smart changes versus 500 million in the market. For a start, our strikers are pensioners! That's irrespective of the style. Our midfield is non-existent. So you can talk about style but there's no getting around the restructuring we need. Either way it's probably going take a substantial sum and a period of time so the question is in which direction are we going to go?

The fact is the best teams around don't sit back and counter as over a course of a season you need more about you. You have to destroy average sides game after game. That's what leagues are built on and that's why we see consistency from teams that dominate the game rather than playing reactively. Playing on the counter might have some sporadic success of course, and yes it can definitely be pragmatic in certain fixtures but there's no doubt it's not the pattern of what is successful in modern football. It's about having the odds in your favour game after game.

I know what you mean in that it all looks a long way off. But how far off did it look for a mediocre Liverpool squad when Klopp took over? The world doesn't revolve around Klopp and Pep either, football will be standing when they're gone or past it. What we need is the next really special manager and to get out act together.

 

[Bastian]

I feel like this whole topic should be in the Ole's legacy thread.

 

[wolvored]

Put aside your hatred for Simeone, I dont like him any more than you do and would love a Ten Hagg. Lets look at the big picture of what I an saying. Our team is not suitable for high press, possession football. Can we agree with that? How are we ever going to change all our players to suit this a Ten Haag style? Its impossible.

so we are forever going to have to play the Ole or Simeone way forever, because the team cant change. How did Liverpool change from the safety first of Hodgson to Klopp? We need a strong willed manager to come in. To upset the apple cart. The owners need to accept there has to be a radical change of personnel and may have to take 2 or 3 years to rebuild.

 

[RedCurry]

Why is everyone acting like the high energy possession football is the only football that exists anymore?

Because that’s based on evidence across Europe. Thing is, teams that can play high energy are good at counter-attacking along with other forms of the game. You have to be able to adapt in-game and have many ways of opening the opposition. Counter-attacking as the primary weapon is dead, until someone figures out how to effectively use it to dominate domestic leagues and the CL.

 

[UpWithRivers]

The odds of what?

We're not doing anything with this core of players. Whichever way you want to look at it, defensive, pressing, attacking, possession, it doesn't matter as we simply do not have enough quality. It's not a matter of switching a few lads around in the market and playing some counterattacking football and all will be right in the world and I think you know that.

So you're really setting up a bit of a weak argument to frame it as defensive manager and a few smart changes versus 500 million in the market. For a start, our strikers are pensioners! That's irrespective of the style. Our midfield is non-existent. So you can talk about style but there's no getting around the restructuring we need. Either way it's probably going take a substantial sum and a period of time so the question is in which direction are we going to go?

The fact is the best teams around don't sit back and counter as over a course of a season you need more about you. You have to destroy average sides game after game. That's what leagues are built on and that's why we see consistency from teams that dominate the game rather than playing reactively. Playing on the counter might have some sporadic success of course, and yes it can definitely be pragmatic in certain fixtures but there's no doubt it's not the pattern of what is successful in modern football. It's about having the odds in your favour game after game.

I know what you mean in that it all looks a long way off. But how far off did it look for a mediocre Liverpool squad when Klopp took over? The world doesn't revolve around Klopp and Pep either, football will be standing when they're gone or past it. What we need is the next really special manager and to get out act together.

so we are forever going to have to play the Ole or Simeone way forever, because the team cant change. How did Liverpool change from the safety first of Hodgson to Klopp? We need a strong willed manager to come in. To upset the apple cart. The owners need to accept there has to be a radical change of personnel and may have to take 2 or 3 years to rebuild.

Why do people keep quoting Klopp. The dude is an anomaly. Liverpool took 30 years and then stumbled across him. The odds of another manager coming in and doing a Klopp is the same as hoping for another Sir Alex. Its never going to happen.

 

[wolvored]

Why do people keep quoting Klopp. The dude is an anomaly. Liverpool took 30 years and then stumbled across him. The odds of another manager coming in and doing a Klopp is the same as hoping for another Sir Alex. Its never going to happen.

Im on about its possible with time and a manager who has a strong personality to change from this simple tactic of hit and hope, to a more expansive football. RR coud do it if he was given 3 years and backing in the transfer window. Obviously thats not going to happen and the players aint bothered as he has no real power as hes out of the hot seat in May.

 

[Abraxas]

Why do people keep quoting Klopp. The dude is an anomaly. Liverpool took 30 years and then stumbled across him. The odds of another manager coming in and doing a Klopp is the same as hoping for another Sir Alex. Its never going to happen.

They don't have to do a complete Klopp, I don't know why you honed in on that point, it's just an example of how things can change in football. The point is we need to have a long term vision, a proper plan and a manager capable of making progress towards that. It might not be this same manager that takes us all the way to a title but we have to start somewhere.

It's better than meandering along thinking we're going to get anywhere playing counterattacking football which is demonstrably out of touch with what wins leagues. As I said, domestic success is about consistency and consistency comes from control of a match, winning the ball and putting the 14-15 teams that are not of your quality to the sword. You cannot just rely on mistakes from the opposition all season. Look at all the historic sides, whether it was us in our heyday, Barcelona, Bayern, current City and Liverpool - they all have their own approach but what doesn't change is attacking the game, being dominant.

As has been pointed out, if every club had your approach they would be stifled. They would be typecast into a style of football for eternity. We're not Atletico Madrid or José's Inter and if we're going to acknowledge that we're a complete mess and rip up the script let's at least start off with a new one that makes sense.

 

[Marcus]

For the remaining games, we have no choice. If Ralf wants top 4, we have to counter attack for the rest of the season. Don't be like Leeds and stick with a philosophy come hell or high water. Just get points on the board.

 

[cyril C]

I agree. Our biggest problems right now are linked to ego and vanity. For two seasons under Ole, we played pretty basic, dull 'ABC' football, standard 4-2-3-1 with a 'middle' block against weaker sides and a proper low-block against top four sides.

Now, regardless of our individual opinions about Ole as a manager/coach, what we cannot dispute is that we most likely achieved results above our station during his tenure. In particular, the 2nd-place last season, finishing above Champions League winners Chelsea and Liverpool, who are one of the best club sides in the World.

At the start of this season, we returned to the vanity project. High-press, high-block, underlapping full backs etc...clearly, we just don't have the personnel to do it. City and Liverpool are so far ahead of us in terms of individual quality and organisation in key areas that it's just beyond foolish to try to copy them in any way, shape or form.

We have tried to run before we can walk. We built up a nice little run of relative consistency for two seasons and then we threw all that out of the window amidst ridiculous talk of a title-challenge and now we're in as big a mess as ever. To be honest, I feel like we have been influenced by the 'noise' coming from outside the club. We were constantly hammered by the media because granted, we weren't the 'United of old', but we were still a good 2nd to a side basically playing with a cheat code!

There is no 'right' way to play football. Many teams have been successful without playing high-press/high-block. Yeah, sure, we all ultimately want to see us return to a swashbuckling style and picking up major trophies, and you do feel as though we would have had to be a little more 'progressive' against weaker sides to achieve that, but again, I feel we were far to quick to dismiss and abandon a style which had worked very well for us.

I have been asking this question 6 months ago. After we fell onto the floor under Ole, WHY didn't he switch back to counter-attack? This wouldn't beat bottom clubs, but at least wouldn't lose to Watford e.g.

 

[reddevilz007]

All these grand ideas of high press, playing like Liverpool or City, getting Ten Haag and playing fancy football or even Poch is a delusion. This squad is about 20 players away from any of these styles of football and thats pushing it. Just think about it - Which players are suited to a high press, possession style football? Pogba, Sancho, Lindelof, Varane, Dalot, Telles, Hannibal, VDB, Diallo at a push. And more than half of them are either leaving, not good enough or young. It will be impossible for Ten Haag or anyone to come in and sell 90 percent of our team and replace them with players suitable for this style of football.

Now if we got a Simeone for example and played defensive counter attack football all our big players could stay - WB, Maguire, De Gea, Shaw, McFred, Bruno, Rashford, Elanga, Sancho etc. Yeah they are playing sht and everyone wants them out but lets be realistic, we cant get rid of them all. These players are low block counter attacking players. Thats just a fact. So are we going to keep trying to fit square pegs in round holes or just accept we need the best system for the players we have.

Lets say we get Ten Haag and by some miracle he gets 4/5 players. Do you think he will ever match City? Not a chance. If we get Simeone and he gets 4/5 players and we come up against City and play a low block, counter do we have a chance - I would say miles more than Ten Haag has. Yes we still have to resolve the problem of what do we do against facing low block teams but I would presume someone like Simeone would have an answer to that. Simeone would be hard to get but if not him someone like that. Someone who fits the style of the players we already have.

With your thinking, let’s fight for Europa League every season then. Great ambitions you have.

 

[Vaultech]

Because that’s based on evidence across Europe. Thing is, teams that can play high energy are good at counter-attacking along with other forms of the game. You have to be able to adapt in-game and have many ways of opening the opposition. Counter-attacking as the primary weapon is dead, until someone figures out how to effectively use it to dominate domestic leagues and the CL.

I feel like so many Utd fans are stuck in good old fashioned football after so many years under Fergie that they are so resistant to change.

The fanbase seems rather conservative and not good at understanding trends in football as a whole. Ole had the fan support for so long partly because fans don't think much about his basic football because they got results. Even though many of the results were more due to lucky individual flair than a team collectively dominating the opposition.

Pep and Klopp has changed football in the EPL massively. They reguarly managed to win over 90 points in a season. You can't win the title with "traditional" football because you will never win as much points as those two teams. Even Chelsea under Tuchel were found wanting.

Ole's football is dependent on luck. On individual performing well even if the team doesn't. It may be good enough to win you a second or third place, but you just don't have the consistency to win the PL title.

Counter-attacking football gets you an occasion knock-out wins. But as Mourinho found out, his brand of football can't win major titles any longer.

 

[Lentwood]

I feel like so many Utd fans are stuck in good old fashioned football after so many years under Fergie that they are so resistant to change.

The fanbase seems rather conservative and not good at understanding trends in football as a whole. Ole had the fan support for so long partly because fans don't think much about his basic football because they got results. Even though many of the results were more due to lucky individual flair than a team collectively dominating the opposition.

Pep and Klopp has changed football in the EPL massively. They reguarly managed to win over 90 points in a season. You can't win the title with "traditional" football because you will never win as much points as those two teams. Even Chelsea under Tuchel were found wanting.

Ole's football is dependent on luck. On individual performing well even if the team doesn't. It may be good enough to win you a second or third place, but you just don't have the consistency to win the PL title.

Counter-attacking football gets you an occasion knock-out wins. But as Mourinho found out, his brand of football can't win major titles any longer.

I think most people are with you on that, but Pep and Klopp have the players to play football that way. City are playing 'Fantasy Football' and have basically assembled a super squad of clones who can all play Pep's way. Klopp has benefitted from working with probably the best Sporting Director in England over the last 7/8 years, in Michael Edwards.

I would love United to play 'progressive' football, but if we're not ready, what's the point in shooting ourselves in the foot, just after we had had two years of relative stability? Another season or two of addressing big issues like the CMs and the CF and we could then have started thinking about it, but we went too soon

 

[Vaultech]

I think most people are with you on that, but Pep and Klopp have the players to play football that way. City are playing 'Fantasy Football' and have basically assembled a super squad of clones who can all play Pep's way. Klopp has benefitted from working with probably the best Sporting Director in England over the last 7/8 years, in Michael Edwards.

I would love United to play 'progressive' football, but if we're not ready, what's the point in shooting ourselves in the foot, just after we had had two years of relative stability? Another season or two of addressing big issues like the CMs and the CF and we could then have started thinking about it, but we went too soon

Because at some point United needs to bite the bullet and accept a few seasons of painful transition in order to get the team to a better place. Arsenal did it. Liverpool did it.

If you as a club constantly run back towards comfort and safety, you will never progress as a club.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It's important the whole team is good on the ball, but it's absolutely vital that the midfielders are and we just don't have that.

Absolutely, and it’s why I scoff at the ideas Rice would suddenly complete this side. What we desperately need at the very top, is a World Class midfielder or two and that goes without saying they’d be incredible on the ball.

 

[UpWithRivers]

With your thinking, let’s fight for Europa League every season then. Great ambitions you have.

Why you talking crazy. City and Liverpool dont hold a monopoly on football style of play. You can play other styles of football and win. See Chelsea, Atletico etc. Its a question of should we watch sht football and win more or try and play better football on the eye and in my estimations loose.

 

[Chief123]

Put aside your hatred for Simeone, I dont like him any more than you do and would love a Ten Hagg. Lets look at the big picture of what I an saying. Our team is not suitable for high press, possession football. Can we agree with that? How are we ever going to change all our players to suit this a Ten Haag style? Its impossible.

If you think it’s impossible to adopt ten haag style of play, then we are even further away from Simeone’s style of play.

Don’t be fooled into thinking Simeone teams just sit deep and counter. His style requires incredibly hard work rate. When they do counter, they counter with numbers but as soon as they lose the ball the whole team runs back like complete madmen to pressure and get back into position. This is one thing we are incredibly poor at and in fact the worst in the league. We are a million miles away from being able to adopt Simeone’s style.

 

[UpWithRivers]

If you think it’s impossible to adopt ten haag style of play, then we are even further away from Simeone’s style of play.

Don’t be fooled into thinking Simeone teams just sit deep and counter. His style requires incredibly hard work rate. When they do counter, they counter with numbers but as soon as they lose the ball the whole team runs back like complete madmen to pressure and get back into position. This is one thing we are incredibly poor at and in fact the worst in the league. We are a million miles away from being able to adopt Simeone’s style.

Nothing works when we cant even fking run agreed but at our best thats exactly what we did. Look at PSG game and games against City etc a few seasons back. Heck Carrick did it against Chelsea. We would fight like sht then counter with numbers. Our goal against City on Sunday was a beautiful counter attack. Maybe Simeones style wont work, but point I was making is that we need to get a manager that fits our players the most. Who's a counter attacking manager that suits us I am not sure but I do know that Ten Haag would be fkd trying to get this lot to play any kind of passing/pressing football.

 

[LARulz]

Put aside your hatred for Simeone, I dont like him any more than you do and would love a Ten Hagg. Lets look at the big picture of what I an saying. Our team is not suitable for high press, possession football. Can we agree with that? How are we ever going to change all our players to suit this a Ten Haag style? Its impossible.

Then how is that ever going to change if you just take a counter attacking coach?

You have to start somewhere

 

[Gazza]

True but thats the problem. We tried to move to a more high press team. But thats what did it for Ole. Now we are a miss match. But we still have a back 5 thats a counterpress team, a midfield thats a counterpress team and a an attack thats...umm just not functional. But if it ever is i.e. Rashford comes to form then he too is still best suited to a counter press system.

I don't think so. There were a combination of factors that proved Ole was nowhere near good enough to be manager here. Tactics were only a part of it. New manager will be given time to get it right if his ideas are solid, so I don't have the same fears with someone like Ten Hag.

 

[Gazza]

Nothing works when we cant even fking run agreed but at our best thats exactly what we did. Look at PSG game and games against City etc a few seasons back. Heck Carrick did it against Chelsea. We would fight like sht then counter with numbers. Our goal against City on Sunday was a beautiful counter attack. Maybe Simeones style wont work, but point I was making is that we need to get a manager that fits our players the most. Who's a counter attacking manager that suits us I am not sure but I do know that Ten Haag would be fkd trying to get this lot to play any kind of passing/pressing football.

We've got a squad packed with mediocrity and we're going to let that dictate the playing style we want to employ over the next however-many years? Why not change the playing style and slowly add players who fit that blueprint? We've already acknowledged we're not good enough to get anywhere with this group of players so it seems foolish to let that dictate how we want to play.

 

[Hansi Fick]

Good luck convincing your new Dutch manager to accept that!

 

[BarrieW]

I have been a supporter since I was 7 in 1947/8 thro' good bad & indifferent . I have not ever seen our team with its heads down as they were in the second half. A team given up. Even in the year of relegation, the team tried once the Doc was appointed. He knew where he wanted the team to go to improve & put heart into the club. There appears to be no fun in the lads anymore.

 

[reddevilz007]

Why you talking crazy. City and Liverpool dont hold a monopoly on football style of play. You can play other styles of football and win. See Chelsea, Atletico etc. Its a question of should we watch sht football and win more or try and play better football on the eye and in my estimations loose.

Chelsea and Atletico are one offs. How many trophies or league have they won over the past 10 years?

City and Liverpool are consistently dominating. Bayern consistently dominates, Barca will get back to dominating eventually. Real is consistently at the top. None of these play low blocks and counterattacking. So no, no crazy talk. Our club needs to strive for these standards consistently.