Our structure is rather simple, give the manager all the power and all he wants from a footballing standpoint and let him get on with it. What we don't seem to understand is that finding another man with the capabilities of doing that is pretty much an impossibility in this era of managers obsessed with coaching. It's obvious we need someone better making football decisions cause at this point we're throwing money away.
We have much bigger "problems" than Mourinho at the club
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We definitely need a DOF, someone who shares our club philosophy and has shown that he's implemented something similar in his previous roles. We also need a buffer between manager and board, so the board isn't at the mercy of the manager's whims.
There's good points made by the Op, we need to hire people that fit with the club's philosophy, we can't go from Moyes style (whatever that was) to LVG and now to Mourinho - three completely different styles and none suits us. It is extremely expensive as the next manager comes in with his own style, we have to spend more again getting rid of players and getting more players etc etc. That is too unstable.
Well said. We ain't getting another SAF in our lifetimes - these kinds of geniuses are rare. Therefore we need to adapt and get people in who can execute a new approach.
We sacked him because he failed to qualify for the CL....Because we were regressing under his watch(finished 5th after we finished 4th in his 1st season)....And because we had a 3 time PL Champion waiting in the wings...
In contrast we are clearly progressing under Mourinho(6th to 2nd)....We are on course to qualify for the CL again....And because there is no upgrade to Jose available right now....
Fixed.
The manager having most of the power in England seems to be changing and the European model seems to be the way clubs are going as the OP mentioned
Being entirely manager dependant can work when managers were around for the long term but the way football has become purely a results business now it makes sense to adopt an approach that suits the club and have a long term vision that everyone at the club commits to
Man United's is just sign big managers and players, nobody seems to be thinking about tomorrow at Man United
If Mourinho is sacked who comes in?
Most likely a manager completely different to Mourinho and the whole process starts over again getting players to suit the new manager
Being entirely manager dependant can work when managers were around for the long term but the way football has become purely a results business now it makes sense to adopt an approach that suits the club and have a long term vision that everyone at the club commits to
Man United's is just sign big managers and players, nobody seems to be thinking about tomorrow at Man United
If Mourinho is sacked who comes in?
Most likely a manager completely different to Mourinho and the whole process starts over again getting players to suit the new manager
This is pretty evident to me when you look around the other big clubs in the world. Pretty much all of them work with a strategy around the whole club regarding new players, medical staff etc. Just look at Bayern, no one even know who their next coach will be and they could still get in Goretzka ahead of the next season and they had a new coach slot right in like it was nothing. We have no strategy, no new youngsters coming in who we loan out for experience. I have never understood why we didn't buy someone like Malcom and just loaned him out for a season or 2.
I see what you mean I thought you were saying in the next year or two like Mourinho will. Yes I think Poch will end up at Madrid but that may not be for another few seasons, and certainly not until he wins the Premier.
I agree to a degree on this re forward planning, but I'm not a fan of DOFs. I think the manager should say to his scouts 'I want a player that can do this, this and this', scouts go off and draft up a shortlist, then the manager has the final say, or gives an order of preference. The think that worries me about DOFs is that yes in some clubs the model works well, but at other clubs, it's a complete disaster.
Look at Everton for example. Before the season started they were an outside chance for the Champions League, but in reality Moshiri gave Walsh a wad of cash, he then became like an excited schoolkid and threw money around at anyone who looked good on YouTube/Football Manager, and now they're on to their third manager of the season and have spent the most of it in the bottom half.
Ultimately, I think every club is different, there's no right and wrong method here. Liverpool and Spurs supposedly are on the up but for all the fawning over them, Liverpool still have issues with only having one way of playing (which may be an issue once teams suss them out) plus they struggle to control games as the quality beyond the front three is questionable, and Spurs' squad looks a little thin. So, there's still question marks over their recruitment, just like us.
Look at Everton for example. Before the season started they were an outside chance for the Champions League, but in reality Moshiri gave Walsh a wad of cash, he then became like an excited schoolkid and threw money around at anyone who looked good on YouTube/Football Manager, and now they're on to their third manager of the season and have spent the most of it in the bottom half.
Ultimately, I think every club is different, there's no right and wrong method here. Liverpool and Spurs supposedly are on the up but for all the fawning over them, Liverpool still have issues with only having one way of playing (which may be an issue once teams suss them out) plus they struggle to control games as the quality beyond the front three is questionable, and Spurs' squad looks a little thin. So, there's still question marks over their recruitment, just like us.
Our 'Bigger Problems' were evident the day the club decided to give Moyes the job. Forget forward, there was no thinking in that at all. United board expected a mid-table manager to come here and lay the foundation for the next 10 years. There was no succession planning. Granted SAF's decision was out of the blue, but as a club, there should have been some planning. SAF is not immortal ( even though others are desperately trying to prove it otherwise).
So to counter one bad decision the board overcompensated in other areas, and are still compensating!. The whole reason why the board is happy with the way things are moving is because of the enormous brand value it has. Be it commercial sponsorships or buying players with 'pre-established brand value' there is no dearth of it currently. Even with 4 years of mediocrity, we have higher 'brand Value' than Real Madrid & Barcelona
The mentality seems to be - We are playing badly - oh let's go and buy a big name player in the summer and shut everyone up for some time and continue to do that for next few years until someone comes and makes them all play in the way they want. Or the fans will be bored and frustrated out of their minds that any small sliver of goodness will be appreciated.
it seems to be working, the fans who were #glazerout are now calling them the pariah's ( maybe a strong word) for splashing the cash!
So to counter one bad decision the board overcompensated in other areas, and are still compensating!. The whole reason why the board is happy with the way things are moving is because of the enormous brand value it has. Be it commercial sponsorships or buying players with 'pre-established brand value' there is no dearth of it currently. Even with 4 years of mediocrity, we have higher 'brand Value' than Real Madrid & Barcelona
The mentality seems to be - We are playing badly - oh let's go and buy a big name player in the summer and shut everyone up for some time and continue to do that for next few years until someone comes and makes them all play in the way they want. Or the fans will be bored and frustrated out of their minds that any small sliver of goodness will be appreciated.
it seems to be working, the fans who were #glazerout are now calling them the pariah's ( maybe a strong word) for splashing the cash!
This is United's key problem: short-termism, probably stemming from being wealthy and the high expectations for the here-and-now (which stem in turn from the Fergie era).
But the long-term is more than series of short-terms placed end to end.
I agree, the club’s success was built on the success and structure laid down by SAF in his 26 year reign. Why did Utd feel they had to change a winning formula, tweak it to go with the times but to throw it out the window to hopefully reinvent the wheel all over again, with a completely different approach, just shows the arrogance of Ed as our MD. I suppose that is why he and Jose get along so well both driven by egos.
City what's their strategy, Indulge the manager to get whatever player (bar one or two) he wants when he wants. Buy a goalkeeper, not keen after 12 months, buy another. Buy full backs, not keen buy some more next year. Get an injury over Xmas and try to spend £50m / £60m / £70m on a forward as a stop gap for six months? Wash Rinse Repeat.
Mou is right we cannot outspend them. If we do it one summer then next year they will only go and buy twice the players at twice the cost.
Liverpool: What's the long-term planning? as it certainly does not reach to Goalkeeper or defence. Prior to the money coming into City (and you could include Chelsea) Liverpool have had more than ample opportunity to narrow the gap at the top and have fallen short by their own high standards. Salah I think has taken everyone by suprise but watch how this movie plays out.
- 'We are not a selling club, Mo is integral to our long term vision. We are bigger than this, we are better than this !!!'
- Liverpool knock back a close to world record bid for him
- Liverpool sell Salah six months later to Barca / Madrid / Bayern
Chelsea
- What is the structure? Both Mou and Conte strongly hint to not having the funds to compete. Are they there just to be the big dick in London or compete at the very highest level consistently?
There is a lot of pain at United at the moment but their is good noise coming out of Old Trafford about the youth set-up and thats a long term vision, long term strategy that fits with our identity as a club.
I think the club rather learnt the wrong lessons from Sir Alex's success. They thought long term manager, given all the power to make footballing decisions. After the Moyes experiment, they thought proven winner, given all the power to make footballing decisions. After LVG, they still thought proven winner, given all the power to make footballing decisions.
At no time did they think Ferguson struggled for a long time at United, his team was typically dull, didn't use width, sold Barnes, Olsen and Strachan fairly early on. Then once he got Sharpe, Kanchelskis, Giggs in the team, we saw a significant upturn. From then on, he was a manager that took huge attacking risks in order to win games. Tons of players in the box when crosses came in. Full-backs such as Evra, that offered far more going forwards. Take off a midfield player to introduce another striker like Hernandez if we needed a goal.
To go from that approach to LVG then to Mourinho requires the fans in the stadium to adjust their view of how football should be played. It is pretty clear from the "attack, attack, attack" chants that were heard during LVG's 2nd season and have reappeared recently, that a significant chunk of the match going support, haven't adapted to the change.
If you are going to play dull football, then you better be hugely successful, otherwise the fans' tolerance is unlikely to last long. Even if Woodward made the wrong managerial choices, he should have been stressing to the man in the job, that exciting, attacking football was a high priority at United; obviously I have no idea if he did so or not.
At no time did they think Ferguson struggled for a long time at United, his team was typically dull, didn't use width, sold Barnes, Olsen and Strachan fairly early on. Then once he got Sharpe, Kanchelskis, Giggs in the team, we saw a significant upturn. From then on, he was a manager that took huge attacking risks in order to win games. Tons of players in the box when crosses came in. Full-backs such as Evra, that offered far more going forwards. Take off a midfield player to introduce another striker like Hernandez if we needed a goal.
To go from that approach to LVG then to Mourinho requires the fans in the stadium to adjust their view of how football should be played. It is pretty clear from the "attack, attack, attack" chants that were heard during LVG's 2nd season and have reappeared recently, that a significant chunk of the match going support, haven't adapted to the change.
If you are going to play dull football, then you better be hugely successful, otherwise the fans' tolerance is unlikely to last long. Even if Woodward made the wrong managerial choices, he should have been stressing to the man in the job, that exciting, attacking football was a high priority at United; obviously I have no idea if he did so or not.
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I think there's something about Carrington inside when they want to extend Jose's contract by 1 years so they can buy times to build a United's structure setup like bring in new DOF and overhauled scouting network in the last two years, snapped up Javier Ribault from Juventus to join us as a chief scout last summer. I reckon they are building for the future, in a similar way how City is building for Pep Guardiola since 2012. United also invested heavily in the youth academy recently, Ed Woodward instigated a huge overhaul of the club’s academy and scouting operation that was set up by Sir Alex Ferguson in the 90s and transforming Sir Alex Ferguson academy into the modern academy system and 50 staff new recruits have been brought. United the U18 is a lot stronger, much improved and playing really fantastic football, it is paid off. Hopefully, to produce a potentially world-class player who would be part of United for decades. As far as I know, Jose said himself he wants to promote a new player from the academy every season, now he is doing with Scott Mctominay, there should be another next season. United also keen on breeding their own future coach with the style of play that would be installed by our club, like Barca did with the tiki tia style of play they installed and keep playing that way, It seems that Mckenna is on way.
We were linked with a director of football over years.
I think United has identified a new type of manager who they want to bring it to United, preferably manager who can play youth academy after getting promoted from the academy. I can think of Allegri and Jardim which United is more likely to bring in 2020 if United don't activate 1 years option in Jose's contract, both managers are committed to the clubs until 2020 or waiting for a new exciting young manager like Pochettino who has contact with Spurs until 2021 but I prefer Pochettino despite lack of his trophies success, because of their British core and youth academy which United is famous for under SAF.
All of you criticizing United for giving Jose a year extension contract, considering there are not many top managers who could become available in 2019 but as you all mentioned manager likes Sarri, Allegri, Simeone and Jardim, they all will be leaving in 2020, or Pochettino in 2021 if United think they can get Pochettino and may activate 1 year option in Jose contract to keep him until the end of the season in 2021 so Pochettino can take over, it would make more sense for wanting to keep Jose for 1 year more before a lot of top managers become available.
However, I think United board know they can't depend on Jose's stability and need to prepare for whenever Jose is leaving so we can continue stability with the new manager if everything is already set up, which United is building.
I think Jose is really doing good jobs, because of the fact that Jose didn't strength United with 3 signings last summer, only Matic signing making a difference and has improved United dramatically, I don't count Lukaku that is making a difference cos we replaced injured Zlatan with him. but somehow, Jose carried us to 2nd second placed in the league, progressed to UCL round of the 16 and is in the semi final of FA Cup, this is a big improvement, Pep Guardiola would fail that job if he was our manager instead of Jose. LVG, Conte and other managers would fail that too with our squad and struggle to finish in top 4, so Jose is more suitable for this. I appreciate Jose's work.
If United had a decent striker and DM before Jose take over, Jose won't be going for Matic and Lukaku so he can spend money on somewhere that requires a massive upgrade, if a signing like Matic can make a difference so other position that he spend on could even make difference. If we upgraded defence to match City, Spurs and Chelsea with De Gea in goal could reduce conceded goals and shot conceded by 40%. De Gea is 4th for making the most saves in the league this season, that's kind of show how bad our defence is and neither Smalling and Jones are comfortable on balls and De Gea is worth at least 10 points for us. If we can upgrade the defence, adding new one CM to XI 4-3-3, United could challenge City for titles. I noticed De Gea has improved dramatically this season with more 13 saves than last season and played less 8 games.
I am really glad we have made a lot of progressive last two years, I have also seen an improvement in scouting network for senior United team after Ed Woodward overhauled club’s scouting system that transforming Sir Alex Ferguson’s network into a modern network, thanks to Moye for recognizing there was no accessible database of potential players when he took over from Ferguson. There is still room for improvement as United is not finished product yet.
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I really appreciate Ed Woodward for playing a role in rebuilding a structure which will transform SAF's structure era into a modern structure. I felt we should have done it sooner under David Gill, he is the reason why we regressed over years, didn't improve anything, lack activity of in transfer window and giving much too respect to SAF. Can you imagine what it would be like if Woodward didn't take over and continue under David Gill? David Gill was the reason why LVG and Moye have a poor transfer window because of Sir Alex Ferguson’s outdated scouting network which David Gill didn't improve, Woodward has overhauled this completed successfully and our scouting has improved in last few years.[FONT=verdana, geneva, lucida, lucida grande, arial, helvetic, sans-serif][/FONT]
It took City couple of years to build a structure to be similar to Barcelona, United don't need to be more like Barca, City is just another wannabe who wants to be Barcelona.
We were linked with a director of football over years.
I think United has identified a new type of manager who they want to bring it to United, preferably manager who can play youth academy after getting promoted from the academy. I can think of Allegri and Jardim which United is more likely to bring in 2020 if United don't activate 1 years option in Jose's contract, both managers are committed to the clubs until 2020 or waiting for a new exciting young manager like Pochettino who has contact with Spurs until 2021 but I prefer Pochettino despite lack of his trophies success, because of their British core and youth academy which United is famous for under SAF.
All of you criticizing United for giving Jose a year extension contract, considering there are not many top managers who could become available in 2019 but as you all mentioned manager likes Sarri, Allegri, Simeone and Jardim, they all will be leaving in 2020, or Pochettino in 2021 if United think they can get Pochettino and may activate 1 year option in Jose contract to keep him until the end of the season in 2021 so Pochettino can take over, it would make more sense for wanting to keep Jose for 1 year more before a lot of top managers become available.
However, I think United board know they can't depend on Jose's stability and need to prepare for whenever Jose is leaving so we can continue stability with the new manager if everything is already set up, which United is building.
I think Jose is really doing good jobs, because of the fact that Jose didn't strength United with 3 signings last summer, only Matic signing making a difference and has improved United dramatically, I don't count Lukaku that is making a difference cos we replaced injured Zlatan with him. but somehow, Jose carried us to 2nd second placed in the league, progressed to UCL round of the 16 and is in the semi final of FA Cup, this is a big improvement, Pep Guardiola would fail that job if he was our manager instead of Jose. LVG, Conte and other managers would fail that too with our squad and struggle to finish in top 4, so Jose is more suitable for this. I appreciate Jose's work.
If United had a decent striker and DM before Jose take over, Jose won't be going for Matic and Lukaku so he can spend money on somewhere that requires a massive upgrade, if a signing like Matic can make a difference so other position that he spend on could even make difference. If we upgraded defence to match City, Spurs and Chelsea with De Gea in goal could reduce conceded goals and shot conceded by 40%. De Gea is 4th for making the most saves in the league this season, that's kind of show how bad our defence is and neither Smalling and Jones are comfortable on balls and De Gea is worth at least 10 points for us. If we can upgrade the defence, adding new one CM to XI 4-3-3, United could challenge City for titles. I noticed De Gea has improved dramatically this season with more 13 saves than last season and played less 8 games.
I am really glad we have made a lot of progressive last two years, I have also seen an improvement in scouting network for senior United team after Ed Woodward overhauled club’s scouting system that transforming Sir Alex Ferguson’s network into a modern network, thanks to Moye for recognizing there was no accessible database of potential players when he took over from Ferguson. There is still room for improvement as United is not finished product yet.
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I really appreciate Ed Woodward for playing a role in rebuilding a structure which will transform SAF's structure era into a modern structure. I felt we should have done it sooner under David Gill, he is the reason why we regressed over years, didn't improve anything, lack activity of in transfer window and giving much too respect to SAF. Can you imagine what it would be like if Woodward didn't take over and continue under David Gill? David Gill was the reason why LVG and Moye have a poor transfer window because of Sir Alex Ferguson’s outdated scouting network which David Gill didn't improve, Woodward has overhauled this completed successfully and our scouting has improved in last few years.[FONT=verdana, geneva, lucida, lucida grande, arial, helvetic, sans-serif][/FONT]
It took City couple of years to build a structure to be similar to Barcelona, United don't need to be more like Barca, City is just another wannabe who wants to be Barcelona.
I do agree there are certain structural problems in need of being addressed, but I also think they're being partly overstated and over-complicated. Football's a funny game and sometimes with one or two additions or small changes to a team everything can either go right or can fall to pieces.
I've used this example a few times, but Mourinho's 2014-15 Chelsea mostly looked very good, a vastly improved side that'd been stabilised by Mourinho and that looked set to be the league's strongest side for a number of years to come. They then fell apart, players revolting and the squad disunited...but then strengthened again under Conte and produced a near-record points total on the way to mostly walking the league. Then again this season unrest has emerged and Conte is mostly discontent.
Point being, even if you've got structural problems it's a lot easier than people realise to overcome them, and even when all seems well it's very quick for that to fall apart, and for new problems to suddenly emerge. I don't think our structural problems are really what's holding us back...mostly it's just been poor management (Moyes and LVG) and a number of big money signings who've either flattered to deceive or not been as good as we'd hoped they would be.
I've used this example a few times, but Mourinho's 2014-15 Chelsea mostly looked very good, a vastly improved side that'd been stabilised by Mourinho and that looked set to be the league's strongest side for a number of years to come. They then fell apart, players revolting and the squad disunited...but then strengthened again under Conte and produced a near-record points total on the way to mostly walking the league. Then again this season unrest has emerged and Conte is mostly discontent.
Point being, even if you've got structural problems it's a lot easier than people realise to overcome them, and even when all seems well it's very quick for that to fall apart, and for new problems to suddenly emerge. I don't think our structural problems are really what's holding us back...mostly it's just been poor management (Moyes and LVG) and a number of big money signings who've either flattered to deceive or not been as good as we'd hoped they would be.
The problem with United's model is that it's a based on the presmise of long-term gains. You give that much power to a manager because you expect him to stay for the long haul. Problem is the current state of football doesn't really allow that kind of long-term planning for a big club. If your first 2-3 seasons are failures, it would do considerable damage to the club, and it would damage the club's ability to remain competitive going forward. This was ultimately United's problem: they gave too much power to the 2 wrong people and they sunk the club. Now they're doing the same with Mourinho, who at least seems to be doing a good job of creating a good base for the future, even if the performances have been below expectations, but it's still an extremely risky model. United need a competent football person or two in a management role to both supervise, help, and restrict the manager, and each other, and vice versa
...or Woodward needs to fully embrace the Florentino Perez school of "sign cracks, sort it out later". This still would resctrict the manager's power and influence, but it might not be a good idea
...or Woodward needs to fully embrace the Florentino Perez school of "sign cracks, sort it out later". This still would resctrict the manager's power and influence, but it might not be a good idea
The OP mentioned the strategies of other clubs. I am not sure a strategy was mentioned. That still wasn't clear by the OP. Saying things like integrate youth or play different football is great. But, what is their long term strategy? To win a major trophy in X amount of years? To dominate European football in X amount of years? What are they working towards?
Secondly, whats wrong with United at the moment? We are still winning trophies. Something both Liverpool and the mighty Tottenham have failed to do and continue to fail at.
Some other points. We brought in Nicky Butt to to revamp the youth structure and apparently he is doing a wonderful job and is getting the youth ready for the first team. We have also successfully integrated Lingard, Rashford and McTominay into the first team. Something that Liverpool, City and Chelsea cannot seem to do.
We also brought over Javier Ribalta from Juventus a year ago to take over the scouting department. He is regarded as one of the best scouts in the world and now we have him at United.
The club also has an incredible way of generating a fist load of cash every year all without the use of a sugar daddy. If said sugar daddy gets bored or becomes bankrupt on their own downfall where will City go? Where will a club like PSG go? At least we will still be around, IMO.
While there may be Mourhino doubters here there is no doubt he is improving the club after 4 years of some struggle. I feel much more confident under Mourhino than LVG or Moyes and I backed both of them as well, for as long as I could.
Secondly, whats wrong with United at the moment? We are still winning trophies. Something both Liverpool and the mighty Tottenham have failed to do and continue to fail at.
Some other points. We brought in Nicky Butt to to revamp the youth structure and apparently he is doing a wonderful job and is getting the youth ready for the first team. We have also successfully integrated Lingard, Rashford and McTominay into the first team. Something that Liverpool, City and Chelsea cannot seem to do.
We also brought over Javier Ribalta from Juventus a year ago to take over the scouting department. He is regarded as one of the best scouts in the world and now we have him at United.
The club also has an incredible way of generating a fist load of cash every year all without the use of a sugar daddy. If said sugar daddy gets bored or becomes bankrupt on their own downfall where will City go? Where will a club like PSG go? At least we will still be around, IMO.
While there may be Mourhino doubters here there is no doubt he is improving the club after 4 years of some struggle. I feel much more confident under Mourhino than LVG or Moyes and I backed both of them as well, for as long as I could.
Half of the current Redcafe top threads could be re titled "The Sky is Falling!".
He could also title Mourinho's press conferences that.
To retire
Don’t be silly!
The tactics Mourinho adopts or the squad is filled with mediocre players? If you go from Rio/Vidic to Jones/Smalling, isn’t that a downgrade?
I didn't.
Mourinho's teams have been playing much the same football for ... what? ... 10 / 15 years. Anyone who was expecting anything other than what hes provided is a bit foolish imo.
I said “eh?” Because it wasn’t exactly a surprise or a secret that he was retiring. The club had plenty of time to plan
I'm going to take your comments with a pinch of salt, I don't know your age or your full knowledge of United during the period of time I've been supporting United.
If this football and team have you pleased, then I'm sorry I think you're mad. We've always beaten the better teams, that's the DNA of the club.
We should be playing with a style of football that has teams scared to come to Old Trafford, nobody fears this United team.
I personally don't think Van Gaal was a bad manager; but he was awful in the transfer market and that made his tactics look bad. I don't for one second believe he wanted united to look as slow and boring as they did. In fact, the structure of his team was similar to Peps. Some of the underlying problems he had still exist today with the same players he had under a manager who did not have those problems at his previous clubs. Problems in moving the ball out from the back, creativity from the wingers, and poor overlapping from full backs. But as I said before, he signed most of those players like Darmian, so he could no longer be trusted with our rebuild.
ok! even then it supports my sentiment of club not doing anything to plan better!
I thought he left us in a better state than he found us in personally. Mourinho will have to get pretty self destructive to not do better on that front either.
If we had a structure great players of our past wouldn't have fit it. Beckham wouldn't have worked for Kloop or Pep, slow asmatic Scholes isn't going to be pressing high.
You buy great players and the tactics are adjusted to fit
You buy great players and the tactics are adjusted to fit
I don't think he did. None of his players would currently be first team members in our squad except maybe Martial. When you consider how much he spent, that is incredibly bad. There is a case to be made that scouts rather than Van Gaal were more responsible for this occurring, but thats just speculation. Van Gaal failed because instead of selling the least productive members of our squad, he sold the players the club felt had value. So the worst players under Moyes were still at United while the best players were either sold or retired. He replaced those players with players arguably worse or at best equal to the ones he sold, hence why we performed the way we did under him. He should have progressively bought talent, rather than overhaul the squad. It is possible that the board insisted on selling players to buy which would explain the sale of valuable players. My general feeling is that Moyes' squad did not need an overhaul, but maybe 4 to 5 signings.
He had De Gea. At centre back he made a mistake in selling evans so quickly, and instead should have bought an experienced known centre back to replace Vidic and Ferdinand. This way he could assess, and if talent was not shown, replace a centre back in the next transfer window. He should have kept evra and not bought Shaw, or at the very least bought a more experienced left back. In midfield, he could have bought a better player than Herrera to accompany Carrick, who he could have replaced in another transfer window instead of buying blind and herrera for cheap in one swoop. On the flanks he should have kept Nani and still bought Di Maria. Then again, hindsight.
Pep strangely loves direct wingers (Costa, Sane) so he would probably love someone like Beckham. And Barca won everything playing a high press with Xavi and Iniesta midfielders similar to Scholes.
I get where the OP is coming from. In basketball, teams have general managers and a structure that all but guarantees some form of structure or stability. Even with an unpredictable system like drafting and free agents where talent isn't secure, and players are not simply bought or sold, organizations can remain stable and successful because they have a structure aside from a long term manager that keeps things ticking. The Rockets or the Spurs or Warriors have a structure, where they determine the style they want, acquire players based on that style and hire coaches that fit that style, so in the event of a coach leaving, they can remain successful. Imagine that structure in football. That's the model City just started following, and the one that has kept teams like Barcelona and Bayern Munich at the top of their respective leagues for so long. Maybe after Mourinho we should adopt a model like this.
For me it's not about the club's structure, it's more about how the standard to be United players have dropped over the years and it's not just about the quality but most importantly the mentality. I don't think United were always full of world class players from GK to Strikers. There were always decent players but They did well under SAF and even won the league. Sure They were only decent and had several bad games but They rarely looked like They didn't give a feck on the pitch and at least tried (Fletcher, Park, O'Shea to name a few). Even though They're not flashy, They make the team work because They put in effort and play their roles.
Now you look at the 'decent' players We have, hell, even the 'world class' ones and You see how some of them don't hold up to that standard anymore. They don't put in any effort to be consistent, not trying hard enough, can't even string simple passes together if things don't go their way. Technically They're better than most of the players in the league but it means feck all if They don't want to turn up during matches. It's getting easier for players to hide and let the manager takes the blame. The managers surely are responsible for any bad performances or tactical failures but The players need to be professional too.
If the so called Manchester United players can't even be bothered to not to misplace a pass then they can feck off. I'm sure glad Jose roasted them in public. Never mind sacking the manager and spending another 500 million building a new team that the new manager wants, They players need to perform up to their capability first. If when They start trying, the team still lose time and time again with little to no improvement then the manager can feck off. Do the basic things right then We'll see if it really is the managers fault.
They're getting paid a lot, They need to take a responsibility not to make things even worse. If We do change manager and the same players with such weak mentality are still here, how long would it take for them to do the same things all over again?
Now you look at the 'decent' players We have, hell, even the 'world class' ones and You see how some of them don't hold up to that standard anymore. They don't put in any effort to be consistent, not trying hard enough, can't even string simple passes together if things don't go their way. Technically They're better than most of the players in the league but it means feck all if They don't want to turn up during matches. It's getting easier for players to hide and let the manager takes the blame. The managers surely are responsible for any bad performances or tactical failures but The players need to be professional too.
If the so called Manchester United players can't even be bothered to not to misplace a pass then they can feck off. I'm sure glad Jose roasted them in public. Never mind sacking the manager and spending another 500 million building a new team that the new manager wants, They players need to perform up to their capability first. If when They start trying, the team still lose time and time again with little to no improvement then the manager can feck off. Do the basic things right then We'll see if it really is the managers fault.
They're getting paid a lot, They need to take a responsibility not to make things even worse. If We do change manager and the same players with such weak mentality are still here, how long would it take for them to do the same things all over again?
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Disagree. Young Scholes is your perfect Klopp and Pep player. Very fluid and dynamic and loves a tackle (even if he can't tackle that well). His asthma never really made an impact on his dynamism on the pitch and only in his later years when his legs went, he wasn't able to cover the pitch as well. As for Beckham, with his fitness levels.. he'd have been brilliant at high press. He's intelligent on the ball too, so whilst not an ideal fit due to lack of top tier dribbling skills.. his pressing ability, and general press resistance (due to his high football IQ) would have ensured he found a way in.
Why I feel that we're discussing the same things over and over and over and over again? It's like groundhog day but with Michael Haneke directing it: Press Conference -> United plays -> Win or lose? Whatever, because, at the end of the day, it's all shit, everything is wrong, there's no hope and we're waiting for a Godot/Manager that will never come -> Another press conference -> United Plays -> Same outcome.
No disrespect to op and the guys giving their opinion - you have the right to do it - but I'm just tired. Still love the caf, but i'll put it on hold untill next game and use my free week to binge-watch Cowboy Bebop.
No disrespect to op and the guys giving their opinion - you have the right to do it - but I'm just tired. Still love the caf, but i'll put it on hold untill next game and use my free week to binge-watch Cowboy Bebop.
Which begs the question(s), why did so many United fans want him at the club so desperately then(cos he wins stuff isn't a good enough reason), and more importantly when are they going to put their hand up, and apologise to those of us who never wanted him anywhere near the club in the first place ??
I was joking, you don't have to put your hand up
This is spot on for me, or the basic premise is at least.
When you hire three managers in a row and they all look like they don't know what to do with what they've been given, then, even in the event that this is down to all three of them being useless, the focus has to be on who it is that keeps appointing useless managers and why.
More realistically, it's highly unlikely that all three are completely useless, and the focus should be on why these managers are struggling so much at the club, why our signings don't ever seem to fit any kind of profile or plan. Why we keep signing people on massive wages with no real goal or plan of how to use them (how many times has this happened now post Fergie?). Why all three of these managers have had negative things to say about how things like signings, contracts etc. are handled.
These are problems you can no longer pin on a manager, and are problems that make it difficult for any manager to be nearly as effective as they could be.
Add to that you have stories like Klopp claiming he was put off the job by Woodward's ideals and pitch to him.
Honestly, I said it somewhere the other day, but regardless of whether it's Jose or someone else, I don't think a lot changes until the club gets its shite together above manager level. It's not all about investment or spending, it's about having a plan in place that isn't just Woodward pretending he's playing FIFA ultimate team.
After the ‘rant’ press conference, it’s clear that Jose is staying and the rant was a message to the players and fans to that end. The players , in fairness, have had some shite to deal with after LVG and Moyes plus the constant barrage of negative media. For me, Jose was saying in his own way to the players that he knows what he’s talking about and if they can’t implement his plan, then he’ll find players that will.
The fans can whistle as far as he’s concerned. OT will be full every home game and we will still generate huge revenues whatever the fans say. I can’t get my head around how we can have been so good early season and faded badly after the first International break. The Huddersfield away game was a turning point of the season.
Meanwhile, Mancelona at the Emptyhad power on with St.Pep breaking all the rules, spending all the cash for world domination. Much the same as they have said for ten seasons. Next season they won’t be so dominant I predict and Guardiola will move back to Barca to be a politician.
The fans can whistle as far as he’s concerned. OT will be full every home game and we will still generate huge revenues whatever the fans say. I can’t get my head around how we can have been so good early season and faded badly after the first International break. The Huddersfield away game was a turning point of the season.
Meanwhile, Mancelona at the Emptyhad power on with St.Pep breaking all the rules, spending all the cash for world domination. Much the same as they have said for ten seasons. Next season they won’t be so dominant I predict and Guardiola will move back to Barca to be a politician.