We need to get some leaders in: names?

Fortitude

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We need some reliable, dependable players in the side who can keep the rest calm and guide them at times when things aren't running smoothly.

I find we're perfectly capable of playing swift, precise football, but once we hit a blip or have a few breakdowns in passages of play, we rapidly go to pot, particularly in terms of confidence as well as wanting and showing for the ball. We need players who thrive in these moments, and show even more when things are't ticking over smoothly.

Of course, quality goes hand in hand, but how many viable targets are out there who are affordable and fit this kind of profile? Players who can come in and steady our ship?
 

Vidyoyo

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Fellaini scored a hattrick earlier
 

Tom Cato

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Jens Stoltenberg
 

jesperjaap

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Well the obvious one but he isnt leaving Italy unless we probably made an insane offer almost forcing Milan to sell him like they did Thiago SIlva who didnt really want to leave years ago is Romagnoli
 

davidmichael

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I’m not sure how he’s been over the whole season but Vertonghen on a free from Spurs on a one year deal would be a decent signing on many fronts with one being his leadership skills, Grealish is meant to be our main target after Sancho and he’s been captain at Aston Villa for a few seasons so that’d be another and I’d like to see us bring in Declan Rice who is a born leader from what I’ve seen of him.
 

cptkeane1993

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Spot on. The 99, 08 teams were full of leaders. The currently Liverpool team has a few. The domestic season is long and gruelling, physically and mentally.
Leaders absolutely make a huge difference. Ole knows that of course - so not a surprise he got in Maguire and Fernandes, the current leaders of our defence and attack respectively.

We need more - Grealish, Rice, Ake are captains or have captained their clubs at some point. Rice especially looks awesome and will cover for / replace Matic in the longer term.
 
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jesperjaap

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Grealish.
Yes this is one of the good reasons to sign Grealish people rarely mention. I mean look at the difference Fernandes has made on the pitch, not just performance wise but the leadership he has shown as well.

It is something we have severely lacked for a long time now, you only have to look at our last few captains to see that.
 

Luke1995

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But to answer the question on who could be bought, would you guys be willing to see the club take a gamble on players who have never played in europe before ?

Real Madrid for example, did manage to settle in guys like Vinicius Jr and Rodrygo nicely. Maybe United could do the same with other good south american players who perhaps would be more cheap to get in the current market
 

DannyDee

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I think its a role a lot of people grow into. I don't think Vidic and Evra came in here as leaders. Now, it does help to have people surrounding to guide them. I mean, Scholes never struck me as a leader, but he commanded significant respect due to his consistency, work ethic, and calming playstyle, compared to the more vocal style of guys like Keane and Neville. Its hard to find someone who can walk-in from another team and immediately be respected as a leader at a club of this size. Unless its like Maguire, who was already a very experienced EPL player with a leadership role on a national team which we have a few guys on.
 

Mr. Ant

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But to answer the question on who could be bought, would you guys be willing to see the club take a gamble on players who have never played in europe before ?

Real Madrid for example, did manage to settle in guys like Vinicius Jr and Rodrygo nicely. Maybe United could do the same with other good south american players who perhaps would be more cheap to get in the current market
That depends if we have a decent scouting network in South America. I'm pretty sure we can get decent young players from France or Germany and they would cost a lot less money than English players.

Some of them might turn out to be leaders and not just vocal ones but leading with their attitude and work ethic.

If we want to challenge for trophies first of all we need good squad depth which we don't really have. Leaders will emerge on their own.
 

Bondi77

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DannyDee

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That depends if we have a decent scouting network in South America. I'm pretty sure we can get decent young players from France or Germany and they would cost a lot less money than English players.

Some of them might turn out to be leaders and not just vocal ones but leading with their attitude and work ethic.

If we want to challenge for trophies first of all we need good squad depth which we don't really have. Leaders will emerge on their own.
Our track record with South Americans leaves a lot to be desired. Granted, most were bought from European clubs. It's pretty crazy for a club of our statures best Brazillian player is probably Rafael in our history.
 

jesperjaap

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But to answer the question on who could be bought, would you guys be willing to see the club take a gamble on players who have never played in europe before ?

Real Madrid for example, did manage to settle in guys like Vinicius Jr and Rodrygo nicely. Maybe United could do the same with other good south american players who perhaps would be more cheap to get in the current market
Generally I would even though its a huge gamble. But I think this summer with lower costs on the continent there isnt the needs, just look at France and the likes of Soumare, Gabriel for example and they are relatively low fees. I actually think there are a lot of very good deals out there but we are fixated on Sancho and Grealish, rightly so in my opinion anyway as I think both would be great signings but the likes of Camavinga and Upamecano even would probably both be South of £50m and they are huge talents.

The gambles for me are more to do with potential outgoings. See a lot of people saying our deadwood is worth nothing, which I disagree with anyway....but then there are also the likes of DeGea, Dalot, Bailly, Fred for example who there are good reasons to sell and would command decent fees. I mean Fred/Bailly for example pays for Upamecano, Lingard/Dalot/Smalling pays for Camavinga. Sanchez pays.....all our incomings wages haha
 

Mr. Ant

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Our track record with South Americans leaves a lot to be desired. Granted, most were bought from European clubs. It's pretty crazy for a club of our statures best Brazillian player is probably Rafael in our history.
I think we need to take our chances more often on young and unknown players and try to get them before other clubs develop them and try to sell them on for crazy amounts of money.
 

fergosaurus

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He looks Inter bound but we should be looking at Sandro Tonali. He's young but is praised as being a natural leader. As a bonus he plays in a position we need to strengthen and has great potential.
 

NoneBmStore

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Churchill? Is Chamberlain an ok mention for you lots in England?
Perhaps Polf or Garfield ?
 

jackal&hyde

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We have a few already, what we need imo is to win a trophy and then there will be a lot more confidence.
 

Luke1995

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That depends if we have a decent scouting network in South America. I'm pretty sure we can get decent young players from France or Germany and they would cost a lot less money than English players.

Some of them might turn out to be leaders and not just vocal ones but leading with their attitude and work ethic.

If we want to challenge for trophies first of all we need good squad depth which we don't really have. Leaders will emerge on their own.
Some players lead by talent, givin their all, yeah. Scholes didn't talk alot but his presence on the pitch made the others give 110%

No idea how our scouting network is currently structured. It seems to change every year
 

Sandikan

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We need some excellent players. This leadership thing I think is a bit of a red herring these days. You don't need some angry sweary geezer dishing out abuse.
You need quality players who do their thing and inspire by their play. Like Bruno.
 

Luke1995

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Generally I would even though its a huge gamble. But I think this summer with lower costs on the continent there isnt the needs, just look at France and the likes of Soumare, Gabriel for example and they are relatively low fees. I actually think there are a lot of very good deals out there but we are fixated on Sancho and Grealish, rightly so in my opinion anyway as I think both would be great signings but the likes of Camavinga and Upamecano even would probably both be South of £50m and they are huge talents.

The gambles for me are more to do with potential outgoings. See a lot of people saying our deadwood is worth nothing, which I disagree with anyway....but then there are also the likes of DeGea, Dalot, Bailly, Fred for example who there are good reasons to sell and would command decent fees. I mean Fred/Bailly for example pays for Upamecano, Lingard/Dalot/Smalling pays for Camavinga. Sanchez pays.....all our incomings wages haha
Not much to disagree here, but just curious as to why you think it's a good idea to sell Fred. The cafe seems to think he improved massively this season.

I'm not sure if De Gea would be sold now for as much money as the club could've gotten five years ago and I don't mean because of the virus. It seems like his footballing value has diminished.

I think deals will be reached to send Smalling and Sanchez away, but it is highly likely Lingard stays. Not sure how big his salary is.
 

harms

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I think its a role a lot of people grow into. I don't think Vidic and Evra came in here as leaders. Now, it does help to have people surrounding to guide them. I mean, Scholes never struck me as a leader, but he commanded significant respect due to his consistency, work ethic, and calming playstyle, compared to the more vocal style of guys like Keane and Neville. Its hard to find someone who can walk-in from another team and immediately be respected as a leader at a club of this size. Unless its like Maguire, who was already a very experienced EPL player with a leadership role on a national team which we have a few guys on.
Vidić had been appointed Crena Zvezda's captain aged 21 & at the age 23, when he was bought by Spartak Moscow and lead them to a second place finish, everyone was praising him not only for his performance, but also for his leadership qualities and the way that he had organised their whole defense. 22 years old Evra was Monaco's vice-captain in their 2003/04 CL-runners up campaign. Not leaders my ass.
 

jesperjaap

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Not much to disagree here, but just curious as to why you think it's a good idea to sell Fred. The cafe seems to think he improved massively this season.

I'm not sure if De Gea would be sold now for as much money as the club could've gotten five years ago and I don't mean because of the virus. It seems like his footballing value has diminished.

I think deals will be reached to send Smalling and Sanchez away, but it is highly likely Lingard stays. Not sure how big his salary is.
Well in the case of Fred, he is a player we paid £52m for and would hold some value in the transfer market. He has improved massively this season, massively from absolutely abysmal to pretty good.

But I cant really see him playing the Matic role, neither can I see him playing the Fernandes role which kind of leaves him for the Pogba role as a squad player. I would also say pretty much the exact same thing about McTominay.

If as we hope we sign Grealish or somebody similar, they are also able to play the Pogba role though it isnt there main position and we also have Mjebri to step up for games next season, so potentially five players for one position (and that isnt even including Perreira and Lingard who could play it too).

I just dont think we would need more than McTominay as back up with Grealish/Mjebri as emergency or emerging option if we sign him or somebody similar.

But for the role of Matic.......we literally ONLY have Perreira to play there as he has done who I have no confidence in, or Garner who i sprobably going on loan, otherwise we have to alter the shape of our midfield to accomodate Fred or McTominay as replacements for him, which isnt ideal.

There are several very very good young defensive midfielders around at the moment and I think any of them would be under £50m and of far more value to our squad and more importantly, quite possibly our first eleven than Fred is. NOthing against Fred, though I think he has been a poor signing considering the fee, I do quite like him as a player but I dont see big value with him to us considering we despearetly need a quality centre back, desperately need depth in DM and also need far more depth attacking wise which is probably going to be a very big outlay, we need to sell to buy I feel

As for DeGea, doubt many buyers that woul dpay a decent fee, highly doubt we will sell him and not sure Henderson is ready or actually even the answer, because he is young and English his first season has been a bit overhyped I feel though he does of course have a lot of promise and wouldnt really do worse than DeGea anyway at the moment.
 

sparx99

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Actually, a summer window Rice, Grealish and Sancho could be perfect for us. Rice could cover DM and CB. Grealish could cover Pogba, Bruno and Rashford. Sancho would be first choice RW. Then the added benefits of Rice and Grealish being young leaders in their teams.
 

LoneStar

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I say bring back Roy Keane again. He’ll scare the opposition players to submission by just staring and shouting at them. In fact keep him near our goalpost, opposition would avoid it like the plague.
 

romufc

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Actually, a summer window Rice, Grealish and Sancho could be perfect for us. Rice could cover DM and CB. Grealish could cover Pogba, Bruno and Rashford. Sancho would be first choice RW. Then the added benefits of Rice and Grealish being young leaders in their teams.
I think this would be the perfect summer.

If we can get rid of 4 players and raise £50/60m it would also mean we do it for £150m nett spend.
 

Fortitude

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We have a few already, what we need imo is to win a trophy and then there will be a lot more confidence.
I'd like to believe this is so, but I'm not sure who you're looking at that instills that belief?
We need some excellent players. This leadership thing I think is a bit of a red herring these days. You don't need some angry sweary geezer dishing out abuse.
You need quality players who do their thing and inspire by their play. Like Bruno.
My idea of a leader is not blood and thunder roaring around the pitch, rather, someone who is able to rally troops, keep their heads up and play his game under immense pressure. Scholes was a leader for our last great side despite having hardly any traits of an actual captain, because he was the centralised hub everyone else could defer to and depend upon to keep his head and play his game the majority of the time.

We lose our nerve quickly as we are and nobody other than Bruno (I would say) remains steadfast in their own game when the pressure is truly on us to maintain control or put the opposition back in their excitable box. Opposed to that, if it's just a case of us working and working to create openings, we're pretty much fine and will eventually find a crack to exploit.

I think a player or two others can look to and gain confidence from to keep their nerve would do us wonders as this collective shitting of bricks for no particular reason is responsible for snatching defeats (and draws) from the jaws of victory.
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

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De Ligt seems a good young leader - in a position we need to strengthen as well. Also, Grealish seems like a bit of a leader on the pitch
 

sparx99

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An assertive Goalkeeper who shouts at the defence and comes off his line at corners would make a big difference.