Weak midfield

M4nu4Life

Full Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
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455
We appear to be targeting lots of defenders, but the midfield is being left alone again.

When was the last time we had a strong midfield? I don't think we have had one since Fergie left.

We struggle badly to maintain possession, transition the ball, and a big part of the problem is the midfield.

Casemiro is slowing down, and appears injury prone.
Eriksen, and Fernandes both play their best football at a number 10.
Surely, the highest priority needs to be a partner for Mainoo who can hit the ground running, and a younger player to provide depth in the area.

Until we get the midfield sorted, I cant see us having a good season.


Why aren't midfielders being priortised?
 
M4nu4Life said:
We appear to be targeting lots of defenders, but the midfield is being left alone again.

When was the last time we had a strong midfield? I don't think we have had one since Fergie left.

We struggle badly to maintain possession, transition the ball, and a big part of the problem is the midfield.

Casemiro is slowing down, and appears injury prone.
Eriksen, and Fernandes both play their best football at a number 10.
Surely, the highest priority needs to be a partner for Mainoo who can hit the ground running, and a younger player to provide depth in the area.

Until we get the midfield sorted, I cant see us having a good season.


Why aren't midfielders being priortised?
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It's a well known fact that we are targeting midfield replacements. We'll have to sell before we buy in midfield, the perfect world would be to move on Casemiro, Eriksen and replace with Neves and Ugarte. Let's wait and see what happens over the next few weeks on the midfield front.
 
You can only fix so much in one go. I'd rather we lock down our defence this window and lock down the midfield later, rather than try and spread our resources too thin over both now and realise we have to redo the lot later.

There's also the fact that we have about seven central midfielders in the first team squad right now with most on big money. Casemiro and Eriksen, in particular, are obstacles to us bringing in a top class midfielder while they're here. If/when they leave, you can expect that the noise around midfield signings to ramp up.

We will sign a midfielder this summer. It may be a loan to tide us over or it may be Manuel Ugarte, but in any case, our priorities seem are clear and the work is being done.
 
It’s a relief to know you have detailed inside knowledge on what the recruitment department and executive management are up to, and are ready to point out their mistakes this early into the window. It gives us a chance. It really sucked being in the dark about our plans for the season. Thanks for giving us the low down on all the internal mistakes we are making. Until your post I had been fooled into thinking that Berrada, Ashworth, Wilcox, Vivell, Ten Hag, and our global scouting system knew how to assess and build a squad, and were perhaps not releasing all the transfer targets and internal deliberations to the public. The naivety of me. It’s a huge comfort knowing you are now on the case. That’s what I love about this forum, it’s a veritable hotbed of critical thinking and reasoned analysis. A valued treasure trove of well sourced and verified inside information, and scarcely speculative, knee jerk, or remotely negative.
 
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We do need to strengthen in midfield, but I think ETH sees a lot of our problems in that area as coming from a back 4 who can’t play how he wants. The massive gap between midfield and defence was a huge problem last season. You could argue that was due to his tactical choices being wrong but he probably thinks that buying CBs who can play higher up the pitch and move the ball better will solve that problem and make our midfield look a lot better. Whether it will or not remains to be seen!
 
This is why I believe our squad is the weakest in many many years. We have gaps all over the pitch, and two players that used to run the midfield for us 2 years ago are nothing short of a deadwood. We've spent 400m over two summer windows and still managed to be in worse situation that we've been in before ETH joined (not saying it's his fault).

There are literally two bright lights and those are academy players our manager has stumbled upon. What a mess we are right now.
 
I think we will look again for creative solutions for our midfield, which will take time. Ugarte would be a great start though
 
didz said:
You can only fix so much in one go. I'd rather we lock down our defence this window and lock down the midfield later, rather than try and spread our resources too thin over both now and realise we have to redo the lot later.

There's also the fact that we have about seven central midfielders in the first team squad right now with most on big money. Casemiro and Eriksen, in particular, are obstacles to us bringing in a top class midfielder while they're here. If/when they leave, you can expect that the noise around midfield signings to ramp up.

We will sign a midfielder this summer. It may be a loan to tide us over or it may be Manuel Ugarte, but in any case, our priorities seem are clear and the work is being done.
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Personally I think a strong midfield allows you to get away with weaknesses in attack and defence. Going past our midfield was easy and we conceded so many last season.
 
All in good time. Defence was a priority so we don’t suffer another season like we did. With a few exits on the horizon i.e Casemiro and Eriksen there will be space for additions.
 
Matt007a said:
We do need to strengthen in midfield, but I think ETH sees a lot of our problems in that area as coming from a back 4 who can’t play how he wants. The massive gap between midfield and defence was a huge problem last season. You could argue that was due to his tactical choices being wrong but he probably thinks that buying CBs who can play higher up the pitch and move the ball better will solve that problem and make our midfield look a lot better. Whether it will or not remains to be seen!
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If we really want to fix that issue we need to look at the front line first - if more advanced players take themselves out of the game defensively the teammates behind them are really forced to adopt balanced positions and defend reactively, with a focus on delaying the attack.
 
After we are done signing three CB's and a fullback, we will move onto the midfield. Expecting around four new midfield signings, minimum.
 
sherrinford said:
If we really want to fix that issue we need to look at the front line first - if more advanced players take themselves out of the game defensively the teammates behind them are really forced to adopt balanced positions and defend reactively, with a focus on delaying the attack.
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I agree to some degree. We have a total of 1 attacking player that is suited for high pressing and that is Antony. The rest are either poor at it (Bruno, Hojlund, Garnacho - even if they run a lot) or not even bothered (we all know who that is). Our high pressing is not effective, and that means we're easy to play through and once you get past the first pressing wave, it's a highway to our goal.
The defensive line being low adds to that problem, but the biggest problem was our main ball carrier (Shaw) and main ball-playing-progressor (Martinez) have been available for a total of 5 minutes last season.
If the coaching staff knew how to use midfield to progress the ball we might have mitigated those issues, but it doesn't seem like we have progressed that much since Ole days (if at all?).

We could not play from the back --> we went for long balls or high risk passess --> we lost the ball a lot --> we had to defend in transition what is probably our biggest weakness (considering the players we have at disposal and tactical setup). In that context, getting a CB makes sense but it's not a higher priority than a midfield partner for Mainoo. Only once we get those 2 we can actually START BUILDING a team.
 
flappyjay said:
Personally I think a strong midfield allows you to get away with weaknesses in attack and defence. Going past our midfield was easy and we conceded so many last season.
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And an athletic defense provides defensive support to the midfield by compressing the space and giving players in the middle less ground to cover. A technically assured defense also supports the midfield in possession. A solid rest defense ensures that when attacks break down we win back possession and keeps the pressure on, leading to more chances.

It all fits together.
 
Honestly, all areas of the team need to be revamped. If we're starting with defense, then thats great. Its ridiculous to line up against the likes of city with Evans and Kambwala in defence, let alone finishing the season with Casemiro there. A solid defense will make us harder to play against and beat. If we manage to bring in a DM like Ugarte as well, then the new spine starts looking solid.
 
Going by the reports, it seems like the Ugarte deal is probably going to happen so there's our partner for Mainoo.

It feels like we're focusing on our defence this window (at least two CB's, a LB and a DM) alongside one attacker (Zirkzee). Any more that that seems to either rely on how much money we bring through sales or will have to wait until next season.
 
M4nu4Life said:
We appear to be targeting lots of defenders, but the midfield is being left alone again.

When was the last time we had a strong midfield? I don't think we have had one since Fergie left.

We struggle badly to maintain possession, transition the ball, and a big part of the problem is the midfield.

Casemiro is slowing down, and appears injury prone.
Eriksen, and Fernandes both play their best football at a number 10.
Surely, the highest priority needs to be a partner for Mainoo who can hit the ground running, and a younger player to provide depth in the area.

Until we get the midfield sorted, I cant see us having a good season.


Why aren't midfielders being priortised?
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We're signing Ugarte..
 
I also find it strange that there's talk we could sign as many as 3 centre backs but only one midfielder has really been linked. Especially as we're likely going to be without Casemiro, Eriksen and Amrabat from last season's squad. Ugarte seems to be the one chosen to replace Casemiro. I wonder whether the club earmark some of the young players to step up... i.e. Finley McAllister, Toby Collyer, Jack Fletcher maybe? It does feel a more experienced player too short but perhaps the plan is for Martinez to step into DM occasionally. Also, if we sign Kadioglu, he's been known to play in CM, AM and DM.
 
Fernandes
Mount
Amad

Ugarte Mainoo
Amrabat Mount
Casemiro Eriksen/McTominay


We will have the numbers if we sign Ugarte. The issue is depth of quality. Fernandes, Mainoo and Ugarte would be the first choice 3.

I'd have thought we'd have to sell 2 players out of Casemiro/Amrabat/Eriksen/McTominay

I'd hope it's Casemiro and Eriksen leaving. They have no long term future at the club.
 
Totally agree, OP. And even the midfield targets appear to be DMs. We need two midfielders - a Scholes type, that can pass without outside of the foot as well as inside, and Carrick type. City are using Rodri like Carrick was by Sir Alex. I know Ole wanted Longstaff of Newcastle to be that, but couldn't get the deal done. I think that's why Erik wanted Rabiot last summer.

For a Scholes-like, we could've jumped for Brozovic. Vitinha is doing well at PSG. Getting this type of player will stop Bruno having to drop deep so often and gassing out by the 80th minute from so much running box-to-box.
 
Sell before buy. Yes, midfield is weak but we still have Case, Eriksen, Mainoo, McT, Mount,Bruno and Mjebri.
 
Ugarte is coming. Mainoo and Bruno around him. The reserves arent the best although Eriksen did well in Bruno's role for Denmark, if he sticks to playing there he might be useful
 
Does Collyer have the talent to break out? @top1whoisman

I think it'll be Casemiro/Amrabat, Ugarte, Mainoo, Mount, Bruno and Eriksen/someone on loan.

This season we'd get 2 CB's, 1 LB, 1 CM and 1 or 2 attacking players.
 
Yup. Midfielders are pivotal in helping you control a game. Unfortunately I can’t remember the last ‘complete’ midfield we had.
 
This is what I was thinking, our current midfield is mediocre. An injury or two and we're fecked. It never feels like we have a manager who cares enough about midfield to buy any decent players.
 
Insanity said:
Does Collyer have the talent to break out? @top1whoisman

I think it'll be Casemiro/Amrabat, Ugarte, Mainoo, Mount, Bruno and Eriksen/someone on loan.

This season we'd get 2 CB's, 1 LB, 1 CM and 1 or 2 attacking players.
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That's a really unbalanced midfield I don't know what it's trying to do.
 
Insanity said:
Does Collyer have the talent to break out? @top1whoisman

I think it'll be Casemiro/Amrabat, Ugarte, Mainoo, Mount, Bruno and Eriksen/someone on loan.

This season we'd get 2 CB's, 1 LB, 1 CM and 1 or 2 attacking players.
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My humble opinion is that he is a tidy, technical midfielder who is a reliable passer.

That being said I don’t see any standout abilities in him. If he can become more aggressive out of possession and more ambitious in possession, who knows.

Kind of a Garner light. Similar type but not as good.
 
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Phil said:
Yup. Midfielders are pivotal in helping you control a game. Unfortunately I can’t remember the last ‘complete’ midfield we had.
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I think we have had some good ones for paper but none have worked out on the field.

Matic, Pogba, Herrera Blind, Fellaini - was a decent selection, some good to excellent players in their prime and with different qualities.
 
Matt007a said:
We do need to strengthen in midfield, but I think ETH sees a lot of our problems in that area as coming from a back 4 who can’t play how he wants. The massive gap between midfield and defence was a huge problem last season. You could argue that was due to his tactical choices being wrong but he probably thinks that buying CBs who can play higher up the pitch and move the ball better will solve that problem and make our midfield look a lot better. Whether it will or not remains to be seen!
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I agree with your conclusions on ETH's thoughts here.

Unfortunately, I think his assessment is way off the mark.

Even if we get better ball playing CBs, and defenders capable of playing higher and stepping into midfield, it still requires at least 1 athletic, mobile, defensively disciplined, progressive passing midfielder to Anchor things.

We don't have that player. And my expectation is teams will continue to waltz through our midfield until we find that player.
 
mintyred said:
That's a really unbalanced midfield I don't know what it's trying to do.
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Why is it unbalanced?
- You have got a DM in Casemiro
- Ugarte is a terrier type B2B midfield who'll play as the more defensive pivot.
- Mainoo and Mount can be the ball carriers.
- One of Bruno/Mount/Eriksen would be the #10 options.

It's not the best but it's not unbalanced, imo.

top1whoisman said:
My humble opinion is that he is a tidy, technical midfielder who is a reliable passer.

That being said I don’t see any standout abilities in him. If he can become more aggressive out of possession and more ambitious in possession, who knows.
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Thanks, buddy.

I got excited for a minute given that ETH gave him the same kind of encouragement he gave Mainoo after the League cup final.
 
Insanity said:
Why is it unbalanced?
- You have got a DM in Casemiro
- Ugarte is a terrier type B2B midfield who'll play as the more defensive pivot.
- Mainoo and Mount can be the ball carriers.
- One of Bruno/Mount/Eriksen would be the #10 options.

It's not the best but it's not unbalanced, imo.



Thanks, buddy.

I got excited for a minute given that ETH gave him the same kind of encouragement he gave Mainoo after the League cup final.
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Yeah it seems EtH has faith in him, which is good enough for me.
 
top1whoisman said:
Yeah it seems EtH has faith in him, which is good enough for me.
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We saw last season that this midfield isn't balanced at all and gets dog-walked by newly promoted teams. Are you suffering from amnesia? Casemiro is for sale and past his best, Eriksen is past his best, Bruno doesn't stay in position, Mount can't play midfield well, he's an attacking player.
 
mintyred said:
We saw last season that this midfield isn't balanced at all and gets dog-walked by newly promoted teams. Are you suffering from amnesia? Casemiro is for sale and past his best, Eriksen is past his best, Bruno doesn't stay in position, Mount can't play midfield well, he's an attacking player.
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What the feck are you ranting to me for? Never said we don’t need midfielders. Got asked a question about Collyer and I replied. Also happy to be proven wrong and Collyer filling one of those slots in rotation.
 
mintyred said:
We saw last season that this midfield isn't balanced at all and gets dog-walked by newly promoted teams. Are you suffering from amnesia? Casemiro is for sale and past his best, Eriksen is past his best, Bruno doesn't stay in position, Mount can't play midfield well, he's an attacking player.
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Jesus F-ing Christ! Calm down, kid. It's just a football forum.

I would say last season's midfield set-up was more of a culprit than the midfielders we had. We asked them to do a job for which they didn't either have the skills or the legs.

Yeah, eventually we should upgrade on all of Case, Eriksen & McT, but not it may not be possible to get all the personnel we want in one window.

Ugarte would be a good addition to play alongside Mainoo with Bruno in front of them as our primary midfield set-up. Case/Amrabat would be the DM options for late in the games or as options when Ugarte is out. Hopefully, Eriksen would be moved on and we'd get another option to play when Mainoo is out or needs rest. Mount can play that position in certain games and can be a back-up for Bruno. It's not as catastrophic as you are making it sound.

Also, if you can't reply calmly, don't bother.
 
Insanity said:
Jesus F-ing Christ! Calm down, kid. It's just a football forum.

I would say last season's midfield set-up was more of a culprit than the midfielders we had. We asked them to do a job for which they didn't either have the skills or the legs.

Yeah, eventually we should upgrade on all of Case, Eriksen & McT, but not it may not be possible to get all the personnel we want in one window.

Ugarte would be a good addition to play alongside Mainoo with Bruno in front of them as our primary midfield set-up. Case/Amrabat would be the DM options for late in the games or as options when Ugarte is out. Hopefully, Eriksen would be moved on and we'd get another option to play when Mainoo is out or needs rest. Mount can play that position in certain games and can be a back-up for Bruno. It's not as catastrophic as you are making it sound.

Also, if you can't reply calmly, don't bother.
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Imagine telling someone to calm down when you're reading it in an aggressive way lamo. Scared much.

Anyway, that's a good set up for a team who wants another solid 8th-place finish. If you're happy with that, more strength to you.
 
top1whoisman said:
What the feck are you ranting to me for? Never said we don’t need midfielders. Got asked a question about Collyer and I replied. Also happy to be proven wrong and Collyer filling one of those slots in rotation.
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There is no rant, you guys are full of anxiety. If you want to be proven wrong then all you have to do is look at last season where basically the same midfield got eaten alive for an entire season. This is why I'm concerned about your memory. Football fans are like goldfish and can't remember more than the last 30 seconds.
 
mintyred said:
There is no rant, you guys are full of anxiety. If you want to be proven wrong then all you have to do is look at last season where basically the same midfield got eaten alive for an entire season. This is why I'm concerned about your memory. Football fans are like goldfish and can't remember more than the last 30 seconds.
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I actually do suffer from anxiety, but I don't need diagnosis or reminders from strangers. Thanks anyway.

Again, where exactly did I say we don't need to sign midfielders? Or that the current set of midfielders is good enough.
 
Agreed. I've made my peace with the fact that this manager will never prioritise central midfield and ball retention in middle areas. Not much we can do about it, really.
 
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