What’s the difference between our honeymoon period and now?

[Denis79]

Back then I've been saying that they've downed their tools to feck Mourinho off and just upped their game massively to show that they can be better without him. People were obviously saying that it's bullshit and that the end of the season blip was down to Mourinho's shit fitness preparation and that the players are gassed.

So I wonder, what's the matter now? For me it's just that they played to their 110% post Mourinho to show everybody that he was the dick (the easy games at start helped to build the momentum), whereas after Ole got extension they've gotten back to their complacent dicks state that they've retained ever after. The club's extending contracts with shit and average players who haven't merited it so why even bother.

I've also said that there will be no hiding after Mou's gone. Well guess I was wrong given that Ole's out of his depth too so the blame can be laid on the manager once again. This is the culture and mentality that's spread throughout the club ever since Fergie left.

I have to admit this is very possible. Many of our players think they are better than they actually are.

 

[edcunited1878]

Quality of the trifecta of Matic, Herrera and Pogba and when Ole took over, it was a relatively soft run of matches.

Cardiff (A), Huddersfield (H), Bournemouth (H), Newcastle (A), Spurs (A), Brighton (H), Burnley (H), Leicester (A), Fulham (A), Liverpool (H), Palace (A), Southampton (A)...then came Arsenal (A) - the first league loss under Ole for 3 months running.

Ole put square pegs in square places, etc. Then they lost their legs and lost matches when it was crunch time. Lost to Wolves away, beat West Ham, but then got embarrassed by Everton away, losing to City but then drew at Chelsea at home was devastating.

Matic becomes one year older, Hererra isn't replaced, Lukaku not replaced, Sanchez not replaced and a switch to two central mids leaves a big reliance on Martial, Rashford, James, Lingard, Pereria, Mata and Greenwood to generate 50+ goals between them at very minimum.

Since March 2, 2019 when United scored 3 goals against Southampton, United have only score more than 2 goals in a single PL match 1 time (4 v Chelsea) in the past 16 PL matches under Ole. 6 straight weeks this campaign with 1 goal or less (clean sheeted against West Ham).

 

[RedMilo]

Herrera was a massive part of getting best out of Pogba in particular, not replacing him was poor. Injuries including to him particularly, coincided with our run ending last season. I also think by letting Lukaku & Sanchez both go, meant we are reliant on Rashford & co stepping up to become the main act, and he hasn't done it to be frank. Lingard has been poor in every game so far & Martial had a positive start but got injured. These are the main reasons.

 

[Relevated]

I believe that period was way too long to say that ole deserved no credit.

 

[acnumber9]

Formation and press.

Anyone ignoring the change in formation and subsequent lack of high press has probably made their mind up it's certain players faults.

We were shit long before he changed formation.

 

[Nucks]

I have to admit this is very possible. Many of our players think they are better than they actually are.

This is kind of my problem with Social media. If Ronaldo, Messi, and other legitimate all world players want to feck around on social media like a bunch of primadonnas, they've earned it(not that they do, but if they did). When the likes of Rashford and Lingard and scores of others from other teams do it, it's like, you're putting the cart in front of the horse ya goofs. If the team was successful, I wouldn't even mind it so much, but it begs the question "where are their heads" when they put so much time towards social media, and it's not even that they are goofing off. It's that they are taking time out of goofing off, to let the world know they are goofing off, for the sake of look at mememememe.

Yea, I'm probably coming across as an old man, but twitter isn't paying your bills, it isn't making you wealthy, football is, you can at least act like when you shit the bed, you shat the bed and you're embarrassed, and not rub it in the fans noses like you don't give a feck.

 

[shamans]

Ole is a decent manager but it seems hes not good enough to steer a ship with troubles.

 

[Majima]

The reality that Solksjaer is not even a PL level coach happened. The more time he has had to influence the team, the worse we have progressively become. Which is a damning indictment on his coaching skills.

He's been here over 9 months now, if he was a decent coach you would expect the opposite to be gradually happening.

As a team, we are naive, fearful & incompetent. All traits that mirror the manager and coaching team.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I think it was basically a brief period where the players had Mourinho’s coaching but without the negative personal influence José had become. So it clicked. It was like Mourinho had to go for them to play the way he wanted.

Bingo - completely agree.

 

[Denis79]

This is kind of my problem with Social media. If Ronaldo, Messi, and other legitimate all world players want to feck around on social media like a bunch of primadonnas, they've earned it(not that they do, but if they did). When the likes of Rashford and Lingard and scores of others from other teams do it, it's like, you're putting the cart in front of the horse ya goofs. If the team was successful, I wouldn't even mind it so much, but it begs the question "where are their heads" when they put so much time towards social media, and it's not even that they are goofing off. It's that they are taking time out of goofing off, to let the world know they are goofing off, for the sake of look at mememememe.

Yea, I'm probably coming across as an old man, but twitter isn't paying your bills, it isn't making you wealthy, football is, you can at least act like when you shit the bed, you shat the bed and you're embarrassed, and not rub it in the fans noses like you don't give a feck.

Although It's human nature to defend yourself and I understand why they sometimes do it, I still get annoyed when they have a prolonged period of poor performances and they post on social media the % of players who make it in the PL or post stats comparing themselves to some of our greatest players ever as if we don't don't watch the games and see how poor they have performed. This is the reason I said that they think they are better than they are. Instead of working hard and proving us wrong they post some shit to tell us how great they actually are and that the critique is unfounded.

Ole has had a bad run now and might not be the right man for the job but I honestly believe some of our players are rotten and aren't helping his case one bit.

 

[The Dodfather]

Was about to post something defending the players a little, saying getting rid of the toxic atmosphere Mourinho had created lifted everyone but once that initial bump wore off they maybe realised it wasn't all him and they just maybe weren't that good, causing confidence levels to drop. But then I remembered the performances dropped off a cliff pretty much the moment Solskjaer got the job permanently and I'm not so sure.

 

[red4ever 79]

4-3-3 instead of this 2 holding midfielders crap

I dont understand why he doesnt play
McTom Fred
Pogba

Instead he carries on with Lingard in the number 10 and Rashford up top, and this is the reason why the results are dire and eventually he will lose his job because of the faith he placed in those two. Pogba in the number 10 with Greenwood in front of him would be much more dangerous

 

[friendlytramp]

Confidence and Pogba

 

[In Rainbows]

Was about to post something defending the players a little, saying getting rid of the toxic atmosphere Mourinho had created lifted everyone but once that initial bump wore off they maybe realised it wasn't all him and they just maybe weren't that good, causing confidence levels to drop. But then I remembered the performances dropped off a cliff pretty much the moment Solskjaer got the job permanently and I'm not so sure.

The performances were already dropping before he got the job permanently. It's just, that is when the results dropped.

 

[The Dodfather]

The performances were already dropping before he got the job permanently. It's just, that is when the results dropped.

True I guess, it just seems odd that after what should have been such a hugely confidence boosting win things took such a nosedive. Might just be coincidence or fatigue, was probably a combination of things really, but it does feel like the players took their foot off the gas a little.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Simple. It was a honeymoon period of new manager bounce & now with more influence from Ole we’ve got worse.

Tells you all you need to know about how talents as a manager

 

[Dec9003]

I think when it started to go sour last season it was due to the likes of Matic and Herrera getting injured/breaking down.
We had a really solid midfield that had talent to go with it, this masked many of the sides deficient e.g. The leaky defence and low scoring strikers. letting go of Herrera is another fine example of why Woodward has no place running a football club.
Then in the summer the squad was quite rightly gutted, but as every man and his dog can see wasn't re-bolstered with talented midfielders and forwards.
If we can get the next couple of transfer windows right we'll be miles better off Iregardless of who is the manager.

 

[wolvored]

I think what happened was Woody said after sacking Mourinho that the interim manager would supply fun for the rest of the season. He brought Ole in expecting quite a few high scoring games, before getting Pocc in the end of the season. When Ole had no fear of losing he played all out attack as the results didnt matter. A nice result of this was we were playing better and winning. When he got the job permanently he then had to think of the bigger picture, results, not conceding, his job on the line etc. This then worked to the detriment of him and the side. The tactics change being one big difference. The defensive signings. The move away from gung ho to a more slow pragmatic build up all show this.

 

[Revaulx]

I think when it started to go sour last season it was due to the likes of Matic and Herrera getting injured/breaking down.
We had a really solid midfield that had talent to go with it, this masked many of the sides deficient e.g. The leaky defence and low scoring strikers. letting go of Herrera is another fine example of why Woodward has no place running a football club.
Then in the summer the squad was quite rightly gutted, but as every man and his dog can see wasn't re-bolstered with talented midfielders and forwards.
If we can get the next couple of transfer windows right we'll be miles better off Iregardless of who is the manager.

Matic especially. He’d been crap for ages before Jose was sacked but was suddenly rejuvenated after he’d gone.

Having him and Herrera in beast mode not only enabled Pogba to be free to attack; it also enabled the central defenders to play much higher and the full backs to push far forward. An unusually feisty Michael Owen pointed this out in his post-Cardiff punditry; I’ve searched but can’t find it.

 

[Dec9003]

Matic especially. He’d been crap for ages before Jose was sacked but was suddenly rejuvenated after he’d gone.

Having him and Herrera in beast mode not only enabled Pogba to be free to attack; it also enabled the central defenders to play much higher and the full backs to push far forward. An unusually feisty Michael Owen pointed this out in his post-Cardiff punditry; I’ve searched but can’t find it.

Agreed mate, Matic was one of our better players during Oles good run, but he's probably too old for it to have lasted.
I think the difference in the midfield shows in the result vs Cardiff and the capitulation against Everton.
Thinking about it, we've struggled to find a consistently good holding
Midfielder in all the time Fergie has been gone.
We relied on Carrick well into his 30's.

 

[charlenefan]

The performances were already dropping before he got the job permanently. It's just, that is when the results dropped.

I dont think this needs to be pointed out, even the best teams in the league dont play well every week - Liverpool haven't been amazing in most of their games this season but have still won all of them

 

[Russky14]

I dont think this needs to be pointed out, even the best teams in the league dont play well every week - Liverpool haven't been amazing in most of their games this season but have still won all of them

Have to agree here. The performances albeit poor in reality 2 missed pens and 3 to 5 points lost. Error v Arsenal & 2 more gone, error v Soton & 2 more. So we could 5 to 9 points better off having played pap.

The real issue is scoring goals & against the teams so far a 2nd goal would have won the match, so it is personnel, formation or both. Although, he needs to go (Pogba) & he was shocking apart form a pass & that curler v the Gunners, at the moment I have to agree with an earlier post he needs to sit in behind a striker & that striker for the moment is Greenwood until Martial is back (with McTominay & Fred as holding midfiled). Lingaard should stick to his clothes range end of. As for Rashford no real progression (coaching? - not sure). At best impact sub or wide right.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

He's changed his tactics & is far more defensive & cautious now.

 

[In Rainbows]

I dont think this needs to be pointed out, even the best teams in the league dont play well every week - Liverpool haven't been amazing in most of their games this season but have still won all of them

That wasn't the point. There was a clear difference in instruction well before he became the permanent manager. The performances were consistently awful too. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

[Ban]

Maybe we should get back Jose for a few weeks and again sack him for a new honeymoon?

 

[El Jefe]

We just played our hearts out which led to confidence and a shit hot period of form, it was nothing more complex than that. While we went on a nice run for 14 games the truth is our very good period was more like 7 games for the other half we got good results but were really riding out luck.

So to put it simply it was a purple patch. Ole has not come close to any of those performances since apart from the second half vs Chelsea in the opening game of the season. He fluked that period, there is no hope that comes back especially since we are weaker up front and in midfield.

 

[Revaulx]

Agreed mate, Matic was one of our better players during Oles good run, but he's probably too old for it to have lasted.
I think the difference in the midfield shows in the result vs Cardiff and the capitulation against Everton.
Thinking about it, we've struggled to find a consistently good holding Midfielder in all the time Fergie has been gone.
We relied on Carrick well into his 30's.

Hargreaves being a crock didn’t help.

I’m not even sure Matic was playing as an out and out holding midfielder in either of his good spells for us. When Ole arrived Herrera was doing most of the dirty work, letting him do a box to box job. Even when he was playing alongside Pogba in a two when he first arrived, he was getting forward a hell of a lot.

 

[Sandikan]

Everyone knows about the new manager bounce. But that doesn't normally last as long as Ole's did.

Why it ended, seemed to be down to simply running out of energy and legs, with muscular injuries kicking in.

Why he can't recreate it even a little is probably loads of reasons. His star men all being in poor form at the same time is a huge reason why not, as is not doing enough surgery to the squad.

 

[momo83]

Practically the same players. When we had that first match post-Mourinho, we actually looked like we were playing football. You could tell there was confidence, fight, and dare I say, talent, all from the same players that we want dropped or sold these days.

What can we hypothesize for the return to form under pre-sack-Mourinho, arguably worse now?

Players happy to see the back of Mourinho.

Team playing 433. Herrera in CM. Lukaku while not contributing to good football scored goals in games where we didn’t play well.

Pogba was playing very well, was it because he was playing further forward, was it because he was a part of a 3, was it because he was auditioning for a move in the summer?

 

[BombayBadBoy]

I remember seeing Mike Phelan being really active on the touchline during that crazy run of games. (In some occations where they would both be on there, Ole would like like the understudy) It almost felt as though Phelan was the one in charge.
Then right after Ole was appointed, we immediately and I mean, really abruptly looked different in our games from there on. It looked like tactics changed a bit but we regressed from there on.
It was a strange thing to watch; If anyone watches the last game of Ole's care-taking period and first (maybe first couple) game after he was appointed you'll see what I mean.

 

[Bestietom]

This is kind of my problem with Social media. If Ronaldo, Messi, and other legitimate all world players want to feck around on social media like a bunch of primadonnas, they've earned it(not that they do, but if they did). When the likes of Rashford and Lingard and scores of others from other teams do it, it's like, you're putting the cart in front of the horse ya goofs. If the team was successful, I wouldn't even mind it so much, but it begs the question "where are their heads" when they put so much time towards social media, and it's not even that they are goofing off. It's that they are taking time out of goofing off, to let the world know they are goofing off, for the sake of look at mememememe.

Yea, I'm probably coming across as an old man, but twitter isn't paying your bills, it isn't making you wealthy, football is, you can at least act like when you shit the bed, you shat the bed and you're embarrassed, and not rub it in the fans noses like you don't give a feck.

And these are the ones asking for double their pay. Cheek.

 

[Needham]

The difference is that every team we played during our honeymoon period had an off day.

 

[Amerifan]

Two different jobs.

As caretaker his job was to see the season out, entertain the fans, and improve the mood in the dressing room. Results were on Jose. In other words, babysit.

As permanent his job is to address problems, impose a style, identify transfer candidates, and so on to build for the future. In other words, manage.

When Ole started managing he encountered what Jose was complaining about: the squad wasn’t good enough. Which brings us to today.

 

[Badunk]

Our players are simply not good enough. I remember saying it when Moyes took over, when LVG took over and when Mourinho took over. If you look at our great teams, or any other great teams, their players are CONSISTENT. They give you 8/10 performances across the board MINIMUM, week in, week out, for YEARS. Who, in the past 6-7 years, at Manchester United has done that? The only player who you could offer is De Gea. Everyone else shows flashes of brilliance once in a while. There was a time when you could pick any player in the United team and they would be, at the very least, in the top 3 players in that position in the league. More often than not, they were in the top 3 in Europe or the world. Sometimes they were arguably the best player in the world in that position. But nowadays, we reward dross. We give contract extensions to crap players that nobody else wants. We hang on to players because they might one day fulfill some sort of potential, but who are so inconsistent that it defies logic.

That's not to say that better coaching and management wouldn't make a difference, because it would. Ole came out of the blue, did brilliantly initially, then our reactive board gave him a contract before he had shown consistency for any length of time. It's what the main problem has been. No plan, no long-term strategy, no consistency. I'd dearly love to believe that we have seen the light and that there are things going on behind the scenes that we're not privy to. I'm happy that certain players have been moved on and I'm happy with the new recruits. I'm happy with young players being given the opportunity to play more consistently. But I'm so pissed off at the new contracts for players who have let us down so many times that I look at the honeymoon period as the typical new manager bounce and that we've reverted back to type. Ole was devil-may-care when he arrived. There was no pressure. The players felt no pressure. The football flowed and the results followed. As soon as he got the job proper, the results and the performances fell away. The pressure mounted and I don't think he's coped very well. He looks stressed. The outlook for him isn't good, I think.

 

[bondsname]

I think the players have it way too comfortable. We up our game when we play the big teams but they feel comfortable and relaxed when we play the smaller teams. They expect things to go easily, that they will easily outclass them just because we are Man United.

The thing is we have to put in the same effort versus the smaller teams as we do the big teams. When for example Bournemouth comes to our ground they give it their all, the same way we give it our all when we face a top 6 team. It's the games were we are expected to win that we lose, it's those games we see lack of effort and frustration in the team.

It feels like the majority of our squad take this team for granted. We have to mix things up, employ new staff that will bring new and fresh energy to the whole organisation, bring in new players with right mentality (which Ole has done a good job with so far), everything has to change because changing the general atmosphere at your work place is more difficult than it sounds.

The issue is also lack of quality of course, no matter how hard working and determined these lads get we won't win the league, but we should definitely get top 4.

 

[AlwaysRed66]

Pressure. It is far easier being a temporary manager than a permanent one.

 

[Cloud7]

We've gotten erectile dysfunction after the honeymoon.

 

[brownyorkshireman]

Think it was more down to Ole not really changing much post-mourinho. Just added a man going forward to support the counter attacks but we still played deep and low-block. People thought we were playing magnificent attacking football but in reality we were still a deep-lying counter attacking side. The wolves game was crucial as it was the first time a team just dropped deep, gave us the ball and countered us constantly. When we were exposed as a poor team at breaking teams down ever since that game almost every team we faced have just sat deep and counter attacked us.

Ole has a choice now; either accept we can't play attacking football and go back to the style as before and be a defensive counter attacking side or stick to what he's trying now. Will be a long painful season but do think eventually Ole will buy the type of players for his system (Maddison, Sancho etc) and ship off the players struggling.

Guardiola did the same in first season, played a type of football his team just couldn't play-and eventually got rid of the week players and replaced them with players able to play his system effectively, same for Klopp.

 

[R'hllor]

He, backed by EW, sold out our performances from first few games the moment we got back into top 4 race, EW started drooling again for CL money, while Ole saw it as way to get perma job based on good results. Since that moment our performances started dropping while we still were getting results and then performances went in minus and results went to shit with it and here we are. I mean he admitted making a switch more or less in an interview.

So all that notion that things went to shit since PSG is bull, it started way way before that. People making out like we outplayed PSG that night or some nonsense.

From players pov, well, majority of that squad is/was bunch of pricks anyway, maybe they gave it a bit more at the start, maybe they were hyped for Ole at first until they started knowing him more, dunno, which is funny because some came out with support for a manager to get a full job at the time, Lingard with his video and so on.

 

[glazed]

He didn't rotate. The players got tired. Then they got injured.