So we ignore what happened before?
What’s the reasons for keeping Ole?
- Thread starter Rafaeldagold
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Yeah, exactly what happened. If he got us CL football I would understand but really we went in such a bad form that could be only rivalled by Brighton and Huddersfield.
It's not like other clubs haven't jumped the gun and appointed a caretaker manager who had a run of good games. He has the job now so we will have to get on with it, but his signings will be either the making or the end of him.
Don't we need to consider both before and after?
Solari and Lopetegui would’ve been fired on the spot if they let the club go into their worst form since 57 years.
Since he was appointed he got us as good as Brighton and Huddersfield - we scored same amount of goals as them.
If he is hired on the basis of 10 games why can’t he be sacked on the basis of the same amount of games?
I’m willing to give it a try, after four painful appointments already it’s time to come to terms with the fact it’s our players who are the problem.
As separate set of results? if yes then why?
Wouldn't it be fairer to look at the entire record rather than just one set?
Think the players are the problem to an extent, but unfortunately I think we will be keeping the problem players who have stolen a living at United for years. Yes if the likes of Lukaku and Sanchez go it will help, but if we start the season with the same back 4 it will be same old again.
The hiring of Ole was actually a very Madrid-like move. An unusually large proportion of Real Madrid managers have a major connection to the club - the last time a manager there was hired without a connection was Ancelotti in 2013.
Why are looking at only one set of results, why not consider all since he's been here? I know it suits your agenda but its rather embarrassing to see someone post the same rubbish again and again without looking at everything. Well, tbh I am expecting a bit much from someone who said our winning run was only due to our players and bad run was on Ole (still the dumbest comment I've seen here).
To sack a manager after a bad run. Luckily we're not Real Madrid or a club run by complete idiots who hold this view, fortunately our owners are just idiots rather than complete idiots.
Don’t see another manager making any difference in that scenario, at least I know Ole’s hearts in the right place unlike the last one who was only in it for himself.
I know. It's absolutely ridiculous. There are only 4 places and 4 trophies up for grabs each season with 6 top teams and another 3 or 4 coming up on the outside to challenge for them. Two top teams are going to 'fail' every season. Imagine not winning the title for nearly 30 years?? But the Dippers are still there after years of mediocrity and now on the rise again. It seems to be Arsenal's turn now. These things happen.
I just hope these idiots don't get on Solskjaer's case this season. It's going to take time.
Indeed, If the likes of smalling,jones,young,mata,lingard etc are starting regularly then he'll be sacked for the same mistakes made by Jose. Hopefully he isn't as stupid as jose was in keeping them in the first team.
To achieve what? What if he isn't the right man and we persist with him for years? Has he proved that he has the ability to create a great team? Where?
That doesn’t really answer my question mate.
do you think he is closer to another Zidane, Pep or Klopp or Di Matteo, Moyes and all?I’m not. I said if we are looking at appointing him after 10 games why shouldn’t we be looking to sack him after the same set of criteria - 10 games? Can you answer me this?
I’ve also said that he should be given credit for the winning run but also held accountant for the losing run.
Also I’ve not said it black and white but responding to other posters who conveniently skated the players for the losing run but also didn’t give them credit for the winning one. Of course that suits your agenda
Where are Real now and where we are and who are really the ones that have taken moronic decisions in the last 6 years?
So we give Real and Barca credit for appointing rookies but completely ignore them being ruthless to the same rookies if they don’t see anything even in short notice (couple of months)? Isn’t that a bit of facetious thing to do?
Would Liverpool give Klopp time if it wasn’t for his work at Dortmund (the credentials that got him the job in the first place)?
If the rumours about the RB position are correct it is a start, but I worry that if we do not get the CB player we are in for we might just do with what we have and be in the same sinking boat again.
Everybody was drooling over Poch but he's achieved nothing. So what were his credentials for taking over United?? Mourinho won 2 trophies in his first year and got us to 2nd....but he's gone.
So I don't get your point? What do you mean by persisting? Would you be happy with Poch playing decent football but winning nothing or happy with Mourinho winning bits but playing dire football?
Unless you've got a crystal ball or know something I don't, no one knows whether any manager is going to be right for any club. Liverpool stuck with Klopp and finally after 3/4 years he's won them something. Like I said OGS came in after half a season. We ALL know where the problems are yet he's been judged before the season has even started and transfer season closed. It's just so dumb. I really, really hope he does a great job to shut these shortsighted idiots up.
People don’t seem to grasp that managers like Klopp, Pep and Fergie came to Liverpool, City and United they came as one of the best managers in the world and on the basis of that they got the extended time. Ole on other hand came as the guy that relegated Cardiff and hasn’t won anything even in Norway since 8 years or something.
I’m not. I said if we are looking at appointing him after 10 games why shouldn’t we be looking to sack him after the same set of criteria - 10 games? Can you answer me this?
I’ve also said that he should be given credit for the winning run but also held accountant for the losing run.
Also I’ve not said it black and white but responding to other posters who conveniently skated the players for the losing run but also didn’t give them credit for the winning one. Of course that suits your agenda
Where are Real now and where we are and who are really the ones that have taken moronic decisions in the last 6 years?
So we give Real and Barca credit for appointing rookies but completely ignore them being ruthless to the same rookies if they don’t see anything even in short notice (couple of months)? Isn’t that a bit of facetious thing to do?
Would Liverpool give Klopp time if it wasn’t for his work at Dortmund (the credentials that got him the job in the first place)?
Because to use that approach is Real madrid like (replied before, I suggest you read first) and fortunately we're not as stupid as madrid.
No you didn't at first which was why I replied to your stupid comment otherwise you made good points in the same post, don't embarrass yourself further. I have my opinion which is, it was the manager and players, others have theirs. You said it was all on the players for the good part but bad run was on Ole, which was why I commented on your post. Once again ridiculous post.
To each their own, I would never want to see United be as pathetic as Real Madrid who sack their managers after winning them CL and leagues. They even wanted to sack Zidane after winning them back to back CLs, never want to see United be as soulless as those clowns.
So appointing a manager mid way and not even giving him a transfer window is fair because we went on a bad run but just ignore the good run or call it luck, some luck of 14 games or so, Well according to you it was all on the players.
Jose had credentials but we saw no improvement in our approach, we were playing like cowards vs the likes of derby/bristol city and his plan was to buy Old players for 60 odd million while getting rid of young ones and he gave up which was just pathetic............So much for credentials.
If we don't see improvements under Ole he'll face the same fate as jose but if we do see improvements in style and results (not talking about winning the league) then he'll be given more time, just as any other manager would be.
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That is such a poor argument. Winning is winning, regardless of past achievements. Otherwise van Gaal or Mourinho would still be here....they never got extended time because they were shite and just wrong for United despite their impressive and creditable CVs. Klopp and Poch have been at their respective clubs for longer and only up to now have only one of them won something.
So as long as OGS is making progress, he should afforded the same amount of time.
And today's top red prize goes to...
Sorry mate but it just seems you're trying to prove your worth as a fan by ranting at people you don't even know, on a fecking Internet forum. Get a grip of yourself
So if Ole is 6th or 7th come December - which is not so wild considering the state we’re in you still would back him?
If next year we still finish outside top 4 you would still back him? Would sacking him in December would do us better than sacking him now, simple question?
You are pinning your chops on someone who has been around in management for 10 years. Pep and Zidane won titles in their first years in management. If Ole was so good why wasn’t he tracked and given higher profile job before? Should we completely disregard his failure at Cardiff?
If he doesn’t make it will you pull the hindsight argument on my “ridiculous post” next time we discuss it?
Worst form since over a decade isn’t progress mate.
No goal in open play in 1300 minutes isn’t either.
If there's a top-class candidate available now, someone who ticks all the boxes and is happy to come to us, we should get rid of Solskjaer. If not, we should stick with him and give him a chance. Simple, isn't it?
Klopp proved himself as a top manager before taking over Liverpool. Ole hasn't. The difference is pretty obvious.
Poch has turned Spurs into a force on a tiny budget compared to United and Liverpool. Had he had the chance to sign the likes of VVD, Mane, Salah..., he might well have won the CL last night and other competitons. To keep pointing out his lack of success without taking into account the circumstances is a bit silly.
You don't need a cristall ball to know that managers who have proved themsleves are more likely to succeed than those who haven't. Otherwise, why not appoint Neil Warnock? We can't know in advance that he won't win another treble for United, right?
Ole is a long term appointment who has the clubs interests firmly at heart and hasn’t got an ego that will stop him working as part of a team. Ultimately we need to get into a position where the manager can change without disrupting the club and performance on the pitch. Ole is the perfect manager to help us set up that system and if he’s successful then that’s great, if not then we’ll be in a position where we can replace him without having to start again from scratch.
" [ and TheCafe knows all of the "top-class" candidates that are available ] "
No one has a crystal ball but in the aggregate, past-performance is an indication of future performance.
In practice you use these factors to set and play the odds.
That's not "dumb". You are a gambling man it seems and so you already know this.
It all depends on how we're playing, if we're trash and in that position then he has to go but if we're playing well but missing plenty of chances then I would like him to have more time as there is improvement in our play etc...
Once again it depends on how much improvement there is. Sack a manager now when he was given the job weeks ago, yeah thats the way to go. Who knows whether we will sack him in december or not but to say we should sack him now because we went on a bad is rather stupid.
Are you disregarding klopps failure at Mainz? he got them relegated. Funny how he's doing well know considering he was so shit that he got them relegated. A manager can improve?
, what a strange concept. We had Jose a manager with great credentials playing fellaini and begging him (
) to stay, I'd rather back a manager who wants to play the right way than someone who wants united to be stoke city regardless of how much success they've had. I believe in improvement and am not a close minded person. So your argument is why weren't everybody in for him? There are so many good managers about but they're unemployed, care to explain why they haven't been given a job? Maybe owners are stupid enough to think bad run is on the manager and good run on players..........maybe?
Your post crediting only the players for good run and Ole for bad run, will always be at the highest level of stupidity regardless of whether he's a success here or not. That won't ever change.
Hindsight? no need for that, it will always be ridiculous and the fact that you think validity of your post depends on Ole's success here, shows your moronic logic behind it.
I’m not going to discuss anything with person who goes on to make his point insulting other members and related to me in this case. Post reported.It all depends on how we're playing, if we're trash and in that position then he has to go but if we're playing well but missing plenty of chances then I would like him to have more time as there is improvement in our play etc...
Once again it depends on how much improvement there is. Sack a manager now when he was given the job weeks ago, yeah thats the way to go. Who knows whether we will sack him in december or not but to say we should sack him now because we went on a bad is rather stupid.
Are you disregarding klopps failure at Mainz? he got them relegated. Funny how he's doing well know considering he was so shit that he got them relegated. A manager can improve?
So your argument is why weren't everybody in for him? There are so many good managers about but they're unemployed, care to explain why they haven't been given a job? Maybe owners are stupid enough to think bad run is on the manager and good run on players..........maybe?
Your post crediting only the players for good run and Ole for bad run, will always be at the highest level of stupidity regardless of whether he's a success here or not. That won't ever change.
Hindsight? no need for that, it will always be ridiculous and the fact that you think validity of your post depends on Ole's success here, shows your moronic logic behind it.
You might as well grow up and learn how to lead a proper discussion if you are looking for one.
Are you saying that Ole should have exclided those 3 players from the first team squad during the season? And replaced them with who exactly?
IMO its moronic logic to say bad run is only on the manager and good run only on players, not sure how else i could have put it (if it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck then guess what, its a duck), not insulting anyone but it is what it is. I am sure you only apply this logic to Ole but not to Jose or any other manager at any other club.
No person would consider that to be sound logic but if you're upset then you either don't get it or just upset because someone called it, what it actually is.
Embarrassing tbh. Repeating the same thing over and over while ignoring opposing points isn't discussion. But yeah.....
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The irony...well done fella. Not ranting at anyone mate. You do know how forums work?
As I’ve said I haven’t insulted other posters trying to get my point across. You have done so in two posts in a row. And the end of the day if I call you names it wouldn’t make my point stronger. You can disagree all you want but that doesn’t give you the right to insult others.IMO its moronic logic to say bad run is only on the manager and good run only on players, not sure how else i could have put it (if it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck then guess what, its a duck), not insulting anyone but it is what it is. I am sure you only apply this logic to Ole but not to Jose or any other manager at any other club.
No person would consider that to be sound logic but if you're upset then you either don't get it or just upset because someone called it, what it actually is.
Embarrassing tbh. Repeating the same thing over and over while ignoring opposing points isn't discussion. But yeah.....
As I said before wasn't insulting anyone but calling it what it was.
I disagreed with your other points but understood why you posted those points and agreed with your points against Ole. I am sure even you understand, how ridiculous it sounds to blame only the manager for bad runs and only the players for the good run, if we were talking about another manager you wouldn't be posting that, as you didn't blame only jose for the bad run but with Ole its all his fault.
Which makes no sense and shows bias, which is really embarrassing as you've posted the same things in every Ole related thread.
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The divisive nature of this thread, amongst our own fans is absolutely shambolic.
We all support the same club & now have a club legend in charge & we have our own fans berating the man before he’s even signed a player. Klopp is never going to manage the club, nor is Peo so quite honestly they can f*** off.
I honestly don’t get it. We are NOT getting another manager this summer, the manager provided us with one of our best runs & one of our worst with a group of players that previous managers have said are not good enough.
We aren’t winning the league in the short term & no matter the manager, even SAF couldn’t turn Ashley Young into a full back. We need to band together as a club because this will get worse before getting better.
I believe OgS is the right man currently, he’ll have to cull a lot of the squad & bring through youngsters - once we reach a certain point then you go for an en vogue manager but we tried that with Jose & he was unable to deliver instantly.
Support the club ffs, raise grievances of course but on this board it feels like people are so infatuated with being right they actually hope OgS does badly to prove their point.
We are fans, we don’t pick the manager, we don’t sign the players; a few posts on a fan forum means nowt in the grand scheme so support the club & hope for better as that’s all we can do.
We all support the same club & now have a club legend in charge & we have our own fans berating the man before he’s even signed a player. Klopp is never going to manage the club, nor is Peo so quite honestly they can f*** off.
I honestly don’t get it. We are NOT getting another manager this summer, the manager provided us with one of our best runs & one of our worst with a group of players that previous managers have said are not good enough.
We aren’t winning the league in the short term & no matter the manager, even SAF couldn’t turn Ashley Young into a full back. We need to band together as a club because this will get worse before getting better.
I believe OgS is the right man currently, he’ll have to cull a lot of the squad & bring through youngsters - once we reach a certain point then you go for an en vogue manager but we tried that with Jose & he was unable to deliver instantly.
Support the club ffs, raise grievances of course but on this board it feels like people are so infatuated with being right they actually hope OgS does badly to prove their point.
We are fans, we don’t pick the manager, we don’t sign the players; a few posts on a fan forum means nowt in the grand scheme so support the club & hope for better as that’s all we can do.
Think he is highlighting the insult part.