What ARE we missing?

LungiDevil said:
The difference between this team and SAF's winning combinations is the lack of quality strikers. In fact, except Zlatan we don't have a single striker who has played consistently in that position in the past few seasons. I always thought it would hamper us at some point in the season, but boy are we hurting bad and early. Zlatan is having a not so expected return of goals and we don't know where the goals are going to come from.

Whenever we were chasing a game under SAF, we could always look at the bench for a 'pure' striker who offers something different. Something the defenders were not used to marking for the past 60-70mins. A difference in pace, movement or strength which makes the change more potent and often find the decisive goal. Now, we look at the bench and we have false wingers, false 9s, 10s, but not a striker. So we get a plethora of chances, but not enough goals often.

No Chicharito, Tevez or Solksjaer waiting to come on and get a scruffy goal or a poacher's one. You need those kind of players who can sniff a chance or be a nuisance to the defenders and score one. We are at least one starting striker short. Rooney, Martial etc are just not strikers at this point. We only have Zlatan and Rashford and it doesn't help that Jose starts Rashford on the wing. I hope he gets more sub appearances or cup appearances up front.

We brought on fecking Fellaini to score a goal last game (and have done it multiple times). And to be honest, I couldn't think of anyone else given our starting line-up. Given Henrikh was on, Mata was going to be surplus. What would I give to have some one like Cheech or even Welbeck coming on!

A quick fix to this situation could be to start Henrikh and Martial on the wings and bring Rashford in place of Zlatan when chasing a goal. Rooney/Mata can play No.10.
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Great post with all perspectives taken into account. Best post on here for at while.

I do thank Valencia has plenty end product tho. Couldnt ask for much more.

To sort of change the balance and utilize Rashford and Martial as a main striker, I think buying a world class wing as Payet would be ideal. We'll have an even greater problem next season when Zlatan is even older, and we need to buying the Higuain type of player available on the market - this requires an insane amount of money, which is more wisely used on Carricks successor and a central defender. Therefore, it'd be nice to get Martial/Rashford more user to play in Zlatans position now and then. Not very Mou-like tho.

So far another bright star on the football heavens hasnt emerged like last year w. Payet, Mahrez, Vardy, Auba. So we need to mostly work with what we have. Griezmann sound nice, but Im not sure its realistic
 
kidbob said:
Carrick, blind or bastian sitting in a 433. Herrera isn't a holding midfielder. Play him to the right of the sitter and play Pogba to the left in the role he was best at at juve.

Mata or Mikhi on the right. Martial or Rooney on the left. Lingard and depay as backup.

Ibra or rashford up top.

Do this in all games. 433 is still the best formation and it isn't overkill against lesser sides when you can just push higher up.

Pogba to link with the left side and be closer to goal and ditto herrera on the right side.

Teach Shaw how to overlap and use his pace the way Valencia does.

To me this is our best formation and option without having out and out wingers. In theory should make midfield harder to play through while allowing herrera and Pogba closer to the goals where we need them

We have played some lovely football this season, we just need players in the right places to consistently do that.

If martial and Mikhi can pick up their form and rashford can perform like last year as a striker we'll be laughing. Mata is playing well and current Rooney is a good option to have if he keeps his form up.

Hell even scniedrlin and fellaini are decent back up to herrera and Pogba in theory.
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totally agree with you. That should be our starting point.
I'd just add, that we could make very good use of another DM, because Schweinsteiger is out and Blind is a very unknown quantity in this position. Additionally an out-out winger for the left side would be great, because it would add another dimension to our team. It would also free-up Martial and Rashford to rotate with Zlatan.
 
More top class players approaching their prime to go with DDG, Bailly and Pogba. Herrara and Shaw will probably get there. Rashford and Martial might do. Carrick, Zlatan and Rooney are past it. Valencia seems to come and go. The rest need to be better.
 
Raw said:
It really isn't.
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There's no way Arsenal, Liverpool, City, Leicester or Everton have a better defense than us right now.

Tottenham and Chelsea are the only teams you can make a solid case for. I personally don't think Chelsea have better defenders, but they work well as a defensive unit. That's what you get with Conte in charge and Kante protecting a back 3. But if you pick out the defenders and goalkeepers and start comparing player for player, then we have the better defense, imo.
 
Jaybomb said:
A top class defence.

Smalling and Jones are donkeys
Rojo and Blind are squad players
Darmian is rubbish
Valencia is a winger that should have been sold yonks ago
Shaw has been underwhelming

I seriously think we need to buy a new RB, LB and a world class CB. I'm not gonna throw names out cause we can't get just about anybody. But I'd like to see a pacey set of attacking full backs like Kyle Walker, David Alaba. Along with a world class experienced CB like Pepe or Chiellini.

Our problem lies in defence.
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Jones has done well in the last 3-4 matches.
Darmian is good enough as a rotation player.
Valencia has been the best player in our defence apart from Bailly.
Shaw went through an injury you can't expect him to perform like a world class LB at the moment.

We need an experienced CB and the defence will be sorted. We have Bailly already, he has proved that he is a good defender. Our problem lies in the finishing more than in defence.
 
klayton88 said:
Prime Ruud and we're top of the table or there abouts.
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That's basically it.
If we finish our chances, with the same conversion rate the rival teams, we'd be near the top of the table.
 
manunited1919 said:
I think Jose is on the right track and is putting together a formidable team, but at the moment we are falling just short of where we all want to be. I really am not sure: What are we missing?

Is it just lady luck that has abandoned us?

Do we need to change formation to 442 against certain teams, so that we can get a real threat out of Rashford and Ibra?

Do we need to buy better wingers?

Do we need more commitment from current players, and perhaps the leadersip of a captain willing to drag the teammates to win with a never-say-die attitude?

Or do we need another massive infusion of new blood into the team the next 2 windows to fix our problems?
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These 2 would be a start. We havent got any proper wingers apart from Valencia, and hes played as a wing back. We also havent got a proper captain. Someone who can fix things on the pitch, drag the game up by the scruff of the neck, and motivate the players.
The last part will definitely happen. I can see as many as half a dozen new players coming in at least.
 
we need another world class attacker, and some players to return to form. other than that, just a small run of wins to get confidence.
 
ash_86 said:
1. Wingers that can hit the touchline
2. FB that can deliver a good swirler
3. CB's who can defend from a set piece , expect for one who's injured.
4. Players who genuinely loves playing here and not just for the money.
5. Player who can deliver a good set-piece ball.
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No 4 would be hard to find, in fact would be hard to find at any club unless they supported them prior to playing for them
 
Its pretty clear that the general consensus is we need better striking options but in the short term we can't do anything about this so we have to make use of what we currently have. As @LungiDevil said above Fergie always had 4 top strikers with 2 used as super subs when needed, given that we no longer have Cheech who would have surely helped us turn some of these draws into wins we need to keep Rashford out of the starting line up to use him as an impact sub as he's wasted on the left at the moment and also needs to be taken out of the firing line. He was great coming on last year as a sub so hopefully take him out of the spotlight a bit and let him get his mojo back. In terms of our other player lacking his Mojo, Martial, I think we need to just play him into form. Start him on the left in a front 3 with Mhki on the right or Mata. Alway play the 3 in midfield and, as others have mentioned, play Carrick as much as possible but rotate him with Blind when needs be or, God forbid, even Bastian. Play 433 from now on and only replace like with like depending on who is on form but right now seeing as very few are on form we just need to play some guys into it and they should be Martial and Mhki either side of Ibra as they are the most talented players we have for those positions. Jose just needs to break his duck with swapping Ibra out for Rashford or even Rooney when things aren't going to plan and then move forward with this formation and system.
 
A set piece taker like Payet.
A poacher like RVN or Chicharito.
At least one winger who likes to get to the byline rather than cut inwards.
A bit of luck.
 
SachinJ22 said:
Jones has done well in the last 3-4 matches.
Darmian is good enough as a rotation player.
Valencia has been the best player in our defence apart from Bailly.
Shaw went through an injury you can't expect him to perform like a world class LB at the moment.

We need an experienced CB and the defence will be sorted. We have Bailly already, he has proved that he is a good defender. Our problem lies in the finishing more than in defence.
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You're giving these players too much credit. How many of them would start for big teams? None.
 
We got to the by line a lot a few years ago. Doesn't equal goals

We really need mourinho to rediscover what made him the best in the world. We have one of the best squads in the league and finishing 7th isn't going to cut it.

We have a legendary striker whose getting in good spots. He is missing chances but that is nothing to do with age, how could it be he scored 50 last year... Te things you hear in this place. If we get zlat enough chances this year he will score his share
 
I think it's down to mentality and tactics. Player for player we are up there with the best, but we aren't utilizing that talent to it's fullest. Also we waste to many chances, while at the same time opposition teams are ruthless with us.
 
What we are missing is RVP of the 2012-13 season. LVG thought Rooney would be the new RVP, and it was his biggest mistake as coach. Mou has brought in Zlatan to perform the same role, but so far Zlat has disappointed. I totally agree that we should have kept Chicha/Nani in the team to provide us options in the Box, but that was LVG's second biggest mistake!
 
United don't really have proper wingers who can stretch other teams. Mata, Mkhitaryan, Martial, and Rooney are all players who like to play narrow, cut inside, and play through the middle. United's most natural options on the wing are Lingard and Memphis, who are both rather average IMO.

Now not having proper wingers would not be a problem if United played diamond formation (which suits their squad best IMO), but Jose is a bit stubborn and I don't think he will change the 4-2-3-1

United don't have a prime centre forward either. Zlatan is too old and Rashford is too young.

Defensive midfielder is another area of the pitch where United are lacking. The fact that they are still relying on a 35 year old Carrick is rather worrying.

Lastly, I think United's defends isn't good enough. Valencia, like Milner, is IMO not a long term solution as a full back. Shaw has been rather disappointing at let back, although he is still very young and deserves a chance.

Smalling, Jones, Rojo, and Blind are all decent squad players but nothing more. Only Bailly is a good defender.

Ideally for the next summer (because I don't believe this can all be fixed in a winter transfer window); United need at least one more CB, RB, DM, a winger, and a CF if they want to be among the best in Europe again.

If Jose decides to play the diamond formation instead I think that United would no longer need a winger, but the rest are still manditory IMO.
 
The 'we should have kept' view is laughable. All the players mentioned when sold were absolute shocking and found their career again away from the pressure and spotlight of OT.

The difference between us and the other teams are just an inform attacking player(s). Whilst ours are playing well, we need better than just that......
 
Sensei said:
Many might not agree but the difference between Brendan's Lallana and Klopp is night and day
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True but I'm not sure that's necessarily a motivational issue - Klopp is generally very good at getting the best out of his attacking players. Firmino and Origi have also improved significantly since Klopp's arrival.

I think Mourinho's team selections and lack of patience with a few players has cost us on a few occasions though.
 
1. A left winger that can cross with his left.
2. A tall center back that can play to ball on set pieces.


I have no idea who would be the get for #1, but I like Sebastian Coates of Sporting CP for #2. He's on loan from Sunderland. Which means he can be bought. I'd rather bring in Sebastian to possibly play beside Bailly than I would Van Djak. Yeah, Van Djak is premier league proven. Bailly wasn't. Would you trade Bailly for Van Djak?
 
Just a bit of luck lads.

How we haven't added more goals by the tried and trusted method of striking right down the goalkeepers throat and generally fecking around with it in the box, I'll never know.

On another night the goalkeeper would jump out of the way and the centre backs would just square pass it to Ibra.
 
Minimalist said:
Just a bit of luck lads.

How we haven't added more goals by the tried and trusted method of striking right down the goalkeepers throat and generally fecking around with it in the box, I'll never know.

On another night the goalkeeper would jump out of the way and the centre backs would just square pass it to Ibra.
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The luck excuse ran out 2 games ago.

We can't put teams to the sword after scoring first and because of that we get punished every time.
 
Hernandez to bury all of these fecking chances!
 
It's interesting to see how many times Zlatan makes the wrong decision near the opponents goal. His natural instinct is to score goals - which is normal for a striker but he frequently fails to spot players in better position.
 
A settled first choice starting 11 that plays as often as possible together in the league.

A settled formation that benefits the best players in the squad (4-3-3).

Playing players in their best position, Rashford is a striker NOT a winger and Pogba is NOT a defensive midfielder just for two examples.

A top centre back that's comfortable on the ball like Varane.

A genuine attacking right back like Fabinho, don't get me wrong Valencia has been a revelation as right back but whenever he's injured/suspended Darmian is nowhere near the same level.

A long term replacement for Carrick, if he's used right Carrick could be great for one more season so having him mentor a replacement so the transition is as smooth as possible is the way to go.
 
Four of our biggest earners are all on the downward spiral due to age. Zlatan, Bastian, Rooney and Carrick (he won't be top 4 but will still be on a packet). Replace these guys with 23-28 year old versions that command similar wages and we will be back bossing it.
 
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