What did Ole get wrong today ?

[Aretak]

His use of substitutes was embarrassing, frankly. Any fresh legs would have been beneficial. Fred may be absolutely useless on the ball, but at least (and at most) he runs around and gets at people. So the manager waits until the 100th minute to bring him on, and replaces Greenwood rather than Rashford. The he makes another four subs in the last five minutes of extra time, accepting a penalty shootout against far-inferior opposition who were themselves desperate for it to get to that (and had been for the past hour of play). He sat there and did absolutely nothing until it was too late, rather than trying to win the game before it came to that. He completely froze up and prayed that the shootout would save him. Clearly, that backfired spectacularly.

Maybe he'll learn from it. Maybe he'll be gone this time next year. Either way, tonight was a totally inept managerial display. He should be delighted that DDG is deflecting so much of the blame.

 

[NZT-One]

Not a lot. The players just proved again that they aren't as good as many on here think.

I'd love to be in the room when you tell the likes of Pogba, Bruno, Cavani, Rashford, Shaw and De Gea that they are not good enough to beat Villareal in 120 minutes of football.

Is that still "TopRed"? I mean, it surely can be considered as disrespectful against the players. Is that ok, but it isn't when directed at the manager? Seems inconsistent to me.

 

[Suedesi]

If Unai was managing United and Ole Villareal, Man United would have won 3-1 easily.

 

[cyril C]

I can. accept the starting 11 because they were his best choices. Half time talk, if any, was effective as most of the team showed up, in particular Shaw and McTom (Cavani and Greenwood were the only 2 during 1H). But, Rashford was only at 30%, Bruno and Pogba were pretty average, nowhere near the best. So, what should he do after 70th?

Rashford should have been taken off, Greenwood left in as he was the only threat on the right. May be VDB for either 1 of Bruno / Pogba; may be 1 of the new boy instead of James. I don't know, but doing nothing, and the subsequent late sub choice, were terribly wrong.

 

[lsd]

Ole i love him and want him to succeed but his big weakness is he is just too predictable and afraid to make the big decisions Fergie would do to win.

Tuanzebe should have started based on form which also would have allowed Lindelof to play on his best side but you knew Ole would never do that.

Rashford should have been substituted instead of Greenwood but again you knew he would be too afraid to do that and as a result Rashford plays on his worst side and Greenwood gets taken off

Then the usual situation where every united fan knows by now that he just cannot make a change until it is way too late and off course when he does it tends to be the wrong one

Its like he is handicapped by fear and it will always hold him and the team back.

People have said he doesn't trust his bench and maybe but i think its more worrying and he doesn't trust himself to make the right call and just tries to play it safe instead

 

[hobbers]

1. Started Rashford.
2. Kept Rashford on after 45 minutes
3-78. Kept Rashford on the pitch a minute longer
And then all the other subs he failed to make in normal time like any competent manager would have done, when the opposition changed FIVE fecking players.
Gave up on ET before it even kicked off. Didn't make changes until the end of ET.
Didn't bring Diallo on.
Didn't bring Matic on.
Took Pogba off for James ffs.
Didn't put Henderson on for pens.

 

[joedirt87]

Squad management. Absolutely appaling. How little can you trust your players?! Villareal were bringing on players we've never heard of. But it gave them control in the last half hour of the game. We were out on our feet. Ole was out coached tonight. No two ways about it.

Yep, feel the same way. he pissed away the last minutes of regular time and all of extra time. you have the momentum and completely wasted ET. Changes had to be made to match the fresh legs of Villareal. I also thought they were way too worried about Villareal on the counter. back line and the two midfielders sitting near the half way line when Villareal were just sitting deep in their own box.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Well, not making a sub til extra time...

 

[RazorOz]

Game management. Failed to proactively or even reactively change the game. The subs in the end were a bit amateurish, I mean why did James and Tuanzebe come in the 117th minute? They weren't even in the first 5 penalty takers, you can't seriously say it was an attempt to influence the game at that point. We completely no posted extra time because of this, we should have been pushing hard for a goal in extra time, instead they looked more likely to score than we did.

All this talk about a lack of squad depth, do people seriously believe Villarreal have better squad depth than us? No, they just have a manager who knows how to utilise a squad over a game, Solskjaer always just leaves what he perceives is the best 11 out there if the game isn't won, the only time I can even remember him changing a game with subs was Pogba vs Milan, but Pogba was only not starting that game in the first place as he wasn't fit, when he has what he things is his best 11 out he doesn't make changes unless he thinks a game is won.

 

[DRJosh]

Not bringing on a goalkeeper who might save a pen stands out for me.

This. David’s body language was all wrong too. He seemed to cower in for each pen

 

[Isotope]

This was what a winner brought in in a must win game.

 

[jackal&hyde]

It's easy to talk in hindsight but the fact of the matter is that our options were a kid with barely any professional game experience and a bunch of mids that are either past it or yet to settle.

DVB should have been brought on but I have no idea for whom and what formation you go too. Maybe push Pogba forward and put more crosses in for him and Cavani, i don't know. It was a craptastic performance by the players and a very good defensive display by Villareal.

 

[Giggs86]

Nothing really. Wasn't our day, individual bad performances against a team that parked the bus and started wasting time from the 10th minute. If we had any other keeper other that De Gea we would've won and this thread would not exist.

Emery had a solid plan from start to finish how to get that trophy, while Ole just selected an attacking team and was hoping for the best.

 

[wise_old_man]

This was what a winner brought in in a must win game.

I think Van De Beek was a destined "Macheda" moment for Ole and would be seen as a masterstroke. But Ole missed the chance.

 

[kouroux]

Nothing really. Wasn't our day, individual bad performances against a team that parked the bus and started wasting time from the 10th minute. If we had any other keeper other that De Gea we would've won and this thread would not exist.

Emery had a solid plan from start to finish how to get that trophy, while Ole just selected an attacking team and was hoping for the best.

Your last paragraph is exactly what I feel too. Emery displayed his experience as a coach whereas Ole displayed a lot of naivety.

 

[bosnian_red]

Kind of depends on fitness, we don't know how fit or unfit Fred was for example. Ideally we would start with McFred, Pogba on the left and then have Rashford or Greenwood to come on. Assuming he wasn't fit to start, then errors were:

1. Not making a sub for 100 minutes. Seriously, what the feck. Fitness plays such a big part. They made 5 subs in normal time. Quality is almost irrelevant. We have decent players there. You bring them on at a normal time for the statement of intent, the fresh legs, and so they have belief. Not using anyone made everyone feel like a desperate last ditch play rather than a useful part of the squad.​
2. Not attempting to change anything, stylistically or with personnel (ties in with point 1)​
3. Season long problem, but set piece defending. It's horrible.​
4. Taking off Greenwood before rashford​
5. Playing down the importance of winning a cup - seriously, where the feck was the urgency in the game? It breeds a losers mentality. They should be saying that any season that United doesn't win a trophy is a failure of a season, and ingraining that in their heads. As it is, we've become Spurs/Arsenal since Sir Alex retired.​

 

[Sky1981]

It's not about who should play. But how they should play.

Anyone here can do a mock lineup. It's the interactions and instructions on how to play that's paramount.

If your whole Forte is just keep it simple and wait for individual brilliance then this is what we get. Games that are hot and cold..we could bang 5 in 1 game and looks clueless the next game.

Individual brilliance should be the icing on the cake. At the moment we have lots of icing but no cake.

 

[Kopral Jono]

He got arrogant as he clearly went for the penalties in the extra time. He thought he had penalties sorted. He might have seen something in the training with player's confidence in taking penalties. But it's never the right approach specially from a team that played as well as we did in the second half.

Bolded is an angle I hadn't thought of and is most likely the case. He hedged his bets on penalties, but he wasn't fully committed to it either by not taking De Gea off knowing his poor record in saving them, and it backfired big time.

 

[SouthPredators4]

He showed himself today. With his subs, he was playing to avoid a loss, than to actively seek a win. FFS, Villareal was sitting back for most of the 120 mins.

 

[Dargonk]

I actually didn't have any issue with him not making changes earlier. In the second half we were in control and looked the more likely to score. Plus bar Amad, we didn't have any changes that could have given us something different going forward.

However I wouldn't have taken Greenwood off, as he was looking better than Rashford, and then the strategy in the extra time period really should have been to really take risks and get a goal.

That and we need an actual plan B for when teams just sit back, it has been a glaring weakness that the team hasn't been able to overcome for a long time.

I would have also switched DDG out for the shoot out

 

[Kopral Jono]

It's not about who should play. But how they should play.

Anyone here can do a mock lineup. It's the interactions and instructions on how to play that's paramount.

If your whole Forte is just keep it simple and wait for individual brilliance then this is what we get. Games that are hot and cold..we could bang 5 in 1 game and looks clueless the next game.

Individual brilliance should be the icing on the cake. At the moment we have lots of icing but no cake.

To be fair we are seeing progress this season, and there have been times when this team surprises me in a good way, but bolded is the reason why I'm still not convinced with Ole and excuses such as him lacking inexperience is not good enough in the end. We're not lab rats for anyone to play around with.

 

[SecondFig]

The entire extra time was on him. The first 90 were on the players.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. But it's also a wider thing of squad management that we saw at the end of the 2018/19 season. He doesn't seem to trust the wider squad - just a very small core of 13 or so players who will generally start week in week out, meaning that they're exhausted by the end of the season and we tail off. We got away with it this year because we had a good lead and Leicester also fell away, and last year the lockdown gave everyone a rest prior to the run-in. But he needs to learn to rotate more throughout the season

 

[SecondFig]

I actually didn't have any issue with him not making changes earlier. In the second half we were in control and looked the more likely to score. Plus bar Amad, we didn't have any changes that could have given us something different going forward.

However I wouldn't have taken Greenwood off, as he was looking better than Rashford, and then the strategy in the extra time period really should have been to really take risks and get a goal.

That and we need an actual plan B for when teams just sit back, it has been a glaring weakness that the team hasn't been able to overcome for a long time.

I would have also switched DDG out for the shoot out

I thought about that too - DDG has never been a good penalty stopper. I'm not sure Henderson is either, but I'd have been more confident going into the shoot-out with Dean in goal

 

[Resch]

To win a manager has to trust his team, to trust every player. Every player has to believe he could push the team forward.
Ole does not trust his bench, he has no plan to use them, no ideas to change his tactics to win.

Yesterday he didn't use the potential of the team, didn't bring on new players. Instead he accepted a draw, accepted a penalty shootout and lost. And he will lose every big match, the way he wastes the potential of this team.

 

[Redlyn]

I actually didn't have any issue with him not making changes earlier. In the second half we were in control and looked the more likely to score. Plus bar Amad, we didn't have any changes that could have given us something different going forward.

However I wouldn't have taken Greenwood off, as he was looking better than Rashford, and then the strategy in the extra time period really should have been to really take risks and get a goal.

That and we need an actual plan B for when teams just sit back, it has been a glaring weakness that the team hasn't been able to overcome for a long time.

I would have also switched DDG out for the shoot out

Keeping on Rashford so long who was clearly injured or just pathetic. Based on his performance he was begging to be subbed and Ole couldnt see it / do it. He takes out Greenwood instead. That was a pecking order sub and not what the game needed. Fred for Rashford was the obvious sub allowing MCT and Pogba to push up. We lost momentum and just watched the clock dwindle down with Rashford barely able to make a run.

His in game management limitations were on full show.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Bought on Diallo in the 2nd half to replace Rashford.
Brought on Henderson for penalty shootout.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

His game management has also been poor due to his inexperience. Today's it really shows.

No subs at all while Emery made 5 subs. Villararel end the game much better and stronger.

Also, why have a squad if u don't trust or don't know how to manage them?

Tactic? We have no plan B. Keep doing the same thing again and again. Villararel defended easily.

 

[Dargonk]

Keeping on Rashford so long who was clearly injured or just pathetic. Based on his performance he was begging to be subbed and Ole couldnt see it / do it. He takes out Greenwood instead. That was a pecking order sub and not what the game needed. Fred for Rashford was the obvious sub allowing MCT and Pogba to push up. We lost momentum and just watched the clock dwindle down with Rashford barely able to make a run.

His in game management limitations were on full show.

I agree, Greenwood staying on and Rashford coming off based on the game would have been a much better move. Greenwood does appear to get subbed off first out of our strikers a lot even if he is performing better.

 

[norm87cro]

Picking Victor Lindelof. Otherwise he did well. He even put Mata before the penalties

 

[DULLAGHAN]

At 1-1 the team was crying out for Mata or Donny to move the ball between their defensive lines. Instead we tried the same things over and over again, expecting a different result.

No subs until deep into injury time was an absolute joke, we had all the momentum at that stage but sacrificed it due to them having fresher legs. I wouldn't be surprised if every player outside that starting 11 wanted out now as obviously there is no trust from the manager.

 

[Sky1981]

To be fair we are seeing progress this season, and there have been times when this team surprises me in a good way, but bolded is the reason why I'm still not convinced with Ole and excuses such as him lacking inexperience is not good enough in the end. We're not lab rats for anyone to play around with.

The thing is, to be very fair to Ole. He does produced the goods. We finished 2nd and 2nd for the consecutive years. So credit where he's due. I'm one of his supporter to get the job permanently, I criticized him a lot but he managed to silenced me post pandemic.

Always have this niggling feeling that he's not the man for the job, but have been proven wrong all these years (my feeling that is), so I'd give him 1 more season carte Blanche and see how it goes next season.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

The bench is not good enough for Ole to do anything of note. Look at Villarreal bench. All the established world beaters are right there.

 

[lsd]

I thought about that too - DDG has never been a good penalty stopper. I'm not sure Henderson is either, but I'd have been more confident going into the shoot-out with Dean in goal

To be fair i doubt Henderson would have saved any of the Villareal penalties either. Whether he would have scored one who knows?

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Also give Ole some time. Its only 4 semi and one final now. This things take couple of more attempts. This is a club where we train Managers to blood them in.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Some of these are with the benefit of hindsight of course:
Was a mistake to start Rashford
Mistake to keep him on so long
Mistake to take Greenwood off.
Mistake to not make any tactical changes throughout the game.
Mistake to not make any subs before extra time
Mistake to play for pens in extra time
Mistake to not sub out de gea

The worst part is he's made some of these mistakes before and will probably continue making them.

 

[Widow]

Ole clearly has zero confidence outside the starting 11. It's not the first time he's left it late to make a change.

Rashy looked dead at the end but I guess Ole hoped for that one piece of magic as the only reason to keep him on.

New additions in the summer will hopefully enable us to make big changes in the big games. Being able to start Sancho left and Mason right with a Rashford to come on for example.

Amed with a pre-season under his belt will hopefully be ready to play more of a part. Those two players alone would give us great depth across the front three (assuming Sancho signs of course).

Ole should/could have made changes earlier but I can see why he was hesitant with only players like James and an uninspiring DVB to choose from.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I don't see anyone who he could have brought on that would benefit us in any way ?

All his options were defensive.

You mean VDB, Mata, James and Amad are defenders? I am confused.

If you are saying VDB, Mata, James and Amad were of lower quality than the starting XI, then maybe that is true. That's how pretty much every bench is.
When your plan A does not work, then you try to mix it up and see another option. You can't be sitting on your a** and starting at things and giving up already saying "Hey!! My best XI is out there. It is them or nothing". No manager in his right senses does that.
And no manager ever sees his players getting tired and decides let's run them all to the ground till they break.

If Villarreal weren't crap and trying to defend all the time, they would have won in 90 mins or at least in 120. But they were crap and scared. All we had to do is get in some fresh legs and see how it goes against a team that has been defending for so many minutes. Instead Ole decided, he will just wait and wait and wait and see if something happens by accident or magic.

I have defended Ole and appreciated the work he has done for the team so many times. But what happened in the finals is simply unacceptable. And this is not the first time he has done that. His refusal to bring on subs have been called out so many times before as well. He sits like a statue in his seat, either starting at monitor or taking notes and decides nothing has to be changed. It doesn't matter if it is a league game or knockout.
And I dont even want to get into his outright refusal to sub Rashford almost ever. It is ridiculous. Sensible managers understand when something is not working. Ole seems to believe that given ridiculous amount of time, it will all fall in place.

And what makes it worse is that this stubbornness has cost us before as well. The PSG game. It was obvious to everyone, except Ole of course, that Fred was still there at HT, because of dumb luck. There was a chance to sub Fred at HT. He refused. Then Ander came on and anyone who has seen him knows he is going to run towards Fred and take a tumble. He did it once. Ref didn't buy it. Now there was chance to sub Fred now. But Ole did not. Herrera comes back again at Fred and this time rolls on the floor. And just as everyone and their dog predicted, Fred was sent off.

What Ole did in the final is borderline sabotage. By his cowardice and stubbornness, he has let down the team, the club and the players who are doing so well for him. You can call it as a learning curve or an indication that his time is up, depending on how much patience and leeway you can give someone in your minds.

 

[caid]

Not much really.
I was worried about pogba in midfield but with the way villareal set up and played it was 100% the right choice. I guess Fred being a fitness worry made the decision for him. Maybe he should have made substitutions earlier to freshen things up but i dont think we had much on the bench and with penalties coming up i could understand him being reluctant to take some players off.
I could nit pick about his choice of back 2 but not convinced Tuanzebe would have changed anything.
Trusting de gea on penalties was a mistake, sadly

 

[devilish]

Ole did a lot of mistakes yesterday.

- How many goals we need to concede from set pieces before we start training against them adequately?
- Why move Pogba back to CM in a key game?
- Why insisting on Rashford when he was clearly injured?
- Why replacing Greenwood with Fred?
- Why not bringing in Henderson in for penalties considering that DDG is so weak on that?

The guy is a genuinely nice guy but he won't bring in many trophies to OT. He's weak in tactics and coaching which means we constantly rely heavily on individual brilliance from the players.

 

[GenericUtdfan]

1. Henderson should have started. Seeing him out of the line-up was a red flag. De Gea looked awful in the shootout and never looked like he was going to save a single penalty. I swear Henderson was our first choice for the last six months? Huge error not starting him.
2. Not starting with McFred. They would have mopped up any Villarreal counter-attacks and one of Rashford or Greenwood would have had to come on as a sub to change the game. Especially with no Martial on the bench, we needed an experienced forward with fresh legs. Somebody else said Amad should have featured more during the season and I totally agree. Earlier in the season it looked like Amad was going to feature more and be our secret weapon, but Ole stopped throwing him into games, thus ending up with the situation yesterday: he couldn’t trust Amad in a clutch moment of the season.
3. Subs came on way too late. Players were tired and the opposition changed the game after we scored with their subs. Ole looked like he was paralysed with doubt. Also not a good sign.
4. Taking off Greenwood instead of Rashford. Stop favouring players, Ole. It makes you look weak. Use your eyes and instinct.
5. We are a generally flat and boring team. We always struggle to break down a defensively solid team and that did not change today. We don’t look anywhere near as well organised as the top teams, either and is Ole the man to take us there? Or the likes of Carrick, McKenna, Fletcher and that technical director? I don’t think so. We need a new direction...