What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

lex talionis

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
14,188
We need an actual striker in the starting XI. That won't make us favorites for a treble, but we're not going to scare anyone -- not even Wolves or Forest -- with Rashford or Martial at striker. Put the boots on Hojlund and let's see what our wide forward and midfielders can do with him.

And we definitely need to get the back line and Onana to attend staff meetings together. Fine, we kept a clean sheet v Wolves but Spurs and Forest mocked and flogged what was one of the better defensive sides last season. Some of that is to be expected with a new keeper, even a brilliant "modern" keeper, but early signs are worrying and must be put in the rear view mirror ASAP as we have a tough opponent coming up this weekend, one that is vastly superior to Forest.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,908
Need to find a midfielder in 4 days who has defensive positioning, but can also pass and progress the ball effectively too. The problem is I am struggling to come up with anyone who fits that criteria and is gettable.
 
Last edited:

LuckyScout78

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
998
What you need/Unitd needs to play 433 total football.

To dominate most of the times against teams United shall dominate :
+ A ball playing cm top playmaker. A city Rodri or Napoli Lobotka

Or the cm player from Wolves wanted by City Matheus Nunes.



I did a research after i saw that City wanted him and made a bid for him. He looks at his videos. He really impress me :
+ He get away from aggresive high press easily = hard and difficult to take the ball from. Like Frenkie De Jong and Lobotka.
It mean a alternative to those 2 ball playing playmaker

+ Or a super good ball winner nr.6 in Amrabat


In short words:

+ A creative ball playing cm/nr.6. Give Manchester City competition for Matheus Nunes

+ Or go for the top ball winner Amrabat.


Amrabat might suit against top teams like City, Liverpool and Arsenal. With high lines

But a ball playing playmaker nr.6 need and demand agains team United shall dominate. Lobotka or Nunes will suit more. Both of Lobotka and Nunes are more creative and better on the ball than Amrabat.
But against top teams in premier league. You know. United will might push back to counter. Then you need a top ball winner to break those attacks.

Personally i prefer a Lobotka or Nunes from Wolves. But if not. I will take Amrabat. And have 2 super creative nr.8 beside him.
The good thing with getting Nunes is to avoid City to get strength. Beside strenghten your team.

2 paths to go.
 

dannyrhinos89

OMG socks and sandals lol!
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
14,466
It's hard to believe it's come to that point AGAIN where we are scrambling to sign any old dosser on loan.

Weghorst vibes all over again.
 
Last edited:

Bojan Djordjic

Full Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
1,650
  • Burnley Social Media Team
  • Brighton Recruitment Team
  • Gianni Vio for the cheapest ten goals you can buy on the market
  • Ajax physical preparation team
  • Digger to fill in the stupid trench that surrounds the Old Trafford pitch - surprising no players have been killed yet.
 

Todd

Full Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
3,463
Location
Indiana, USA
---------------------Onana----------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
---------------X---------Martinez-------------
AWB--------------------------------------Shaw
------------------------------------------------------
-----------------Casemiro---------------------
------------------------------------------------------
-----------X-----------------Bruno--------------
------------------------------------------------------
X--------------------------------------Rashford
------------------------X----------------------------

Everywhere there's an X we need a new starter for next season.
 

FerociousCorgis

Full Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Messages
4,383
---------------------Onana----------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
---------------X---------Martinez-------------
AWB--------------------------------------Shaw
------------------------------------------------------
-----------------Casemiro---------------------
------------------------------------------------------
-----------X-----------------Bruno--------------
------------------------------------------------------
X--------------------------------------Rashford
------------------------X----------------------------

Everywhere there's an X we need a new starter for next season.
honestly id be surprised if casemiro is at starter level next season, and if he is still a starter for us the rest of the midfield better be humming cause he will need help and carrying there. Not whatever the hell we are doing so far with him in midfield where he is trying to carry the load.

And at this point you just have to be positive and put hojlund in that CF spot. If he isnt our starter there next season we have massively missed on that.
 

IRONTUSK

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 9, 2021
Messages
116
Are we still really that far off?
I`m hoping someone can convince me that we are not, but man it feels like there is a lot of work left to be done to even get us close to challenging for a premier league or champs league (by challenge I don`t mean finishing second 15 points off the top btw)
A few injuries and we suddenly look very threadbare.
We are scratching around for loan moves as we can`t afford players that are going for £25-30m which in todays market is literally peanuts (Pavard/Amrabat). I do get only looking at a LB on loan though.
We have been miss managed so badly up to the point that since Ten Hag came in we literally still need an entire rebuild but due to having players on ridiculous wages we can`t even do a rebuild as we are stuck with players he doesn`t even want.
We are still poor at shifting players for decent fee`s despite Saudi explosion and this window showing that transfer market is well and truly inflated.
 

Blackbeard

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 24, 2022
Messages
431
Supports
Bristol City
Are we just as screwed next year with ffp if the takeover doesn’t happen?
 

Redivy

Full Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2023
Messages
199
If it wasn’t for the financial situation I would’ve liked us to have looked at Mikel Merino out of Real Sociedad. I think he is such a good midfielder who can play that deeper playmaker role for us.

Lobotka I think will be the next big money midfielder move.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,908
Are we just as screwed next year with ffp if the takeover doesn’t happen?
I am trying not to contemplate another window where we have to scrimp again,however that's the likely outcome unless these leeches actually do sell up this year

Getting back on topic we still need minimum

RCB
RB
Backup DM (view to taking over)
Backup ST

Ideally

All round CM
Tricky RW
Backup LCB

Mad to think we still need SEVEN isn't it
 
Last edited:

groovyalbert

it's a mute point
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
9,733
Location
London
This window is the perfect demonstration why we will never succeed under the Glazers.

Last season is the ceiling of what we are able to achieve under their ownership.

If there's no movement on the club sale after the window, protests need to reach new levels of disruption on match days.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,908
This window is the perfect demonstration why we will never succeed under the Glazers.

Last season is the ceiling of what we are able to achieve under their ownership.

If there's no movement on the club sale after the window, protests need to reach new levels of disruption on match days.
Yeah we will stuck in mediocrity under these leeches,the protest last Saturday was good but like you say it needs to go up again
 

jesperjaap

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
5,756
I think we need the premiership fantasy football wildcard as this wondow for me is shockingly bad so far I fear. We can only really judge a summer transfer window a season or two on. My personal feeling is both under Ten Hag havent been great, some of it out of his control, ,some not.

For me the biggest problem has been the outgoings affecting our budget, coupled to over spendiing and in cases the wrong deals and poor loan deals.

We have moved on 18players in the last two summers.......for a grand total of about £62m ...Pretty much only Arsenal and Newcastle havent sold one or two players for more than that in total the last two seasons, we havent even sold anybody for £20m in that time, Henderson about to add to that £15m raising to £20m, again poor transfer moneywise....and there was lots of talk of possibly raising £150m this summer, we are going to be a good £70/80m short.

The simple truth is we simply ant be spending the fees we are on transfers with those incomings. Chelsea have spent £1b which is pure madness, but lets not forget they have also bought in about £300m in the same period...not modelling ourselves on them obviously but the story isnt so much wider than ours as a net spend when you look at it, its not much more than the two bgi midfield signings each summer.

Ass to that have we even bought well over these two summer?

Eriksen - Personally think his performances have been overplayed. He was free, he has been decent, but he is lacking for all the defensive elements of the role and it was very evident at times towards the end of last season. And lets be honest, is he going on beyong this summer, its another player to replace.

Malacia - I like these kind of deals, a pretty cheap squad option to develop as a back up and competition. Think he started off well, but tailed off the second half of last season and does need a lot of work, but cant really criticise....but is he good enough?

Martinez - Again cant get away from the fact, we overspent on the transfer. Look at the big Ajax sales the last couple of years, they are all around £35-45m. That being said for me he is the one bona fide quality signing last year in terms of a long term signing.

Casemeiro - for 2/3 of last season he was pure quality but this is a player who was the wrong side of 30 and we paid £0m for them. We onl know if thats a good signing over the next 2/3 seasons, but the form end of last season and early this, is a bit concerning, if he fades it isnt really a good deal when the likes of Fernandez and Caicdeo though not as good or experienced and higher and really ridiculosu fees.....they are signings for a decade, Casemeiro may be for 2seasons and there isnt the likely seel on value

Antony - I am in the minority seeing potential in him and dont think he has been as bad anyway as peopel are making out......but that doesnt get away from the fact, that was an absolutely ridiculous desperate fee that we paid....we paid more than Ajax got for FDJ and DeLigt who were amongst the very best in Europe when they moved......we paid more for ANtony?

Mount - Of course to early to judge, but I didnt get the signing at all and in the brief time we have seen of him, I am not at all surprised with how he has done and it has effected us....Eriksen didnt work there really, why will mount? ANd we paid £60m when he had a year left on his contract. See some people saying he has played a lot as an 8 under Lampard....yeah at Derbu in the championship, England and Chelsea he hasnt, I really think the ripples from this transfer and how it has affeced our spending and side, being the big target could well be the undoing of Ten Hags season

Onana - I think the fee is ok, he is a decent keeper and excellent with his feet. But all the stats quoters saying how poor DeGea is as a shot stopper, he had to go as he was poor the last 3months....but he did produce even last season some wonderful saves, I think we will see more mistakes from Onana this season than wonderful saves, could it be a case of careful what you wish for. I think he has the right personality though. Be interested to see how he does.

Hoijlund - Again we have overspent on the transfer and only time will tell. I get a good gut feeling with him though, only time will tell, but in a market short on quality strikers, I think this was probably a gamble had to be taken one way or another.

Again will take time to see how good a transfers these are but we have spent around £400m on them and I think only two look like really good signings over the mid term, let alone long term.

The two things coupled together makes bad net spending over the last two years and we are still a good four signings short I feel of what we need to do, which we cant....like last season we are now looking at cheap deals and loans....and I dont care what people say, last years loans were not a success, Sabitzer was ok but we didnt sign him....telling

And now we look like with an injury crisis when Malacia was already out long term, we loaned WIlliams out, a loan still, he is still our player, can we sell anyone?.....and we have Reguilion coming in....a player who looked lightweight at SPurs, decentish going forward but he cant defend.....isnt that a younger version of Telles who we have sold for nothing, dont we already have a younger version of that already in Fernandez? If we dont have faithin him in this emergency situation we should sell him. And I remember all these people wth the Dalot v AWB argument stating "DAlot is versatile he can also play left back, is probably better than Malacia there, also he is a good attacking full back"....he is neither, after one game we are desperate for a short term left back, why was he given a new contract.....there are literally loads of right backs that are better attacking wise than DAlot who would have been a similar price, I dont see what value he brings?

Go back a few months and all the names linked heavily with us and the players we have signed or players linekd where we havent even signed and the plaers that are still here, there is no quality second striker, no quality second centre back, for me no quality cm signing when we needed a big one (and Arambat isnt that player for me either_.....and why are so many of our signings or linked players Ten Hag has worked with before, where is the imagination?

The simple truth is pretty much all of our rivals have sold better than us and also bought better than us. Every single one of them has made at least one signing that would have been a fantastic signing for us.....we are actually on paper, further behind I feel as a squad, than we have been for 3/4 seasons, not just last year and fear the table could reflect this at the end of the season, top four would be a massive acheivement I feel.

Again its too early to judge but there are a few keeper loans or permanent signing within our league that are a simialr level to Onana and way cheaper and at least 9midfield signings that are far better for the role we have signed Mount for and cost the same fee or less, this is just within or league.

Again what we need is a premiership wildcard as this summer for what we NEEDED, what we have spent, who we have bought and who else coudl come in, is an utter shambles of regression against not jsut our rivals but sides that were several point below us last season.....and I dont htink will be this.

Rant over
 

Overhaul FC

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 19, 2023
Messages
254
-RCB to replace Maguire
-RB Frimpong to replace AWB/Dalot
-ST to replace Greenwood and Martial
-RW to replace Antony or Sancho if they don't lock the position down this season

The top 3 priorities are clear for next summer. RCB, RB and ST to complete the squad.

Hopefully VDB and Bailly leave this month to Turkey or Saudi clubs, atleast on loan to cover the wages for the year.

Then we continue to look to sell Maguire, McTominay, AWB/Dalot to help fund the next moves. We're on the verge of having a very good squad next summer. We're now in a position where we have to get rid of decent players for better players. Or get rid of players who can "do a job" for world class specialists.

If Greenwood was to return to us next season it could fix the backup striker issue. I wouldn't be surprised if Frimpong was already tapped up for a move next summer when he has one year left on his deal. Ten Hags a man with a plan for sure. He's looking to complete the squad next summer.
 

The-Mezzala

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
479
Centre back: Varane is injury prone. Maguire and Lindelof are not up to it.
Right Back: Dalot and AWB both average. Frimpong looks good
Box to Box midfielder: Beek, Mctominey should of been sold this summer. We still short in midfield as Eriksen is getting older and Mount was a strange signing
Striker: Hojlund looks incredibly good but still 19. Martial is a waste of space and again should of been shipped off somewhere this summer. Overalll club is still a long way off competing for the league title
 

RedOrange

Full Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
1,124
Are we just as screwed next year with ffp if the takeover doesn’t happen?
If I understand it correctly the biggest issue is the massive drop in revenue due to COVID. After this season we'll be there years removed from that, so things should go back to normal then.
 

Highfather_24

Full Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
2,726
CB (to replace Maguire)
RB (to replace AWB)
CM (to replace Eriksen)
CF (to replace Martial)
 

Blackbeard

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 24, 2022
Messages
431
Supports
Bristol City
If I understand it correctly the biggest issue is the massive drop in revenue due to COVID. After this season we'll be there years removed from that, so things should go back to normal then.
Ah ok thanks
 

aeh1991

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 13, 2022
Messages
891
the next priorities gotta be CB and FB:

- CB Jean-Clair Todibo or Antonio Silva: we need a long term raplacement for Varane
- LB Alphonso Davies: unlikely but worth a try since his contract ends 2025, offensively one of the best LB in the world
- RB Jeremie Frimpong: looks a realistic option and would massively improve us

I trust Mainoo to become our main CM
 

jesperjaap

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
5,756
See a lot of talk of us hampered by the financial situation, but did we actually sped prudently, we still spent over £190m on transfers this summer and also lets not forget we turned down £30m for McTominay from West Ham, so we could have spent £220m this summer. We also gave a new contract to Dalot last year, the player a lot keep saying is so much better than Bissaka as he is an attacking full back and can also play left back....yet we signed Regulion on loan.

Without going into players that havent moved like "We should have signed Caqeuret" for example, just looking at other deals in our league, I think we could have had a much better window with the money and contract situations elsewhere (yes may have been too late in the sxample I use, but this is the ideal). Of course the players may have chosen other clubs over us, but the window and money:

Out: McTominay £30m, Dalot £20m + £190m summer spend = £240m

GK Verbruggen £16.3m
GK Schmeichel Free
CB Bella-Kotchap Loan
CM Amrabat £10m loan fee
CM Alex McAllister £35m
ST Hoijlund £72m

£133.3m

Thats the same positions filled from tansfers that have happened this summer well over £50m less and if we add the outs on top that for me should and could have happened we still could have signed:

Pau Torres £33m
Livaramento £32m
Cucarella £7m loan deal
Joao Pedro £30m

Verbruggen/Schmeichel
Bissaka/Livaramento
Varane/Bella Kotchap
Martinez/Torres
Shaw/Cucarella
Casemeiro/Amrabat
McAllister/Mainoo
Fernandes/Eriksen
Rashford/Garnacho
Antony/Pellestri
Hoijlund/Pedro

Lindelof, Maguire, Hannibal, Malacia, Amad, Martial

Onana/Bayindir
Bissaka/DAlot
Varane/Lindelof
Martinez/Maguire
Shaw/Regulion
Casemeiro/Amrabat
Mount/Mainoo
Fernandes/Eriksen
Rashford/Garnacho
Antony/Pellestri
Hoijlund/Martial

McTominay, Hannibal, Malacia, Amad

Second eleven and furter squad option in terms of an injury criisis are like chalk and cheese and this is just an example of what we could have done from what our league has, without even mentioning other deals in Europe or players havent moved I would have liked us to sign.

So I dont buy into the financial situation, for me £107m on Onana and Mount isnt great business. We have seen other keepers like Vicario also moving for far less and Raya on loan and the likes of Gravenburch, Matteus Nunes, Lavia, Maddison all moving for less than Mount.

Regardless of the financial situation and being hampered with the likes of Maguire and VDB, we could have spent our money more wisely, sold better and the Glazers and FPP though both issues, dont wash with me as why we have failed to bring in and strengthen as much as we wanted to this summer, they are washing over the fact that we have over spent on our signings, some were not the right ones even and we COULD have done far more with the money this summer
 

RedRonaldo

Wishes to be oppressed.
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Messages
18,996
GK - Onana, Bayindir

RB - AWB, Dalot
CB - Varane, Lindelof
CB - Martinez, Maguire
LB - Shaw, Malacia
(we will definitely need a new CB to replace Maguire and rotate with Varane, who seems always injured)

DM - Casemiro, Mctominay, Mainoo
CM - Amrabat, Eriksen, Mainoo
AM - Bruno, Mount
(With aging of Casemiro and Eriksen, and Mctominay probably not staying as backup for long, we definitely need new replacement there. Mainoo can be answer for 6/8 role, but we definitely need a strong DM battler there too)

RW - Antony, Sancho, Diallo, Pellistri
CF - Hojlund, Rashford, Martial
LW - Rashford, Garnacho, Sancho
(Fully expect Martial to leave next summer, we will need another CF to rotate with Hojlund)

I know Antony and Sancho isn’t quite yet up to expectation, but they are both young and talented, we just need to find a way to work with these expensive signings. Surprise to see how well Elanga performs for Forest, and I don’t believe they would do any less than Elanga.
 
Last edited:

jesperjaap

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
5,756
Are we still really that far off?
I`m hoping someone can convince me that we are not, but man it feels like there is a lot of work left to be done to even get us close to challenging for a premier league or champs league (by challenge I don`t mean finishing second 15 points off the top btw)
A few injuries and we suddenly look very threadbare.
We are scratching around for loan moves as we can`t afford players that are going for £25-30m which in todays market is literally peanuts (Pavard/Amrabat). I do get only looking at a LB on loan though.
We have been miss managed so badly up to the point that since Ten Hag came in we literally still need an entire rebuild but due to having players on ridiculous wages we can`t even do a rebuild as we are stuck with players he doesn`t even want.
We are still poor at shifting players for decent fee`s despite Saudi explosion and this window showing that transfer market is well and truly inflated.
Personally, I feel the squad is much better than last season, but I am not convinced th first eleven has been significantly improved bar Hoijlund....and considering Weghorst was the only striking option for a lot of it, hardly difficult.

But I dont evn feel the squad is significantly improved where it actually needed to be, it shas just been improved in areas we have replaced players in.

If we go back to the star of the window, a pretty general consensus would have been:

DeGea replacement - Onana
New attackign right back - Not Done
New back up centre back - Johnny Evans.....as good as not done
Casemeiro back up - Arambat
New Number 8 - Mount.....poor choice for that role
Starting CF: Hoijlund....though I have a good feeling on him, huge fee and he was kind of talked as the second choice cf signing
Second CF signing: Not done and Greenwood moved on so literally just Martial is the option....again

My initial feeling is we wil regret not signing a cb, Mount wont work as a number 8 and if there are injuries or a struggle settling in for Hoijlund, we will also regret not signing a second striker, I think we have failed in 3 of the 5 main priorities this summer.

On top of that, looking at the business our competitors have done, I fear another post CL qualification season to be one of regression and nefativity....and pressure on the manager
 

Devil You Know

New Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2023
Messages
1,225
Location
bed
We never should have made ageing stars like Casemiro and Varane the backbone of our rebuild. It's meant we're metaphorically having to walk upwards on a downward facing escalator.

They were only ever going to be good for a couple of seasons, which was never long enough to build a title challenging team. So by the time the squad would get anywhere close to being good enough, we'd only need to sell them and start the rebuild all over again. It's been a false sense of progress because it temporarily stopped the decline. But it does very little to help the ascent. Players like them can be the final boost we need to reach the summit, but any stage before that and they'll eventually turn into deadweight we need to carry.

I think we're at least 2 summers away from challenging, and that's only if those 2 summers go perfectly and all our young players kick on.

Ideally, we would sell:
Casemiro
Varane
Maguire
Lindelof
Bailly
Malacia or Dalot, whoever proves to be worse in the long run
VdB
Mejbri
Eriksen
Martial
Sancho
Antony
Pellestri or Amad, whoever proves to be worse in the long run

And buy:
Evan Ferguson or equivalent CF talent
Second choice CF
First choice RCB
Second choice RCB
Second choice LCB
First choice RB
First choice DM

Given the number of changes, it won't happen until at least 2025 or 2026 even in a fantasy scenario where everything is smooth sailing.

But it could mean a squad like this:

Onana-------------------------Altay
First choice RB-----------AWB
First choice RCB---------Second choice RCB
Martinez---------------------Second choice LCB
Shaw--------------------------Dalot/Malacia
First choice DM----------McTominay
Amrabat---------------------Mainoo
Bruno-------------------------Mount
Rashford--------------------Garnacho
Ferguson-------------------Second choice CF
Rasmus---------------------Amad/Pellistri

Without pulling out my crystal ball, I think that looks good as long as the purchases aren't duds. But I'm probably going to be wrong with most of my predictions about our current squad, just like everyone else in this thread.
 
Last edited:

Borussia Teeth

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
551
We never should have made ageing stars like Casemiro and Varane the backbone of our rebuild. It's meant we're metaphorically having to walk upwards on a downward facing escalator.

They were only ever going to be good for a couple of seasons, which was never long enough to build a title challenging team. So by the time the squad would get anywhere close to being good enough, we'd only need to sell them and start the rebuild all over again.
I agree with all of this! Yet many on here wanted to add Kane to our list of golden oldies
 

Bwuk

Full Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
17,389
Onana
XXX - XXX - Martinez - XXX
Casemiro - XXX
XXX - Bruno - Rashford
Hojlund​

For me that's what we've got to work with as starters for next year.

Amad/Mainoo/Garnacho/Mount might force the issue for their respective position. Casemiro will be 32 though and should be looked to be phased out as a starter.

Without a Qatari takeover we'll continue to be miles off.
 

JJ12

Predicted Portugal, Italy to win Euro 2016, 2020
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
10,947
Location
Wales
I’m at the point where I think new owners need to come in and blow it all up and start afresh. Keep 5-10 players maybe but we need a summer or 2 like Chelsea’s and get through the teething issues that will cause.

We’ve been papering over cracks for far too long.
 

Houdini

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 20, 2017
Messages
2,196
CB (backup)
RB (first choice)
DM first choice Case replacement
no8 first choice Eriksen replacement (Mount is a Bruno backup he does not fit the no8 role)
ST first choice
RW - not a priority if Antony can sort his shit
 

hobbers

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
28,557
RB to be first choice, and sell off one of the two mediocre ones
RCB to replace Maguire and push Varane to backup
Deep lying midfielder to push Casemiro to backup
Winger to replace Sancho and oust Antony
Striker to replace Martial and compete with/play alongside Hojlund

The good news is that if we can somehow get rid of Maguire, Martial and Sancho by the end of summer 2024 that would be £40m per year off the wage bill. Also a decent chance of Varane and/or Case being Saudi League players in 24/25
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
58,132
Location
Canada
So given the off field issues the last 2 days... There's a very real question over how much longer Antony and Sancho will play for us this season. Might be fine all season. Might be out of the squad after the break. If we entertain that scenario ..
Rashford Hojlund
Mount Bruno
Amrabat Casemiro
Shaw Martinez Varane Wan Bissaka
Onana

Martial
Garnacho Amad Pellistri
McTominay Mainoo
Malacia Lindelof Maguire Dalot
Altay
Sub reguillon for Shaw til Shaw returns of course. Not the end of the world to be honest if neither Sancho or Antony are unavailable. Would just be a system change that has us either shift Bruno or Mount bit more to the right, but could do a more narrow formation and have Rashford and Hojlund form a strong duo. Or just Garnacho/Amad start more. Either way, still have 6 attackers and 6 midfielders so we can get a starting and backup 11 in there. Good thing Pellistri and Amad didn't get sent out on loan!
 

prateik

Full Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
42,200
Sancho and Antony gone.. Good thing Pellistri and Amad are still at the club.
Mount on the right I suppose as first choice.. Rashford on the left..

We need wingers.. more wingers.
 

NoPace

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
9,438
I'd feel good about this team possibly mounting a title challenge:

Hojlund/Striker
Rashford/Garnacho
RW/Antony
Bruno/Mount
#8/Eriksen
Casemiro/Amrabat
Shaw/LB
RB/
Wan-Bissaka
Lisandro/LCB
Varane/RCB
Onana/GK2

-It's possible that Bayindir is good enough to be the backup GK, I have no idea.
-#8 is still a bit dodgy depth-wise, but Amrabat and Eriksen are different enough profile-wise that if you got close to a full season from the new starter, you'd be okay platooning them
-No idea how ready Hojlund is, so if he struggles then make him the backup and sign a starting player
-Ideally Malacia would have had a breakout season with Shaw out, and I like his potential as a FB who can tuck in because he's composed on the ball.

So that's at minimum 3 new starting players, one CB who can cover both sides (a right-footer since Shaw has done well at LCB) but really 5 serious signings including the striker and CB. It's a lot, but selling Sancho, McTominay, one of Pellistri or Amad and Maguire should raise decent funds, and not paying Martial also might help.

In order, I'd put it it like this:

Absolute imperative:
1 - #8 , I think Amrabat will be a solid backup for Casemiro but becoming a quality #8 seems somewhat unlikely and I don't trust Mount there. Eriksen will be a year older, like the rest of us
2 - CB, we have 2.5 since Shaw is good there, but that's not enough
3 - Backup striker, we just don't have a body here and Rashford being the 3rd option at striker seems about right, even if Garnacho needs minutes out left

Probably need to upgrade
4 - RB, Wan-Bissaka can defend and Dalot might still improve at his age

Lowest priority
5 - RW, Antony is still young so might come good, Garnacho might be a star and if he is he's gotta play somewhere and maybe with an attacking RB signed for a bit of width, a left-footed striker in Hojlund and Bruno sometimes going right from his spot in a midfield 3 we could play Garnacho as sort of an inside right. Amad also has lots of talent so always possible he makes a leap, a lot of players who did as well as him in the Champo at a similar age have had good Prem careers.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,893
Location
England
Even without Sancho and Antony there's potentially good options in the current team. I think once all the players are back in contention to start games, the team looks interesting. And I think come the end of the season we'll be able to be more precise on what is required to take the next step, which I feel is going to be a big one potentially.

Below is a 433/4231 shape which changes to 3241 high up the pitch. And the fullbacks will take turns either going high and wide or form part of a back 3 in rest defense. I've selected Dalot here but we can also go with AWB.


4231

----------------------Hojlund-------------------
--Rashford-------Bruno-------Mount----
-----------Casemiro----Amrabat-------------
---Shaw----Martinez----Varane----Dalot-
----------------------Onana--------------

3241 shape high in the opponent's half

-----------------------Hojlund-------------------
--Rashford------Bruno------Mount---Dalot--
-----------Casemiro-------Amrabat-------------
------Shaw------Martinez------Varane---------
----------------------Onana---------------

I would rotate Mainoo and Hannibal with the deeper and more advanced midfielders. And have Amad and Pellistri as options for the wide forward positions. Hannibal was sent on loan to a team last season that played a very direct style of play which was centred around getting the ball to big battering rams upfront like Hogan and Deeney. But I feel if he's utilised in a team that aims to play the through the thirds, we will see a much better player. Matheus Nunes who recently joined City from Wolves was a young player who couldn't even break into the Estoril first team at the age of 20. And SCP bought him for peanuts at the age of 20 and he spent a season in their u23 team before he was given a chance by Ruben Amorim at the age of 21.


I think depending on how things go with the existing players. I would personally hope we sign 4 players to add to the team above. I would look to upgrade on both Casemiro and Varane and also look to move McTominay on and replace him with someone like Amadou Onana who has the physical and athletic capabilities to make us unpredictable due to his ability to win aerial/ground duels aswell as him having the ability to dribble/carry the ball.

If we had wealthy owners I'd look to sign the below players for next season. And not only would the players below potentially raise the technical level in the team but they also would raise the level when it comes to controlling the game out of possession in rest defense due to their physicality and athleticism which is very important imo.

Todibo (CB/RB)

Ousmane Diomande (CCB) commander type who can play the central role in a back three and push the back line up.

Amadou Onana (CM) box to box CM who can carry/dribble really well as well as being very strong at defending transitions and dominating aerially.


Arthur Vermeeren (DM) He's showing high potential in the role and would be a good pick up if we can add the aforementioned players who would aid him when it comes to the physical levels. He's expected to move next season at 19 years of age and we're said to be in the mix for his signature.

Martial may also be moved on, so a replacement for him would also be required next season. So it might be a case of prioritising either Todibo or Diomande.
 

Von Mistelroum

Full Member
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
4,085
I would say that it depends what we're building for. I think for what the Glazers want (which would be top 4 or whatever gets us into the CL each year) we need a couple of decent CB's as backup, a decent right back, and probably a right winger who can beat a man.

If we're talking a title challenge, then we'd need owners who care about the club, senior management who know something about football, a team of new scouts and then we would need to replace all the players who wouldn't be good enough for teams like City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Madrid etc. So that would be a lot of them and would include probably 70-80% of our squad.
 

jesperjaap

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
5,756
The horrible thing with this thread currently, is the positions people are saying we need to fill ext summer are still 4 of the 7 main ones that were listed at the beginning of the window.

So basically we have spent £200m odd and addressed only three of our biggest concerrns? Personally I would go further, unless Mainoo and/or Hannibal are given opportunites and thrive on them which I think they can, we may still well need a number 8 and despite the footwork, not 100% confident Onana long term will be the answer.

I thought last summer Martinez was the only proper long term quality signing as good as Casemeiro was, have to worry about his age....and for me this summer Hoijlund is the only oe I have a lot of confidence in beign a great signing, even though we over spent on both.

Not only that, bit weird to think if the latest problems intensify......Antony/Sancho both may not have a future here, we are left with Pellestri and Amad.....we may even be looking for another right winger, a position we have spent a fortune on over the last few years
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,893
Location
England
The horrible thing with this thread currently, is the positions people are saying we need to fill ext summer are still 4 of the 7 main ones that were listed at the beginning of the window.

So basically we have spent £200m odd and addressed only three of our biggest concerrns? Personally I would go further, unless Mainoo and/or Hannibal are given opportunites and thrive on them which I think they can, we may still well need a number 8 and despite the footwork, not 100% confident Onana long term will be the answer.

I thought last summer Martinez was the only proper long term quality signing as good as Casemeiro was, have to worry about his age....and for me this summer Hoijlund is the only oe I have a lot of confidence in beign a great signing, even though we over spent on both.

Not only that, bit weird to think if the latest problems intensify......Antony/Sancho both may not have a future here, we are left with Pellestri and Amad.....we may even be looking for another right winger, a position we have spent a fortune on over the last few years
I think we addressed the issues of last season by raising the level of the team in the first phase by signing Onana, Amrabat and including Mainoo in the team with the aim of developing him to be a press resistant midfielder who will potentially help us progress the ball via his passing and ball carrying.

The Mount signing was to beef up the advanced areas of midfield imo where his out of possession game in particular was likely seen as something we required to enforce the press and thwart opposition transitions. But unfortunately we haven't had the opportunity to include Amrabat and Mainoo yet, which will help the more advanced players due to the progression potential both Mainoo and Amrabat provide from deeper midfield positions.

We've also signed Hojlund who imo was the correct player to sign due to his attributes being a fit for the way ten Hag wants to play. He's a focal point with pace and power in abundance along with the ability to hold the ball and win physical duels.

So if the aim is to develop the team to be more dominant in possession whilst also raising the level out of possession, then it's a good start with the four new signings and Mainoo, who potentially raise the level in different phases of play. But we still need to improve further in certain areas, which my previous post alluded to. But when everyone is fit I think we'll have a good team. And Amrabat is a very good player and I believe he will make a difference for us.

Mainoo, Hojlund and possibly Hannibal are young inexperienced players, so I can understand people being a little apprehensive about them. Particularly about Mainoo and Hannibal, but these are the type of young players that should be given a chance due to what they can provide on the ball.
 

KikiDaKats

Full Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Messages
2,607
Location
Salford
Supports
His Liverpool supporting wife
Our needs will continue grow every season, unless we start signing players to threaten the starters. Though we have glaring gaps but complacency at this club is the biggest problem.

Two CB
Both should be good enough to displace Martinez and Varane. I remember saying KMJ was not coming to us because no top player will move to a club for an understudy role. We need to stop looking at players for backup roles, it’s not appealing.

A Central Midfielder
Ideally, my focus will be towards a captain in a mid-bottom position club u24 years old. Character is the word for me.

Left Back & Right Back
Competition for Shaw because I believe he a poor fullback and a better CB. We need to revisit our fullbacks now, not a single one of our guys is industrious barring Malacia who is quite limited in other areas.

Our key players need to start feeling the heat, they either step it up or get demoted to backups. That’s how top football clubs operate.
 

Isotope

Ten Years a Cafite
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
23,656
...3241 shape high in the opponent's half

-----------------------Hojlund-------------------
--Rashford------Bruno------Mount---Dalot--
-----------Casemiro-------Amrabat-------------
------Shaw------Martinez------Varane---------
----------------------Onana---------------
That would be instantly our best formation in the last decade. I've always wanted us an attacking RB, and he'd fit in nicely in that formation also.