What is a 'World-Class' footballer?

[Raees]

I find this one of the most frustrating terms in football. Do I think it needs to be done away with? No as it does have value in the sense it helps us elevate one group of footballers above another and that can be useful in determining quality. However it has become a caricature of itself, and is wildly thrown around under the guise of club bias and far too much credit is given to the fact someone is a 'club legend' or dominated a particular league. When a player is on a wave of form, they named 'World Class' and if a player goes out of form or is past their peak, people forget that they were 'world class' it is just they are no longer operating at the same level.

My own definition is as follows and I would be keen to hear your official definitions and whether it has evolved over the years. Is there a possibility of producing an official redcafe definition using a poll?

• Need to have a consistent body of high quality work against high calibre opposition in latter stages of international and/or continental club tournaments (Dependent on their team context i.e. lesser expectations on a player who features for minnow nation/small club)
• Needs to have performed for a minimum of 2-3 years/or tournament occasions (not necessarily in consecutive years - dips in form are permitted)
• Won 1 trophy as a bare minimum
• Need to be an important member of their side (relative to their position - do not need to be a 'matchwinner')
• ‘Talent’ level is irrelevant, effectiveness is relevant.
• Generally recognised as a top 2-5 player in their position at the time of asking (dependant on depth of quality in a particular era - this can be flexible) .
• ‘Respect’ Factor, are they feared by their opponents or acknowledged as a top player by their peers.

For me a world class player possesses the above characteristics. For me Bruno Fernandes would be someone I classify as a potential world class player but not someone who meets that definition as of yet, whereas De Bruyne as satisfied the definition.

Your thoughts?

 

[red4ever 79]

In the top three in their position in the world. Plus someone who is consistently at that level for 2-3 years

 

[Carl]

Agree with most of that apart from the "must have won a trophy" bit.

You're probably over thinking too. I would consider someone to be world class if they would get into most top European teams.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

For me the term gets confused.

In my opinion, world class players are players who are in the top 2-4 of their respective positions. So if there was a 25 man UCL dream team, these guys should be in it.

3 GKs
2 RB
2 LB
4 CB
2 RW
2 LW
2 DMF
2 AMF
2 CM
4 ST

Fill in that team and you have a world class squad.

A few world class players (past or present), which will be no surprise to anyone are: CR7, Neuer, Messi, Lahm, Henry, Keane etc

Some players occasionally put in world class performances (Pogba) or have a short run where they feel like they are world class players (Ozil) but for me, there has to be consistency. At least 4 years or so at the top.

 

[Vidyoyo]

I take issue because I believe any player who makes a great contribution in a top league should be considered world class, especially so if they move to a different country to do it.

When you think about how many footballers there are across the world and then how few of those are making a contribution at the top level for the top teams... the criteria is more specific but probably bigger than what we suggest.

Elite is a better term for those top 2-5 players in their position IMO.

I'd also suggest that this only happens because we're removed from the ins and outs of football players. You would think the commitment and dedication, even of those middling players we'd never consider world class, is still very intense.

Edit - Perhaps a better way to express it is to say, if there's 200,000 footballers across the planet and 200 of them are the best then surely those are the World Class ones? Not the 25 or so we usually think.

 

[Dancfc]

For me the term gets confused.

In my opinion, world class players are players who are in the top 2-4 of their respective positions. So if there was a 25 man UCL dream team, these guys should be in it.

3 GKs
2 RB
2 LB
4 CB
2 RW
2 LW
2 DMF
2 AMF
2 CM
4 ST

Fill in that team and you have a world class squad.

A few world class players (past or present), which will be no surprise to anyone are: CR7, Neuer, Messi, Lahm, Henry, Keane etc

Some players occasionally put in world class performances (Pogba) or have a short run where they feel like they are world class players (Ozil) but for me, there has to be consistency. At least 4 years or so at the top.

Can it really be limited to just those numbers though?

For example if Cech, Kahn, Schmeichel, Neuer and Yashin were all the same era does that mean two of them wouldn't be world class?

 

[Bastian]

I don't think there's a quota on those players, i.e. only the top 2-3 in a given position. For me it is someone who is a top player and can be relied on to consistently produce, i.e. their bottom level is not low.

Excluding this season, the last two seasons I'd say Liverpool had 6 of their first XI in that bracket with the full backs, VVD, Allison, Mane and Salah.

For us over the last 7 years you'd say de Gea for a period and then Bruno since his arrival. It doesn't mean de Bruyne isn't better than all those players (which I think he definitely is), but the description is a lot more loose than "there can only be 3 world class right backs" or whatever. And a player can be world class for a while and then regress (de Gea case in point).

Going back further we had quite a lot of those players, Scholes, Keane, Becks, Giggs, Stam, Vidic, Rio, Evra, Schmeichel, van der Sar, Ruud, Ronnie, Rooney, and I'd argue Carrick too.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

It's a bollocks term in the first place - could mean whatever you want.

I've always liked this, though (sort of):

* Two teams comprised of the best players in the world, based on performances over at least one full season.
* World Cup style squads.

If you make either squad, you're "world class".

In other words - there are multiple players (but not MANY) in any given position who are "world class" at any given time.

"World class" is not a permanent tag or title - an historically great player (who is now over the hill) may not be "world class" at this point in time.

ETA

To make it clearer: imagine that you're in charge of picking a squad for a World Cup style tournament - but without being restricted to picking players from just one nation. You just pick the best possible squad from players that are active at the given time. Who makes it?

Then imagine doing the same thing again - with a second squad.

Anyone making the cut is "world class".

That would mean, in practice, that the 3rd choice goal keeper in the second squad is - indeed - "world class". Which strikes me as fair. If you're the 6th best player in your position in the entire world - you deserve that title. You're a player who wouldn't look out of place in any top team, etc.

 

[hungrywing]

Can it really be limited to just those numbers though?

For example if Cech, Kahn, Schmeichel, Neuer and Yashin were all the same era does that mean two of them wouldn't be world class?

Bingo.

Best definition of "World Class" is probably "Could play for any team in the world in any era."

For the bottom 99.999% of clubs these players are obvious shoo-ins. And from there, any of the top teams in any era would take them. For example: "Would peak Ajax take __________?"

So if one is limiting oneself to one particular era, you just drop the 'in any era' from above to get: "And from there, any of the top teams would take them." For example: "Would Bayern/Juve/Madrid/Liverpool/United/Barca without exception take __________?"

 

[Ish]

No hard/fast rule but the OP has the jist of it. Trophies are important but like any rule of life, there’d be exceptions. Same as the 25 man dream team squad in subsequent posts. I.e there might be a position with 5-6 world class players in it, but depending on generation, you might struggle to find 1-2 world class players in another position. Spain, at one point, seemed to possess 5-6 world class midfielders alone

But yeah, the term is often overused and thrown around leisurely. Bruno is a perfect example. He’s not world class yet, but has put in some world class performances. Needs to maintain and do it for longer and winning trophies would help.

 

[Ish]

by the same definition, would Cantona qualify as world class? @Raees

Think United fans would be pretty unanimous (or overwhelming majority!) that he was but he didn’t meet the criteria of continental dominance, did he?

 

[hungrywing]

Also, "World-class" ability exists on a spectrum like anything else.

At any given time there are probably around 50-70 "World Class" players based on the previous personal definition.

I wouldn't be surprised if certain professional scouts/data people have up to triple that number based on personal philosophy regarding team composition.

 

[Raees]

by the same definition, would Cantona qualify as world class? @Raees

Think United fans would be pretty unanimous (or overwhelming majority!) that he was but he didn’t meet the criteria of continental dominance, did he?

Doesn’t meet the world class requirements for me. World class talent? Absolutely - insanely gifted and a league legend but on the world stage? Achieved nothing of note.

For me world class means above just domestic dominance - that should be a bare minimum.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Top 5 in the world in their position.

It’s easier to be a world class left back then a world class left winger.

So, to quantify what im saying, Rashford is a better footballer than Shaw, but Shaw is closer to world class than Rashford. On current form I would argue Shaw is world class. Make sense?

 

[roonster09]

Perform at high level consistently. I don't like how "will he make World 11", "Will he make world 11 squad to make on Mars 11" definitions.

 

[Ish]

Doesn’t meet the world class requirements for me. World class talent? Absolutely - insanely gifted and a league legend but on the world stage? Achieved nothing of note.

For me world class means above just domestic dominance - that should be a bare minimum.

Interesting and fair enough bro

 

[eire-red]

Can it really be limited to just those numbers though?

For example if Cech, Kahn, Schmeichel, Neuer and Yashin were all the same era does that mean two of them wouldn't be world class?

I agree with your point. Cech, van der Sar, Buffon, Casillas, Victor Valdez were all world class goalies during the 2000's at the height of their powers.

There should be a metric, but not a quota. If there are 10 world class strikers at any one time, 5 can't be 'not world class' because they're a minuscule level below or something. Kane is a level below Lewandowski. If there were 5 strikers at the same level of Lewandowski in the world right now, is Kane not world class?

 

[Renegade]

In the top three in their position in the world. Plus someone who is consistently at that level for 2-3 years

So there can only be 3 world class strikers at a time?

Who wasn’t world class from this group in the early 2000s?

Henry
RVN
Shevchenko
Raul
Ronaldo
Del Piero
Crespo
Owen
Eto’o
Adriano
Zlatan

 

[eire-red]

Doesn’t meet the world class requirements for me. World class talent? Absolutely - insanely gifted and a league legend but on the world stage? Achieved nothing of note.

For me world class means above just domestic dominance - that should be a bare minimum.

Interesting take, and I appreciate you have your barometer and stick by it. Luck and situational influences surely has a lot to play in a players career too. Cantona and Man Utd was a match made in heaven, at that time. But his impact outside of his time at United wasn't substantial.

Makes you wonder if he had the same luck with France, such as right time, right manager and all that, would things have been different? He was coming towards the end of his career when the French NT was coming to the fore.

 

[Norman Brownbutter]

A world class player is like a beautiful woman. You can spend all day trying to describe that beauty, but at the end of the day you just know it when you see it.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Dominant on the pitch.

Hard to stop and/or get past, and able to come out on top against their opposite number at least 8 times out of 10.

 

[Spaghetti]

It means really really good and they would get in most teams in the world. It doesn’t need to be so strict. We are not at school.

It is also subjective, of course.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

So, to quantify what im saying, Rashford is a better footballer than Shaw, but Shaw is closer to world class than Rashford. On current form I would argue Shaw is world class. Make sense?

Pretty much, yes.

As you mention, it will be more difficult to reach "world class" status for certain positions. Similar to my "two world squads" model mentioned above, it will normally take more to make it into those squads for an attacker than it would for a goal keeper.

And precisely what it takes to be "world class" in your position will vary from time to time.

One could perhaps say that if Luke Shaw is "world class", this indicates that the overall level of LBs in the world isn't all that at the moment. But that isn't an argument against Shaw being "world class" (at this point in time - but I would say, again, that there has to be an evaluation period: you can't be "world class" based on a nice run of form over some weeks).

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

A world class player is like a beautiful woman. You can spend all day trying to describe that beauty, but at the end of the day you just know it when you see it.

Which is just saying that it is subjective. You could take an objective term like won CL plus world cup and you get only a few players having ever done that. Or reach final in both etc so Modric, Griezmann, Pogba would count.

 

[Norman Brownbutter]

Which is just saying that it is subjective. You could take an objective term like won CL plus world cup and you get only a few players having ever done that. Or reach final in both etc so Modric, Griezmann, Pogba would count.

It is, and it isnt. Theres preference, and then theres those among us that have that, as the French would say, I dont know what.

 

[giorno]

A player who is significantly better than the majority of his peers and has a big impact/influence on his team's performance and results

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

It is, and it isnt. Theres preference, and then theres those among us that have that, as the French would say, I dont know what.

Some may say Bruno. Sancho, Haaland, Lukaku, Immobile are world class and others do not. If you rate it by big titles won they would not be. If going by world cup win Messi would not be.

Also some players may have been great when they won things, but are not so great anymore say Cavani may not be seen as world class anymore. Same with Ibra although he is performing at high level still.

Right now you can even say Messi is not world class this season if based on being in a world 11 or world 22 etc.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

For example if Cech, Kahn, Schmeichel, Neuer and Yashin were all the same era does that mean two of them wouldn't be world class?

Not according to my model.

But let's throw, say, Maier and Zoff into the mix:

Two squads of the best available players in the world - World Cup style - at a given point in time.

Well? If all the above are available at their peak - then Cech doesn't make it. Simple enough. He was very good, but happened to compete - at the same point in time - with at least six players who were better. But if just one of the others happened to be a bit past their prime - then, presto, prime Cech would probably/arguably make the cut.

Extremely unlikely scenario - but there you go. In theory, a player might be very good without ever being "world class" at any point during his career.

Point being that "world class" (if the term is to have any meaning) has to refer to the here-and-now to a great extent.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Also - trophies won and whatnot...that's obviously irrelevant. If "world class" depends on that, you're being lazy - and, well, I'd say you're just doing it wrong.

If you're tasked with picking the best available players in the world for a (hypothetical) team - you won't look exclusively at what trophies they've won. That would be idiotic. Brilliant players do end up at unsuccessful teams - that happens rather frequently.

 

[Norman Brownbutter]

Some may say Bruno. Sancho, Haaland, Lukaku, Immobile are world class and others do not. If you rate it by big titles won they would not be. If going by world cup win Messi would not be.

Also some players may have been great when they won things, but are not so great anymore say Cavani may not be seen as world class anymore. Same with Ibra although he is performing at high level still.

Right now you can even say Messi is not world class this season if based on being in a world 11 or world 22 etc.

Youre over complicating it.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Youre over complicating it.

I personally say someone is world class after they performed very well normally in a hard game. World class performance is a top performance which is subjective.

 

[Norman Brownbutter]

I personally say someone is world class after they performed very well normally in a hard game. World class performance is a top performance which is subjective.

k

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Can it really be limited to just those numbers though?

For example if Cech, Kahn, Schmeichel, Neuer and Yashin were all the same era does that mean two of them wouldn't be world class?

Of course in certain circumstances you can argue it, especially with players that are so close in quality but World Class needs to be the absolute best of the best.

Let's say two of the GKs were clearly the best and the third spot is between Big Pete and Neuer... You would have to discuss who is better with stats as well as attributes.

Otherwise, too many players are called world class and the term loses its meaning.

 

[Kag]

It’s a childish term that probably shouldn’t be used by anybody over the age of twelve.

 

[Oranges038]

World class player, someone who is the top 2 or 3 players in their position in the world over an extended period, and consistently performs at a top level for 3 at least years or more.

 

[GifLord]

It’s a childish term that probably shouldn’t be used by anybody over the age of twelve.

The term's been way too overused by fans and pundits.

 

[dal]

A player who gets into a 25 man world squad for a consistent period, let’s just say two years, as that’s what we see as someone who has proven themselves.

Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Vidic, Schemeical, VDS, Van Nistelrooy, Bruno, Rooney, Ronaldo.

All world class.

giggs, Scholes, Rooney, ronaldo, VDS, Rio, Vidic, were all in one team aswell!

 

[Gio]

@Raees Perhaps the challenge is to boil down a definition to a couple of lines. Is it simply about a player who can be relied upon to perform at the highest level?

So there can only be 3 world class strikers at a time?

Who wasn’t world class from this group in the early 2000s?

Henry
RVN
Shevchenko
Raul
Ronaldo
Del Piero
Crespo
Owen
Eto’o
Adriano
Zlatan

If we say this is 2000-2003, I would take out Del Piero (never world class after his knee injury in 1998 IMO), Adriano, Zlatan and Eto'o (all of whom didn't hit their stride until the middle of the decade). Any later than 2003 and I would take out Owen, Ronaldo and Raul from the mix. So maybe 6 out of that list? Cases too for Batistuta up to about 2001 and then Roy Makaay shortly after. Of course arguably that's two positions - support strikers or roaming forwards like Henry or Raul, and classic no9s like RVN and Owen.

But yes I agree that a maximum number in any position is too restrictive. A 23-man squad to face Mars as Pete used to say gives you a little more flexibility to take account of concentrations of talent in different positions, without lowering the bar too much.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Current world 11 with world class players. So these are the lot. Maybe could pick someone better than Pavard and Henderson, but noone obvious that have won things recently. Probably Goretzka for Henderson.

Neuer
Pavard Ramos Marquinhos Davies
Kimmich Henderson
De Bruyne
Ronaldo Lewandowski Neymar

 

[RooneyLegend]

World class players are great players. All that meeting criteria stuff is nonsense. If you've watched football long enough you start to get the feel for what's a great player and what's a very good player.

Those that limit it numerically don't make sense. Sometimes there's an abundance world wide in a particular position while there's a shortage in the other. We aren't going to go around labelling players world class due to a dearth of talent in a position.