What is our problem ?

the hea

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Squad quality is about 6th or 7th in league and the manager is no better either so I don't see how anyone is expecting anything better than this. A decade of mismanagement of the club by the people in charge has brought us here and until we find some good enough people to lead the club nothing will improve. The manager and squad quality are the symptoms but the real problem has always been higher up.
 

Pughnichi

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If FPL is anything to go by the most selected Utd player….is Onana. He’s 27th on the list

you have to scroll further to find our second most selected and outfield player. Marcus Rashford dwindling down in 37th

not even fantasy managers want Utd players anymore!!
 

Leftback99

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Squad quality is about 6th or 7th in league and the manager is no better either so I don't see how anyone is expecting anything better than this. A decade of mismanagement of the club by the people in charge has brought us here and until we find some good enough people to lead the club nothing will improve. The manager and squad quality are the symptoms but the real problem has always been higher up.
I accept the squad quality argument but it's not enough to excuse performing like a relegation level side most weeks.

We are very lucky to be 6th even if that's about right for our squad. Xg has us 12th.
 

Hammondo

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I accept the squad quality argument but it's not enough to excuse performing like a relegation level side most weeks.

We are very lucky to be 6th even if that's about right for our squad. Xg has us 12th.
We don't value our midfield, we don't seem to value controlling the ball and it annoys me. Mainoo is great, mctom is pretty useless in midfield, little to no impact, and Bruno is never in midfield.
 

Musclehead

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I accept the squad quality argument but it's not enough to excuse performing like a relegation level side most weeks.

We are very lucky to be 6th even if that's about right for our squad. Xg has us 12th.
It comes down to the manager, the expectation of players and how you deal with those players that don't meet the expectation. Right now the cupboard is bare for incoming players. The management of this team is clearly dysfunctional and until someone holds the reigns and has autonomy to do what is needed it will not change. Barrada hopefully will change that but understand Ed Woodward was not fit for purpose and dug a huge hole that needs to be gotten out of. It will not happen in a single season, the rot is too deep. This is Manchester United, but the team is run more like a 3rd tier bottom feeder. Can you believe there is only 1 capable striker? Who in their brilliance brought in Pogba, Martial, Fernandes, Sancho and the list is endless of players who do not fit the winner mold. Rashford has now contracted the same cancer of non production. It is not getting better either.
 

Leftback99

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We don't value our midfield, we don't seem to value controlling the ball and it annoys me. Mainoo is great, mctom is pretty useless in midfield, little to no impact, and Bruno is never in midfield.
Yep, like my first post in this thread.

If we're going to get the best out of Mainoo stop bypassing him. Get a manager that values possession.

Even Bruno's better games come when he plays in a more reserved role.
 

Hammondo

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Yep, like my first post in this thread.

If we're going to get the best out of Mainoo stop bypassing him. Get a manager that values possession.

Even Bruno's better games come when he plays in a more reserved role.
Mainoo is built for possession, I can't believe how lucky we are to have him, and how unlucky he is to play in this squad.
 

joso157

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Not rocket science is it, and it’s not an issue that sacking the manager will solve. The new football structure will help massively when it comes in, but the issue we have is the same as the issue we’ve had since Fergie went. Different managers with different styles of play, constantly being allowed to buy their ‘type’ of player, then never actually getting as far as revamping the whole squad before getting sacked cause of reasons x, y, z. Were the only top club to still have a manager that oversees everything, all the others have a head coach. The club needs a clear footballing identity which they then recruit for, from the ground up. The youth academy should be trained the same as the senior squad, and the head coach should be recruited in line with that, i.e we want to play a high press, so we seek out the best coach at doing that. Not the best on their reputation regardless of style of coaching. It’s square pegs and round holes all the time with this club, and the biggest issue for ETH is the fact his best acquisition and last seasons stand out player, Martinez, has been out for 99% of this season. He’s our link between defence and midfield, akin to having a play maker in defence, and he’s been replaced by other players are not even remotely capable of playing the same role…why, because of the reasons above!
 

siw2007

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I believe that the manager sets the team up to play this chaotic style of play. I don’t think he believes that he can get this team to dominate games through possession so he tries to turn the game into one of high possession turnovers and many transitions, which in theory should be our strength with the profile of forwards we have.

But this is bringing other problems. We aren’t exactly a team full of warriors who are desperate to win the ball back as quickly as we give it away. It’s well documented that we are very vulnerable in defensive transitions, this leads to many shots conceded and an over exerted defence with many injuries. This is an attitude problem and just isn’t going to change without a change in personal.
 

Dominos

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Squad quality is about 6th or 7th in league and the manager is no better either so I don't see how anyone is expecting anything better than this. A decade of mismanagement of the club by the people in charge has brought us here and until we find some good enough people to lead the club nothing will improve. The manager and squad quality are the symptoms but the real problem has always been higher up.
Did anyone actually hold this opinion before the season started though? Who on here predicted we'd drop from 3rd place last year to 6th/7th this year?

Who was saying before the start of the season that Villa and Spurs have a better squad than us?
 

the hea

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Did anyone actually hold this opinion before the season started though? Who on here predicted we'd drop from 3rd place last year to 6th/7th this year?

Who was saying before the start of the season that Villa and Spurs have a better squad than us?
I would have put our squad at maybe 5th or 6th before the season, Arsenal, Liverpool and City where of course well ahead of us. I would also have put Chelsea ahead of us just on squad quality and I'd probably would have had us on the same level as Spurs and slightly ahead of Villa. But things have also changed since then, Rashford has showen that his good spell from last season was just an anomality. It's now also clear that Casemiros legs are gone and he's struggling massively with the tempo in the PL. Antony and Sancho have also shown that they are nowhere near good enough for a top 4 club.
 

NoLogo

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Did anyone actually hold this opinion before the season started though? Who on here predicted we'd drop from 3rd place last year to 6th/7th this year?

Who was saying before the start of the season that Villa and Spurs have a better squad than us?
Spurs lost their 30+ goals a season striker and they still are doing better than us. We have absolutely no excuses really.
 

Ayoba

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We're too open in the middle of the park and have no control whatsoever in midfield. Against Brentford, we struggled to keep hold of the ball for more than 10 seconds.

This was evident in pre-season against Lens then again against Wolves. The warning signs were out early, but here we are, almost at the end of the season and there has been no change at all. This is all down to ETH, the coaching staff and the tactics (or lack of them). It honestly beggars belief that we havent managed to sort it out yet.
 

Maticmaker

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Lots of problems, well documented elsewhere in this discussion, but my worry is that after the magnificent result against Liverpool that got us to the FA Cup semifinal, some of the squad seem have lost interest again in the PL, I fear it's become a 'bridge too far' in their mind set.

However, we have already reached Wembley in the semi, so one more win and its a return to Wembley in our second FA Cup final in two years; hence the danger is that 'all the eggs' (so to speak) go into one basket. At least that's the danger and a big test once again for the manager to exercise some control, otherwise like it or not players will tend to switch off (albeit) subconsciously in PL games.

We have seen over many years (in other clubs as well) that when players have only one realistic trophy left to aim for, then apathy can set in for any other competition where the chances are deemed to be slim... to none existent. The belief seemingly to be, we can be sh**e for some games, then jump into top form for the important ones :nono:

I suppose to be honest, we have seen that this season at times, apathetic performances, then a few exceptional results... so maybe they can turn up when they want to do... just wish they would tell us when and we can save some money and we can turn up only for the good stuff!
 

Steve 007

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I just don’t think the players care enough.

Rashford hasn’t been at the races this year and he just isn’t enough of a team player to pass the ball to Hojilund.
Casimeiro hasn’t become rubbish overnight, he’s not been good enough.
McT was never good enough.
Maguire, Lindelof were never good enough.
Hojilund hasn’t got mentally back from injury yet.
Mainoo, Gernacho are good enough but Gernacho needs consistency he’ll get as he matures.

Fernandes was never ever captain material, his body language is mirrored in the team and how easy we get cut through.
It’s a mess.
Shaw is too injury prone.
 

Maticmaker

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Well that's a lot of talk with 0 real substance.
How often do you get a panel like that all in agreement? Answer when its discussing Manchester United's woes, some just cannot keep the joy out of their voices?

To be fair a lot of what they said was valid.
 

Zed 101

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People bemoan our injuries etc... but there has rarely been a match where we have been forced to play kids/inexperienced players, Kambwala and Hanibal probably the only notable times and that was a couple of matches... most of the time we have had 11 full internationals on the pitch

In short our obsession with finding tailor made players who immediately fit a profile perfectly, we end up overspending on older, established players who then have little room to adapt or improve, the result we very rarely see the players play as a team, odd moments, usually in attack, but most of the time it is extremely disjointed, it boils down to bad buying, bad coaching and a bad game management.
 

Maticmaker

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People bemoan our injuries etc... but there has rarely been a match where we have been forced to play kids/inexperienced players, Kambwala and Hanibal probably the only notable times and that was a couple of matches... most of the time we have had 11 full internationals on the pitch

In short our obsession with finding tailor made players who immediately fit a profile perfectly, we end up overspending on older, established players who then have little room to adapt or improve, the result we very rarely see the players play as a team, odd moments, usually in attack, but most of the time it is extremely disjointed, it boils down to bad buying, bad coaching and a bad game management.
'
Agreed..usually the profile they fitted perfectly' was more to do with how many shirts will they sell, rather than game plans or squad positions they would fill; hopefully at least that sort of 'selection criteria' will get dumped now under Sir Jim.
 

gantherbale

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I believe that the manager sets the team up to play this chaotic style of play. I don’t think he believes that he can get this team to dominate games through 192.168.100.1 192.168.1.1 possession so he tries to turn the game into one of high possession turnovers and many transitions, which in theory should be our strength with the profile of forwards we have.

But this is bringing other problems. We aren’t exactly a team full of warriors who are desperate to win the ball back as quickly as we give it away. It’s well documented that we are very vulnerable in defensive transitions, this leads to many shots conceded and an over exerted defence with many injuries. This is an attitude problem and just isn’t going to change without a change in personal.
and the lac of confidence affect the team very badly
 

Hammondo

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How often do you get a panel like that all in agreement? Answer when its discussing Manchester United's woes, some just cannot keep the joy out of their voices?

To be fair a lot of what they said was valid.
But it's vapid, just using hollow phrases like they are no longer scared of us that's why they attack now.
 

Devil77

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I just don’t think the players care enough.

Rashford hasn’t been at the races this year and he just isn’t enough of a team player to pass the ball to Hojilund.
Casimeiro hasn’t become rubbish overnight, he’s not been good enough.
McT was never good enough.
Maguire, Lindelof were never good enough.
Hojilund hasn’t got mentally back from injury yet.
Mainoo, Gernacho are good enough but Gernacho needs consistency he’ll get as he matures.

Fernandes was never ever captain material, his body language is mirrored in the team and how easy we get cut through.
It’s a mess.
Shaw is too injury prone.
I hear this explanation a lot. While it’s possible I find it unlikely that just Manchester United have managed to assemble a squad where no one cares. They are professional players who have devoted their entire life to football and are among the top hundreds of players in the world. Why wouldn’t they show the same pride as their peers?
 

Steve 007

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I hear this explanation a lot. While it’s possible I find it unlikely that just Manchester United have managed to assemble a squad where no one cares. They are professional players who have devoted their entire life to football and are among the top hundreds of players in the world. Why wouldn’t they show the same pride as their peers?
It’s interesting, there’s a lot of speculation that egos are at play. Some think they should be starters (Maguire), some upset that Jadon has ‘been wronged’ (supposedly Rashford), who goes out drinking in Ireland and turns up late or calls in sick. It’s a poor culture and it breeds.
 

wolvored

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Its a combination of poor players not good enough, yet play regular and bad tactics.
The Wanderers game in August should have had TH going back to the drawing board, yet he has persisted with the same failed tactic of a big hole in midfield when we lose the ball and because we have had moments when we have won or scraped a point, he thinks it will eventually work.
Imagine if 10% of those missed shots by the opposition had have hit the net we would have been fighting relegation and minus god knows how many goals.
 

tomaldinho1

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Midfield.

Has been an issue since LVG and it was quite basic albeit functional even then for how he wanted to play.

We've lucked out in Mainoo, who is clearly not a sitting player and should be an 8. We need to move Bruno/Case on, spend big money on a DM who isn't old and is technically good and get someone to drill a new style of play into them.
 

Maticmaker

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Midfield.

Has been an issue since LVG and it was quite basic albeit functional even then for how he wanted to play.

We've lucked out in Mainoo, who is clearly not a sitting player and should be an 8. We need to move Bruno/Case on, spend big money on a DM who isn't old and is technically good and get someone to drill a new style of play into them.
Totally agree...
Always thought the lad Garner that went to Everton would make it, would have loved to see him spend at least one full season alongside Matic... but it was not to be. Mainoo is priceless. but we must not stuff up on him, treat with kid gloves.
 

tomaldinho1

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Totally agree...
Always thought the lad Garner that went to Everton would make it, would have loved to see him spend at least one full season alongside Matic... but it was not to be. Mainoo is priceless. but we must not stuff up on him, treat with kid gloves.
You never know with Garner, if Everton go down I could see us putting in a low ball bid for him. Given the silly money they want for other names, we have such DM/CM issues he would be a squad player for us and is better than Amrabat for sure.

Can see Sir Jim liking to idea of picking up a few cheaper young guys with connection to the club/area on frees or less expensive deals along with 1-2 big names. If you think of players like Garner, Elanga, Mengi who have left and are solid if not amazing PL players, I think one of his big priorities will be avoiding the issue we had where it seemed like we needed to sell them for FFP reasons given they are academy players. We have such an exodus coming (Case, Varane, Martial, Amrabat etc.) it makes no sense to keep going after big names without getting a bigger core of decent players. Whilst none of those names I mentioned would have changed our fortunes much, although it would have been bloody useful to have Mengi this season given the injuries, that situation should not happen again.
 

Maticmaker

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You never know with Garner, if Everton go down I could see us putting in a low ball bid for him. Given the silly money they want for other names, we have such DM/CM issues he would be a squad player for us and is better than Amrabat for sure.

Can see Sir Jim liking to idea of picking up a few cheaper young guys with connection to the club/area on frees or less expensive deals along with 1-2 big names. If you think of players like Garner, Elanga, Mengi who have left and are solid if not amazing PL players, I think one of his big priorities will be avoiding the issue we had where it seemed like we needed to sell them for FFP reasons given they are academy players. We have such an exodus coming (Case, Varane, Martial, Amrabat etc.) it makes no sense to keep going after big names without getting a bigger core of decent players. Whilst none of those names I mentioned would have changed our fortunes much, although it would have been bloody useful to have Mengi this season given the injuries, that situation should not happen again.
Once again totally agree....

Never thought about Garner etc. returning, but if their current clubs go down then a low ball bid would be something to try... although most of these players left to get first team football.... in the PL, but as you say if they go down, they might consider a return to OT, even it was as squad players only.

With the best will in the world and with much better senior managers/structure, Sir Jim will still not be able to wave a magic wand, it's going to need a 'brick' or a 'layer' of rebuild at a time. However hopefully in the right direction. :):)
 

Herman Toothrot

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People can blame the player they like the least, or point to the appalling injury record (although, at this point, that's feeling more like negligence than bad luck), but, ultimately, it just feels like the tactical plan is insane.

Its faults are obvious, but never addressed.

I can only guess that the manager has either cracked and abandoned reason for madness, or is fuelled by an outstanding arrogance in his own belief.

Either way, I think his days are numbered.
 

Buster15

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I would say a lot of the problems are associated with our lack of team work and team ethos.
We do have a number of talented players.
However, when we do get a good result, it is mainly down to individual displays rather than the team as a whole.

We can see from the way Mainoo plays that he plays for the team and not just himself.
Whereas Bruno and Antony are just concentrating on themselves.
 

Woziak

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This is a great question and should be have separate sub headings;

What is our problem since 2013 season?
This period of now 11 years is easy to summarise, the club off the field has been atrociously managed, with all the wrong people left to run the club whilst the Glazers used us an ATM and very little interest in the day to day running. That exposed so much which was starting to fall apart during Fergies last years, had David Gill stayed and United went and recruited the right coach in 2013/14 season we would have won at least two more titles but we didn’t. Woodward and the Glazers abused the club financially until they could abuse it no more, the stadium was left derelict, the fans initially thought, that it was only a matter of 2 or 3 years and we would start wining again, especially when we recruited LVG and Jose both CL wining managers. The truth one of these would have succeeded had he been appointed in 2013/14 or shown more patience, LVG would have won an EPL playing terrible football, JM would have won it probably 2014/15 had he been recruited in 2013/14 at his peak powers.
We kept telling ourselves, give us a few years and we’ll be back, false dawn after false dawn because ultimately the club was rotten inside to its core, gradually festering each year under the Glazers abhorrent behaviour and Woodward’s ridiculous notion that he knew what he was doing.

What is our problem this year ?
Many United fans, me included got duped, we all thought ETH was the chosen one, the United mesiah, he turned the worst United team from the previous season with 58 points and Neutral GD to potential title challengers, finished 3rd with 75 points, won a domestic cup, got to a final in another and showed us in two games against Barcelona, United actually playing like an elite European team again!

Roll on 12 months, ETH the stubborn one wants to play a 4-1-2-3 formation with no defensive integrity, the Strikers stay high and press with the midfield and our defence drops deep on our own penalty area leaving huge areas of space so the team is put to the sword, he’s embarrassed this great club throughout the season, the warning signs were there last year but we never took notice.

Yes the takeover and injuries have affected his judgement but his inability to understand that you can not play this formation in the PL is beyond reason to 99% of United fans. Every time United start a resurgence, maybe even win 2 or 3 games on the trot, he reverts to type and then loses or draws a game, that a club as big as United should always be wining.

Our problem this year is simple we feel as fans that we’ve suffered long enough with tumescent unattractive football over the last 11 years, we feel, that we suffered long enough with a 15 month sham of a takeover that inevitably kept the Glazers still at our club and now yet again as we finally hear good things from Ineos, nothing is ever easy.

The club wants to correct their management and scouting structure but once again, Dan Ashworth won’t be in place til September, Wilcox current club want unreasonable compensation. This is what is ultimately wrong with Manchester United in 2024?

We act like a mid table mediocre club that’s never won a big trophy in its entire history, we act like a club that doesn’t have more fans worldwide than any other club in the world and more importantly we wait far too long to still make decisions, Moments United, Dithering United, Maybe United, Next Year United!

To Ineos and Sir Jim, I said this when you were taking over, if you truly love the club which I believe you do, make this your prime objective, I’m still concerned with your current strategy of “Too many Cooks spoilt the broth” philosophy has now started to see Nice back to where they’ve been since you took over, probably not making Europe, not scoring goals and general boring to watch, sound familiar?

So rather than delegate, which after all is what the Glazers have done to you on footballing matters, come out this week and say something meaningful like the following;

1. The Club needs huge investment in the playing staff and I’ve decided to pay Newcastle £10m and Southampton £3m so we can kickstart the process now with the appointments of Dan Ashworth and Jason Wilcox, both will start on 1st June with Omar Berrada.

2. The Club will sell some of the squad this summer and every player has a price.

3. The club fully support ETH to the end of the season but results will ultimately determine who the new coach will be next year, we’ve had discussions with Eric so he knows what he has to do.

4. The Directors of the club, having consulted the fans have decided to build a brand new 100,000 all seater stadium at old Trafford where the club owns the surrounding ground. The area around will be made into a United campus, the work will commence in summer 2025 and take 3-4 years to complete.

5. The club will have a huge investment budget this summer but we will not be held to ransom by any other club, if the new transfer committee can not agree a deal with any player they will have alternative targets and who ever is the manager of the club next season will be given very clear targets that he must achieve and one of those targets is that he must achieve CL football as the bare minimum whilst playing the brand of football that the club demands.


Man United have been a rudderless sinking titanic for years, now a strong leader is required, someone who goes to most of the matches and when he’s there the players see him and get scared or feel inspired, both work, Sir David’s not the man for this, everyone knows he just reports back to you, says clever words but ultimately knows Jack S…about football, look at Nice again!

Sir Jim, please just come out and say what you want as a fan and an owner, say the performances against Brentford is simply not acceptable for this club, injuries are not acceptable, tell the squad that this goes two ways, either give everything in the last 9,10 or hopefully 11 games of the season or some of you will be forced out of the club, none of you are invincible any more, maybe a 1/2 year loan in the Swiss league should do the trick, after all they are employees of your club and you are the co owner and therefore in charge of all footballing matters?
 
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redmanx

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We should get shot of most of the senior players, including Rashford, Maguire, Shaw, Sancho, Martial, Casemiro, Van de Beek, Varane and Lindelof and build again around Martinez, as captain, Mainoo, Hojlund and Garnacho. Senior players Bruno, McTominay, Mount and Dalot deserve a chance to play in a United team focussed, fit and ready to fight for every second of every match, and Academy players like Bendito Mantato and other should be given their chance, if not we'll lose them; the vultures are already circling Mantato and if we ignore him in favour of a Rashford, a Sancho or a Martial he'll go.
We need to be brave and ditch the dross of the previous 11 years and, just as Busby and Fergie did, give the kids their chance; after all they cannot possibly be or do any worse than the prima donnas they'll replace.
 

Josep Dowling

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Not rocket science is it, and it’s not an issue that sacking the manager will solve. The new football structure will help massively when it comes in, but the issue we have is the same as the issue we’ve had since Fergie went. Different managers with different styles of play, constantly being allowed to buy their ‘type’ of player, then never actually getting as far as revamping the whole squad before getting sacked cause of reasons x, y, z. Were the only top club to still have a manager that oversees everything, all the others have a head coach. The club needs a clear footballing identity which they then recruit for, from the ground up. The youth academy should be trained the same as the senior squad, and the head coach should be recruited in line with that, i.e we want to play a high press, so we seek out the best coach at doing that. Not the best on their reputation regardless of style of coaching. It’s square pegs and round holes all the time with this club, and the biggest issue for ETH is the fact his best acquisition and last seasons stand out player, Martinez, has been out for 99% of this season. He’s our link between defence and midfield, akin to having a play maker in defence, and he’s been replaced by other players are not even remotely capable of playing the same role…why, because of the reasons above!
This 100%.
 

MancunianAngels

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We should get shot of most of the senior players, including Rashford, Maguire, Shaw, Sancho, Martial, Casemiro, Van de Beek, Varane and Lindelof and build again around Martinez, as captain, Mainoo, Hojlund and Garnacho. Senior players Bruno, McTominay, Mount and Dalot deserve a chance to play in a United team focussed, fit and ready to fight for every second of every match, and Academy players like Bendito Mantato and other should be given their chance, if not we'll lose them; the vultures are already circling Mantato and if we ignore him in favour of a Rashford, a Sancho or a Martial he'll go.
We need to be brave and ditch the dross of the previous 11 years and, just as Busby and Fergie did, give the kids their chance; after all they cannot possibly be or do any worse than the prima donnas they'll replace.
Busby and Fergie both had reasonable success before throwing the kids in. That immediately releases some of the pressure on the youngsters.

The Class of 92 were also eased in gently. Giggs was a regular in 91/92. Scholes and Butt were introduced more throughout 94/95. Neville x2 and Beckham only really became regulars in 95/96.

The idea that Fergie just launched them all into action suddenly one day is a bit of a myth.

Until you solved the wider issues (style of play/culture structure etc) throwing the kids in now would ruin them.
 

MancunianAngels

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Squad quality is about 6th or 7th in league and the manager is no better either so I don't see how anyone is expecting anything better than this. A decade of mismanagement of the club by the people in charge has brought us here and until we find some good enough people to lead the club nothing will improve. The manager and squad quality are the symptoms but the real problem has always been higher up.
This squad would be comfortably fourth without the injuries.

Certainly better than Villa/Spurs and arguably closer to the top 3.

Now, how much of the injuries are down to training/bad management?

Was spending money on the likes of Antony (and thus utilising the transfer budget badly meaning we have no adequate replacements) a Ten Hag/board decision?

How much of our pre season preparation is centred around commercial activity? Did that happen to the detriment of our early season performances.

That is where questions need to be asked.