What is wrong with the way we play?

[Cassidy]

He should have his own ideas, and with 400m and counting, the strengths of the squad should be whatever he chooses it to be.

They are his own ideas. Its his idea that you to construct your play in accordance with the strengths in the squad.
And since he is not the one making the signings and negotiating fees then he cannot make the squad whatever he wants.

Because quite clearly he does not want McTom, Maguire, VDB, and Sancho yet they are still here

Quite clearly he wanted Kane, Rice De Jong and they are not here

 

[Rozay]

I agree. I am still behind him and I thought the period you're talking about was easily our most encouraging period in 10 years. For the first time, we looked pro active and in control of games, not always, but regularly. The Barcelona game was a great example of that and I agree that that was a better performance than 2008. That's what making all of this so bizarre.

I hope and it could be as you say, the issues off the pitch are just having too great an impact and this is just a series of bad fortune that will turn around. But the pressure will start to build now and he will have to either show belief in his convictions and how he wants to play or revert to some safety first football.

We have has better under Solskjaer IMO. There was firstly his initial spell during his interim period, then there was what I think was probably the best before and straight after lockdown. Then there were just more memorable performances like dominating City away or PSG away.

If we take away everything we want Ten Hag to be from our minds, he has not bettered those levels IMO. Crucially under Ole, these best spells actually involved us putting the ball in the net too, not just passing the ball at the back. Our attack was feared by all in the league.

What we needed was for the coach after him to take us a step or two forward from those levels, mainly improving the midfield work and control. Ten Hag has done none of those things, although bizzarely, he seems to think he has and he goes into press conferences after being outplayed insisting his team played well.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Our key players are too much of a soloist and we can never build a proper team with these players.

 

[Cassidy]

Our key players are too much of a soloist and we can never build a proper team with these players.

Portugal and England seem to do fine with them

 

[Rozay]

They are his own ideas. Its his idea that you to construct your play in accordance with the strengths in the squad.
And since he is not the one making the signings and negotiating fees then he cannot make the squad whatever he wants.

Because quite clearly he does not want McTom, Maguire, VDB, and Sancho yet they are still here

Quite clearly he wanted Kane, Rice De Jong and they are not here

He has wanted the players he has signed. Did he want them more than Harry Kane and Kylian fecking Mbappé? Probably not. Poor thing because he didn’t get 300m worth of just 3 players. Neither did De Zerbi. The man is a con man.

 

[Cassidy]

He has wanted the players he has signed. Did he want them more than Harry Kane and Kylian fecking Mbappé? Probably not. Poor thing because he didn’t get 300m worth of just 3 players. Neither did De Zerbi. The man is a con man.

Hes a con man because he wanted a top striker and he was given a player who scored 9 goals last season and was injured?

Hes a con man because he played a full season and more now without a proper CF?

 

[Theonas]

We have has better under Solskjaer IMO. There was firstly his initial spell during his interim period, then there was what I think was probably the best before and straight after lockdown. Then there were just more memorable performances like dominating City away or PSG away.

If we take away everything we want Ten Hag to be from our minds, he has not bettered those levels IMO. Crucially under Ole, these best spells actually involved us putting the ball in the net too, not just passing the ball at the back. Our attack was feared by all in the league.

What we needed was for the coach after him to take us a step or two forward from those levels, mainly improving the midfield work and control. Ten Hag has done none of those things, although bizzarely, he seems to think he has and he goes into press conferences after being outplayed insisting his team played well.

Ole's time might have produced some more memorable games like the PSG game and we did look at times, more potent up front. I never felt though that we looked structurally solid. At his best, the team had momentum and "good vibes" which was evidenced by the fact that whenever we played a top team, our only tactical answer was to put more men behind the ball. Admittedly, that's what we've seen under Ten Hag at times too but I felt the period from the WC to the League Cup final looked the most balanced between a solid tactical basis whilst playing on the front foot.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Portugal and England seem to do fine with them

Portugal wasn't fine in WC at all (beating Lithuania in qualifier doesn't really count), and I'd say England key players are more of Kane, Bellingham, Saka, Rice etc. rather than Rashford and Maguire.

 

[Leftback99]

It's Oleball with less individual brilliance.

 

[croadyman]

There is no defined style after over a year

 

[Cassidy]

Portugal wasn't fine in WC at all (beating Lithuania in qualifier doesn't really count), and I'd say England key players are more of Kane, Bellingham, Saka, Rice etc. rather than Rashford and Maguire.

No one is talking about Maguire and clearly Rashford was their top scorer at the world cup and after he was dropped from the side they went out.

Portugals best player in Euro qualifying is clearly Bruno and its not debatable.

 

[RedRonaldo]

No one is talking about Maguire and clearly Rashford was their top scorer at the world cup and after he was dropped from the side they went out.

Portugals best player in Euro qualifying is clearly Bruno and its not debatable.

Bruno was our best player too, doesn't make us great as a team.

And Rashford hasn''t been really great for England in past 3 years, except the WC. Plus he offers nothing in build up play.
1 goals in 2021
3 goals in 2022 (WC)
1 goals in 2023

Meanwhile Harry Kane,
16 goals in 2021
5 goals in 2022
6 goal sin 2023

Saka, who also offers alot in his all round play.
4 goals in 2021
3 goals in 2022
4 goals in 2023

 

[Cassidy]

Bruno was our best player too, doesn't make us great as a team.

And Rashford hasn''t been really great for England in past 4 years, except the WC.
1 goals in 2020
1 goals in 2021
1 goals in 2023

Bruno was our best player too, doesn't make us great as a team.

And Rashford hasn''t been really great for England in past 4 years, except the WC.
1 goals in 2020
1 goals in 2021
1 goals in 2023

1 goal in 2023 in 4 games of which he started only 1?

Portugal have played some good football, lets see what they do in the Euros

 

[RedRonaldo]

1 goal in 2023 in 4 games of which he started only 1?

Which means he isn't key player.

 

[Cassidy]

Which means he isn't key player.

Never said he was a key player. When he plays for England he looks a better player and England look at a better team

 

[RedRonaldo]

Never said he was a key player

But that's what I've said at the start, to which you've quoted directly from, and hence our conversation.

Our key players are too much of a soloist and we can never build a proper team with these players.

Portugal and England seem to do fine with them

 

[Cassidy]

But that's what I've said at the start, to which you've quoted directly from, and hence our conversation.

Yea and those teams seem to do fine with them.

Bruno is clearly a key player. Maguire is not for United clearly so not talking about him

Rashford on the left for England is when England actually look like a good side in my opinion

 

[RedRonaldo]

Yea and those teams seem to do fine with them.

Bruno is clearly a key player. Maguire is not for United clearly so not talking about him

Rashford on the left for England is when England actually look like a good side in my opinion

Portugal wasn't really doing fine as a team, with Bruno as their key player. He is one of their best player though.

Rashford isn't key player for England as a team over large part of past 3-4 years. He is good individual player though.

That's all I am saying.

 

[Cassidy]

Portugal wasn't really doing fine as a team, with Bruno as their key player. He is one of their best player though.

Rashford isn't key player for England as a team over large part of past 3-4 years. He is good individual player though.

That's all I am saying.

Portugal wise we’ll hopefully see at the next tournament.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

We have has better under Solskjaer IMO. There was firstly his initial spell during his interim period, then there was what I think was probably the best before and straight after lockdown. Then there were just more memorable performances like dominating City away or PSG away.

If we take away everything we want Ten Hag to be from our minds, he has not bettered those levels IMO. Crucially under Ole, these best spells actually involved us putting the ball in the net too, not just passing the ball at the back. Our attack was feared by all in the league.

What we needed was for the coach after him to take us a step or two forward from those levels, mainly improving the midfield work and control. Ten Hag has done none of those things, although bizzarely, he seems to think he has and he goes into press conferences after being outplayed insisting his team played well.

Disagree personally, because those performances were more based on us being reactive versus proactive.

Which PSG game are you talking about by the way? Surely not the Rashford penalty one, because our performance that game was objectively terrible.

 

[vva]

It's clear that the biggest problem is from the top, DOF and directors. Man united is like broken company which is very difficult to turn-around unless we get new owners, DOF and directors who are much better first.
In my opinion, only in case Quatar could take-over and rebuild the team from top to bottom is the way. (Let's say it's the thing Todd boehly did but the new owner must do more wisely).

No matter which manager comes in, they will likely do more failure rather than success.
Glazers don't care about football, so John Murtough, Richard Arnold, or ex-Ed woodward are always not what Glazers care.
Our DoF and CEO are very incompetent. This is the second biggest problem in Man united.
How do they keep recruiting new players who are not having enough of a specified quality?
How do they always say Yes to players the manager propose (even most of the manager is not good as Talent identification)?
How do they keep giving luxury wage to inconsistency players and new-comers?
How do they always pay overprice in transfer market?

Squad must be rebuild. I can say each of them has outstanding deficiency which maybe imposssible to be improved.
For example, Our captain Bruno, slow, weak, very inconsistency in the pass, not good when being pressed or in tight space.
To compensate this, other 2 midfields must be fast, good in tight space, press-resistant and physically greatness.
Do we have that player in our 11 starting player?
Our biggest star, Rashford, avoid any duel, tackle, aerial challenge with the opponents, not put effort on pressing, not good when being pressed,
always want to beat the opponent in 1-1 rather than pass the ball to teammates who are in better position.
Maybe only Kane can compensate to be False 9 to let Rashford shine, but anyway, if rashford doesn't have enough space to beat the opponent in 1-1.
He's also very useless player on field.
Our right wing, Antony, clearly he's not quick and there's one style of play. Definitely, opponents feels no harm at all.'
Our center back, Martinez, small and slow, even good in tackle and pass, his weakness is exposed more and more with high-line defending and pairs who are not quick either.
Our defensive midfielder, Casemiro, aging comes fast, slow, not good when being pressed, bad passing.

This is just some example of the biggest stars in the team who have serious deficiency. The rest of the team also have more deficiency in
the same or different aspects. I can imagine Pep, Klopp or DerZerbi could fail top 4 with this squad as well.

 

[Cloud7]

There are two things that nag at me. The first I couldn't quite put into words until I saw a post in the matchday thread that somewhat phrased it, that basically said "It's like all the other 19 teams in the league have a cheat code that they share around that can be used against United" and that feels so true. Almost every team that we come up against, home and away, seem to know how to play against us. Even when we win, it always feels like the other team weren't far from being able to win as well. Since we won the league cup last season, most of the matches have felt like a slog. We never seem to really have comfortable matches.

The second thing is one that has spanned pretty much every manager we've had post SAF with the exception of LVG. How is it that other clubs have managers that come in and within a couple months you can see a clearly defined way that they play, whereas with us we have managers that go more than a season and you still can't quite see what they are trying to achieve? The obvious example this season is Spurs. I can't see how they are better than us on a structural level as I view Levy as awful. They just sold their best player who has been carrying them for years, have a new manager in who has never been at a big club before, and a couple matches in they actually look like they know what they are trying to do. Why does that never happen with us? This has spanned many different managers and many different crops of players.

 

[AngliaRed]

I dont even know what we are good at.

We cant even whip a decent corner in.

 

[Polar]

We have has better under Solskjaer IMO.

I rate last season (22/23) and 20/21 equally quality wise.

I agree with people saying we looked more balanced last year; first of all because we reinforced midfield.

…but we had much more offensive edge in 20/21.Our transition play was world class and like someone said here: our counter attack was feared.

This season has been a catastrophe so fare. It’s definitely on level with our worst periods under Jose, Ole and Ralph.

 

[Maagge]

We're caught between pressing and sitting back which means we're doing neither of them well and are leaving oceans of space between our defenders and attackers. Off the pitch we're a complete shambles from the players to upper management.

 

[giggs-beckham]

Because we don't put enough emphasis on a players general play when signing them.

Swap managers today and the result is probably the same. Brighton have so many players that excel in tight spaces and are strong under pressure, which gives De Zerbi the platform to implement his style in terms of dominating opposition.

He couldn't do that here because we don't have any midfielders or attackers (bar potentially Amrabat) who possess these attributes. They're all impact players who look for the Hollywood pass or shot because they're too weak, slow, technically deficient to play in tight spaces and with someone pressing them.

ETH has had time and money to change the style of play at United to his own. He hasn't succeeded

 

[noodlehair]

I might just be overthinking but I didn't like the comments from ETH in pre season about wanting to stick to United traditions with fast wingers, direct play, being the best team in transition etc.

And now this season our tactic seems to be get the ball to Rashford or Antony as soon as possible, and then they either run into defenders or have a shot. And thats it.

Yesterday was embarrassing to watch as you could see a clear difference in one team being coached in knowing how to deal with the way an opposition set up and adapt their gameplan to suit, and the other just sticking to their one track predictable tactic regardless of what the opposition were doing or whether it was working.

I'm fine with using Rashford's pace and ability to run in behind as a threat and even adapting the way we play to maximise it, but it can't literally be the entire plan. He isn't going to score/assist 100 goals in a season, especially when he does things like take an off balance shot from a tight angle on his weaker foot, instead of rolling an 8 yard pass across the box for his team mate to tap in.

There was another moment in the Tottenham game that summed it up well. They had two defensive players down pretending to be hurt in our box while we were on the counter, and instead of using the extra space to pass up the pitch and probably score, we played a 70 yard pass to Rashford who was marked and lost the ball.


I feel like I've said this during every game this season but we just look like a really stupid team compared to our opponents, and in general. We take 0 account of the situation on the pitch and that's become a big issue now when our gameplan for every match has been rubbish and needed changing.

Last season (at least until we started looking knackered) we would actually try to play through the middle and establish control on a game, and would adapt if something wasn't working. It's like we've gone 3 steps backwards.

 

[Hammondo]

We have has better under Solskjaer IMO. There was firstly his initial spell during his interim period, then there was what I think was probably the best before and straight after lockdown. Then there were just more memorable performances like dominating City away or PSG away.

If we take away everything we want Ten Hag to be from our minds, he has not bettered those levels IMO. Crucially under Ole, these best spells actually involved us putting the ball in the net too, not just passing the ball at the back. Our attack was feared by all in the league.

What we needed was for the coach after him to take us a step or two forward from those levels, mainly improving the midfield work and control. Ten Hag has done none of those things, although bizzarely, he seems to think he has and he goes into press conferences after being outplayed insisting his team played well.

Even in that period teams sussed us out and adapted. It really didn't last long until we looked poor again.

 

[Skills]

Hes a con man because he wanted a top striker and he was given a player who scored 9 goals last season and was injured?

Hes a con man because he played a full season and more now without a proper CF?

Stick Kane in the Brighton line up and they put 7 past us. Stick Kane in our line up, and we scrape a draw.

 

[Marcus]

Pur passing is so slow. Very easy to defend against. We are almost telepathing where the next ball is going to go because the players with the ball.are the ones being pressed. Come on people, pass with zip.

 

[Polar]

When I watch West Ham, Brighton, Newcastle and Liverpool play I realise our play lack intensity. When example Liverpool lacks intensity they struggle and look like a mid table team.

We can’t play possession like City or Real Madrid. Even Arsenal can’t do that.

Sometimes it seems like we think it’s underneath our dignity to play with very high intensity or focus on counterattacks

 

[Josep Dowling]

So many issues at present. You have to play tactics for the players you have. Ten Hag has completely changed everything tactically this season, expecting it to work. The only real difference to the starting 11 is the goalkeeper. We can play out from the back now right? Wrong!

Injuries have already meant Lindelof starting. Shaw is out so we have a non-entity player at LB. Both Dalot and Wan Bissaka are poor on the ball and I was surprised we didn’t go after a decent RB in the summer.

On top of this he’s playing an extremely high line and inverted full backs. Shaw was all over the place against Wolves with this tactic. Wan Bissaka and Dalot aren’t good enough to play this either.

Teams are running through our midfield with ease as well. We consistently lose the midfield battle because the players aren’t good enough at retaining the ball. Why Ten Hag felt Mount was the player to solve this issue baffles me. A total waste of £55m. Even Amrabat is lightweight. The midfield is going to get calved open until January. The only player that actually pressed was Fred, and we sold him.

 

[Hammondo]

Pur passing is so slow. Very easy to defend against. We are almost telepathing where the next ball is going to go because the players with the ball.are the ones being pressed. Come on people, pass with zip.

Brighton doesn't play with much zip, it's all about weighting the pass and movement off the ball.

 

[Rozay]

Disagree personally, because those performances were more based on us being reactive versus proactive.

Which PSG game are you talking about by the way? Surely not the Rashford penalty one, because our performance that game was objectively terrible.

There is nothing wrong with reacting. There are different ways to control. We created far more and better chances than them at The Etihad and destroyed them on the break repeatedly.

And you seem to have answered the other question for yourself. Obviously the other one then.

 

[Rozay]

Even in that period teams sussed us out and adapted. It really didn't last long until we looked poor again.

We were amongst the highest scorers across the entire season, not a few weeks. We’ve barely ever scored 3 goals in a match since Ten Hag came in.

 

[Hammondo]

We were amongst the highest scorers across the entire season, not a few weeks. We’ve barely ever scored 3 goals in a match since Ten Hag came in.

We had a strong period, didn't last.

 

[Rozay]

Hes a con man because he wanted a top striker and he was given a player who scored 9 goals last season and was injured?

Hes a con man because he played a full season and more now without a proper CF?

You’re just creating your own narratives here. You have no idea the extent to which he wanted Kane, you don’t know to the extent to which he wasn’t flexible on Kane, we spent most of the summer trying to sign Hojlund, we didn’t switch to him after chasing Kane. It just makes sense to you that we probably wanted Kane desperately.

He’s a con man because he can’t get a team doing anything of note unless Harry Lane is the striker, Dec Rice is the DM (with De Jong beside him) and I imagine, Mbappé is out wide. Somehow De Zerbi manages to.

You’re actually being completely ridiculous, I’ve never seen anyone attempt to exonerate a manager because (reported) first choice, best in the world players were not available. What happens when you can’t get your first choice is you get your second. Ten Hag said that the club decided early that Hojlund is the one they want anyway. De Jong refused to join him. Should he have resigned then and there?

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

There is nothing wrong with reacting. There are different ways to control. We created far more and better chances than them at The Etihad and destroyed them on the break repeatedly.

And you seem to have answered the other question for yourself. Obviously the other one then.

That game at the Etihad was good, but we didn't play that way constantly vs City under Ole. Most of the other games were us sitting back and creating null while looking like a relegation side.

All of the best teams in the last decade are proactive sides. Being a reactive side caps your ceiling.

 

[Jacob]

Shouldn't take 2-3 seasons to implement a style a football. It's either the manager that is incapable or the players that are stubborn/narrow-minded and or lacking quality.

 

[Rozay]

We had a strong period, didn't last.

We recorded the most points in the entire of 2020 I believe, if not we had done for most of the year anyway. And we won a few football matches comfortably and scored a few goals.