When Do We Become Irrelevant?

[kidbob]

Slightly darker question around our post SAF plight.

Anyway we seem to be about to lose out on CL again. Our players are either shit, unmotivated or there is a split in the dressing room. We have a decent youth squad but it's rarely used. We have a crumbling stadium. We have owners that don't care about our success. We have huge debts and don't have unlimited oil money. Seemingly no manager can improve us (not a slight on Ralf, who hopefully will have everyone laughing at this thread soon).

So at what point do we become a historic giant and simply be a mid table club that can no longer attract the best talent? As in we is there a breaking point between 'getting back to where we belong' and simply not belonging there anymore?

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

When?

 

[Gandalf]

We are wining the CL this season, stick your negativity up your...

 

[Ayoba]

We're already on that path. Soon it will be 10 years without winning the league.

 

[LoneStar]

Not anytime soon. Huge global fanbase in a sport where people don't switch clubs easily.

Look at Liverpool. They were still relevant a long time despite no success. With our investment and branding, we are not going irrelevant in the next 10-15 years minimum.

 

[Gehrman]

We've been Liverpool pre-klopp for ages now just we've spent more money and been even worse.

 

[AltiUn]

We weren't attracting the best talent a few years ago, we had to spend £130m on Maguire and Wan-Bissaka, all it took was a few decent seasons under Solskjaer to attract Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo. Basically, we'll likely fade in and out of relevance until we find our next Busby or Fergie, which could take decades for all we know.

 

[Lash]

Slightly darker question around our post SAF plight.

Anyway we seem to be about to lose out on CL again. Our players are either shit, unmotivated or there is a split in the dressing room. We have a decent youth squad but it's rarely used. We have a crumbling stadium. We have owners that don't care about our success. We have huge debts and don't have unlimited oil money. Seemingly no manager can improve us (not a slight on Ralf, who hopefully will have everyone laughing at this thread soon).

So at what point do we become a historic giant and simply be a mid table club that can no longer attract the best talent? As in we is there a breaking point between 'getting back to where we belong' and simply not belonging there anymore?

Bit dramatic no? Ralf isn't even meant to be the long term manager, so I'm not entirely surprised by the lack of uptake in his style. Add the covid.situation and a squad we already knew downed tools, it's not exactly going to change much in 5 games.

 

[Dolf]

Once we hit the 10 year mark. You can't say you're a top team if you can't even win your own league in 10 years time.

 

[AltiUn]

Not anytime soon. Huge global fanbase in a sport where people don't switch clubs easily.

Look at Liverpool. They were still relevant a long time despite no success. With our investment and branding, we are not going irrelevant in the next 10-15 years minimum.

Pretty much, and once they had Klopp it only took them a few years to become a really attractive destination again. Footballers have really short memories. If you start doing well no one's gonna care if you were 10th a few years ago.

 

[pascell]

We became irrelevant when we allowed our standards to drop from being title challengers. We've now allowed the players to down tools for four managers and watched them get sacked without taking their fair share of the brunt of responsibility. And instead of them taking their fair share of responsibility, we actually pander to them, offering undeserved contracts on stupidly high wages.

 

[Gehrman]

We weren't attracting the best talent a few years ago, we had to spend £130m on Maguire and Wan-Bissaka, all it took was a few decent seasons under Solskjaer to attract Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo. Basically, we'll likely fade in and out of relevance until we find our next Busby or Fergie, which could take decades for all we know.

Think the era of managers like Busby and Fergie is gone. We just need to act like other succesfull big clubs. Bayern, Liverpool(currently) etc. We havn't hired a world class manager in his prime since Fergie retired.

 

[Infra-red]

I think the Mourinho appointment was probably the last roll of the dice as far a major trophies is concerned - that was a disaster, which the club aren't keen to repeat.

The Board turned their backs on Conte - they don't want a winner, they want a quiet life and mediocrity would be just fine with them, as long as CL revenues keep rolling in.

 

[Gehrman]

I think the Mourinho appointment was probably the last roll of the dice as far a major trophies is concerned - that was a disaster, which the club aren't keen to repeat.

The Board turned their backs on Conte - they don't want a winner, they want a quiet life and mediocrity would be just fine with them, as long as CL revenues keep rolling in.

Think the whole thing with Conte was they didn't want another manager turning toxic. We still should have gone for him though.

 

[Green_Red]

Sad to say we are already there. We don't challenge anyone for titles and teams with poor form and low in the league can come to our home ground and get a result. We are a mid table club with a huge history and overpaid footballers.

 

[Utd heap]

Sad to say we are already there. We don't challenge anyone for titles and teams with poor form and low in the league can come to our home ground and get a result. We are a mid table club with a huge history and overpaid footballers.

We haven't finished midtable for 30 years you nutter.

 

[AltiUn]

Think the era of managers like Busby and Fergie is gone. We just need to act like other succesfull big clubs. Bayern, Liverpool(currently) etc. We havn't hired a world class manager in his prime since Fergie retired.

Liverpool essentially have their version of Fergie, he's been there 7-odd years now, likewise with Guardiola at City.

 

[croadyman]

We are wining the CL this season, stick your negativity up your...

Clearly a wind up but humour is probably the best medicine in these utterly shite times

 

[USREDEVIL]

On a sporting level we've been irrelevant for a few years and will continue to be so until we get a new manager who has us playing with some consistency. I'm hoping that is next year. I think the top top clubs aren't really that concerned about us when they think about winning the UCL or the Premier League, at least not for very long.

On a commercial level, not for a long while. Huge but frustrated fanbase and a historical club.

 

[#07]

We haven't been title contenders for years. We are basically that former A lister who now does reality TV because they have a profile but nothing else these days. Soon even the TV companies will tire of us.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

When a new club with unlimited resources, like Newcastle, or a well-run club, like Leicester, or both, get it right and make even a top-four finish improbable at the start of the season.

 

[The Oracle]

To answer the thread title in the simplest terms, the day we go into administration and then cease to exist, will be the day we become irrelevant.

Until that happens, we will always be relevant - you only have to look at the media to see how many articles there are about us; regardless of whether we win, lose, or draw. There is always a demand for Utd content, far more so than any other football club - no matter how we are performing on the pitch.


Now to provide an angle to the opening line to your thread:
"Slightly darker question around our post SAF plight"

I'm going to go a bit darker, and suggest that it could actually be SAF who is causing a few issues as of right now. I know, I know, very controversial to say anything about the greatest manager we have ever had (and arguably the greatest manager there has ever been), but please hear me out:

We know that he continues to be employed by the club as a non-executive director, so we know he still has influence at the club.
But how much influence exactly, and could these decisions be influenced by him?
- Scott McTominay continues to make the starting 11 and seemingly never gets brought off despite how poor his performances are.
How has SAF got anything to do with this?
McTominay was convinced by SAF to turn his back on England, and instead represent Scotland at International level. That kind of loyalty does not go amiss to a fiercely loyal Scot such as Sir Alex. I believe that some kind of instruction is given to ensure that McTominay plays regardless of form.

- Ronaldo was benched against Everton, before coming on before the hour, in a match that ended up being a draw. Ronaldo stormed off the pitch and Fergie was quoted as saying, "Ronaldo should always start." Which clearly undermined the manager at the time Ole Gunnar Solskjær.

- Darren Fletcher was part of the coaching staff under the previous failed regime, yet there he was on the touchline last night against Wolves, giving instructions to the players. I have already mentioned how fiercely loyal SAF is to his fellow countrymen, and you only have to look at who took over the reigns when SAF stepped down... David Moyes of course, on a 6-year contract no less.
Is SAF still pulling some strings? Of course he is
Is SAF making sure Fletcher stays in the dugout, and even shoeing him in as the next manager of Manchester United? I wouldn't be surprised, let's put it that way.

 

[Red the Bear]

Liverpool gone on a 30 year drought and they were just fine. Now if you mean becoming a joke , well hate to break it to ya but we kinda already are one.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Slightly darker question around our post SAF plight.

Anyway we seem to be about to lose out on CL again. Our players are either shit, unmotivated or there is a split in the dressing room. We have a decent youth squad but it's rarely used. We have a crumbling stadium. We have owners that don't care about our success. We have huge debts and don't have unlimited oil money. Seemingly no manager can improve us (not a slight on Ralf, who hopefully will have everyone laughing at this thread soon).

So at what point do we become a historic giant and simply be a mid table club that can no longer attract the best talent? As in we is there a breaking point between 'getting back to where we belong' and simply not belonging there anymore?

We are the new Arsenal (minus the cup performances maybe ). We will be there and there abouts of top 4.

 

[Gandalf]

We are the new Arsenal (minus the cup performances maybe ). We will be there and there abouts of top 4.

We can't be the new Arsenal because Arsenal are the new Arsenal. I know they got a nice run going with those 1-0 wins over Norwich and Burnley and that has given them momentum and a few pretty performances but they still got beaten by a Carrick coached United and are about to run into a tough stretch of their schedule. Arsenal will always be the definition of false promise.

 

[Luffy]

When the Glazers bankrupt us.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Yeah, we're irrelevant in the EPL since 2013 and the reasons are well known.(no experienced dof, questionable manager appointments, overpaid players, players that play only because they're locals, etc).
Other than that, we know the issue lies with having the wrong players and, until we make some massive changes to this squad, we're going to continue being irrelevant.

 

[Paxi]

Spoiler: When?

 

[Gehrman]

Liverpool essentially have their version of Fergie, he's been there 7-odd years now, likewise with Guardiola at City.

Still a long way away from Busby's and Fergie's stints.

 

[Green_Red]

We haven't finished midtable for 30 years you nutter.

We're midtable right now

 

[SAFMUTD]

We wont bocome Irrelevant, but were going out the big boys table really fast. Real top talent wont come here, I mean sure we can attract Sancho, and a 37 year old Cristiano but we can't attract players like Mbappe or Haaland. We have already step down as one of the top clubs, were just a big name club and its been that way since Sir Alex left.

 

[Withnail]

When?

Clear typo in the title

 

[2 man midfield]

Depends what you mean by irrelevant. Are you talking in terms of winning things or getting clicks?

We’ve not been on City’s radar for nearly a decade when it comes to competing for the league. I know we were top a year ago, but it lasted about 45 seconds. They don’t even care what we’re up to half the time as they don’t need to worry about us - I’d say that’s pretty irrelevant.

As far as fan base/media then it’ll be pretty much never. We’ve got the largest global following and can still attract great players and massive sponsorship deals. That won’t go away any time soon, but it doesn’t win you trophies. That’s what matters for me, and we haven’t won a sausage in over 4 years. I’d argue we’re there right now, since the commercial side doesn’t mean shit to me.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

When we hired Mourinho but didn’t back him in the transfer market or support him with who he wanted to sell.

As soon as we did that, it became clear that the owners and board were no longer trying to win.

 

[Cheimoon]

We're midtable right now

Where does midtable start anyway? I think sixth isn't yet, but does seventh count? (From 2013-14)

 

[Carolina Red]

So at what point do we become a historic giant and simply be a mid table club that can no longer attract the best talent?

Social media has already started to leave us behind. Most of the posts about “big clubs” or whatnot that you see on socials now have Man City instead of Man United… included alongside the likes of Real Madrid, Bayern, PSG, Juventus, and Barcelona.

 

[alexthelion]

Slightly darker question around our post SAF plight.

Anyway we seem to be about to lose out on CL again. Our players are either shit, unmotivated or there is a split in the dressing room. We have a decent youth squad but it's rarely used. We have a crumbling stadium. We have owners that don't care about our success. We have huge debts and don't have unlimited oil money. Seemingly no manager can improve us (not a slight on Ralf, who hopefully will have everyone laughing at this thread soon).

So at what point do we become a historic giant and simply be a mid table club that can no longer attract the best talent? As in we is there a breaking point between 'getting back to where we belong' and simply not belonging there anymore?

Didn't happen in the 26 years between Sir Matt and SAF, why would it happen now after only 9 years?

 

[Mickeza]

In a sporting sense? A few years. From a media sense? Never. We’re the greatest soap opera in sport.

 

[Rampant Red Rodriguez]

Didn't happen in the 26 years between Sir Matt and SAF, why would it happen now after only 9 years?

And the modern day fan base are so hyper critical of every thing the club does, it's like a distraction embedded in the mass media.. I see such critical views about any mistakes by people who think we were always infallible in the Fergie years, it's really disturbing..

There's a process to be done and it takes time. Our squad is shit in midfield and is bandaged up in the fwd department.. We have had little continuity of games and training with the new manager.. And we are in a league of game raising cnuts who always reserve their best performance of the season for us..

Its a huge challenge to get to the top again and unless we get organised we're going to be staying around 4th to 6th because Chelsea City and Liverpool are alot lot more organised than us in the team and in the offices above the pitch..

We need to get organised and being hyper critical is making us desperate because if we chase out 'Reck it Ralph we will be in bigger shit because no one will be able to manage us because of the pressure the fans put on the playing staff and coaches.

 

[Speako]

We’ll never be irrelevant, ever. We maybe shit, but never ever irrelevant. I started going in ‘85 when a decade earlier we were in the 2nd division ffs and we were still the most talked about club in the world. Some things of course have changed since then, but some have most definitely not and never will.