That's such a silly cliche and far from the truth. Just look at Fernandinho at City for example, who has been massively underappreciated when he was doing all the truely important quiet work next to Yaya. Especially in central midfield, we didn't really have that many great Southamerican players compared to European ones in the last 15-20 years and quite a few are rather underrated than overrated.
Where does Carrick go in terms of all time greats for United?
- Thread starter Cooksen
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A bit of perspective, none of the bold names were holding midfielders for their sides in 12/13. The only one who was positioned in front of the defense as the deepest midfielder was Pirlo. But then again, Pirlo is the epitome of the deep lying play maker and a one in a lifetime player when it comes to skills on the ball. He's not a holding midfielder as he never had the defensive duties that usually come with the holding role. The three superb CBs behind him and the crowded midfield ahead of him operated as Napoleon's Old Guard.
As for the rest, Busquets didn't have the best of seasons that year (and the year before that). Whenever the going got tough for Barcelona and they couldn't play their natural game, he simply followed the whole team's collapse. (Not so) surprisingly enough, in the first half of this season, during which Barca seemed to lack the fine tuning of Enrique's first seasons, he's not having a good season again. Make of this what you will.
Martinez was very good that season indeed, Alonso did nothing exceptional (for his normal standards that is but Jose's last season there was a strange one).
Silly thing is if Fernandinho was english he'd be rated so highly and much more so than Carrick. Likewise if Carrick was german, no one would even rate him anywhere as high as some do on here. His englishness leads to fans overrating him.
Well they all have poor seasons now and then, some of them can have even two in a row, and he specifically said season 2012./2013, didn't he?
For example Kroos was injured for half of that season and didn't play much so it's obvious you just named top players off top of your head.
Modric(someone mentioned him) missed some of the most important games of the season, he played just as a sub in both games against us(Carrick was better than all their midfielders in those games) in which we were better side than Madrid, then they got past us because of that red card and were terrible against fecking Galatasaray later and were helped again only by referees, only to be embarassed by Dortmund in semifinals. In all those games I remember everyone criticising Xabi Alonso because he mostly costed them that year in big games(worst rated player against Galata) and Modric was very poor that year. They are both rated very poorly on whoscored too for that season, Modric was just 9th best rated Real Madrid player that year, and he was actually left on the bench in many games that year and Real Madrid didn't win anything that year.
Shall I continue or will you admit you just named top midfielders over past few years?
Its not. Foreign fans, internet fans rate shiny new foreign signings higher than fantastic club servants. 100% the case. Many of those will have wanted / expected Basti to come in and dump carrick on the bench. The same with kagawa / rooney.
Internet / foreign fans give foreigners a easier ride and rate them higher whilst underrating players like Carrick....Sheasy...Butty etc.
Match going fans will tend to give home grown players the benefit of the doubt....they don't get as upset as the foreign fans when Mhikitaryan isn't straight in the side for example
Whilst his class and contribution have been far greater than the likes of Butty and Sheasy he falls in the same "underrated" bracket on forums such as this where the majority are foreign fans and non match going.
This isn't an holy than thou post about match goers and out of towners. The truth is usually somewhere in between ie Sheasy and Butty and maybe even Carrick should have been moved on and replaced a bit sooner, whilst the likes of Kagawa maybe should have had more of a go in his preferred role. However, there is a difference in attitude and appreciation amongst the two different types of fan.
Pleased somebody had the time to rubbish that thread. Its a great point about Juve's 3 centre halves taking the defensive responsibility off Pirlo (awesome player btw). Equally the Busquets point.
In 2012 not one of those players would have improved Man Utd in Carrick place. Not one.
There is a debate to be had about who is better etc but as many are quite different its a difficult argument and comes down to preference.
Carrick is outstanding at getting the best out of others.
Im sure if you asked Paul Pogba to pick one player to start for United......his first response would be Micheal Carrick
I didn't even have Modric in my list. Modric since that season though proved he's just in a completely different stratosphere to Carrick, and would be right towards the top of the list of top midfielders over the last few years.
As I forgot about Gundogan you can throw him in that list better than Carrick too, take out Alonso if necessary. Kroos played most of that season, got injured in QF against Juventus.
Because he really has a wealth of options to choose from doesn't he. Blind, Fellaini..
It's just highlighting his worth to the team isn't just his own performance but the dramatic improvement in the performance of the team. Yet again a very underrated and often over looked quality.
Okay everyone is better than Carrick who was our best player that season and best midfielder in the league, and put some good performance in the CL, good to know. No point discussing it.
All very different players. Compare Modirc and Gundongan to Herrera by all minds. Apples and oranges against Carrick though
Just imagine us having Gundogan, Kroos, or Pirlo next to Cleverley that season, we would be amazing.
Well I never saw that coming... Carrick's Englishness means he gets overrated 
Doesn't mean that much really. Our midfield was abysmal and the standard of midfielders in the league in general was poor.
12/13 was probably Messi's worst season (in the last 10 or so) and Van Persie's career highlight. Still think Messi was the better player over that year.
At the end of the day he made an enormous contribution to one of the most successful 5 years of the clubs history. That’s a fact. If people’s opinion are that Gundogan is/was better then that’s their opinion of which they are entitled.
Avoiding a debate on how good he was or was’nt and comparisons with players I’ll just remember all those occasions when he was consistently 7.5 / 8 out of 10 in title winning sides, in going to European cup finals. He maybe didn’t make the difference individually but he certainly knitted together the collective and I have personally witnessed him lift just as many…..if not more trophies than Keano and (definitely) Robbo.
Exceptional servant to the club, never caused a hint of controversy or problems, proper United player and proper United legend.
Cheers Carras lad!!
Avoiding a debate on how good he was or was’nt and comparisons with players I’ll just remember all those occasions when he was consistently 7.5 / 8 out of 10 in title winning sides, in going to European cup finals. He maybe didn’t make the difference individually but he certainly knitted together the collective and I have personally witnessed him lift just as many…..if not more trophies than Keano and (definitely) Robbo.
Exceptional servant to the club, never caused a hint of controversy or problems, proper United player and proper United legend.
Cheers Carras lad!!
Modric single handedly held together a midfield of Khedira and Angel Di Maria in a Champions League final. He's shown he can play Carrick's role and to a higher standard than Carrick can, it just would be a humongous waste of his talent at this stage of his career.
You say that as if Khedira and Di Maria are Cleverly and Anderson......the irony!
Carricks achievements, consistency, value, reliability and longevity make him a club legend in my eyes, so irrespective of the who has previously played in his position in the past and who has done what for other clubs.
And Atletico Madrid in the Champions League final are err... Stoke City!
He'll go down as one of those players. A legend, yes. But not a super-legend, or a mega-legend.
Clearly not. Like I say though, I couldn't really care less what modric has done for Madrid. I suspect nor does the OP given the title of the thread.
Where does Carrick go in terms of all time greats for united???? For me......up there.
Where does Modric go in terms of all time greats for United??? No where
Where does Modric go in terms of all time greats for Madrid??? I couldn't care less.
I think when he's been retired for a few years pundits and fans alike will hold in such esteem as vidic, Ferdinand, evra, van der sar.
An excellent servant of the club and a huge influence on the way we played. Calming influence, dictated games, passing ability etc.
A united great. But not a legend.
An excellent servant of the club and a huge influence on the way we played. Calming influence, dictated games, passing ability etc.
A united great. But not a legend.
He's a hard one to rate because how good he looks will depends on who's around him.
Put in him a terrible team and he's just about useless because he's not going to take charge of the game and just go to hell with it like Keane or Gerrard does.
Put him in a team with good players and he'll be the difference between a title winning squad and one that finishes in the top 4.
Put in him a terrible team and he's just about useless because he's not going to take charge of the game and just go to hell with it like Keane or Gerrard does.
Put him in a team with good players and he'll be the difference between a title winning squad and one that finishes in the top 4.
Modric is not better than Carrick in the defensive role, c'mon now.
I think we all know that in terms of defensive abilities, Carrick is much better than Pirlo, and IMO he is slightly better than Busqets and Xabi too, many people criticize Carrick because he often wilts under pressure, while Pirlo and Busqets keep taking responsibilities under pressure or man marking, the same could not be said about Carrick
Last game for example, whenever Firmino or Lallana come close to him he shirks and play a bad passes, while Busqets or Pirlo would probably tried to dribbled past the opponent because their superior footwork skill, and that did not happen once or twice but many times, not saying that Carrick always play bad under pressure, but in many occasion he does, and also it's not like Pirlo or Busqets always capable of handling the pressure well, but most of the time they does
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He will be remembered like Park Ji Sung is remembered. Every time his name comes up people will all agree he was a great player, but he wil never be in any one's all time starting eleven
That is so easy to say but who did Pirlo have playing alongside him... players like Vidal and Pogba. Point being just because Pirlo was marked meant there were many other great players to help carry the load which is why it happened so rarely. It is hard to shut down multiple great players.
Compare to Carrick. Since Scholes retired (and even then Scholes was in the twilight of his career and it was a 2 man midfield) and this year with Herrera and Pogba, who has been there to help carry the load? Heck we all rave about Keane and he was playing alongside Butt or Scholes. Makes it much easier to shine when surrounded by quality to help you elevate your game. Point being get Carrick on a decent side with some decent CMs ala Keane or Pirlo and he shines like this year or do you really believe the unbeaten streak this year with Pogba and Herrera as well as our most dominant period ever with Scholes are completely coincidental and or Carrick was just baggage?
Well this thread confirms he certainly is the most underrated. In terms of playmaking, range of passing, vision, controlling the tempo of his passing game and passing accuracy he's levels above Robson and Keane. But to many fans he's not getting 'stuck in as much' so isn't as good. The same fans who cry and scream how Scholes is underrated and great because of his control of the game and playmaking completely malign Carrick's similar abilities.
It's not unique to United fans, I've seen the same attitudes to the like of Arteta at Arsenal. These type of players control the game, control possession, make it easier for creative players in front of them to function. But he's not scoring 30 yard worldies or constantly attempting hollywood balls or lunging in 2 footed so it doesn't excite the masses.
The thing about Carrick is he didn't have great midfield partners for the most part. If you put a Busquets or Xabi Alonso alongside him the midfield would be that more formidable. And in his prime he had to play in a midfield 2 against 3 man midfielders.
It's not unique to United fans, I've seen the same attitudes to the like of Arteta at Arsenal. These type of players control the game, control possession, make it easier for creative players in front of them to function. But he's not scoring 30 yard worldies or constantly attempting hollywood balls or lunging in 2 footed so it doesn't excite the masses.
The thing about Carrick is he didn't have great midfield partners for the most part. If you put a Busquets or Xabi Alonso alongside him the midfield would be that more formidable. And in his prime he had to play in a midfield 2 against 3 man midfielders.
This is key really, put Vidal or Pogba or Pirlo in a midfield 2 next to Anderson, Jones or Cleverley and see how well they do. In turn put Prime Carrick in a Bayern, Barce or Juve time and he'd shine even brighter.
There are 2 types of DMs; 1. those whose excel in breaking up play and 2. interceptors who excel in being deep-lying playmakers.
As far as deep lying playmakers go he is arguably the best ever in England
As far as deep lying playmakers go he is arguably the best ever in England
Alternatively put Alonso or Busquets in a side with Anderson and Cleverly and see how Best XI/All-World they are then
.Wow. First off that is bull.
And for argument's, let's say those attributes are true on paper. In a real match, Carrick doesn't have half their attitude, bravery, fight or mentality to be anything as effective. And we're not talking about blood and thunder, running and/or tackling, we're talking about on the ball.
That's the problem we with Carrick. Neat and tidy when all is good. Missing when the going gets tough.