Where does Cristiano Ronaldo rank in the All time list?

Where does C.Ronaldo rank in the All time list of greatest players?

  • A. Top 3 of all time

  • B. Top 10

  • C. Top 20

  • D. "Top 5 player all time? I'd say he's not top 5 in the past 25 years even."


Results are only viewable after voting.
Not that I'm putting him up there with Maradona and Pele, but it has nothing to do with pure talent, and everything to do with the application of said talent on the pitch.

Apart from the fact that there's no standard method for gauging this ethereal quality called "talent", Ronaldo with his less talented self has blown players out of the water who have been deemed much more talented.

I agree and that's why he's top 5.

But you don't need a method to see that the talent of Pele, Maradona, Messi and Di Stefano are unmatched.

I don't know what's your application to talent. You can consider Cristiano (as I do) as the best goalscorer that's ever lived. But speaking about titles, he has only a few. I wouldn't say his talent has been applied correctly.



And as some people said before: Messi for example makes historical plays that you will always remember. Cristiano has done nothing like the goal against Bayern or the Copa del Rey final goal.
 
I agree and that's why he's top 5.

But you don't need a method to see that the talent of Pele, Maradona, Messi and Di Stefano are unmatched.

I don't know what's your application to talent. You can consider Cristiano (as I do) as the best goalscorer that's ever lived. But speaking about titles, he has only a few. I wouldn't say his talent has been applied correctly.



And as some people said before: Messi for example makes historical plays that you will always remember. Cristiano has done nothing like the goal against Bayern or the Copa del Rey final goal.

He has 4 titles and 2 CLs. It's not a stretch to assume that if he stayed with United he would have won more titles, plus he (and Mourinho and others) snatched one title away from prime time Barcelona, a team that most United fans conceded 2 CL titles to (wrongly, but that's another subject). I don't see how anyone can have the details of his career in England and Spain and conclude that his application has been lacking.

You should know that just repeating stuff over and over doesn't make it true. If you remember anything about United from 2003 to 2009 you would know that was false. If you listened to anything Madrid fans have had to say on his propensity to score amazing goals you would know that statement is false.

He doesn't even make my top 5.
 
By that standard Messi should have at least 2 Ballon D'Ors stripped away from him.
Yes. Which is why the award has become a farcical procession, imo.

And sorry Fortitude, but Ronaldo has plenty performances in the domestic scene and in Europe where he beat the odds and won. To deny such reveals your ignorance about his career overall.
In this company, you can't pull up match-winning goals against the likes of Fulham. Feel free to name Ronaldo's career defining, great games that weren't Porto and Roma for us or the Sweden matches for his country.
 
Another thing : Cristiano's ex-teammates are reluctant to talk about him as an all-time legendary talent..
 
In this company, you can't pull up match-winning goals against the likes of Fulham. Feel free to name Ronaldo's career defining, great games that weren't Porto and Roma for us or the Sweden matches for his country.

Barcelona? Atletico Madrid? Bayern? Chelsea? Arsenal? Inter Milan? Liverpool? Lyon? Roma (in 2008, the 2007 performance was an anomaly I'm sure)

I'm sure you'll knock them off due to some technicalities about how unsexy the goals were, but do carry on.
 
Nah, if we're going to pigeon hole Ronaldo the wide forward as someone who only scores goals, Puskas was a marksman even at Honved. It's only fair by the standard of definitions being used against Cristiano, who has also shown a huge array of skills beside the productivity angle. I'm not in a dog-fight to defend Ronaldo either, I rarely ever post in the Messi vs Ronaldo threads so it's not like I have some ulterior motive to inflate his profile. Which is why I didn't pump him beyond Pele, Messi, Maradona, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Di Stefano like some others did. Ronaldo being on a similar level to Puskas, and a notch behind those mentioned is quite a deliberate opinion.
Yes, one you are welcome to but that I simply do not agree with. One is the catalyst for two of the greatest teams of all-time and did fantastically as a supplemental player in a third side, the other, since around 2008, perhaps 2009 at a stretch, has become a reductive player overly reliant on team-mates doing great things for him to then take over from. As some others have said, cut off his supply, and his impact on a game will drop dramatically, as we see constantly for Portugal. If Ronaldo is what people tout him to be, that shouldn't be the case, or at least, it shouldn't be the case to the point people can make definitive statements like that and be proven correct on it - those Sweden-level games are outliers rather than the norm' and that shouldn't be the case if Ronaldo is supposedly one of the 5, 10, 15 etc. best ever to play football.

Didn't gloss over the argument, it's just that we will fundamentally never arrive at median ground as far as that part is concerned. The names around the player, and the style of play being implemented under a managerial great like Sebes matter a lot, let's not diminish that. If Cruyff for one didn't have Michels and Neeskens and Krol and Keizer, would he have been considered in the same regard? What if Diego Maradona played under a manager who restricted his instinctive individualistic streak? You're making it sound as if the rest of the team doesn't matter, that the whole picture should be discounted, and the player should be treated in isolation when football at its core is a collective sport, and attackers might not even see the ball than often. The notion that Ronaldo offers nothing for Portugal is entirely misleading, and he has shown that he is notches above the rest of the team. Really, who is the Portuguese national team (since Figo retired) has been consistently similar on a qualitative level for a meaningful period of time?
The names are important when we talk about winning trophies, not competing and showing yourself to be an exceptional player who can take your team to heights unknown because you are that good. The Magyar team for example is talked about in terms and on par with World Cup winning sides with players expected to go all the way to finals and claim the top prize. Anything less for that level of team is seen as a failure. I don't think a single soul expects Ronaldo to carry Portugal to a World or Euro final by himself, what they do ask, however, is for him to be outstanding and not just part of the crowd with the sinking ship, which he has been in a number of tournaments to date.

And even when we look at those great sides, there's good, better and then best by a distance, which is what the likes of Platini, Puskas, Cruyff, Pele, Di Stefano etc. are. It's quite clear that no matter how good those team-mates were, these guys are operating on an even higher level.

It's not often I watch Portugal and think Ronaldo is wasted in that team, where it should be the case that nearly every time I watch them I'm thinking these guys are the only thing holding Ronaldo back from international glory.

That's not circumventing the issue at hand. It's just that folks delineate the debate and enforce a sense of macro focus on the Portuguese national team in an era where club football is likely more important and competitive than it has ever been, with national team football assuming a background role. With Ronaldo people have a tendency to completely overlook his strengths, while emphasizing those of the others; and find weaknesses in his game to detract from his achievements. Case in point - the constant hyperbolic overemphasis on international football, when as I said before, Di Stefano and Best achieved next to zilch with their national team. It's not a prerequisite to be considered among the best of the best, as especially, the former evidenced.

Folks will complain about how Cristiano is not a 'play maker', but overlook the fact that his productivity is in a whole another realm compared to players who're professed to be superior to him. They will look at his lack of 'big game achievements', but overlook the fact that he is ultra-effective week in and week out, and makes his team competitive on a uniform basis rather than sporadic national team appearances. They will opine about how he's not an artist and is uncouth to watch. But overlook the fact that his game is predicated on his strength and explosiveness. They will look at how he doesn't display the versatility that he did at United. But overlook the system he's been placed in. They will look at how he scores tap ins. But overlook the absolute screamer he scores, and how he's arguably the greatest overall set pieces thread of atleast the past decade and a half if not more. And so forth..
You didn't answer about what Neymar's doing, or comment at all on Keane doing what he did where both are strong and valid points of reason to look at Ronaldo and ask why he rarely does the same despite, supposedly being a superior player to both of them. You are glossing over this line of debate because it deviates from the narrative you want to have in it.

International football will never be hyperbolic, and in this day and age of ridiculously stacked club squads gobbling up all the available talent, international football becomes an easy gauge on who is the same player across the board and who fades when not given the best of everything to thrive. Case in point, Neymar, who looks like a world class player seemingly wherever he goes or whomever he plays with. To date in his career he is ticking every single box needed domestically, in the CL/CLib and for his country with no deviation in performance or output. That's the gold standard that always was, and always will be, as far as I, and many others, are concerned. There's no excuses or flubbing or adding caveats - the kid is on an exceptional path thus far in his career. I think Luis Suarez is another one with a similarly exceptional performance output as he has shown for club and country he is the exact same player and cannot be faulted for what he brings to that NT even if no one ever expects them to win anything. Another one? Robben, who has excelled across the board and shone in a crap Dutch team. The names could keep coming and they make it clear Ronaldo has no excuse in this department - he just underachieves (or fails to shine) more often than not.

Balu already covered Di Stefano, and Best playing for a genuine minnow nation does not put him in the category of NT Ronaldo has had throughout his career. Portugal and Northern Ireland are far from like-for-like.

I don't expect Ronaldo to be a playmaker or have any #10 traits. As I said earlier, it's unfair to even compare him to someone like Messi in this regard because he came up as a winger, all I expect is for him to be that talismanic player who it's clear is outstanding and being let down by others, similar to the point when most of the aforementioned players meet proper quality teams in these tournaments and are then knocked out.

I will say, though, that Ronaldo probably has a good 5 years left at the very top and is likely to become an out-and-out striker very soon. I don't think his career story has been concluded yet and he may yet do the things that elevate further for people like me and Spoony and whoever else is underwhelmed by certain elements of what they have seen thus far.

In this kind of company, everything should be scrutinised and evaluated, don't you think?
 
And that's the problem. Loads of goals but nothing particularly defining. But the stats man!
Yes, but pointing this out means you don't rate or respect the player, or something.
Barcelona? Atletico Madrid? Bayern? Chelsea? Arsenal? Inter Milan? Liverpool? Lyon? Roma (in 2008, the 2007 performance was an anomaly I'm sure)

I'm sure you'll knock them off due to some technicalities about how unsexy the goals were, but do carry on.
You've just named some clubs, what about them? What games are you talking about that Ronaldo will be remembered for the ages from in those?

Tell me which are his career-defining, out of this world performances in those.

I think the Sweden games are the best I've ever seen Ronaldo play, personally. Those are games I'll think of as Ronaldo at his absolute best. I can think of a few others, but all of them are for us and happened a long time ago.
 
Top 10. He and Messi are enjoying the limelight of being current players, but in 50 years i think he will be viewed just behind the likes of Maradona and Pele. Perhaps two levels below, with Messi one level below.

Whilst the instant availability of highlights of everything hes ever done helps his reputation, the lack of mystique present in players like Maradona and Garrincha detracts from it.

You could also say the instant availability works in the favour of the older players. Players like Maradona weren't under the microscope like Messi/C.Ronaldo are right now, where every game is game micro-analysed.
 
Case in point - the constant hyperbolic overemphasis on international football, when as I said before, Di Stefano and Best achieved next to zilch with their national team. It's not a prerequisite to be considered among the best of the best, as especially, the former evidenced.
In Di Stefano's case he really didn't have the opportunity to shine. And in fact I'd argue that, had he a strong World Cup to his name and dominated one in the same way that he did the European Cup at the time, he'd be entrenched in that top 3-4 tier rather than considered in the next rung down. There's clearly a difference between Best not having any opportunity to shine for his international team and someone like Ronaldo who has spurned a number of opportunities to do the business. He was good in Euro 2004 and the 2006 World Cup, but in the four following tournaments he underperformed significantly. Only in 2012 did he threaten to come strong, but it slipped from his grasp in the semi-final against Spain. While Portugal have never been amazing during that period, they reached the semi-finals in 2006 and 2012 and have typically been very competitive at the top end. When you're competing with the likes of Platini and Zico who have outstanding tournaments to their name, any consistent underperformance will inevitably be a black mark.
 
You've just named some clubs, what about them? What games are you talking about that Ronaldo will be remembered for the ages from in those?

Tell me which are his career-defining, out of this world performances in those.

I think the Sweden games are the best I've ever seen Ronaldo play, personally. Those are games I'll think of as Ronaldo at his absolute best. I can think of a few others, but all of them are for us and happened a long time ago.

I just think you're not watching his games at all.

Arsenal away at the Emirates in 2009
Inter Milan away in 2009
Bayern Munich home and away, CL semi finals 2014
Atletico Madrid away 2012
Barcelona away 2012, Copa Del Ray final (can't remember the year)
Chelsea final in 2008
Roma away 2008
Liverpool away 2014 (I think)

And that's against some of the "big clubs" for starters. I'm sure I'm missing others. But speak to a Madrid fan and ask if Ronaldo has any "career-defining, out of this world" performances.
 
You could also say the instant availability works in the favour of the older players. Players like Maradona weren't under the microscope like Messi/C.Ronaldo are right now, where every game is game micro-analysed.
It works both ways. Today's attacking players benefit because every bit of class is shown to a worldwide audience and almost every goal in the Messi thread is greeted with 'best player eva'. But equally all that analysis is one of the many reasons why today's best defenders aren't considered the greatest of all time: because we see their mistakes in great detail time and time again. Yesterday's attackers don't get the same attention paid to the good stuff they did, a lot of it unfilmed or on grainy old footage suitable for nerds only. But yesterday's defenders get the benefit of the doubt because we have next to no appreciation of them ever making errors - which ultimately is how we judge them.
 
Your list is biased as hell if you think entertainment goes anywhere near justifying someone's place as a top 10 player of all time while others gets marked down for not achieving in international football.

Not entertainment per se. But between two players who both score loads, the one who can dribble past players for fun, pass the ball whichever way he likes it and generally puts defenders in a panic for all the things he does besides hunting chances, will be seen as quite a bit better than the one who spends most of his time waiting for the right ball to be played to him.

That's what sets Pele, fat Ronaldo and Messi apart from him.

I am caricaturing cronaldo a bit here as he is not exactly inzaghi. But take goals away from those 3 and add Maradona and you have the four players whose overall game is the most devastating we've seen. Cronaldos game is good, but only sporadically exceptional.
 
Yes, but pointing this out means you don't rate or respect the player, or something.

You've just named some clubs, what about them? What games are you talking about that Ronaldo will be remembered for the ages from in those?

Tell me which are his career-defining, out of this world performances in those.

I think the Sweden games are the best I've ever seen Ronaldo play, personally. Those are games I'll think of as Ronaldo at his absolute best. I can think of a few others, but all of them are for us and happened a long time ago.

There were several El Classico back then where Ronaldo was absolutely playing like a beast over Barca. Can't remembered which one though as there were many of them over the years. But those matches were absolutely thrilling to watch, some of the best football I've ever seen. I don't know if they are career-defining, but some of the individual performance there were truly amazing and have lasting memory to me even today.

From the video below you can see how good he used to play against them. Good old times indeed. Its pity he never bother to play like that anymore these days, rather he took the minimalist approach (for longevity reason?) cutting out all those thrilling side of his game but he still scored plenty.

 
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Yes, one you are welcome to but that I simply do not agree with. One is the catalyst for two of the greatest teams of all-time and did fantastically as a supplemental player in a third side, the other, since around 2008, perhaps 2009 at a stretch, has become a reductive player overly reliant on team-mates doing great things for him to then take over from. As some others have said, cut off his supply, and his impact on a game will drop dramatically, as we see constantly for Portugal. If Ronaldo is what people tout him to be, that shouldn't be the case, or at least, it shouldn't be the case to the point people can make definitive statements like that and be proven correct on it - those Sweden-level games are outliers rather than the norm' and that shouldn't be the case if Ronaldo is supposedly one of the 5, 10, 15 etc. best ever to play football.

Ronaldo does not rely solely on his team-mates to create goals for himself, I don't know where you're getting the impression from. People make him out to be some Ruud Van Nistelrooy/ Inzaghi type supercharged sniping artists, when in actuality he is perfectly capable of fashioning goals for himself out of thin air, and bringing others into play. That is evidenced by the fact that he is on pace to reach 100, or even match Figo's tally of 105 la Liga assists behind Messi; plus he has more Champions League assists than Xavi and Iniesta and Pirlo, and is on his way to equaling Giggs' Champions League mark of 30. And just for the record, Puskas was more of a finisher than a director even at Honved, and for Hungary. He too had heaps of tap-ins and reductive goals supplied by the players I've mentioned before. Again, at the risk of repeating myself, some of the arguments are duplicitous. Puskas' achievements always came with teams that were filled to the brim with talent. So how can you hold Ronaldo to this standard?

has become a reductive player overly reliant on team-mates doing great things for him to then take over from. As some others have said, cut off his supply, and his impact on a game will drop dramatically, as we see constantly for Portugal.
Did Ferenc really prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he can consistently lead Honved, Hungary and Madrid without stacked lineups, and team-mates that supplied him with the ammunition? No, he didn't. Hence why the arguments are set up to be intrinsically flawed.

The names are important when we talk about winning trophies, not competing and showing yourself to be an exceptional player who can take your team to heights unknown because you are that good. The Magyar team for example is talked about in terms and on par with World Cup winning sides with players expected to go all the way to finals and claim the top prize. Anything less for that level of team is seen as a failure. I don't think a single soul expects Ronaldo to carry Portugal to a World or Euro final by himself, what they do ask, however, is for him to be outstanding and not just part of the crowd with the sinking ship, which he has been in a number of tournaments to date.

And even when we look at those great sides, there's good, better and then best by a distance, which is what the likes of Platini, Puskas, Cruyff, Pele, Di Stefano etc. are. It's quite clear that no matter how good those team-mates were, these guys are operating on an even higher level.

It's not often I watch Portugal and think Ronaldo is wasted in that team, where it should be the case that nearly every time I watch them I'm thinking these guys are the only thing holding Ronaldo back from international glory.

How is Ronaldo not competing and showing himself? He is the highest scorer of all time for the national team, the highest assist maker for Portugal in the European Championships, the third highest assist maker for Portugal in the World Cup, the highest scorer for Portugal in the European Championships. Isn't that competing and showing himself? Or is that him stealing his team-mates' thunder and scoring tap ins? How is anything less than the Golden Team considered as failure when the contrast between supporting casts and managers in like night and day? He is not a part of the crows with the sinking ship, one man cannot rescue a losing situation again, and again, and again. And, as I've also said in another post, Portugal's record with Ronaldo is rather good, contrary to popular perception :

When Ronaldo for example had a Figo at the start of his international career, they reached the finals of Euro 2004 at age 19 (where he was named in the team of the tournament, and was arguably one of the Top 3 young players behind Rooney), and the semis of the 2006 World Cup at age 21. Once the Portuguese team became abysmal compared to the likes of Spain, Germany, and atleast half a dozen other teamsl and Quieroz and Bento took charge, did he genuinely have a great chance to achieve success in international competitions? I don't think so to be honest. Also, just to gauge Portugal in the tournaments a bit :

Euro 2004 : On the team of the tournament, scored the opening goal in the semis to send Portugal to the final.
World Cup 2006 : Narrowly lost in the semis to France.
Euro 2008 : Edged out by finalists Germany.
2010 World Cup : Lost 1-0 to eventual Champions Spain against a highly functional defense that just didn't concede.
Euro 2012 : Reached the semi-finals, lost to Spain again, a team that eventually handled Italy.

Portugal was far inferior to all the teams they eventually lost to. Did Ronaldo help them superior teams, yes he did, but there's only so much he can do when Portugal's ceiling is limited compared to the Magyars, Cruyff's Holland, Pele's Brazil, and so forth. That's one final, 2 semi-final losses where they lost to Spain's golden generation and Germany; and two others where they lost to the eventual finalists (including France with Zidane, Makelele, Thuram, Vieira, Henry, Ribery and co.), all teams that were far superior to Portugal apart from Greece, and Ronaldo was 19 when they lost Euro 2004 at home.
 
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contd.
You didn't answer about what Neymar's doing, or comment at all on Keane doing what he did where both are strong and valid points of reason to look at Ronaldo and ask why he rarely does the same despite, supposedly being a superior player to both of them. You are glossing over this line of debate because it deviates from the narrative you want to have in it.

International football will never be hyperbolic, and in this day and age of ridiculously stacked club squads gobbling up all the available talent, international football becomes an easy gauge on who is the same player across the board and who fades when not given the best of everything to thrive. Case in point, Neymar, who looks like a world class player seemingly wherever he goes or whomever he plays with. To date in his career he is ticking every single box needed domestically, in the CL/CLib and for his country with no deviation in performance or output. That's the gold standard that always was, and always will be, as far as I, and many others, are concerned. There's no excuses or flubbing or adding caveats - the kid is on an exceptional path thus far in his career. I think Luis Suarez is another one with a similarly exceptional performance output as he has shown for club and country he is the exact same player and cannot be faulted for what he brings to that NT even if no one ever expects them to win anything. Another one? Robben, who has excelled across the board and shone in a crap Dutch team. The names could keep coming and they make it clear Ronaldo has no excuse in this department - he just underachieves (or fails to shine) more often than not.

Balu already covered Di Stefano, and Best playing for a genuine minnow nation does not put him in the category of NT Ronaldo has had throughout his career. Portugal and Northern Ireland are far from like-for-like.

I don't expect Ronaldo to be a playmaker or have any #10 traits. As I said earlier, it's unfair to even compare him to someone like Messi in this regard because he came up as a winger, all I expect is for him to be that talismanic player who it's clear is outstanding and being let down by others, similar to the point when most of the aforementioned players meet proper quality teams in these tournaments and are then knocked out.

I will say, though, that Ronaldo probably has a good 5 years left at the very top and is likely to become an out-and-out striker very soon. I don't think his career story has been concluded yet and he may yet do the things that elevate further for people like me and Spoony and whoever else is underwhelmed by certain elements of what they have seen thus far.

In this kind of company, everything should be scrutinised and evaluated, don't you think?

Aye, Neymar is ace :

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Friendlies of zero significance all around, 1 goal in the 2011 Copa America, 1 in the 2015 Copa America, 2 in his home nation with a public wave of euphoria. I mean, don't get me wrong, he has done well, but as a standard Ronaldo should be held to, someone who has conquered big game odds against severe competition to lead Brazil to tangible success? Never. Not to mention the fact that despite the narrative of Brazil being poor, they're actually much superior to Portugal giving Neymar the platform to shine. Similarly, Keane's performance was a bit anomalous over the larger sample size.

Again, do we really need to attach great credence to international performances when some of the best players of the modern era didn't fit in well with their teams and coaches? Is Klose a true great (like Top 50) because of his spectacular record with Germany? Not really. International games were very important back in the day when people rarely saw players on a weekly basis, and a lot of times the bigger competitions were the only ones that were televised, thus bringing in larger audiences and patriotic sentiment laced 'wow' moments. Did people watch Puskas every week at Honved to gauge his time adjusted, and league weighted performance vs Ronaldo whose every move and mis-step is dissected surgically? I really doubt it. Hence the mystique around international tournaments, and big fixtures (vs Germany or England at Wembley, in a time when the opponents didn't have in depth knowledge of tactics, and just weren't plain ready for Hungary's version of Total Football). That was the stage where the best of the best congregated to put on a show, as compared to the trifling Hungarian League. And also, as opposed to now when Ronaldo faces Barcelona atleast twice each season, Milan, United, Bayern and co. in the Champions League, clubs where the best players are.

That said, I do agree with your last point. All aspects should be judged. Which is why even though Ronaldo wasn't as creative as a Platini, his statistical output far outstrips Michel; even though he never had a tournament like Platini's legendary one, Ronaldo's performances in European club competition as a whole dwarf Michel; even though his peak might be somewhat lower, his consistent median on a weekly basis is almost godlike, and so forth. Some might not agree with, which is fair enough, these lists are often the epitome of subjectivity anyway. But by the same token, the argument that Ronaldo might deserve a spot alongside Platini, Zico and Puskas has a lot of merit; and shouldn't be readily dismissed.
 
Took a while to decide between top 10 and top 20 and settled for the lower.
 
Took a while to decide between top 10 and top 20 and settled for the lower.
I picked top 20 because I cant rank the top 20 in order. Ronaldo might be in the top 5 or the top 20 depending on what mood I am in. So many amazing players to choose from, I cant even pick a top 10, its just too hard.
 
In Di Stefano's case he really didn't have the opportunity to shine. And in fact I'd argue that, had he a strong World Cup to his name and dominated one in the same way that he did the European Cup at the time, he'd be entrenched in that top 3-4 tier rather than considered in the next rung down. There's clearly a difference between Best not having any opportunity to shine for his international team and someone like Ronaldo who has spurned a number of opportunities to do the business. He was good in Euro 2004 and the 2006 World Cup, but in the four following tournaments he underperformed significantly. Only in 2012 did he threaten to come strong, but it slipped from his grasp in the semi-final against Spain. While Portugal have never been amazing during that period, they reached the semi-finals in 2006 and 2012 and have typically been very competitive at the top end. When you're competing with the likes of Platini and Zico who have outstanding tournaments to their name, any consistent underperformance will inevitably be a black mark.

I'd say that Ronaldo had the chance - in a couple of very tight matches - to step up and win it for his team. And he failed to do so. Same goes for Messi, actually, if we're being fair.

It's always a question of margins and whatnot, obviously. Platini in both '82 and '86 being a case in point.

But then again, can you hold it against Platini (who didn't under-perform in the match as such, and who scored his penalty) that the Germans won in '82?

Fine margins indeed.

Stats and on-the-surface facts don't mean much. You need to dig deeper, clearly, in order to fairly assess these players. But with that in mind, it seems pretty obvious to me that neither Ronaldo nor Messi have any obvious excuses in terms of their international performances. They haven't made the most of the chances they've been offered.
 
I picked top 20 because I cant rank the top 20 in order. Ronaldo might be in the top 5 or the top 20 depending on what mood I am in. So many amazing players to choose from, I cant even pick a top 10, its just too hard.

I don't have an order either, I don't even think I can "rank" top 3. It's just a general impression of where I think he ranks. The fact I rank Messi as first, or at least top 3, and the fact I think Ronaldo is miles behind him, contribute to my assessment.
 
There are literally maybe 1 or 2 players ever who have reached Ronaldo's level of output he has to be top 10. Also for the guys who say he has no career defining matches. The truth is he performs soo consistently that its hard to pick because you always expect him to do it. Same with Messi I struggle to think of career defining matches because theres soo many matches hes been the match winner.
 
There are literally maybe 1 or 2 players ever who have reached Ronaldo's level of output he has to be top 10. Also for the guys who say he has no career defining matches. The truth is he performs soo consistently that its hard to pick because you always expect him to do it. Same with Messi I struggle to think of career defining matches because theres soo many matches hes been the match winner.

You look at Ronaldinho, you remember the chelsea games, what he did to Nesta and Maldini and perhaps most of all that game against madrid everyone seemed to watch.

Zidane, Euro2000 and WC06. That goal in the CL final.

Messi has not had quite as stunning a repertoire, I think for the same reason as Ronaldo - He's often been outrageous in the context of stunning team performances - whereas defining matches tend to be the ones where you rise above the level of of teammates and opponents to make the difference that could not be imagined otherwise.

I think Messi has some of the most defining ones last season, which imo is why I think it was perhaps his best ever. Sending Boateng on his arse was a jaw dropping moment that will be remembered from a terrific performance. Less epic, but I think that game against city where he didn't score yet made every other world class player on the pitch look mediocre in comparison added something to his tale as well. That hattrick against Madrid. maybe also that goal against madrid in the semi-final.

I am sure he has had many outrageous ones, but not that many at the big stage where I find myself thinking 'this would never ever have happened without messi'.

I don't really remember any performances from Ronaldo as standing out. He just had important moments. But not many moments that leaves you thinking 'only ronaldo could have done this for his team today'.
 
You look at Ronaldinho, you remember the chelsea games, what he did to Nesta and Maldini and perhaps most of all that game against madrid everyone seemed to watch.

Zidane, Euro2000 and WC06. That goal in the CL final.

Messi has not had quite as stunning a repertoire, I think for the same reason as Ronaldo - He's often been outrageous in the context of stunning team performances - whereas defining matches tend to be the ones where you rise above the level of of teammates and opponents to make the difference that could not be imagined otherwise.

I think Messi has some of the most defining ones last season, which imo is why I think it was perhaps his best ever. Sending Boateng on his arse was a jaw dropping moment that will be remembered from a terrific performance. Less epic, but I think that game against city where he didn't score yet made every other world class player on the pitch look mediocre in comparison added something to his tale as well. That hattrick against Madrid.

I am sure he has had many outrageous ones, but not that many at the big stage where I find myself thinking 'this would never ever have happened without messi'.

I don't really remember any performances from Ronaldo as standing out. He just had important moments.

How many games have you just meantioned for those two players? You literally named 2 performances each. Someone further up already mentioned Ronaldo's standout performances and you chose it ignore it. You named one moment for messi destroying boateng but what about ronaldo scoring that wonderfully inventive free kick to finish off that same bayen team?

They are really just soo consistent that we can't think of many defining moments because they are constantly happening.
 
I don't really remember any performances from Ronaldo as standing out. He just had important moments.

Fair point, I'd say.

You can obviously cite plenty of matches where his input (goals, almost exclusively) turned out to be decisive - but at the very highest level? When it mattered the most, at the most crucial time?

More of those for United than for Real, I'd argue.
 
I'd rate Ronaldo like a souped up version of a Gerd Muller. So consequently if anyone does a comprehensive list i'd put him maybe 5 places about Muller.
 
Good post. When we faced Madrid in 2013, I was scared about di Maria bursting into space with a dribble or a through ball from ozil. If the ball was not in a shooting position, I would prefer Ronaldo on it rather than the rest of the front line. The times i was scared of Ronaldo was when the ball was out wide and he was lurking in the area, basically, that's how he will hurt you. And of course, he did. His positioning and strength and leap and heading and finishing are all insane.
He still scored 2 out of the three goals Madrid scored though. Regardless of the 'fear' of people, if it wasn't for him wewuld have won that clash.

People here are absurdly biased against Ronaldo and come with the most absurd things to belittle him.
 
Yeah, Madrid have been so successful since he joined, haven't they.

I'd pick Messi, Maradona, Pele as the easy top 3.

Ronaldo for me is somewhere around Platini territory, probably somewhat ahead of him. Both ahead of Zidane.

I'd have fat Ronaldo ahead of all three. Cruyff ahead of fat Ronaldo. Best somewhere slightly behind them.

Heart wants to include Ronaldinho in here somewhere, but I don't think he did quite enough when the chips were down compared to the others.

All the arguments about goals and output in favour of CR7 in this thread ring hollow to me for one simple reason - I haven't seen a single mention of Gerd Muller on top 10 lists yet. And Christiano is much more akin to a player like Muller in style than he is to a player like fat Ronaldo or Platini. When it comes to players in general, their aura, wow-factor and influence on the game is taken for granted as a necessary reason for putting them on the list - But for CR7, and only CR7, goals alone does the trick.

Sorry, but no. Muller doesn't make my list, great as he was. And CR7, being a comparable goalscorer and somewhat better footballer, just about makes the top 10, somewhere around 7th or 8th.
L. Ronaldo had a relatively short peak and was very unsuccesful when it comes to trophies in club level. A single league title and no UCL in Europe for around a decade despite that he played for PSV, Barca, Inter, Madrid and Milano is really too low and an argument in itself why he shouldn't be in discussion for top 10. Ronaldinho IMO shouldn't be mentioned even in top 20. He was incredible and a joy to watch, but he had something like 2-3 good seasons.

Agree with the rest of the post though. Messi, Pele and Maradona in top 3 (Maradona slightly below them), with Cruyff and Di Stefano completing top 5. I would put Cristiano just behind them (together with Beckenbauer) and slightly ahead of Best, Platini and probably Zidane completing the top 10. Garrincha, Puskas, Eusebio, Charlton, L.Ronaldo, Muller, Van Basten, Baresi and a few others in top 20.
 
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Not entertainment per se. But between two players who both score loads, the one who can dribble past players for fun, pass the ball whichever way he likes it and generally puts defenders in a panic for all the things he does besides hunting chances, will be seen as quite a bit better than the one who spends most of his time waiting for the right ball to be played to him.

That's what sets Pele, fat Ronaldo and Messi apart from him.

I am caricaturing cronaldo a bit here as he is not exactly inzaghi. But take goals away from those 3 and add Maradona and you have the four players whose overall game is the most devastating we've seen. Cronaldos game is good, but only sporadically exceptional.
That's because there's no real need for him to play like that for Madrid.
 
Good post. When we faced Madrid in 2013, I was scared about di Maria bursting into space with a dribble or a through ball from ozil. If the ball was not in a shooting position, I would prefer Ronaldo on it rather than the rest of the front line. The times i was scared of Ronaldo was when the ball was out wide and he was lurking in the area, basically, that's how he will hurt you. And of course, he did. His positioning and strength and leap and heading and finishing are all insane.

He still scored 2 out of the three goals Madrid scored though. Regardless of the 'fear' of people, if it wasn't for him wewuld have won that clash.

People here are absurdly biased against Ronaldo and come with the most absurd things to belittle him.

But he isn't a player who can make something out of nothing, his vision is average, his passing is just safe. Which is why I was not scared of him in any position when he was on the ball outside the box.

If I'm supporting the team playing vs Barca, the moment Messi gets the ball I look up to check how many extra defenders are available to cover his dribbling, also check to see if anyone is marking the run on the left wing which he always finds, and finally if there are any other open players in the box. And how far from goal he is. You can call it bias, this is my gut feel when Messi has the ball, it's so different from when Ronaldo has it.
 
But he isn't a player who can make something out of nothing, his vision is average, his passing is just safe. Which is why I was not scared of him in any position when he was on the ball outside the box.

If I'm supporting the team playing vs Barca, the moment Messi gets the ball I look up to check how many extra defenders are available to cover his dribbling, also check to see if anyone is marking the run on the left wing which he always finds, and finally if there are any other open players in the box. And how far from goal he is. You can call it bias, this is my gut feel when Messi has the ball, it's so different from when Ronaldo has it.

Are you kidding me?



Its just funny Ronaldo is just soo well rounded people forget how many great goals he has scored.
 
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Are you kidding me?


Its just funny Ronaldo is just soo well rounded people forget how many great goals he has scored.


No, I am not kidding you. For the number of shots he takes, he simply isn't that efficient outside the box. I'm not the generally scared of a long range shot by most players.

This works out to ~4% btw, I really really don't expect a goal when he lines one up from range.
morris-feature-messi-31.png
 
No, I am not kidding you. For the number of shots he takes, he simply isn't that efficient outside the box. I'm not the generally scared of a long range shot by most players.

This works out to ~4% btw, I really really don't expect a goal when he lines one up from range.
morris-feature-messi-31.png

I don't really get your point. Any defender seeing Ronaldo line up a shot in real life is crapping themselves. He has shown over many years that he is deadly from distance.
 
Top 10 for me but I may come to think top 3. We're all going to think very differently of Messi and Ronaldo once they retire and Europe's top scorers go back to being players who post 35-40 goals a season. We won't see someone who gets over 50 comfortably most years for a very very long time. Just feel privileged to be witnessing the equivalent of a Cruyff and a Maradona, and proud that one of them played for our club.
 
Are you serious dude? A guy that won a world cup being top scorer and has 2 ballon d'ors, in his prime was unstoppable..

Yes I'm very serious, Luiz' Ronaldo's prime lasted about 2 years, do you also have Ronaldinho in your top 10? (Albeit a much more spectacular fall from the top)
Top 20?

He'd be in my top 10. You weren't old enough to see Luiz Ronaldo, an infinitely more gifted footballer, he could do things to top class defenders Cristiano could only dream of.
The first game I watched was during the WC in 86, I've basically seen the entirety of Luiz Ronaldo's career. :rolleyes:

Ronaldinho could do things Messi could only dream of, so what if they can't do it for more than a while?
 
I don't really get your point. Any defender seeing Ronaldo line up a shot in real life is crapping themselves. He has shown over many years that he is deadly from distance.

But I am not a defender and I won't get hurt no matter how hard he shoots. If he scores 4 goals for every 100 shots he takes, as a supporter of the team against Madrid, my heart won't be in my mouth seeing him shoot from distance. That's all.
And it's because apart from shooting he can't really hurt a team when he is on the ball, he doesn't have the vision. If Messi is on the ball at a similar distance, he could put a teammate through, dribble into the box, or, less commonly, shoot. So if I see a good run or a tiny gap or no covering defenders when Messi has the ball, I do "crap myself".

Fwiw, I put Ronaldo top 10, I think his consistent goalscoring is absolutely freakish.
 
Top 10 in my book now. When it's all said and done, I expect him to be in the conversation for all time top 3 along with Messi and Pele.
 
Wherever it is, it's below Luiz Ronaldo and Messi.
The Messi debate can stay in that other thread, but Luiz Ronaldo? :lol:

It really is laughable to even try to claim that he'd rank higher in an all time list than Cristiano Ronaldo. What has the guy won for his clubs? 1 major league title and zero Champions League?
 
But I am not a defender and I won't get hurt no matter how hard he shoots. If he scores 4 goals for every 100 shots he takes, as a supporter of the team against Madrid, my heart won't be in my mouth seeing him shoot from distance. That's all.
And it's because apart from shooting he can't really hurt a team when he is on the ball, he doesn't have the vision. If Messi is on the ball at a similar distance, he could put a teammate through, dribble into the box, or, less commonly, shoot. So if I see a good run or a tiny gap or no covering defenders when Messi has the ball, I do "crap myself".

Fwiw, I put Ronaldo top 10, I think his consistent goalscoring is absolutely freakish.

If I was to show most balls lost from dribbles messi would be higher than ronaldo purely from the fact he dribbles more. Its simple math. Ronaldo as a player has soo much in his arsenal that it'd be weird for any player to say they are not scared of him. All people talk about is Ronaldo's goal scoring but he has 85 assists since moving to Real which is very high. He has the 5th most assists in the last 5 years out of the top 5 leagues in europe. Thats ridiculous considering most don't see him as a creative force.
http://dailyentertainment.com/top-10-assist-kings-2010-2015-in-the-top-5-european-leagues/8/