Where would you rank this Man City side now?

Rozay

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Domestically, easily the best we have seen. Winning 32 out of 38 games two years in a row is remarkable. They didn’t scrape through as many this year as they did last either.
 

Tomuś

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Impossible with this squad. We don't have the quality to do both in the same year. The best way to do it is what we are doing now. Win the League twice in a row, than go all out for the CL next year and miss the League. Than back to League and so on. People over estimate the current City squad, making it like some sort of juggernaut all time great side filled with iconic players..... If we had made it into the CL Semi and had to play Ajax for two games, we might have dropped points and lost the PL. Look at the league/CL double of the last 10-15 years. We are looking at teams that include Ronaldinho/Eto, Messi/Iniesta/Xavi, Ronaldo/Tevez/Rooney/Rio/Vidic, Neuer/Ribery/Robben/Basten and so on. There is no way our squad is on par with those mentioned.
You what? Half your squad players would start for United. You often have hundreds of millions on the bench. A City fan complaining about their squad depth...
 

jontheblue

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Even the 100-point season is not that big a deal, as 90% of their games are against teams that have far less funding, who they should beat.
Is there a year when United, Chelsea or even Blackburn won the league that your statement above wouldn't hold true ? Obviously not when Leicester won and to an extent, when Arsenal have won

I'm not saying we could have done it without the money (we obviously couldn't) and I'm not saying the various financial gaps aren't an issue (depending what team one supports, one probably looks at different gaps e.g. a Brighton fan might look at the gap from them to the top 6, an Arsenal fan at the gap to City, etc) but regardless of how they get their money, the winners of the league normally have far more money to spend than the majority of the rest of the league

I think the 98 points this season is more impressive than last year's 100 points, because we won the league early last year so the only pressure was what we put on ourselves to break a record. This time round, actually having to win all those games to just about keep a hair breadth ahead of liverpool and the pressure to not have a single slip up is what for me makes the total a greater achievement, even more so in the context of 198 points over 2 seasons because it's a big enough deal to get that total in the first place as so much has to go right - to do it 2 years on the run makes it that much more impressive

Having said all that, unless we do it again next year, I don't think this side can be considered the greatest when we haven't won the CL or even got to a CL final. I also think if we are talking 'PL achievement', it's hard to overlook Leicester
 

Kanu

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Most points, yes. Football has changed, we see more and more teams dominating leagues now. In terms of greatest ever PL side? No chance. They haven't done shite in Europe.

1. United 99
2. United 08
3. Chelsea/City
4. Invincibles
 

RochaRoja

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I hate to say but they're the best of all time. Drop them in any PL season and they win the league. Head to head they're tactically way ahead of the United/Chelsea/Arsenal teams you're comparing them to. They'd simply over run the possession against any of those teams.

feck knows how they've managed to fluff the CL twice because they've been the best in Europe for 2 seasons now.
This is all correct.

Somehow they seem to reserve their worst defensive performances of the season for Champions League quarter finals.
 

Ayush_reddevil

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Most defending champions fall away a bit but to win the title again with 98 points and winning 14 out of 14 at the end is an absolutely incredible achievement. Credit to Pep and the team for this crazy season
 

bosnian_red

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Until somebody wins the CL while winning the league, they will always be behind 1999 United and 2008 United. It really is that simple. Both sides won the league 3 times in a row. This Man City side is ahead of Chelsea for sure and IMO ahead of Arsenal invincibles, but it simply can't go ahead of United's 2 great teams.
 

12OunceEpilogue

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The lack of European success is a big miss, though they're dominating the league unlike any of the other all-time great PL sides. A few more years of this and a CL win or two would put them in pole position in my view.
 

WensleyMU

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Not even close to being the best ever. Are you people mad?

There are United sides who were a few goals and 1 point away from winning 7 PL titles in a row!

Including 3 CL finals, 1 CL win, multiple cups etc.

Let's collectively pull our heads from City's arse eh?
 

shiranaiotoko

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They're the best, but also spent the most, so it's not that impressive, because they basically bought it, not built it for years (fortunately CL is something that can't be bought). Alas quick reaction if some transfers failed is impressive. We at United are giving too much time to average players, who bring us down, but financially are probably top3 in the world. Only Real and City can spend more than us, yet Madrid is much better city to live, so most players want to play there, not to mention who would like to play for us after SAF? To be honest if I was a footballer, very good one, I wouldn't want to play for Manchester United right now. It's a mess without a sign of improvement. I can even play in Championship, but with lads who care and fight to the last minute. For current United I have no love at all, they are all disgusting. I envy City that they let Guardiola buy anyone he wants and sell anyone he wants to. Something that Mourinho couldn't fully do here, but maybe it's better that way, since his philosophy of football, even if brought us trophies is not welcomed here at United.
 

ExecutionerWasp001

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The league is at it's lowest standard for many years. The gap between 6th & 20th was 50 pts. The gap between 6th & 1st was 32 pts. Teams from 3rd to sixth have a win rate hovering around the 50% mark. There are many more teams outside the top 6 than in recent years that are extremely limited. We now have a worrying trend where these teams refuse to leave their own half in both their home & away fixtures to City.

It has been a perfect storm for City as they have continued investing heavily into a steadily declining league. I would not be surprised to see them break 100 pts next season as i don't see massive improvements coming from any of the other top 6 teams.

Where a team is ranked very much depends on the quality of opposition faced. Amassing huge points totals in an uncompetitive league should not put you into the running to be the best PL team.
 
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RochaRoja

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To sum up how good this City team is, look at the top 6 mini-league over the past two seasons.

City are top with 49 points from 20 games. 16 wins, 1 draw and 3 losses. Goal difference of +31.

Second best is Liverpool on 29 points. 7 wins, 8 draws, 5 losses. Goal difference of +4.
 

Zehner

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Quality-wise the best team ever, achievememt-wise they lack the CL. I think that's a little bit superficial since the CL requires luck that City simply didn't have. But all four European finalists this year play in the EPL and City proved that they are better than all of them in the league campaign. Every fan of these four teams will openly admit that City is superior and that tells something.
 

Skills

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The league is at it's lowest standard for many years. The gap between 6th & 20th was 50 pts. The gap between 6th & 1st was 32 pts. Teams from 3rd to sixth have a win rate hovering around the 50% mark. There are many more teams outside the top 6 than in recent years that are extremely limited. We now have a worrying trend where these teams refuse to leave their own half in both their home & away fixtures to City.

It has been a perfect storm for City as they have continued investing heavily into a steadily declining league. I would not be surprised to see them break 100 pts next season as i don't see massive improvements coming from any of the other top 6 teams.

Where a team is ranked very much depends on the quality of opposition faced. Amassing huge points totals in an uncompetitive league should not put you into the running to be the best PL team.
Are you kidding? We have 2 champions League finalists, 2 Europa League finalists and Liverpool also made the CL final last season. At the top (where it matters the most) the league as strong as ever.

The Huddersfields and Derbys (07/08) don't account for how strong a league is.
 

iHicksy

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The only saving grace is that Pep will hopefully struggle to motivate them to constant success and go to another league at which point they will fall apart.
 

starman

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The teams outside of the top 2 are at its worst they have been for a long time. This is where the extra points are coming. Yes, there might be an all Euro finals, but Real, Barca, Munich, Milan, United etc are not the forces they once were

I still think Uniteds 99/08 & Chelsea 05 are above overall.
Back in late 90s Arsenal & Leeds team were better then, Spurs, United & Chelsea & Arsenal of today.

Chelsea 05 competed with United & Arsenal, that are better then the United, Arsenal or Chelsea of today. Liverpool 05 is basically current day Spurs.

Also will point out, todays mid table, lower level teams are encouraged alot more to play more attractive football leaving themselves open to be picked apart by the top clubs. Go back 15 years ago there was no shame in parking the bus and strictly playing a long ball game. Look at big Sam, he can only last a few months before fans start calling for his head in today's game. His Bolton side would have gave alot of teams fits today if you could stomach the football. The equivalent is Burnley but Big Sam's Bolton is 5x the team Burnley is today
 
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Leroy The Red

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I hate to say but they're the best of all time. Drop them in any PL season and they win the league. Head to head they're tactically way ahead of the United/Chelsea/Arsenal teams you're comparing them to. They'd simply over run the possession against any of those teams.

feck knows how they've managed to fluff the CL twice because they've been the best in Europe for 2 seasons now.
Dunno about that. I mean they are up there but how are they tactically way ahead of those teams? Because they dominate possession by passing the ball 400 times between their CB’s?
For me defensively they’re still not up there with the top sides of yesteryear, that is reflected by the volume of goals they ship in the latter stages of the CL. If this City side played against a United with Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez or an Arsenal with Henry, Bergkamp , Pires they would suffer. Their style of play whilst giving them the ability to score an avalanche of goals, against the best attacks would leave them floundering.
Also goes without saying but this city team would not score this many goals against defenders of yesteryear like Terry, Carvalho, Campbell, Ferdinand and Vidic? The absolute state of modern day Pl defences. The obsession with passing out the back and looking slick has led to forgetting how to actually defend. There’s about two proper defenders in this league at the moment. Back in the day even teams like Villa and Everton had good defenders.

What this city team does have more than teams of the past is the work rate and movement. They are quite relentless in that aspect. It’s like 11 2007 Wayne Rooneys.
 

JustAGuest

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Up there with some of the best teams of all time. A Champions League win would really cement that.
 

Gio

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In a theoretical Premier League season up against the other great sides, then yes this City would be favourites. Over the course of 38 games it would be difficult to compete with their squad resources and style of play. Looking beyond England though, that same relentless overloading style makes them vulnerable in transitions in knockout ties which is where they fall short compared to the other Champions League winners.
 

RedTillI'mDead

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I hate to say but they're the best of all time. Drop them in any PL season and they win the league. Head to head they're tactically way ahead of the United/Chelsea/Arsenal teams you're comparing them to. They'd simply over run the possession against any of those teams.

feck knows how they've managed to fluff the CL twice because they've been the best in Europe for 2 seasons now.
It's way to simple to compare it to head to head games and even then it's near impossible.

The 99 squad had incredibly fluid passing between Scholes/ Cole/ Yorke. Add in the dynamism of Giggs and the crossing of Neville/ Beckham and free kicks of Beckham and City would be struggling to stop us from scoring. It would then come down to a shoot out and we had Schmeichel arguably the best shot stopper of all time and Stam as a tank in front of him. Irwin and Neville were also incredible wing backs and then sitting in front of the defence you have Keane who would break most of the City players. Injuries would be rife.

City might control the tempo, but as soon as they lost possession they would be in trouble. The variety in our attack then was as good as it gets....
Crossing...yes pin point, the only type of crossing that would beat City.
Through balls...yes Scholes one of the best in business
Corners/ free kicks...yes best in class
Rapid one-twos... literally never been a duo as in tune as Yorke and Cole
Energetic sub of a game winner....Ole is probably the best ever

The weaknesses were Stams partner with Berg, Johnsen and Brown (can't remember if he was more of wing back cover at this stage). They were still reliable, probably on par or better than Smalling. We also could over commit in attack. As you say we might also lose some of the midfield battle in terms of numbers.

The above all said....I think you are right. City can dominate in the league due to owning control and therefore have less games being exposed. This control is less effective in Europe where lethal counters can do more damage quicker. The typical case of it's not how much of the ball you have, but what you do with it.

At the elite level it becomes the flip of a coin. Controlling football will win out if the counter attack team don't take their chances. If the counter attack team take their chances they will probably win. This is because whilst controlling games, you are naturally not as direct in getting opportunities. City have actually gone a long way down this path with quick technical players meaning they can transition quickly and be similar to a counter attacking team, but they don't commit as many players.

One thing I might be underestimating is stamina. And to that extent it would be interesting to see how distance covered has changed. You'd have to work hard to beat this City team otherwise Keane and Scholes for all their energy might end up chasing shadows and getting tired out.
 

Alex99

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1. United 98/99
2. United 07/08
3. City 18/19
4. City 17/18
5. Chelsea 04/05
6. Arsenal 03/04
 

wub1234

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Is there a year when United, Chelsea or even Blackburn won the league that your statement above wouldn't hold true ? Obviously not when Leicester won and to an extent, when Arsenal have won.
As I said, I think the quality of football played by City is the best ever in the PL, without doubt.

However, it's very hard to directly compare this team, and particularly its points total, to the PL as an entirety, as it used to be considerably more competitive. This is a major problem across European football, it's a much bigger problem in France, Italy, Germany, and to a lesser extent Spain.

There is a graphic here on the BBC website, which I just saw before your post:



Each of the highest totals from the top two teams have come in the last three seasons, and the fourth highest wasn't that far back either. That's no coincidence, it's because it's getting easier and easier for the top teams to beat the lesser teams.

Of course, this is partly because City are an exceptional team, but it wouldn't surprise me if other teams go close to 100 points in years to come. It's a good achievement, but it's not something that I see as massive. In the last three seasons alone, Chelsea achieved 93, Liverpool 97, and City 98 and 100. I'm sure you're going to see more teams up there in that ballpark.
 

Havak

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I think retaining the title is a huge deal and for me it puts United's squads that won three on the spin, Chelsea in José's first spell and this City side as the best four squads we've seen in the Premier League era, followed by Arsenal's invincible season due to how difficult it is to not lose a game for so long. If City win the FA Cup I think they are comfortably better than that Chelsea squad, but even right now I'd still probably have them just ahead considering how many points they earned in these two seasons. However, despite the obvious United bias, I think winning it three times in a row along with a European Cup and additional European Cup Finals puts it ahead of City. However, if we are talking purely on Premier League/domestic success then this City squad now is far and away the best. I think it has to be judged on every competition though.

1. United 06 to 09
2. United 98 to 01
3. City 17 to 19
4. Chelsea 04 to 06
5. Arsenal 03/04 Season

Arsenal would probably pip at least Chelsea if they went on to retain the title with that squad. That squad should have been more successful over the period from 03/04 to 05/06 as they had a European Cup final and FA Cup final defeat and only won one League Title and one FA Cup. I might be being a bit harsh since it was an unbelievable achievement to do what they did, but I think retaining the title is the biggest factor in judging a squad over a number of seasons. If we were looking at singular seasons then the argument would be completely different obviously.
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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We weren’t all that great in the treble year in the league, we had unmatched spirit and winning mentality, but the league was tight, and compared to what the PL is today, it was million miles weaker, some of those teams would be league 1 level today.

That City side would’ve possibly won 10 PL league titles on the trot in the nineties.

However, as I’ve said we’ve had SAF and unmatched team spirit, if what he needed to win the league was 99 points then he would’ve found a way to achieve that.

Very difficult to compare teams from different generations, back then the squads were tiny, the 99 treble team was literally the same 16 players playing all those games, twice a week.
 
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Josep Dowling

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Impossible with this squad. We don't have the quality to do both in the same year. The best way to do it is what we are doing now. Win the League twice in a row, than go all out for the CL next year and miss the League. Than back to League and so on. People over estimate the current City squad, making it like some sort of juggernaut all time great side filled with iconic players..... If we had made it into the CL Semi and had to play Ajax for two games, we might have dropped points and lost the PL. Look at the league/CL double of the last 10-15 years. We are looking at teams that include Ronaldinho/Eto, Messi/Iniesta/Xavi, Ronaldo/Tevez/Rooney/Rio/Vidic, Neuer/Ribery/Robben/Basten and so on. There is no way our squad is on par with those mentioned.
I wouldn’t say it’s impossible. The issue Guardiola has is he only has one game plan. It’s a very good game plan but sometimes it needs to change depending on the opposition. That has caught him out the last few years.
 

Mb194dc

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Best league side in England ever. They got 98 points this season, with De Bruyne their best player last year, only playing 978 minutes and Fernandinho and Mendy also injured a fair bit. They also had a couple of poor results, missed pen against Liverpool, and got done by the officials against Wolves early in the season.

Target to get above City next year is surely 100 points+, which is totally unprecedented.

City will never do anything in the CL?, whole club mentality is against European success. I think they'll be like PSG and always go out, one way or the other.
 

RedDevil@84

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Better than last years ranking. It will be interesting if Pep can keep this going. As He had said previously, he finds it difficult to keep motivating a team to go for it again and again
 

Yorkeontop

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This is why I wanted Liverpool to win the league over City - watching match of the day last night they said they thought this was the best side of the Premier League era. If they hadn't won it back to back then they wouldn't be so sure.
I'd take this over the potential reaction to Liverpool's win.

For me, our treble side still triumphs - but I'm biased.
 

Champagne Football

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When you consider the levels of financial doping involved, you could argue they should not have lost to Crystal Palace, Newcastle, Leicester, Liverpool, Spurs, Lyon this season
 

ExecutionerWasp001

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Are you kidding? We have 2 champions League finalists, 2 Europa League finalists and Liverpool also made the CL final last season. At the top (where it matters the most) the league as strong as ever.

The Huddersfields and Derbys (07/08) don't account for how strong a league is.
The top of the league isn't strong though. We were 2nd 19 pts behind City last season. This season Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea & Utd have all been poor. Liverpool have only been competitive due to having the luckiest ever PL season.

Having 4 finalists in Europe is more down to the super powers fading rather than the PL being so strong.

The question is though is if City are the best PL team. It's arbitrary to say that City are a better PL team than Utd as Utd never reached 100 pts. We never reached 100 pts due to the league being much more competitive than it is now.
 
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SER19

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The best side of the financially doped era. Comparisons to sides before this are irrelevant really.
 

Spiersey

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They are comfortably the best Premier League side ever. They would win any league season ever. Unsure how they’d stack up in a one off game against Jose’s Chelsea’s or United 08 but over a season they would 100% win the league.
 

Skills

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The top of the league isn't strong though. We were 2nd 19 pts behind City last season. This season Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea & Utd have all been poor. Liverpool have only been competitive due to having the luckiest ever PL season.

Having 4 finalists in Europe is more down to the super powers fading rather than the PL being so strong.

The question is though is if City are the best PL team. It's arbitrary to say that City are a better PL team than Utd as Utd never reached 100 pts. We never reached 100 pts due to the league being much more competitive than it is now.
So is that also true for the English sides in the late 00s? Were lucky enough to miss Barcelona and the great Italian sides of the early 00s?

The reason we didn't ever match their points total is that we were just never deep enough. At their best when they have everyone available they have to leave 4 of De Bruyne, B.Silva, D.Silva, Sterling, Sane, Mahrez, Jesus, Aguero, Gundogan out of their front line/midfield. That's a stupidly deep squad, so much so that their player of the year from last season was missing and it didn't make a difference.
 

Bilbo

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Their football is better, but they can't be compared with our 99 side yet because they didn't win the treble.