Which would you prefer: ETH plays a high-pressing, possession game or prioritises results above all else?

[Bastian]

I actually think the former is the only way for him to get the latter, but people may differ on that. As I see it, to actually play this progressive football which he was definitely hired to do he'll have to sacrifice quite a few players and he'll likely have to use up the rest of his credit earned last season to get 1-2 players in in January, and whatever else he can get on loan.

I've been aboard the ETH train since before his appointment but his lack of courage is so off-putting. I can understand becoming hypnotised by the notion of being the one to awake this sleeping giant (poisoned chalice) that he starts living week to week, results only.

One major issue is obviously the schedule and the lack of time to train and coach the team in a progressive manner as opposed to just preparation for the next match. I think last season's schedule cannot be over-stated, but he certainly could have made some public demonstration before doing another commercial pre-season (which is what prompted Louis to call us a commercial club and also set Jose off).

Would be an interesting question for a poll: Go all in with his philosophy or adapt according to the best players available?

I'd like to see him have some bravery and go with

---------------------------------------Onana
AWB (when fit)-----Varane--------Evans (Martinez in asap)-----Reguilon
---------------------------------Mainoo-----Mejbri
Antony------------------------------Mount--------------------------------Garnacho
-----------------------------------------Hojland

Get in another midfielder in January if at all possible and definitely a centre back capable of playing out from the back and holding a high line. If he can get a striker on loan who is not closer to 40 and playing in a retirement league (Ighalo) that would be desirable.

 

[FortunaUtd]

It is a false dichotomy, as your first sentence alludes to.
Because for teams that expect to be elite, a possession and high pressing based game is clearly the most promising road to success and results.
Even Klopp's Liverpool had their most succesful, and only PL winning, season when they were able to control possession for most of the games.
The focus on transition football has contributed (on top of the financial gap obviously) to why noone has been challenging Bayern for years and years in Bundesliga, and it is no coincidence there is now a somewhat seriously looking contender with Alonso's Leverkusen who play dominant, possession-based, high pressing.

And also, quite clearly the current approach is not reaping results whether it prioritizes them or not.

 

[Roboc7]

We desperately need a manager who does the former or something along those lines, it’s what needed to happen from day one he was appointed. We should be building towards something and adopt a new approach in terms or coaching and our recruitment, whole club should be aligned behind a modern ethos and identity. Even if it doesn’t quite work if we at least made some positive steps it is something to build on.

Instead we are stuck in this cycle of zombie football and keep going back to players like Mctominay who we know aren’t good enough. Until the whole club has the balls, competence and desire to change we will be stuck in this recurring cycle of shit.

 

[Cloud7]

If we can do the former, the latter will follow.

The issue is we are currently barely scraping by on the latter without doing any of the former.

 

[Bastian]

It is a false dichotomy, as your first sentence alludes to.
Because for teams that expect to be elite, a possession and high pressing based game is clearly the most promising road to success and results.
Even Klopp's Liverpool had their most succesful, and only PL winning, season when they were able to control possession for most of the games.
The focus on transition football has contributed (on top of the financial gap obviously) to why noone has been challenging Bayern for years and years in Bundesliga, and it is no coincidence there is now a somewhat seriously looking contender with Alonso's Leverkusen who play dominant, possession-based, high pressing.

And also, quite clearly the current approach is not reaping results whether it prioritizes them or not.

I think he could maybe start edging out wins a la Ole with an underdog approach (and Jose too) if he solidifies our defensive organisation and finds mobility in midfield, we obviously still need more goals. I guess if this were polled it would be fairly one sided, but another way to ask the question if we assume relative (and I do mean very relative) success can be achieved this season by playing to the main players' strengths (low block counter attack), would people be happier to write this season completely off in terms of results if it means we'll approach every single game with the same style and philosophy?

Could ask this way: Would you prefer finishing 3rd-5th and win a cup playing low block counter attack or finishing 12th using the whole season to install a tactical blueprint and discarding big name players as and when they cannot execute it?

If you think about next season - even if ETH were to be sacked this season - we'd have gone through the growing pains of becoming an overall modern side that has standards we at the moment do not reach.

 

[FrankDrebin]

We want a manager to come in and shake up the whole philosophy of the teams playing style but if you don't get top 4 you're sacked.

 

[Cassidy]

We want a manager to come in and shake up the whole philosophy of the teams playing style but if you don't get top 4 you're sacked.

Make it make sense

 

[Desert Eagle]

If we can do the former, the latter will follow.

The issue is we are currently barely scraping by on the latter without doing any of the former.

Exactly this

 

[Bastian]

We want a manager to come in and shake up the whole philosophy of the teams playing style but if you don't get top 4 you're sacked.

That's our problem in a nutshell.

 

[mu4c_20le]

If we wanted the latter we should've just kept Mou and sack Woody instead.

 

[FrenchRed]

Really don’t care, we need to get back to winning consistently or we’ll be an afterthought, if we aren’t already.

 

[noodlehair]

I assumed we brought him in based on what he implemented at Ajax so that is what I wanted/want to see. e.

The problem is I don't think this season's approach of using a system and style of play he never used successfully at Ajax, in order to not get results or performances, really counts as either.

 

[Redstain]

It is a false dichotomy, as your first sentence alludes to.
Because for teams that expect to be elite, a possession and high pressing based game is clearly the most promising road to success and results.

Exactly the rest of your post highlights very good contrasts. The modern game has been compressed down to tactical nuances that gives the team the edge over a another. This is why a manager like Mourinho is a relic nowadays because the game has transitioned into having a philosophy that shapes the teams identity.

The problem with Eth is that he neither comes across as being able to effectively implement a set standard for how he intends this team to play. So even in the example of Jim Ratcliffe coming in and restricting the managers focus to first team responsibility, there's argument to say that Erik isn't even good enough at doing those things to begin with in the first place.

Might not be intentional of the OP but it feels like this thread to some degree is an attempt to exonerate the manager of his purpose and propose an alternative that's only going to come into fruition if he's doing his original purpose effectively.

So the correct way to look at this threads question, is not to find an answer as the answer is what's forming the question. United are not getting results because the manager has failed to successfully implement a high pressing and possession orientated game.

 

[Plant0x84]

He’s GOT to play HIS football. He has to be true to himself and demand his standards or he is going down either way.
At least if he imposes his way he is going down fighting. Too many managers have given up on the face of our rubbish squad, he needs to be brave and any player who isn’t with him should be cast aside.
It’s time the club stopped taking the easy way out and grasps the nettle. We need to be radical and ruthless in the pursuit of success.

 

[Bastian]

Exactly the rest of your post highlights very good contrasts. The modern game has been compressed down to tactical nuances that gives the team the edge over a another. This is why a manager like Mourinho is a relic nowadays because the game has transitioned into having a philosophy that shapes the teams identity.

The problem with Eth is that he neither comes across as being able to effectively implement a set standard for how he intends this team to play. So even in the example of Jim Ratcliffe coming in and restricting the managers focus to first team responsibility, there's argument to say that Erik isn't even good enough at doing those things to begin with in the first place.

Might not be intentional of the OP but it feels like this thread to some degree is an attempt to exonerate the manager of his purpose and propose an alternative that's only going to come into fruition if he's doing his original purpose effectively.

So the correct way to look at this threads question, is not to find an answer as the answer is what's forming the question. United are not getting results because the manager has failed to successfully implement a high pressing and possession orientated game.

I've been very disappointed with how we've set up and played this season and I'm starting to think he doesn't have any courage to follow through with his vision. So no. But we are suffering for a multitude of factors, the ones on the manager are his unwillingness to be brave and his likely fear of the dressing room not wanting to risk upsetting more players who are on mega contracts.

I've also been very disappointed with how he's handled the media this season. I hoped he had some fire in him and would be quick and short with the media when they first smelled blood but then and now he still goes into lengthy elaborations in which he makes excuses for the players and then says some outlandish things like Ole would (who was heavily criticised for it). His authority is evaporating and is crying out for him to show courage, both in how he plays and how he manages the team.

 

[OleGunnar20]

Definitely the Former. If done right it's the only way fo sustained success in modern football and perhaps more importantly - would be actually pleasurable to watch.

Feck me I'm just sick of watching shite football year after year.

 

[hn4united]

ETH was never the guy that would be brave enough to shake things up at United. He worked at Ajax within a structure that supported his work. That structure wasn’t created by him alone.

The structure here will never be that of Ajax and ETH will never be that manager that could get our team to win at all cost. You need a club that is willing to implement a strategy for the former or a manager like Mourinho for the latter.

We are not here nor there…

 

[Josep Dowling]

Star players don’t fit his suited style of football. It’s why we look so bad. The club needs to make a decision on the likes of Bruno for example.

 

[wolvored]

If we can do the former, the latter will follow.

The issue is we are currently barely scraping by on the latter without doing any of the former.

Was going to say the same. If TH cant get us playing like Ajax, then he needs sacking. If the players can only play counter attack, we might as well go for the best counter attacking manager we can. The idea of hiring TH was surely to play similar to Ajax style. What we are playing isnt getting results anyroad.

 

[Gasolin]

Does it have to be mutually exclusive? I don't understand what's happening for us.

 

[RedBanker]

We don't have distinct style of play after one whole season and millions spent. We don't win much either since February 2023.
Yeah so I will take option C. Unsubscribe.

 

[cpresc]

I don’t see a style of play for more than 20 minutes anyway.

we just fall apart and become a team of individuals

 

[foolsgold]

We want a manager to come in and shake up the whole philosophy of the teams playing style but if you don't get top 4 you're sacked.

Last season was the time to do it, he would have survived a 6th place finish in his first season if he'd shook up the footballing culture and we could all see it.

It's probably too late this season, tbh I think he's a dead man walking at this point.

 

[pacifictheme]

Either at this point because currently we aren't doing any of it

 

[Teja]

It can't be that hard right? A newly promoted team like Burnley can do it.

Sure against an elite side like City who can handle no matter what pressing mechanism you throw at them it's fine but you should just be able to deal with a garden variety PL high press, build out and create chances at a good clip given the amount of talent we have.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I think we all just want to see the style come in now. Don't mind a pragmatic approach in tough away games but we have to be able to control games much much better now.

 

[VP89]

Anyone who says they just want the style and feck the results are a bunch of liars. They will crawl out again and say they just want 3 points this is terrible blah blah

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Some of our players just aren't suited to a high pressing possession game. That being said I'd much prefer it to this. We're not going to dominate possession with McTominay. We're not going to play a high pressing game with Rashford (he can't be arsed) and Bruno (not disciplined enough). We'd also need some of the injured players back before we can even begin to try a different style though.

I'd like to see this:

Onana
Dalot - Varane - Martinez - Shaw
Amrabat - Casemiro
Antony - Mount - Garnacho
Hojlund

Would like to see some chances given to the likes of Mainoo, Hannibal and Amad as well. If they do well enough they can displace Amrabat/Casemiro, Mount and Antony as so far they haven't been great.

I will say I quite liked it when Hannibal played as a 10. He gave us more balance than Bruno. Yet he's also still quite rash and prone to pick up unnecessary cards. Also I know a lot of people didn't like it when we played Bruno on the wing but in my opinion for a more possession based style it wouldn't be the worst thing.

 

[Polar]

It’s not about high pressing/possession vs low block counter attack or more direct style. Real Madrid, Liverpool, Arsenal and BM are examples things isn't black or white. They combine and emphasis more aspects than possession solely. City and Barcelona is on the extreme side of the scale, but only City experience success.

I agree we have to become more comfortable with the ball and developing our possession play, but we have to find our own way of play and create or own identity. Maybe we also can try to challenge todays paradigm or perception that clubs have to play like City to win PL or CL. I don’t think United will become an European giant again if we try to copy Pep and Arteta.

 

[Polar]

….. at the same time it isn’t about result only either. We won against Brentford, Sheffield U and FCK, but easily could have lost all of them. If we did it would’ve been over for ETH. That’s also why I think it’s time to replace ETH.

 

[gaffs]

Well, we are doing neither at the moment.

 

[a_devil_inside]

Scraping wins is just papering over the cracks, still playing poor football with no game plan or tactics. Sooner or later it’ll end up losing all the time again.

 

[Rood]

Not many had an issue with the playing style last season and the results were good but most expected some kind of evolution in style this season.

I believe Ten Hag did then try to change to a more progressive system this summer but ridiculous injuries and late signings scuppered these plans.
He's now been forced to revert in an attempt to bring back some results and confidence.

We have been here before too - definitely under LvG and even Ole to some extent.

In the end, he has to prioritise the results because he'll get sacked if not anyway

 

[The Hilton]

Not many had an issue with the playing style last season and the results were good but most expected some kind of evolution in style this season.

I believe Ten Hag did then try to change to a more progressive system this summer but ridiculous injuries and late signings scuppered these plans.
He's now been forced to revert in an attempt to bring back some results and confidence.

We have been here before too - definitely under LvG and even Ole to some extent.

The thing is, he hasn't reverted to last season's approach. He's definitely taken a step back from the approach we had in the first couple of games of this season, but that's enforced due to injuries. However we're still one of the best teams in the league at generating mid and high turnovers, and we're trying to be far more proactive and dominant than last season. Our main issue is that we're not taking advantage of the dangerous situations we're creating with these turnovers, and we're struggling to recover when teams break through the press.

 

[Rood]

The thing is, he hasn't reverted to last season's approach. He's definitely taken a step back from the approach we had in the first couple of games of this season, but that's enforced due to injuries. However we're still one of the best teams in the league at generating mid and high turnovers, and we're trying to be far more proactive and dominant than last season. Our main issue is that we're not taking advantage of the dangerous situations we're creating with these turnovers, and we're struggling to recover when teams break through the press.

Yes all that is true and in the end it's not last season's system nor where he wants to be, it's a halfway house

I think he should go back to basics and what worked last season, he needs to be close to a fully fit squad (Shaw & Martinez absolutely vital) before trying to evolve

 

[LInkash]

Scoring some goals would be nice.

 

[Giggsy13]

I’d like to see ten Hag drop Rashford, Bruno and McT and start Hannibal, Mainoo and Garnacho.

 

[AndyMUFC]

I mean he's obviously got to find a balance, because if results got that bad he'd end up getting sacked regardless.

I thought that's what we were doing last season though, because while we definitely weren't playing amazing football every week, we were generally dominating the games we should be doing a lot better than previously. It's the likes of Sheffield United and Burnley that are dominating the ball against us this season.

The thing that I hope got lost in translation was that by saying we'll never play like Ajax he doesn't mean we're never going to play front foot football though, because we're not going to get anywhere playing like we have so far this season.

 

[The Hilton]

Yes all that is true and in the end it's not last season's system nor where he wants to be, it's a halfway house

I think he should go back to basics and what worked last season, he needs to be close to a fully fit squad (Shaw & Martinez absolutely vital) before trying to evolve

I disagree, we can't keep reverting to type, we won't ever evolve unless we stick with the new system through the rough as well as the smooth. He's already compromised due to the defence being threadbare, I'd rather we stick with it in spite of results as that'll help us out a lot more in the long term.

 

[Rood]

I disagree, we can't keep reverting to type, we won't ever evolve unless we stick with the new system through the rough as well as the smooth. He's already compromised due to the defence being threadbare, I'd rather we stick with it in spite of results as that'll help us out a lot more in the long term.

Im not even against that but the signs are that this would lead to more losses and ETH losing his job and the whole cycle starts again