Who are the best ball playing goalkeepers that are attainable?

[jesperjaap]

Some extra build up quality at the expense of game saving saves is not acceptable for me. If we can find a keeper as good as DDG and much better on the ball, then I'm all for it. But a bit more quality on the ball at the expense of saves, no thank you.

I completely agree. I know the game has moved on, but the obession with ball playing goalkeepers personally from seeing some of the names mentioned, seems very much at the expense of the ability to keep the ball out of the net.

Barely seen some of the foreign names mentioned, but the ones already in our league for me are really not ready to be the number one keeper with the pressure that brings here.

Supported the club 40years and in all that time we have only had three top keepers who have been able to consistently handle that pressure and DeGea is one of them. He had a really poor couple of seasons but he has been here over a decade and half of those seasons has arguably been our best player, deserves far more respect than he gets on here.

I think of the likes of Leighton, Turner, Bosnich, Barthez, Foster, Howard and Henderson. Tjhers some very talented keepers amongst those and not one of them was able to handle the pressure of being the number one here, Foster pretty much has admitted it several times.

Outside of the big three keepers in my lifetime, only Sergio Romero has conssitently (for the number of times he played anyway) put in top performances and a cpoupel of other twos like DeGouw were reliable.

Think people should be careful what they wish for. Its a different game with the no paassing back to the keepers hands and the build up from the back.....but the keepers main job is still to defend his goal and not sure the perfect alternative to do that is available at the moment

 

[Woziak]

Gawd that is so unrealistic. Keep dreaming.

Your missing the point this is the Glazier Bluff Line to get the Qataris to raise the bid that’s not dreamland that’s the reality we currently live in !

 

[Woziak]

Gawd that is so unrealistic. Keep dreaming.

We’ll under Glaziers there will be £50m bet spend so a lot of United fans will keep dreaming pal !

 

[RVN1991]

What's Claudio bravo up to these days???

 

[Borys]

I completely agree. I know the game has moved on, but the obession with ball playing goalkeepers personally from seeing some of the names mentioned, seems very much at the expense of the ability to keep the ball out of the net.

You should not be worried about that since there is no correlation between those parameters. I'm sure we will be looking for a goalkeeper that is at least as good shot stopper as De Gea, and at the same time good on the ball. Evidence in this and somw other threads suggests that is very doable task.

There is always a risk new GK will not be able to perform under pressure of playing for United, but we can't continue with De Gea forever.

 

[RoyKeaneReborn]

I completely agree. I know the game has moved on, but the obession with ball playing goalkeepers personally from seeing some of the names mentioned, seems very much at the expense of the ability to keep the ball out of the net.

Barely seen some of the foreign names mentioned, but the ones already in our league for me are really not ready to be the number one keeper with the pressure that brings here.

Supported the club 40years and in all that time we have only had three top keepers who have been able to consistently handle that pressure and DeGea is one of them. He had a really poor couple of seasons but he has been here over a decade and half of those seasons has arguably been our best player, deserves far more respect than he gets on here.

I think of the likes of Leighton, Turner, Bosnich, Barthez, Foster, Howard and Henderson. Tjhers some very talented keepers amongst those and not one of them was able to handle the pressure of being the number one here, Foster pretty much has admitted it several times.

Outside of the big three keepers in my lifetime, only Sergio Romero has conssitently (for the number of times he played anyway) put in top performances and a cpoupel of other twos like DeGouw were reliable.

Think people should be careful what they wish for. Its a different game with the no paassing back to the keepers hands and the build up from the back.....but the keepers main job is still to defend his goal and not sure the perfect alternative to do that is available at the moment

Respectfully agree, mate. Supported the club for 30 years. Just wanted to weigh in on 2 pts:

1) I recall Barthez wasn't really short of confidence or being unable to handle the pressure of being our Number 1. He was, after all, instrumental in the 1998 World Cup and Euro 2000 wins with France & experienced even in the Champions League with Marseille & Monaco (both clubs doing decently well back then in the CL). But the point stands that he was just very eccentric and liked to dribble & ball-play a bit too much, causing a no of stupid errors. If memory serves me right, Fergie lost patience with him on this after a while precisely of this trait. Haha..

2) I think what Dave lacks behind Schmikes & VDS is really the commanding presence around the box and in collecting crosses. The latter 2 did it so often in their prime and launched rapid counter attacks (goodness me their throws, esp Schmikes) once they collected the ball. I rank this trait higher than being able to ball-play & pass out.

Cheers!

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Offside but just another great reaction moment.

 

[jesperjaap]

Respectfully agree, mate. Supported the club for 30 years. Just wanted to weigh in on 2 pts:

1) I recall Barthez wasn't really short of confidence or being unable to handle the pressure of being our Number 1. He was, after all, instrumental in the 1998 World Cup and Euro 2000 wins with France & experienced even in the Champions League with Marseille & Monaco (both clubs doing decently well back then in the CL). But the point stands that he was just very eccentric and liked to dribble & ball-play a bit too much, causing a no of stupid errors. If memory serves me right, Fergie lost patience with him on this after a while precisely of this trait. Haha..

2) I think what Dave lacks behind Schmikes & VDS is really the commanding presence around the box and in collecting crosses. The latter 2 did it so often in their prime and launched rapid counter attacks (goodness me their throws, esp Schmikes) once they collected the ball. I rank this trait higher than being able to ball-play & pass out.

Cheers!

Yes I agree on Barthez and the second point. Schmeiechel for me is still the most commanding keeper of his box I have ever seen, thats why he is my favourite keeper probably of all time and in those days with the pass back rule, his launchign the ball out was akin to an Edison 60yard pass. As for VDS, even at Ajax, he was way ahead of his time as around then he was the first keeper I really remember usign there feet so much, maybe that was part of the Van Gaal possesion game, but he would be the perfect keeper now in the modern game. And I still dont see that kind of keeper avaialable to us at the moment, just promising ones that are great with there feet but not yet to me anyway at making saves

 

[jesperjaap]

You should not be worried about that since there is no correlation between those parameters. I'm sure we will be looking for a goalkeeper that is at least as good shot stopper as De Gea, and at the same time good on the ball. Evidence in this and somw other threads suggests that is very doable task.

There is always a risk new GK will not be able to perform under pressure of playing for United, but we can't continue with De Gea forever.

Well as I mentioned, there are a lot of foreign keepers I have not seen, so yes there are probably a few out there. COmmenting more on a couple we have been linked with and people keep mentioning in our league that should be signed. I am sure the stat addicts will probably argue the point, but none of them from what I have seen look to be an improvement on DeGea in making saves, levels below in fact.

The one keeper I have seen that looks good enough is the young Belgium keeper and I have forgotten his name....but he is already movign to Leipzig.

But I still feel , DeGea doesnt get near the respect he should from our fans. You yourself write "I'm sure we will be looking for a goalkeeper that is at least as good shot stopper as De Gea, and at the same time good on the ball. Evidence in this and somw other threads suggests that is very doable task.".....as if it wont be difficult, again he is one of the best three keepers in my lifetime at the club and has been one of the worlds best keepers in my eyes bar a couple of seasons during his career here, just doesnt get the credit he deserves for his performances here as a whole, not during the last 4/5 seasons anyway in which admittedly a couple of them were very poor

 

[marktan]

Brighton's keeper is very good. Excellent shot stopper and very good with his feet.

 

[NLunited]

How about we give Maguire some gloves? He has a decent long pass.

 

[mav_9me]

I can't imagine ETH not switching GKs but summer will tell us who is right in the debate.

 

[NLunited]

I can't imagine ETH not switching GKs but summer will tell us who is right in the debate.

There is also the financial side: David‘s wages are insane. It will not purely be a decision based on skills.

 

[Borys]

Well as I mentioned, there are a lot of foreign keepers I have not seen, so yes there are probably a few out there. COmmenting more on a couple we have been linked with and people keep mentioning in our league that should be signed. I am sure the stat addicts will probably argue the point, but none of them from what I have seen look to be an improvement on DeGea in making saves, levels below in fact.

On the bolded part, it is a strong statement that other goalkeepers we're linked with are "levels below" De Gea in making saves, but you must be watching much more football than I am these days. I only watch some highlights and a lot of keepers in this league look really good, at least on De Gea level in that regard. The stats back this up. But Dave is in really good form right now, right in the top5 in the league if he remains consistent so no issue here.

But I still feel , DeGea doesnt get near the respect he should from our fans. You yourself write "I'm sure we will be looking for a goalkeeper that is at least as good shot stopper as De Gea, and at the same time good on the ball. Evidence in this and somw other threads suggests that is very doable task.".....as if it wont be difficult, again he is one of the best three keepers in my lifetime at the club and has been one of the worlds best keepers in my eyes bar a couple of seasons during his career here, just doesnt get the credit he deserves for his performances here as a whole, not during the last 4/5 seasons anyway in which admittedly a couple of them were very poor

I really don't think anyone would argue that he is not United legend. It's just not a reason to stick with him since he's just not great compared to how younger/new goalkeepers play these days. And it's fair to assume we are moving into that "modern" direction under Ten Hag.

Take yesterday final vs Newcastle as an example. Our defense limited them to 2 shots on target, one from very tight angle, one unintended lob. You expect any keeper to keep that out. In those circumstances. We were sitting very deep, pulling Newcastle in (who were pressing very high). In that scenatio good ball-playing goalkeeper can play a very important role to start an attack. IMO we will see that hapenning more and more often as we as a team gel together in a solid defensive unit. Shotstopping ability is still the most important ability for a keeper, but being good at passing the ball, catching crosses, sweeping etc will play bigger role. For that we need a new keeper.

 

[themanguydude]

Name a better shot stopper in world football?

I'd do better and name 20. Click on the link, look under Top 20 for shot stopping and Non shot stopping score.

Take your pick, and no, you don't have to waste time looking for De Gea, he's not on that list.

 

[AneRu]

I completely agree. I know the game has moved on, but the obession with ball playing goalkeepers personally from seeing some of the names mentioned, seems very much at the expense of the ability to keep the ball out of the net.

Barely seen some of the foreign names mentioned, but the ones already in our league for me are really not ready to be the number one keeper with the pressure that brings here.

Supported the club 40years and in all that time we have only had three top keepers who have been able to consistently handle that pressure and DeGea is one of them. He had a really poor couple of seasons but he has been here over a decade and half of those seasons has arguably been our best player, deserves far more respect than he gets on here.

I think of the likes of Leighton, Turner, Bosnich, Barthez, Foster, Howard and Henderson. Tjhers some very talented keepers amongst those and not one of them was able to handle the pressure of being the number one here, Foster pretty much has admitted it several times.

Outside of the big three keepers in my lifetime, only Sergio Romero has conssitently (for the number of times he played anyway) put in top performances and a cpoupel of other twos like DeGouw were reliable.

Think people should be careful what they wish for. Its a different game with the no paassing back to the keepers hands and the build up from the back.....but the keepers main job is still to defend his goal and not sure the perfect alternative to do that is available at the moment

Ditto this. People forget the required mental strength of a Manchester United goalkeeper, despite all the fancy kicking a fragile player will break under the scrutiny a United goalkeeper is subjected to. Remember DDG's first season when he had a perceived weakness against long shots? Opponents and the media tried to break him but he came out tops.

People should be careful what they wish for.

 

[jesperjaap]

On the bolded part, it is a strong statement that other goalkeepers we're linked with are "levels below" De Gea in making saves, but you must be watching much more football than I am these days. I only watch some highlights and a lot of keepers in this league look really good, at least on De Gea level in that regard. The stats back this up. But Dave is in really good form right now, right in the top5 in the league if he remains consistent so no issue here.


I really don't think anyone would argue that he is not United legend. It's just not a reason to stick with him since he's just not great compared to how younger/new goalkeepers play these days. And it's fair to assume we are moving into that "modern" direction under Ten Hag.

Take yesterday final vs Newcastle as an example. Our defense limited them to 2 shots on target, one from very tight angle, one unintended lob. You expect any keeper to keep that out. In those circumstances. We were sitting very deep, pulling Newcastle in (who were pressing very high). In that scenatio good ball-playing goalkeeper can play a very important role to start an attack. IMO we will see that hapenning more and more often as we as a team gel together in a solid defensive unit. Shotstopping ability is still the most important ability for a keeper, but being good at passing the ball, catching crosses, sweeping etc will play bigger role. For that we need a new keeper.

Well he is what 31, thats hardly old for a keeper, he could well have 4/5 top seasons ahead of him.

Go pack to my point as I dont disagree with a lot of what you are saying. All I feel is I am not seeing a keeper at the moment with the names I see linked that I would be really confident can come in and be a better keeper than DeGea. Of course it would be a good thing if we had a keeper distributing the ball better and bringing more fluidity from the back and there are many keepers that would do this.

I havent seen a huge amount of many foreign keepers, so my opinion is slightly blinkered as its mainly on premiership keepers as there are two or three linked, but none of them look ready to me. People have rightly raved about Edilson and Alisson the last few seasons.....but Alisson especially is a very good keeper one on one and makign saves, not just on he ball.

Saves win you points, passing the ball from the back doesnt win many.

Like I said, I agree a lot with what you are saying, I would love us to sign a top keeper between the sticks that is also excellent with the ball at his feet, we havent had that since Vad der SAr, but I am not sure I see more than a huge gamble at the moment with other keepres, DeGea despite some huge ricks occasionally now and again is reliable and also seems very popular in the dressing room and I still prefer him to the names I am hearing that I know at all, thts just opinion of course

 

[jesperjaap]

If you're being ironic, there are numerous analysis done comparing him other GKs across Europe. This one a few pages back for example.

DDG is literally elite at nothing. Nostalgia of the 17/18 season won't change that.

Even if we want just a pure shot stopping keeper (which we wouldn't), we can still do much better than DDG.


https://www.redcafe.net/threads/who...at-are-attainable.475285/page-4#post-30057162

Not sure if you are stating this or not, but do you think DeGea has had one top quality season or that he has gone downhill since that season?

As for that list of keepers in the link. I cant confess to knowing that many of them but you did say in a later post pick any of them when soembod challenged you to name better keepers.

Would you release DeGea and sign any of Martinez, Raya, Pope, Mesiler Leno or Bazunu? They are the keepers I know and they are all decent keepers, and this is just my opinion based not at all on stats, but none of them are elite keepers currently, most of them are not number one in there own country, a couple fo them are actually dreadful with there feet, a couple of them have been released by other clubs as had better options.

Personally wouldnt be confident in any of them being our number one keeper currently even though they are all good keepers

 

[JB7]

Saves win you points, passing the ball from the back doesnt win many.

Depends how you look at it. If you've got a goalkeeper who is effective in possession and makes themselves available as a passing option when defenders are under pressure, you can avoid situations where you lose the ball in your defensive areas and retain possession. If you retain the ball you don't concede. For example at Crystal Palace when De Gea aimlessly hoofed the ball forward late on under next to no pressure when there was a simple 10 yard pass to Martinez on, it gave possession back to them and within a few seconds they'd won the free kick they scored from; it gave up the control of the ball and our players felt the onus was on them to win the ball back hence making the foul. Preventing opportunities is of much greater significance and that is the area De Gea has had the greatest failings in over his career.

I place the importance of a ball playing goalkeeper below most, as generally speaking even the more average goalkeepers tend to be good enough to get by on the ball nowadays, my issues with De Gea relate far more to his refusal to be involved in the prevention of chances and not supporting his team when they're under pressure - which over the past few weeks he's been improving upon and I'm glad to see it. Though it's clearly of importance to Ten Hag, as we've seen by the importance he puts on playing out from the back and how De Gea is clearly training with the team a lot more than in previous years as there is a proper relationship and understanding forming. I do think Ten Hag will want better than De Gea going forward, it'll be an interesting summer.

Would you release DeGea and sign any of Martinez, Raya, Pope, Mesiler Leno or Bazunu? They are the keepers I know and they are all decent keepers, and this is just my opinion based not at all on stats, but none of them are elite keepers currently, most of them are not number one in there own country, a couple fo them are actually dreadful with there feet, a couple of them have been released by other clubs as had better options.

Realistically speaking I'd certainly take Raya and Pope ahead of De Gea. I doubt Ten Hag would take Pope though, as while he does sweep incredibly well and enable his teams to play high lines, he's no better than De Gea with the ball at his feet and I think it's clear that is important for Ten Hag. Meslier will be up there one day but I'm not sold yet. Bazunu is having a dreadful season for Southampton. Raya is the one to watch I think, with a year left on his deal he should be available for no more than we'll get from selling Henderson, so he'd be a no brainer for me if we want a goalkeeper with PL experience alongside De Gea (I think it's pretty clear we are going to give him a new deal on massively reduced terms).

 

[Borys]

Well he is what 31, thats hardly old for a keeper, he could well have 4/5 top seasons ahead of him.

Go pack to my point as I dont disagree with a lot of what you are saying. All I feel is I am not seeing a keeper at the moment with the names I see linked that I would be really confident can come in and be a better keeper than DeGea. Of course it would be a good thing if we had a keeper distributing the ball better and bringing more fluidity from the back and there are many keepers that would do this.

I havent seen a huge amount of many foreign keepers, so my opinion is slightly blinkered as its mainly on premiership keepers as there are two or three linked, but none of them look ready to me. People have rightly raved about Edilson and Alisson the last few seasons.....but Alisson especially is a very good keeper one on one and makign saves, not just on he ball.

Saves win you points, passing the ball from the back doesnt win many.

Like I said, I agree a lot with what you are saying, I would love us to sign a top keeper between the sticks that is also excellent with the ball at his feet, we havent had that since Vad der SAr, but I am not sure I see more than a huge gamble at the moment with other keepres, DeGea despite some huge ricks occasionally now and again is reliable and also seems very popular in the dressing room and I still prefer him to the names I am hearing that I know at all, thts just opinion of course

There is a few good all round goslkeepers in EPL and within our reach. Goalkeepers who seem to be on the level of De Gea in terms of making saves, and clearly ahead of him in other areas of the game.
But it's always a risk. It will be a risk whenever we decide to get a new goalkeeper. But staying with De Gea and hoping he has a good season (not certain at all, he was up and down recently), also when we as a team are progressing as a team is also a risk.

 

[themanguydude]

Not sure if you are stating this or not, but do you think DeGea has had one top quality season or that he has gone downhill since that season?

As for that list of keepers in the link. I cant confess to knowing that many of them but you did say in a later post pick any of them when soembod challenged you to name better keepers.

De Gea has had one top quality season; 17/18 and has gone downhill since then. This was backed by both eye test and stats. I think he had something ridiculous like +12 PSxg-GA (as a comparison Allison now has 9.3) that season and that has been declining significantly since then. He averages around -1 to 3 since that season.

Would you release DeGea and sign any of Martinez, Raya, Pope, Mesiler Leno or Bazunu? They are the keepers I know and they are all decent keepers, and this is just my opinion based not at all on stats, but none of them are elite keepers currently, most of them are not number one in there own country, a couple fo them are actually dreadful with there feet, a couple of them have been released by other clubs as had better options.

Personally wouldnt be confident in any of them being our number one keeper currently even though they are all good keepers

Martinez = Unsure, except for his exceptional penalities ability, he's pretty average to bad in other aspects

Raya = Without shadow of a doubt, superior in basically every aspect to De Gea

Pope = Yes but won't be ideal, slight upgrade

Mesiler = Don't know much, can't comment

Leno = Don't know much, can't comment

Bazunu = Don't know much, can't comment

Hypothetical question, if De Gea wasn't already our keeper, will we go out to get him? Would Ten Hag choose him as our ideal ball playing keeper for next season? If the reason to keep him is because he's already here, then that's a classic example of sunk cost fallacy

 

[cybertej29]

Is De Gea that bad on the ball anymore? Feel like he's improved a lot under ETG, he's being used a lot more in build up play. Also his long distribution is pretty solid.

 

[simonhch]

De Gea has had one top quality season; 17/18 and has gone downhill since then. This was backed by both eye test and stats. I think he had something ridiculous like +12 PSxg-GA (as a comparison Allison now has 9.3) that season and that has been declining significantly since then. He averages around -1 to 3 since that season.



Martinez = Unsure, except for his exceptional penalities ability, he's pretty average to bad in other aspects

Raya = Without shadow of a doubt, superior in basically every aspect to De Gea

Pope = Yes but won't be ideal, slight upgrade

Mesiler = Don't know much, can't comment

Leno = Don't know much, can't comment

Bazunu = Don't know much, can't comment

Hypothetical question, if De Gea wasn't already our keeper, will we go out to get him? Would Ten Hag choose him as our ideal ball playing keeper for next season? If the reason to keep him is because he's already here, then that's a classic example of sunk cost fallacy

But there’s also opportunity cost. If spending 50m+ on a replacement means we can’t get much needed midfield or striker reinforcement, then it is suddenly much more relevant to factor in keeping him because he is here. There is also the intangible factor of a player’s ability to cope with the pressure of being the starting keeper at the biggest club in the land. Expectations are much higher and focus on mistakes is magnified ten fold. De Gea has that down. He bounces back from mistakes. And while I don’t think that a reason to not replace him, it does make the job of replacing him fraught with very difficult to mitigate risk. Raya for example, might perform very well for Brentford, but playing for Manchester United is a different ball game. Can’t just do the eye test, look at the stats and say he’d be an upgrade. We don’t know. The keeper position is a position of unique stress and mental strength.

With that in mind, I think releasing De Gea - looking at the replacement options - would be daft. I would keep him and bring in someone like Raya, who wouldn’t be expensive and wouldn’t have a high opportunity cost - and have him compete for the number one spot with DDG. If he makes it his own, you can release DDG next season. If he doesn’t, you have to keep looking, but retain a very serviceable option between the sticks. Which while not perfect, does work and work well.

 

[sparx99]

De Gea has had one top quality season; 17/18 and has gone downhill since then. This was backed by both eye test and stats. I think he had something ridiculous like +12 PSxg-GA (as a comparison Allison now has 9.3) that season and that has been declining significantly since then. He averages around -1 to 3 since that season.



Martinez = Unsure, except for his exceptional penalities ability, he's pretty average to bad in other aspects

Raya = Without shadow of a doubt, superior in basically every aspect to De Gea

Pope = Yes but won't be ideal, slight upgrade

Mesiler = Don't know much, can't comment

Leno = Don't know much, can't comment

Bazunu = Don't know much, can't comment

Hypothetical question, if De Gea wasn't already our keeper, will we go out to get him? Would Ten Hag choose him as our ideal ball playing keeper for next season? If the reason to keep him is because he's already here, then that's a classic example of sunk cost fallacy

Remarkably confident about Raya. There is such a difference playing for Brentford over us. Are you really watching him 90mins every week with the same critical eye as you’d watch De Gea? Do Brentford not hit long balls to Toney?

When he makes a mistake you wouldn’t feel the gut punch that we get when De Gea does.

 

[themanguydude]

But there’s also opportunity cost. If spending 50m+ on a replacement means we can’t get much needed midfield or striker reinforcement, then it is suddenly much more relevant to factor in keeping him because he is here.

I feel GK is the most urgent position we need an upgrade on. The marginal improvement of getting an elite ball playing keeper overshadows whatever improvement we can get from a new midfield or striker. We can make do with Rashford CF, we can make do with Eriksen partnering Casemiro.

We are not and we can not play anything close to Ten Hag's ideal system (possession dominating, building from the back) until the GK has been upgraded.

There is also the intangible factor of a player’s ability to cope with the pressure of being the starting keeper at the biggest club in the land. Expectations are much higher and focus on mistakes is magnified ten fold. De Gea has that down. He bounces back from mistakes.

I'm not questioning his mentality. I'm questioning his ability.

And while I don’t think that a reason to not replace him, it does make the job of replacing him fraught with very difficult to mitigate risk. Raya for example, might perform very well for Brentford, but playing for Manchester United is a different ball game. Can’t just do the eye test, look at the stats and say he’d be an upgrade. We don’t know. The keeper position is a position of unique stress and mental strength.

You can apply that to basically any new signings

Kane for example, might perform very well for Spurs, but playing for Manchester United is a different ball game

Toney for example, might perform very well for Brentford, but playing for Manchester United is a different ball game

Osimhen for example, might perform very well for Napoli, but playing for Manchester United is a different ball game

With that in mind, I think releasing De Gea - looking at the replacement options - would be daft. I would keep him and bring in someone like Raya, who wouldn’t be expensive and wouldn’t have a high opportunity cost - and have him compete for the number one spot with DDG. If he makes it his own, you can release DDG next season. If he doesn’t, you have to keep looking, but retain a very serviceable option between the sticks. Which while not perfect, does work and work well.

Sign a 375k/w extension as a fallback plan?

I don't think you understand my stance at all, De Gea is one of the worse keepers in the league right now. In almost any metric except shot stopping you rank him in he is one of the lowest, and even in shot stopping he is unremarkbly average.

We're not talking about making a jump from a top 5 keeper and replacing him with a top 3 and hoping he works out. We're talking about replacing a keeper in the bottom 5 ranking. We can easily do much better.

 

[Borys]

But there’s also opportunity cost. If spending 50m+ on a replacement means we can’t get much needed midfield or striker reinforcement, then it is suddenly much more relevant to factor in keeping him because he is here. There is also the intangible factor of a player’s ability to cope with the pressure of being the starting keeper at the biggest club in the land. Expectations are much higher and focus on mistakes is magnified ten fold. De Gea has that down. He bounces back from mistakes. And while I don’t think that a reason to not replace him, it does make the job of replacing him fraught with very difficult to mitigate risk. Raya for example, might perform very well for Brentford, but playing for Manchester United is a different ball game. Can’t just do the eye test, look at the stats and say he’d be an upgrade. We don’t know. The keeper position is a position of unique stress and mental strength.

With that in mind, I think releasing De Gea - looking at the replacement options - would be daft. I would keep him and bring in someone like Raya, who wouldn’t be expensive and wouldn’t have a high opportunity cost - and have him compete for the number one spot with DDG. If he makes it his own, you can release DDG next season. If he doesn’t, you have to keep looking, but retain a very serviceable option between the sticks. Which while not perfect, does work and work well.

Raya looks awesome on stats, a major upgrade on De Gea in every department. Whether that can be translated to playing for United I don't know, but he's not some kind of a young goalkeeper.
There's also a chance he will improve under Ten Hag (if Dave improved, why wouldn't any new gk improve?).

I would love De Gea to stay in gk-backup role but also with a backup-player salary. As you said, money is an issue so we might end up not replacing De Gea in the end this summer.

 

[jackal&hyde]

I completely agree. I know the game has moved on, but the obession with ball playing goalkeepers personally from seeing some of the names mentioned, seems very much at the expense of the ability to keep the ball out of the net.

Barely seen some of the foreign names mentioned, but the ones already in our league for me are really not ready to be the number one keeper with the pressure that brings here.

Supported the club 40years and in all that time we have only had three top keepers who have been able to consistently handle that pressure and DeGea is one of them. He had a really poor couple of seasons but he has been here over a decade and half of those seasons has arguably been our best player, deserves far more respect than he gets on here.

I think of the likes of Leighton, Turner, Bosnich, Barthez, Foster, Howard and Henderson. Tjhers some very talented keepers amongst those and not one of them was able to handle the pressure of being the number one here, Foster pretty much has admitted it several times.

Outside of the big three keepers in my lifetime, only Sergio Romero has conssitently (for the number of times he played anyway) put in top performances and a cpoupel of other twos like DeGouw were reliable.

Think people should be careful what they wish for. Its a different game with the no paassing back to the keepers hands and the build up from the back.....but the keepers main job is still to defend his goal and not sure the perfect alternative to do that is available at the moment

Yes that's exactly where I'm coming from in terms of the GK. I've been so frustrated with the level of poor GK over the years that I understand that the pressure to be a United GK is far different from other clubs. So many good ones failed horribly that having one capable of dealing with the focus of being in goal for us is something that I think a lot of fans either forget or just do not know. Just look at how many super talented players failed for us in the last 10 years and it's 2 times worse for GKs.

In the stats obsessed environment that the media has created I think a lot of fans forget that it takes a lot more to be productive for a club like United then others. If anyone thinks that it's frustrating to see midfielders or strikers doing a mediocre job for us over the last years, then know it's 10 times worse when it comes to GKs.

 

[OleGunnar20]

I've been very critical of DDG these last years as he's cost us with huge mistakes time and again. However, looking at this upturn in form with a functioning defence in front of him it seems cruel to throw him out as we FINALLY look to be turning a corner, after (is it that long !?) 12 long seasons of mediocrity for the guy.

If he signs on a lower contract and ETH thinks he's up to it I'd quite like to see him given at least another season or two to bag some real silverware for us. He's dedicated his career to this club during a bad time and fax machine aside, has seemed loyal overall.

He might not be perfect but I think he's good enough to win the big prizes with us.

 

[Bebestation]

Has there been any new names for a potential goalkeeper?

Who is the best 5 we could target?

 

[Skills]

Has there been any new names for a potential goalkeeper?

Who is the best 5 we could target?

Raya - cheap/realistic option
Maignon - expensive/best option on the market

 

[Westerkerk]

If we aren't going to stick with De Gea, which I think we should, we should go all in for Mike Maignon. From what I've seen in Serie A he is a quality keeper. Not sure about his "ball playing" skills, but these "ball playing" GKs are prone to errors too so it really is swings and roundabouts.

 

[Adebisi's Hat]

i have always been very pro DDG but on watching this video and the comments from Jacob Murphy make for an interesting take on the DDG buildup play conundrum. I dont see this posted on the Rio thread but it seems more relevant here.

 

[Gordon S]

Definitely not. Talented but his season so far has shown he has a lot of developing to do. And when I say a lot I mean a lot.

Nice to see Brice Samba in there, really caught my eye when i was watching Garner at Forest. Looks like a fun character at least! Was honestly surprised they let him go to Lens.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Brighton's keeper is very good. Excellent shot stopper and very good with his feet.

benched now

 

[GwilDor]

I’m quite curious as to what we’re offering DDG in his new contract. My position is this:

- What could he get somewhere else:
Surely nowhere close to what he is on at the moment. Which is also our competing level. For him to change clubs is not just a «risk» for us, it is also a risk for him. I’d offer him somewhere under half of what he is on now, say 160k/pw. That would free up around 11mill from our yearly wage budget, practically financing wages for a second keeper, and parts of the transfer fee.

- Length of contract offer?
I’d also make it a relatively short contract, allowing DDG the chance to impress in a competition with a new keeper, and as such be in a good position to renegotiate the reduced contract next year or the year after, whilst giving the club a way out should he turn out to be an expensive #2.

I’m just hoping we’re not giving him a new expensive contract with no way out, cause whilst he may return to his shotstoppig self of the past, i don’t see him developing the qualities required for the team to keep developing.

 

[Harry190]

Mike Maignan.

 

[croadyman]

Mike Maignan.

Yeah that's the one I keep coming back to as well,however we seem more interested in Costa/Raya (see him tomorrow night)

 

[Bebestation]

Yeah that's the one I keep coming back to as well,however we seem more interested in Costa/Raya (see him tomorrow night)

Is Costa any good?

 

[croadyman]

Is Costa any good?

Well whenever I think of him that mistake in World Cup for Portugal springs to mind

 

[JB7]

Raya - cheap/realistic option
Maignon - expensive/best option on the market

This is the correct answer to the question btw.